End of #metoo

p1akuw47h5r3it · 06-12-2018 11:50pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

Thanks for the advice DanDan to just suck it up but see I continue to think if metoo brings an awareness that people are entitled not to be subjected to creepy behaviour at work, that would be a good day's work.

That rape victim is entitled to her opinion as is everyone.

The point is it is long past that.

And you don't have to suck it up. If a bloke is staring at your breasts and making you uncomfortable go over and tell him to stop. I feel like considering that sexual harassment undermines everything else.

https://medium.com/@annsterzinger/sisters-from-a-real-rape-victim-to-metoo-5e11cab66a36 Here's the article if you are interested.

Mrsmum · 07-12-2018 12:07am

DanDan6592 wrote: »

The point is it is long past that.

And you don't have to suck it up. If a bloke is staring at your breasts and making you uncomfortable go over and tell him to stop. I feel like considering that sexual harassment undermines everything else.

https://medium.com/@annsterzinger/sisters-from-a-real-rape-victim-to-metoo-5e11cab66a36 Here's the article if you are interested.

Genuinely I don't get it. I mean X speaks about lets say getting a sleazy photo sent to them and Y says she was raped. So for some strange reason that is totally lost on me no-one believes Y purely and solely because X had the cheek not to keep her mouth shut about her experience ? Are people that limited that they can't hear and evaluate different cases.

leggo · 07-12-2018 12:13am

DanDan6592 wrote: »

And this is one of the areas were modern feminism loses me. I'm sorry, but someone staring at you, even your breasts, is a minor inconvenience at worst. Literally get over it. Ye the blokes a creep, whatever. But it gets blown up into this godawful thing, which it isn't, to portray women as these constantly oppressed individuals vis a vis the survey that was produced off the back of staring being considered sexual harassment.

Sorry man, but if that's how you see it, it's clear you're just not having actual conversations with women in your life about this. Like I'm not saying you're wrong or bad, I'm just saying you're kinda showing a fairly basic understanding here and I think if you had honest chats with women you know where they explained it to you you'd feel differently. And most are generally happy enough to share what day-to-day reality is for them in this sense.

For example: I worked with a girl who'd be considered conventionally gorgeous and the hassle I'd see her get from men with my own eyes daily, never mind what she told me a night out was like for her, it amazed me that she left the house tbh. And it's like "yeah yeah whatever it's just a bit of attention" but there's a menace to it too, the problem is you don't know when a situation starts which way it's going to go. Like I remember she left work one night and was shook up the next day because a lad walked up to her pretending to look for directions, then kind of cornered her and said "I want to **** you now." He didn't try assault her or anything, she just walked away, but she didn't know that that was going to be how it played out in the moment. She got that kinda stuff 2-3 times a week and did nothing to invite it except 'be good-looking'. I could probably do the same about most women I know. It's not on tbh.

I don't think anyone is saying people should go to prison for staring, but it should be made clear it's not an appropriate way to act in much the same way it needed to be made clear way back that pinching co-workers arse in the workplace wasn't appropriate. This is all people are looking for like. It's not unreasonable.

Sweetemotion · 07-12-2018 1:02am

leggo wrote: »

Oh yawn, stop resting on such lazy arguments that sound good in your head but don’t actually show any understanding for the situation as it is. Where did I try silence her? I gave her a long arse post respectfully taking her point seriously and explaining where I differ. I said “As a man” in an earlier post not to give myself a false sense of authority (it wouldn’t anyway if I did that, you’d be damn sure it’d get picked on before now, fortunately most understood that), but to indicate that I could see and share a male viewpoint yet still felt a certain way. I’m not a feminist or an anything ‘-ist’, it’s gas I’ve also been accused of hating women on boards too because I’ve defended men on certain issues, because THAT’S how we understand issues in 2018: you’re either one side or the other, no way you just actually give a **** and looked at it from a neutral standpoint before arriving at a fair conclusion! “You have to have an agenda man, because I can’t argue with the logic of your posts so I’m just going to say that and it’ll sound nice and I’ll feel better!”

This isn’t a paternal split or a war, you don’t have to choose ‘sides’, you can feel one way about one issue and another about another if you care to actually look into the issues instead of seeing it as all black and white.

The reality is discourse on this site has gone to the dogs because of this gender wars ****e. Every single topic becomes a gender war, everyone is arguing for their own gender’s benefit and every issue seems to become “Well men/women have it worse!” There was a time here when you’d get a balanced and nuanced view of a subject because people would have shame and take a step back to look at a topic from a balanced POV taking the facts and evidence into account. I guess this is what ‘post-truth’ looks like. Black and white and everyone yelling instead of actually having a reasoned discussion with the common goal of reaching a consensus.

Here look I get it, you've created your own reality that women want to be with you and men want to be you. You're are simply just great. God like even well done you.

But in actually reality you come across as a condisending pompous git with a dark history you're trying very hard to hide.

professore · 07-12-2018 1:10am

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Here look I get it, you've created your own reality that women want to be with you and men want to be you. You're are simply just great. God like even well done you.

But in actually reality you come across as a condisending pompous git with a dark history you're trying very hard to hide.

He's probably a young fella who went to all male schools with no sisters and his only female role model is his mammy who worships him. He actually believes girls are sugar and spice and all things nice. He will learn.

leggo · 07-12-2018 1:14am

This got weird. Whatever makes you feel better lads...

pleas advice · 07-12-2018 3:01am

BBFAN wrote: »

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

We have degrees of murder for god’s sake, why can’t we have degrees here?

We do have degrees though?

degrees in gender studies, wha?

Bigbagofcans · 07-12-2018 10:36am

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I always find male feminists creepy. Especially those who say "as a man" and then go on to tell us how great they are. Who then try to silence women, whose opinions differ from theirs.

God forbid some men want equality for women too :rolleyes:

professore · 07-12-2018 10:50am

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

God forbid some men want equality for women too :rolleyes:

Modern feminism isn't about equality.

Women outnumber men in college in almost every discipline yet all we hear is how "disadvantaged" girls are in a few STEM fields - and its presented as all STEM fields while many are already huge majority female, e.g. Medicine, psychology, biology etc. In non STEM its no contest.

Women in their 20s and 30s outearn men but again it's the "gender pay gap".

Why not ensure everyone has a fair crack of the whip? How is the current message to young men any different than the message young women recieved in the past?

At least young women weren't told on the radio "The future is male"

I'm a middle aged man with daughters so I've no horse in the race. I've seen both types of discrimination. My daughters have every encouragement and opportunity. If I had sons it would be a lot harder for them.

A healthy society is made up of men and women working together equally. This is not the message men are getting.

Gimme A Pound · 07-12-2018 11:17am

professore wrote: »

He actually believes girls are sugar and spice and all things nice. He will learn.

Do you say things like the above to your daughters?

The gender pay gap thing is bollox but I don't believe either that women in their 20s and 30s out-earn men. Seems like a manipulated stat from the other direction. Why would women out-earn men during those years? I'd bet the reality is 50/50.

leggo · 07-12-2018 11:20am

You’re treating it like a war though, like you then need to batten down the hatches and protect everything you’ve got. I’d agree that the field has been levelled up, I understand how women past their 30’s don’t see it that way (because the opportunities and norms that they see are in line with the culture they grew up in) and that progress is a generational thing. Agree with everything you’re saying there, minus the part about it being ‘harder’ for men, it’s not they have the exact same opportunities. We are where we want to be equality wise, yet it will persist until the end product is there. That’s not them looking for ‘more’, that’s them still not seeing proportional representation in the Dail for example, or as many jobs in the media and so on, which will sort itself out in time but until it does expect people to fight for them and see it through.

But because you feel this way, it seems like everything a woman says now your attitude is to get defensive and immediately poo-poo it as if she’s coming to take your land. So it bleeds into your attitude for #MeToo, when the only real objective of that campaign is to make a safer world for your daughters, which I’m sure you can agree on. I look at it through the lens of my sister, similarly, and then it becomes a no-brainer. You know how lads are and have been for years, you know how they look at women and how many lads treat them, why would you rather a few people who you have to know are sleazes got their right to be sleazes protected ahead of your daughters’ wellbeing?

meeeeh · 07-12-2018 11:57am

Adalynn Gray Putter wrote: »

Do you say things like the above to your daughters?

The gender pay gap thing is bollox but I don't believe either that women in their 20s and 30s out-earn men. Seems like a manipulated stat from the other direction. Why would women out-earn men during those years? I'd bet the reality is 50/50.

There is some proof that out of college women out earn men, it all changes for majority of working life. It is also true that women are more successful getting university but they are not great converting it into senior positions at work (including universities or education). I'm all for equal opportunities, it would improve chances of young men but it would also affect the cushy position middle aged men have and that I suspect is what worries professore (it is his age/gender group that is benefiting above everyone in the current arrangement).

py2006 · 07-12-2018 12:37pm

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

God forbid some men want equality for women too :rolleyes:

Most men do. Feminists it does not make them.

Bigbagofcans · 07-12-2018 12:40pm

py2006 wrote: »

Most men do. Feminists it does not make them.

A feminist is someone who believes that women and men should have equal rights and opportunities. So of course most men (well most of the ones I know) are feminists.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-12-2018 12:51pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

Genuinely I don't get it. I mean X speaks about lets say getting a sleazy photo sent to them and Y says she was raped. So for some strange reason that is totally lost on me no-one believes Y purely and solely because X had the cheek not to keep her mouth shut about her experience ? Are people that limited that they can't hear and evaluate different cases.

What? By undermining I meant belittling experiences of those victims of sexual assault and rape, as they all get lumped together under the guise of #metoo. Nothing to do with not believing. Again I draw your attention to the article that was posted earlier, and I reposted.

Why not, when a bloke stares or leers at you, go over and tell him to stop? And I mean that as a genuine question. It's way more likely to have an effect on him then reading stuff on twitter, which he probably won't even read.

You seem a very genuine poster Mrsmum, how often have you been levered at? And was it that big a deal to you?

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-12-2018 1:00pm

leggo wrote: »

Sorry man, but if that's how you see it, it's clear you're just not having actual conversations with women in your life about this. Like I'm not saying you're wrong or bad, I'm just saying you're kinda showing a fairly basic understanding here and I think if you had honest chats with women you know where they explained it to you you'd feel differently. And most are generally happy enough to share what day-to-day reality is for them in this sense.

For example: I worked with a girl who'd be considered conventionally gorgeous and the hassle I'd see her get from men with my own eyes daily, never mind what she told me a night out was like for her, it amazed me that she left the house tbh. And it's like "yeah yeah whatever it's just a bit of attention" but there's a menace to it too, the problem is you don't know when a situation starts which way it's going to go. Like I remember she left work one night and was shook up the next day because a lad walked up to her pretending to look for directions, then kind of cornered her and said "I want to **** you now." He didn't try assault her or anything, she just walked away, but she didn't know that that was going to be how it played out in the moment. She got that kinda stuff 2-3 times a week and did nothing to invite it except 'be good-looking'. I could probably do the same about most women I know. It's not on tbh.

I don't think anyone is saying people should go to prison for staring, but it should be made clear it's not an appropriate way to act in much the same way it needed to be made clear way back that pinching co-workers arse in the workplace wasn't appropriate. This is all people are looking for like. It's not unreasonable.

"it amazed me she left the house". Give me a break mate. Women aren't delicate little creatures that need protecting.

I have talked to female friends about this, I couldn't have adequately informed my opinion had I not. 2 of my friends in particular are like your friend, georgeous. Neither have had an experience of being cornered like your friend, never mind it happening "2-3 times a week". I'm not saying she's lying, but she's not the norm either.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-12-2018 1:03pm

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

God forbid some men want equality for women too :rolleyes:

How can you live in the western world and not believe women are equal! How!

Bigbagofcans · 07-12-2018 1:06pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

How can you live in the western world and not believe women are equal! How!

I detect sarcasm.

leggo · 07-12-2018 1:06pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

"it amazed me she left the house". Give me a break mate. Women aren't delicate little creatures that need protecting.

I have talked to female friends about this, I couldn't have adequately informed my opinion had I not. 2 of my friends in particular are like your friend, georgeous. Neither have had an experience of being cornered like your friend, never mind it happening "2-3 times a week". I'm not saying she's lying, but she's not the norm either.

You’ve two gorgeous women friends who’ve never been intimidated by creeps? Right. Well you’ve put that in writing so let’s leave it up on one of the biggest sites in Ireland and leave it for people to see if they believe that.

Zorya · 07-12-2018 1:15pm

Another odd thing that metoo supporters don't seem to realise is that rape is in actual fact far more of a crime against the young than it is against females per se. Most attackers (rape I mean) are older men and their victims are mostly much younger people or children.

I know this sounds contradictory, because of course it is mostly the female sex who is raped, but if you look at it from a wider demographic perspective rape is a crime against the young.

Yes, more females are raped than males, but a huge percentage of rapes happen to people under the age of 18, 44 % in some stats happen to people under 18, 15% of all rapes are under the age of 12, and thereafter the vast bulk of all rapes - about 80% - happen to people under the age of 30. Girls aged 16 to 19 are four times more likely to be raped than any other member of the population.

Also more than 70% of rapes take place between 6 pm and 6 am, which indicates they are not related, generally, to workplaces. More than two thirds of rape are carried out by an intimate, friend or relative of the victim.

This would lead me to think that a campaign that focuses especially on minor enough incidents of workplace harrassment can never get to the root of actual rape.

Plus I have an idea that the workplace lecher is not a member of the same demographic as the predatory rapist. This is an important distinction also, especially if one's intention is to lower the incidents of violent assault on women. Which we all want.

These are among the contributory factors to my opinion that annoyance or harrassment and violent assault are different issues, and should not be conflated.

We all want sexual annoyance against women to stop, that is completely true.

It is repeatedly asked in this thread WHO conflates rape and groping. The answer is MeToo does. It says so when you google MeToo.

py2006 · 07-12-2018 1:15pm

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

A feminist is someone who believes that women and men should have equal rights and opportunities. So of course most men (well most of the ones I know) are feminists.

Hmm you may want to pass that definition onto some of the loons of today that label their antics and attitudes as feminism.

Bigbagofcans · 07-12-2018 1:18pm

leggo wrote: »

You’ve two gorgeous women friends who’ve never been intimidated by creeps? Right. Well you’ve put that in writing so let’s leave it up on one of the biggest sites in Ireland and leave it for people to see if they believe that.

I've been intimidated and mauled by a lot of my creeps in my life as I'm sure many girls have.

Most girls don't talk about it and try to forget about these humiliating experiences.

This brave lady spoke about her experience:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/verbal-abuse-of-women-in-public-1.2395050

py2006 · 07-12-2018 1:30pm

For a bit of balance.

I as a man have experienced sexism and harassment on varying levels. I've spoken about it before on here. From comments by female colleague on the bulge in my trousers to having my crotch grabbed so hard in a nightclub I had to leave with the pain and having to visit a doctor the next day. I could go on.

From my experience men don't talk about these things or are forced to laugh them off by society because of the gender of the perpetrator.

I'm not saying men suffer as much as women but it's a lot closer to a level playing field than feminists want society to believe.

I know men don't have the fear of rape the way women do (unless they go to an American prison apparently). But labelling all men as potential harassers and rapists is whats becoming the norm nowadays along with looking for every an any opportunity to make an accusation with total disregard for accountability.

B0jangles · 07-12-2018 1:38pm

py2006 wrote: »

For a bit of balance.

I as a man have experienced sexism and harassment on varying levels. I've spoken about it before on here. From comments by female colleague on the bulge in my trousers to having my crotch grabbed so hard in a nightclub I had to leave with the pain and having to visit a doctor the next day. I could go on.

From my experience men don't talk about these things or are forced to laugh them off by society because of the gender of the perpetrator.

I'm not saying men suffer as much as women but it's a lot closer to a level playing field than feminists want society to believe.

I know men don't have the fear of rape the way women do (unless they go to an American prison apparently). But labelling all men as potential harassers and rapists is whats becoming the norm nowadays along with looking for every an any opportunity to make an accusation with total disregard for accountability.

I, a self-described Feminist think that no one, male or female should be expected to accept verbal or physical sexual harassment.

I do not think they should be quiet about it, to just accept it as 'banter' or 'a bit of fun' or any of the other common phrases used to handwave it all away.

For some reason any time women bring up the harassment they experience, they are either told it's no big deal or than men get the same treatment, just like you have done.

If you personally are happy to keep quiet and not complain, that is entirely your choice.

It is not up to you to tell other people to keep quiet just because you chose to.

Mrsmum · 07-12-2018 1:42pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

What? By undermining I meant belittling experiences of those victims of sexual assault and rape, as they all get lumped together under the guise of #metoo. Nothing to do with not believing. Again I draw your attention to the article that was posted earlier, and I reposted.

Why not, when a bloke stares or leers at you, go over and tell him to stop? And I mean that as a genuine question. It's way more likely to have an effect on him then reading stuff on twitter, which he probably won't even read.

You seem a very genuine poster Mrsmum, how often have you been levered at? And was it that big a deal to you?

I don't think you're getting the full picture. You're assuming I go over and stay stop that and job done. But said sleezy guy is not going to say sorry, I'll stop so, he's more likely to puff himself up and say don't flatter yourself, I wasn't looking at you at all, f**k sake,as if. And that assuming we are on the same level, What if I am just in the door or at a low grade and he is a big shot in the company. In a lot of bigger companies you could go to HR or union maybe but the thing is you get a name as a bit hysterical/prude or whatever because you're supposed to be able to deal with it yourself but why should women have to be dealing with this sh*te. A man sore because you slapped him down doesn't make for a happy working environment. And remember there is a lot of workplaces where there's no protection. Person who hands out the best shifts or extra hours using their position against women who need that job. The more vulnerable you are the greater the chance of abuse.

You know in the future when you will have far more female managers, I actually have no doubt men will find themselves more and more on the receiving end of this and so for their sake too, can this nonsense that has no place in the workplace not be outlawed.

As for me, yes I have stories. Nothing serious but annoying stuff.

B0jangles · 07-12-2018 1:48pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

What? By undermining I meant belittling experiences of those victims of sexual assault and rape, as they all get lumped together under the guise of #metoo. Nothing to do with not believing. Again I draw your attention to the article that was posted earlier, and I reposted.

Why not, when a bloke stares or leers at you, go over and tell him to stop? And I mean that as a genuine question. It's way more likely to have an effect on him then reading stuff on twitter, which he probably won't even read.

You seem a very genuine poster Mrsmum, how often have you been levered at? And was it that big a deal to you?

Imagine if a guy twice your size was staring at you, sniggering behind his hand with his mates, obviously making remarks about you, would you feel safe enough to stride on over there and demand that he stop?

Or would you be a bit worried that someone who is assh*le enough to behave as you've already seen might just be assh*le enough to turn violent?

Women tend to be smaller than men - escalating a situation with an obviously obnoxious stranger is not very likely to end in the smaller person's favour.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-12-2018 1:52pm

leggo wrote: »

You’ve two gorgeous women friends who’ve never been intimidated by creeps? Right. Well you’ve put that in writing so let’s leave it up on one of the biggest sites in Ireland and leave it for people to see if they believe that.

No they havn't. What, don't believe them? How ironic.

py2006 · 07-12-2018 1:57pm

B0jangles wrote: »

.

For some reason any time women bring up the harassment they experience, they are either told it's no big deal or than men get the same treatment, just like you have done.

If you personally are happy to keep quiet and not complain, that is entirely your choice.

It is not up to you to tell other people to keep quiet just because you chose to.

A total misrepresentation of what I said. Well done.

B0jangles · 07-12-2018 1:58pm

py2006 wrote: »

A total misrepresentation of what I said. Well done.

How have I misrepresented you? I certainly did not intend to do so.

You cited your own experiences of being harassed and somehow slid from that to complaining that all men are being labelled potential harassers and that's its becoming the norm to look for 'any opportunity to make an accusation with total disregard for accountability.'

By that logic, you could easily be lying about and exaggerating your own experiences, or just making them up for attention and because you just want to get women into trouble. I do not think you are, nor do I think the vast majority of other victims of harassment are either.

I pointed out that sexual harassment shouldn't be acceptable against either men or women, and that your choice as to how to react to being harassed was yours to make - it's not up to you, or me to decide how anyone else should react*

*edit or to decide that they are probably making it all up because I really like the actor/mucisian/scientist who they are accusing.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-12-2018 2:02pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

I don't think you're getting the full picture. You're assuming I go over and stay stop that and job done. But said sleezy guy is not going to say sorry, I'll stop so, he's more likely to puff himself up and say don't flatter yourself, I wasn't looking at you at all, f**k sake,as if. And that assuming we are on the same level, What if I am just in the door or at a low grade and he is a big shot in the company. In a lot of bigger companies you could go to HR or union maybe but the thing is you get a name as a bit hysterical/prude or whatever because you're supposed to be able to deal with it yourself but why should women have to be dealing with this sh*te. A man sore because you slapped him down doesn't make for a happy working environment. And remember there is a lot of workplaces where there's no protection. Person who hands out the best shifts or extra hours using their position against women who need that job. The more vulnerable you are the greater the chance of abuse.

So what if he says don't flatter yourself etc. He'll deep down be highly embarrassed, and be less likely do it again. And him being a big shot is no excuse. Women are often accussed of being too meek. And this is an example of that. "Oh he's a big shot, I can't do anything". Actually yes, yes you can. Was this not the whole idea of feminism originally? For women to be strong and independent, and to stand up against this stuff as opposed to now

What your saying is there is nothing you can do but put it on social media, it's just one big viscous cycle. But it isn't.

Mrsmum wrote: »

You know in the future when you will have far more female managers, I actually have no doubt men will find themselves more and more on the receiving end of this and so for their sake too, can this nonsense that has no place in the workplace not be outlawed.

As for me, yes I have stories. Nothing serious but annoying stuff.

How could you possible outlaw staring/leering?

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-12-2018 2:10pm

B0jangles wrote: »

Imagine if a guy twice your size was staring at you, sniggering behind his hand with his mates, obviously making remarks about you, would you feel safe enough to stride on over there and demand that he stop?

Or would you be a bit worried that someone who is assh*le enough to behave as you've already seen might just be assh*le enough to turn violent?

Women tend to be smaller than men - escalating a situation with an obviously obnoxious stranger is not very likely to end in the smaller person's favour.

It would depend on a number of factors obviously, but in general, genuinely, yes I would. And yes I'm aware it is easy for me to say that, but I do understand the point you are making. You don't have to "stride over and demand he stop", walk over and be calm. It depends on the situation I'll admit. A man is very unlikely to hit a woman, more so if he's with his mates.

Look, I'm aware that the onus is on the bloke to not do it in the first place. But you can't keep on coming up with excuses to not do something about it yourself.

B0jangles · 07-12-2018 2:14pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

It would depend on a number of factors obviously, but in general, genuinely, yes I would. And yes I'm aware it is easy for me to say that, but I do understand the point you are making. You don't have to "stride over and demand he stop", walk over and be calm. It depends on the situation I'll admit. A man is very unlikely to hit a woman, more so if he's with his mates.
Look, I'm aware that the onus is on the bloke to not do it in the first place. But you can't keep on coming up with excuses to not do something about it yourself.

Good for you that you feel safe doing that.

I wouldn't - why on earth would I feel confident that a guy capable of publically behaving like a boor would be averse to hitting a woman who started telling him what to do?

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-12-2018 2:15pm

meeeeh wrote: »

There is some proof that out of college women out earn men, it all changes for majority of working life. It is also true that women are more successful getting university but they are not great converting it into senior positions at work (including universities or education). I'm all for equal opportunities, it would improve chances of young men but it would also affect the cushy position middle aged men have and that I suspect is what worries professore (it is his age/gender group that is benefiting above everyone in the current arrangement).

Here we go with "men are afraid of woman being successful" angle. I couldn't care less if more women go into University. At the end of the day they to study "weaker" subjects i.e. non-STEM ones anyway.

As long as men have the opportunity to go to University, and those that don't can do a trade or find a job, there is no problem. It'd be interesting to see the reaction of some feminists if the government came out with a proposal to enure a 50/50 gender split in University, which would be at the expense of women.

I think you have missed Professore's point anyhow.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-12-2018 2:20pm

B0jangles wrote: »

Good for you that you feel safe doing that.

I wouldn't - why on earth would I feel confident that a guy capable of publically behaving like a boor would be averse to hitting a woman who started telling him what to do?

Because the vast majority of men don't hit women.

batgoat · 07-12-2018 2:21pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

It would depend on a number of factors obviously, but in general, genuinely, yes I would. And yes I'm aware it is easy for me to say that, but I do understand the point you are making. You don't have to "stride over and demand he stop", walk over and be calm. It depends on the situation I'll admit. A man is very unlikely to hit a woman, more so if he's with his mates.

Look, I'm aware that the onus is on the bloke to not do it in the first place. But you can't keep on coming up with excuses to not do something about it yourself.

The reality is, you have absolutely no idea how they'll respond so I don't find it remotely strange that a person would put personal safety above confronting an unknown quantity on the street.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-12-2018 2:23pm

batgoat wrote: »

The reality is, you have absolutely no idea how they'll respond so I don't find it remotely strange that a person would put personal safety above confronting an unknown quantity on the street.

Be a meek coward so and go home and complain on Twitter. Watch as nothing changes.

meeeeh · 07-12-2018 2:24pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

As long as men have the opportunity to go to University, and those that don't can do a trade or find a job, there is no problem. It'd be interesting to see the reaction of some feminists if the government came out with a proposal to enure a 50/50 gender split in University, which would be at the expense of women.

I would have no problem at 50/50 split but then to make it fair it would have to be 50/50 at every course.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-12-2018 2:26pm

meeeeh wrote: »

I would have no problem at 50/50 split but then to make it fair it would have to be 50/50 at every course.

Oh my God. The numbers graduating from nursing, for example, would plummet.

B0jangles · 07-12-2018 2:27pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Because the vast majority of men don't hit women.

Can you tell the violent ones from the non-violent at a glance, or is it just a fun game of chance?

B0jangles · 07-12-2018 2:29pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Be a meek coward so and go home and complain on Twitter. Watch as nothing changes.

Are you just throwing these suggestions out off the top of your head or have you put even 5 minutes thought into them?

meeeeh · 07-12-2018 2:29pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Oh my God. The numbers graduating from nursing, for example, would plummet.

Oh so you are against 50/50 split, why did you bring it up?

07-12-2018 2:30pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Be a meek coward so and go home and complain on Twitter. Watch as nothing changes.

You want people to risk their safety? The fault lies with the harasser, not with those meek and complaining women who won't confront them and risk the possibility of worse. It sounds a lot like put up or shut up.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-12-2018 2:30pm

B0jangles wrote: »

Can you tell the violent ones from the non-violent at a glance, or is it just a fun game of chance?

Ye better just to assume all men are violent women beaters so. Nothing will change with your attitude.

I did say it would depend on a number of factors btw i.e. if it is just you on your own, time of day potentially etc.

Bigbagofcans · 07-12-2018 2:31pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Be a meek coward so and go home and complain on Twitter. Watch as nothing changes.

So anyone who gets verbally abused/degraded and harassed is a meek coward? You have very little empathy.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-12-2018 2:31pm

Candie wrote: »

You want people to risk their safety? The fault lies with the harasser, not with those meek and complaining women who won't confront them and risk the possibility of worse. It sounds a lot like put up or shut up.

I know the fault lies with the harasser. I've said as much.

Zorya · 07-12-2018 2:32pm

meeeeh wrote: »

I would have no problem at 50/50 split but then to make it fair it would have to be 50/50 at every course.

Why? Women are not on average as interested in STEM subjects, by their own choice. Studies show this time and time again. By your argument it would also have to be 50/50 men and women cleaning the sewers.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-12-2018 2:33pm

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

So anyone who gets verbally abused/degraded and harassed is a meek coward? You have very little empathy.

I want people to stand up for themselves, as opposed to forever making excuses as to why they can't, which is what is going on here. I can't, I can't, I can't.

07-12-2018 2:34pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

I know the fault lies with the harasser. I've said as much.

And you're laying the blame for nothing changing at the feet of the women who don't confront a person they don't know who is already behaving in an intimidating way towards them.

I'm less than 5ft tall, if two men are harassing me do you think I should go up to them and demand they stop in the hope they see the error of their ways, men who already think it's okay to harass?

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-12-2018 2:37pm

Candie wrote: »

And you're laying the blame for nothing changing at the feet of the women who don't confront a person they don't know who is already behaving in an intimidating way towards them.

I'm less than 5ft tall, if two men are harassing me do you think I should go up to them and demand they stop in the hope they see the error of their ways, men who already think it's okay to harass?

Yes I do.

I'm not laying the blame, I'm saying that nothing will change until you start to do these things. I'm making an observation.

There is a huge jump from leering/staring at a woman, or making a lewd remark, to actual physical violence.

End of #metoo

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