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Irish Derby - Saturday 27th June

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    #62
    Andrew00
    Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Andrew00


    Lads another thing that annoys the f*ck out of me is

    People calling Mark Prescott a genius for his handicap plots despite the fact its pure cheating.

    He runs his horses over 6f for a few races then ups it to 1m6f and backs it off the boards idc what anyone says


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    #63
    tryfix
    Registered Users Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    gazza1 wrote: »
    Don't see Dawn Patrol in the Ledger betting. Finished like a train to take 3rd and surely the extra 2f would be right up his street.

    Not bad for a maiden with just 2 previous runs. He's a half brother to the Derby winner Pour Moi so hopefully there's more to come. The thing is though that on his previous run he was the meat between the sandwich when he and Order Of Australia were 2nd and 3rd beaten 1/2L and 1 1/2L ( 2L) behind Tiger Moth. Today both Tiger Moth and Order Of Australia improved more than Dawn Patrol did and Order Of Australia might be better back at 10f.

    Today was the B team's turn. The A? team are heading for Epsom.

    Kudos to Seamie for the ride on the winner. There's no need for Ryan Moore at Ballydoyle.


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    #64
    Kauto
    Registered Users Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Kauto


    Mysterypunter wrote: »
    25% of horses racing in Ireland should be suspended if that is the standard. Crooked game anyway, why do people get upset, Weld over here and Mark Johnson in the UK two of the worst.

    That was as blatant as it gets. Delighted for Hogan and connections. Hopefully get him a few more times before the end of the season.
    Johnson not a good example. Trains by numbers and hasn't a rashers. If his horses set decent fractions and are left alone they win. If not they are tailed off.


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    #65
    Mysterypunter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Mysterypunter


    Kauto wrote: »
    That was as blatant as it gets. Delighted for Hogan and connections. Hopefully get him a few more times before the end of the season.
    Johnson not a good example. Trains by numbers and hasn't a rashers. If his horses set decent fractions and are left alone they win. If not they are tailed off.
    I agree, but I think they are doped up to the eyeballs, he used to be a vet, he would know enough about medication. Also a hungry man, doesn't want to pay stable staff


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    #66
    Kauto
    Registered Users Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Kauto


    Mysterypunter wrote: »
    I agree, but I think they are doped up to the eyeballs, he used to be a vet, he would know enough about medication. Also a hungry man, doesn't want to pay stable staff

    There are any amount of trainers you can add to the list. John Gosdens horses would run through walls!!

    Its the small trainers who cant afford the juice that suffer. An expensive extra.


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    #67
    tryfix
    Registered Users Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    Kauto wrote: »
    There are any amount of trainers you can add to the list. John Gosdens horses would run through walls!!

    Its the small trainers who cant afford the juice that suffer. An expensive extra.


    It's a funny old game. Some small trainers can have an odd superstar in their stables and that horse can regularly beat all the mega stables with their technology and tonics. I find that head scratching, it makes you wonder about the talk of genius and dodgy trainers. One look at the States dispels any notion that the drugs don't work because they certainly do.

    On Gosden. What strikes me about his horses is the condition they are him. They are superbly strong looking as if they have been fed a better diet than other horses.


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    #68
    Kauto
    Registered Users Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Kauto


    tryfix wrote: »
    It's a funny old game. Some small trainers can have an odd superstar in their stables and that horse can regularly beat all the mega stables with their technology and tonics. I find that head scratching, it makes you wonder about the talk of genius and dodgy trainers. One look at the States dispels any notion that the drugs don't work because they certainly do.

    On Gosden. What strikes me about his horses is the condition they are him. They are superbly strong looking as if they have been fed a better diet than other horses.

    The drugs will only give you so much improvement. You need to have the raw materials to start with. I know 2 very small trainers(who had other sources of income) who would have had a good strike rate with very few runners and both jacked it in. They drugged their horses in their last year in order to compete but conscience got the better of both.
    Both said it neigh on impossible to compete without it.


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    #69
    Dayjur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭Dayjur


    Ahh the annual doping bile from the geniuses who know a lad who knows a lad


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    #70
    essgee268
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭essgee268


    TheTorment wrote: »
    Is it just my tv or can anyone else hear a strange whistling noise on RTE?

    Is that the wind through the new stand?


    Could be Radio Luxemborg


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    #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That Hogan horse that finished fourth - was looking at the racecard and for all intents and purposes the race was a handicap, although listed as "Apprentice Derby". Could find no mention of 'handicap' in the race description though; not that it matters as cheating went on, but from a punter's perspective they would have still collected on each way as there were 18 runners - if the race was a handicap... I couldn't see any mention of race type at all, be that listed, group, stakes etc

    Another annoying thing is the lack of an up to date going description... It's all guesswork pretty much... Declaration stage could be good to firm, but it's not unusual here and across the pond for that to change to good to soft - soft in places in that two day period. So when the weather's like this, for a normal run of the mill meeting one has to resort to looking at non runners and the likes to try and discern underfoot conditions. The trainers I presume can easily find out just by ringing the course. So why not punters?

    Granted the going can change during, and often because of racing, but how hard can it be for the clerk to walk the course at 6 or so in the morning and ring it in to be published at say 7.... or maybe they do :confused:
    And that's if you're planning on having a bet on the day of the race... Should be going updates every 12hrs imo and a local weather forecast as well.


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    #72
    I says
    Registered Users Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭I says


    I’ve been involved in horses or dogs most of my adult life and there will always be allegations against trainers. Some true others false.
    Even after this weekend people will still send horses to that trainer everybody wants to win.
    A certain dog trainer was caught using viagra on the dogs years ago. It’s like the cycling.
    Don’t spit in the soup.


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    #73
    byronbay2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭byronbay2


    Kauto wrote: »
    The drugs will only give you so much improvement. You need to have the raw materials to start with. I know 2 very small trainers(who had other sources of income) who would have had a good strike rate with very few runners and both jacked it in. They drugged their horses in their last year in order to compete but conscience got the better of both.
    Both said it neigh on impossible to compete without it.

    I see what you did there!


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    #74
    Randy Archer
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    Andrew00 wrote: »
    Lads another thing that annoys the f*ck out of me is

    People calling Mark Prescott a genius for his handicap plots despite the fact its pure cheating.

    He runs his horses over 6f for a few races then ups it to 1m6f and backs it off the boards idc what anyone says

    Henry Cecil is on record about handicaps “tickets for cheating”

    Add Mark “always trying” Johnson . Whinging about not getting Group 1 class horses, yet, when he got the odd one he flogged them . 4 races in the same season of a Derby ? Christ on a stick, add French and Irish Derby in quick succession and pack him off to America for a nothing Group 1 in a place Mark has no experience of


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