Should people in emergency accommodation be made pay for their stay?

splashuum · 04-12-2018 2:43pm #1

Niall Boylan poised this question today regarding people in emergency accommodation. Should they be made contribute a reasonable sum towards their stay?

SortingYouOut · 04-12-2018 2:58pm

I think the state can afford to put them up for free, considering the reason they're there in the first place.

A good scheme would be a mandatory saving scheme, with the pot given to the person when other accommodation is found for them, to help them out with paying for home content.

eviltwin · 04-12-2018 3:03pm

I work for an emergency accommodation provider and we take rent from service users even those on welfare. DCC guidelines. Not sure about the others but I'd imagine we all work under the same rules.

zell12 · 04-12-2018 3:06pm

eviltwin wrote: »

I work for an emergency accommodation provider and we take rent from service users even those on welfare. DCC guidelines. Not sure about the others but I'd imagine we all work under the same rules.

Agreed.
People pay a minimum contribution

04-12-2018 3:09pm

SortingYouOut wrote: »

I think the state can afford to put them up for free, considering the reason they're there in the first place............

Some of them are there so as they want a council flat/house and not a rented property from a landlord. ......... why should they be put up for "free"?

Foweva Awone · 04-12-2018 3:11pm

I spent a couple of months in an SVDP house, think it was €50 a week we had to pay. All bills and food included in that.

toxicity234 · 04-12-2018 3:43pm

I thinks so.
So if a person/ or Family is in on-going accommodation and receiving a pay, if it Social Welfare or Working they could pay a % of there income.
So Threshold say that a family shouldn't pay more than 30% of it income for accommodation.
So I think every family should pay 20% for the accommodation.

Then the homeless are encouraged to find HAP and not just sit there waiting for a council house and not paying anything. I.E. which we have seen from the likes of erica fleming.

The Specialist · 04-12-2018 4:02pm

Augeo wrote: »

Some of them are there so as they want a council flat/house and not a rented property from a landlord. ......... why should they be put up for "free"?

Sure don't you know all those homeless people are in that situation "cos of the evil government and de banks and de bailout and de" blah de ****in blah. No such thing as personal responsibility anymore, everyone elses fault except their own.

riclad · 04-12-2018 5:57pm

Did you ever stay in emergency accomodation ?
People in hotels have to back in every night by a certain time,
11pm approx, you have a tv , one kettle to make tea.
no cooking facilty,s .
i don,t think they should pay anything.
Its not very luxurious accomodation .

04-12-2018 6:12pm

riclad wrote: »

Did you ever stay in emergency accomodation ?
People in hotels ............. .

I've stayed in plenty hotels.
Sometimes for months at a time for work.

Bannasidhe · 04-12-2018 6:12pm

Augeo wrote: »

Some of them are there so as they want a council flat/house and not a rented property from a landlord. ......... why should they be put up for "free"?

Or to put it another way some people want a secure tenancy and not be told in 6 months or a year that the LL is selling up/ needs it for a relation/is refurbishing.

Imagine wanting secure accommodation-the cheek of some people.

04-12-2018 6:15pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Or to put it another way some people want a secure tenancy and not be told in 6 months or a year that the LL is selling up/ needs it for a relation/is refurbishing.

Imagine wanting secure accommodation-the cheek of some people.

When you are renting there is as they say for and against the situation.
It seems strange that folk who can't pay their way expect more than folk who are, very fooking strange actually. The folk paying their way and renting don't get the secure accommodation you mention but they get on with things as best they can.

Spanish Eyes · 04-12-2018 6:18pm

Do people in hotels not pay anything at all?

I suppose they have to buy their food and get their laundry done etc. Don't know if that is provided. But they have no light, heat, electric, gas, TV license, insurance to pay. Or maybe they do I dunno.

GingerLily · 04-12-2018 6:22pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Augeo wrote: »

Some of them are there so as they want a council flat/house and not a rented property from a landlord. ......... why should they be put up for "free"?

Or to put it another way some people want a secure tenancy and not be told in 6 months or a year that the LL is selling up/ needs it for a relation/is refurbishing.

Imagine wanting secure accommodation-the cheek of some people.

I was evicted twice, so I saved and bought a house.

Beggars shouldn't be choosers and all that

Bannasidhe · 04-12-2018 6:47pm

GingerLily wrote: »

I was evicted twice, so I saved and bought a house.

Beggars shouldn't be choosers and all that

Shouldn't have to be beggers at all.
People should have access to secure long-term accommodation.

I'm glad you were able to buy a house, Not everyone is in that position.

Bannasidhe · 04-12-2018 6:52pm

Augeo wrote: »

When you are renting there is as they say for and against the situation.
It seems strange that folk who can't pay their way expect more than folk who are, very fooking strange actually. The folk paying their way and renting don't get the secure accommodation you mention but they get on with things as best they can.

Has it occurred to you that some of those people in "emergency" accommodation were paying their way but were evicted because LL selling/relation moving in/refurbishment and found it impossible to find accommodation due to spiraling rent costs?

Sure, charge a fee but then end the practice of requiring people (incl children) to vacate the rooms during the day.

Gatling · 04-12-2018 7:09pm

Emergency accommodation or not ,
People should be paying their fair share to stay in hotels or b&bs ,i believe it's added to the growing thend of homelessness and people in hotels turning down multiple offers of housing,
A token fee isn't good enough especially if people are in full and part time employment

04-12-2018 7:31pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Has it occurred to you that some of those people in "emergency" accommodation were paying their way but were evicted because LL selling/relation moving in/refurbishment and found it impossible to find accommodation due to spiraling rent costs?

...

No doubt there's a few.... amongst the wasters

For every case you describe there's at least one turning down alternative accommodation so as to maintain their "endeavour" in securing a council property

jimmycrackcorm · 04-12-2018 7:38pm

riclad wrote:

Did you ever stay in emergency accomodation ? People in hotels have to back in every night by a certain time, 11pm approx, you have a tv , one kettle to make tea. no cooking facilty,s . i don,t think they should pay anything. Its not very luxurious accomodation .

You mean like people who actually use hotel rooms in general?

Spanish Eyes · 04-12-2018 7:41pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You mean like people who actually use hotel rooms in general?

Well apart from a curfew, and maybe a fridge you are correct.

Bannasidhe · 04-12-2018 7:42pm

Augeo wrote: »

No doubt there's a few.... amongst the wasters

For every case you describe there's at least one turning down alternative accommodation so as to maintain their "endeavour" in securing a council property

And why do they want council property?
Because it's secure.

I don't think wanting a secure tenancy is being a waster - I think that's the mini standard.

noodler · 04-12-2018 7:43pm

Renters really are the ones getting screwed.

Just paying to survive with little. Hope og long term accommodation whereas those being looked after by the state and usually not working get some. Sort of. Permanentl and incredibly cheap accommodation.

Foweva Awone · 04-12-2018 8:06pm

Foweva Awone wrote: »

I spent a couple of months in an SVDP house, think it was €50 a week we had to pay. All bills and food included in that.

By the way that was a house with several other women, with lots of rules and very basic facilities. I'm now paying half that on HAP for a two-bed apartment. So I guess financially the incentive was there to move out.

Generally though being homeless is really crap. Those who've never been can't really understand the "ungrounded" feeling, the anxiety, the feeling that you're a burden to everyone kind enough to accommodate you. I rarely slept on the streets, but I've spent a fair amount of time in hostels, recovery houses, treatment centres and was still counted as "homeless" all that time. You can be kicked out at a moment's notice, you lose so much free will and independence. There's no stability.

Knowing that where I am now I can come and go as I please, do what I want with my time, and most of all knowing I'd be given a month to organise myself if the landlord decided to end the tenancy ... it's just amazing. I'd almost forgotten what it was like to have stability like this. It's like I can breathe again.

I just can't imagine anyone would stay in emergency accommodation if they had any other option. It's just so difficult to find HAP properties. I was extremely lucky.

Wheeliebin30 · 04-12-2018 8:11pm

Foweva Awone wrote: »

By the way that was a house with several other women, with lots of rules and very basic facilities. I'm now paying half that on HAP for a two-bed apartment. So I guess financially the incentive was there to move out.

Generally though being homeless is really crap. Those who've never been can't really understand the "ungrounded" feeling, the anxiety, the feeling that you're a burden to everyone kind enough to accommodate you. I rarely slept on the streets, but I've spent a fair amount of time in hostels, recovery houses, treatment centres and was still counted as "homeless" all that time. You can be kicked out at a moment's notice, you lose so much free will and independence. There's no stability.

Knowing that where I am now I can come and go as I please, do what I want with my time, and most of all knowing I'd be given a month to organise myself if the landlord decided to end the tenancy ... it's just amazing. I'd almost forgotten what it was like to have stability like this. It's like I can breathe again.

I just can't imagine anyone would stay in emergency accommodation if they had any other option. It's just so difficult to find HAP properties. I was extremely lucky.

Hmmm I wonder why landlords don’t like taking HAP.

One of life’s great mysteries that.

Foweva Awone · 04-12-2018 8:18pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Hmmm I wonder why landlords don’t like taking HAP.

One of life’s great mysteries that.

I'm not sure what you're implying there, but I'm pretty much an ideal tenant, good work and previous landlord references etc, I get on great with the landlord. I'd been renting privately for years and years without any issues before I went through a very rough couple of years in addiction, which can happen to anyone, believe it or not. I was lucky enough to come out the other side. People can end up on HAP for a variety of reasons, doesn't mean they're automatically going to be bad tenants.

davindub · 04-12-2018 8:25pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

And why do they want council property?
Because it's secure.

I don't wanting a secure tenancy is being a waster - I think that's the mini standard.

Could probably half the emergency list by forcing offspring to move back into their parents, of course then they move down the housing list. A charge for hotels will hopefully reduce those doing it to get moved up the list.

Wheeliebin30 · 04-12-2018 8:27pm

Foweva Awone wrote: »

I'm not sure what you're implying there, but I'm pretty much an ideal tenant, good work and previous landlord references etc, I get on great with the landlord. I'd been renting privately for years and years without any issues before I went through a very rough couple of years in addiction, which can happen to anyone, believe it or not. I was lucky enough to come out the other side. People can end up on HAP for a variety of reasons, doesn't mean they're automatically going to be bad tenants.

Nope it doesn’t.

But I think you know my point so I’m not going to bore you with the details.

GingerLily · 04-12-2018 8:35pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

GingerLily wrote: »

I was evicted twice, so I saved and bought a house.

Beggars shouldn't be choosers and all that

Shouldn't have to be beggers at all.
People should have access to secure long-term accommodation.

I'm glad you were able to buy a house, Not everyone is in that position.

Secure long term accommodation is a luxury that so many renters in Dublin are not entitled to.

I just don't think it's fair that the middle seem to get the raw end of the stick.

I've no problem with council housing, but manipulating the system to get a forever home faster, I think, is ridiculous.

Sleeper12 · 04-12-2018 8:49pm

splashuum wrote:

Niall Boylan poised this question today regarding people in emergency accommodation. Should they be made contribute a reasonable sum towards their stay?

It's akin to expecting prisoners to pay for their jail sells when they earn 15 euro per week.

People in Hubs already pay. The people who don't pay stay in hostels & hotels where they get kicked out onto the street at 8am, have no cooking facilities so they have pay to eat out or they have to change accommodation several times per week.

What exactly would they be paying for?

Sleeper12 · 04-12-2018 8:53pm

Augeo wrote:

I've stayed in plenty hotels. Sometimes for months at a time for work.

With children? Getting them ready for school, travelling on two buses to get them to school and then after school stook in a room with nowhere to play?

Being a guest in a hotel & actually living in one are two totally different things

Gatling · 04-12-2018 8:58pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

People in Hubs already pay.

The people who don't pay stay in hostels & hotels where they get kicked out onto the street at 8am, have no cooking facilities so they have pay to eat out or they have to change accommodation several times per week.

The vast majority don't live in hubs and the vast majority don't have to leave.their accommodation at 8pm ( emergency hostels yes) but not hotels b&bs (business model has always operated on out after breakfast and come back in the evening ).
And those who have to be out of hotels at 8 either have school runs or have jobs to go to ,still don't pay

Sleeper12 · 04-12-2018 9:13pm

Gatling wrote:

The vast majority don't live in hubs and the vast majority don't have to leave.their accommodation at 8pm ( emergency hostels yes) but not hotels b&bs (business model has always operated on out after breakfast and come back in the evening ). And those who have to be out of hotels at 8 either have school runs or have jobs to go to ,still don't pay

They have no cooking facilities at all. They have to pay for take out food or store bought sandwiches. A huge amount of people in hotels have to move regularly. Sometimes several times per week.

What exactly would they be paying for?

leonffrench · 04-12-2018 9:21pm

Sleeper12 wrote:

What exactly would they be paying for?

A roof over their head

Wheeliebin30 · 04-12-2018 9:23pm

leonffrench wrote: »

A roof over their head

Imagine having to do that like!

Sleeper12 · 04-12-2018 9:28pm

leonffrench wrote:

A roof over their head

So the roughsleepers brought in for the night should have to pay for a mat on the floor just because they have a roof over their head?

If you read the thread you will see people who have been in emergency accommodation and they have explained that they paid something towards rent.

The only ones not charged anything are ones that have to vacate every morning and roam the streets till 8pm, people that get moved from place to place several times per week & people with no cooking facilities. Everyone else pays. EVERYONE

Sleeper12 · 04-12-2018 9:29pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

Imagine having to do that like!

I'd love to see you try it for a few weeks. Your opinion would change quick enough

Wheeliebin30 · 04-12-2018 9:29pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

So the roughsleepers brought in for the night should have to pay for a mat on the floor just because they have a roof over their head?

If you read the thread you will see people who have been in emergency accommodation and they have explained that they paid something towards rent.

The only ones not charged anything are ones that have to vacate every morning and roam the streets till 8pm, people that get moved from place to place several times per week & people with no cooking facilities. Everyone else pays. EVERYONE

Yeah like everyone in council houses pay rent although there is 60 million in arrears.

Give over ffs and wake up.

Wheeliebin30 · 04-12-2018 9:31pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'd love to see you try it for a few weeks. Your opinion would change quick enough

I wouldn’t deliberately make myself homless to get a forever home.

I work hard to provide for my family and don’t expect anyone else to do it for me.

You wouldn’t understand this concept though.

punisher5112 · 04-12-2018 9:31pm

There are nurses and careers working in hse care homes etc that are working full time but been put up in emergency housing.

This to me is beyond nuts as these are getting good money and do sh1t loads of o/t.

engiweirdo · 04-12-2018 9:32pm

Theres a nasty mean spirited libertarian streak present in a lot of posters on here. A little bit of advice perhaps: This is Europe, we don't play like that. You want that type of society? Theres this giant libertarian playground run by an orange guy to the west. Have at it. I suspect it's maybe not as fun as you think.

leonffrench · 04-12-2018 9:32pm

Sleeper12 wrote:

So the roughsleepers brought in for the night should have to pay for a mat on the floor just because they have a roof over their head?

Have read all the thread thanks and you know very well we aren't talking about rough sleepers

Sleeper12 · 04-12-2018 9:37pm

leonffrench wrote:

Have read all the thread thanks and you know very well we aren't talking about rough sleepers

If you read the thread you'd see the thread title. Emergency accommodation also includes inner city shelters & hostels.

Again if you read the thread you will see posters who lived in emergency accommodation stating that they paid rent.

Gatling · 04-12-2018 9:38pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They have no cooking facilities at all. They have to pay for take out food or store bought sandwiches. A huge amount

What exactly would they be paying for?

Funny thing Suddenly all their mammies and daddy's living in council housing became invisible ,
Bet you anything local take aways businesses haven't increased with these thousands of Extra orders coming in from hotels nightly

Not buying it for one bit ,

They should be paying to stay and its absolutely crazy to suggest people live rent fee and utilities free until they get their perfect forever home in the perfect new build council estate in the perfect area.

leonffrench · 04-12-2018 9:40pm

engiweirdo wrote:

Theres a nasty mean spirited libertarian streak present in a lot of posters on here. A little bit of advice perhaps: This is Europe, we don't play like that. You want that type of society? Theres this giant libertarian playground run by an orange guy to the west. Have at it. I suspect it's maybe not as fun as you think.

No.... just sick of paying for other people who decide not to take any responsibility for their actions. Me and wheelybin are on the same page here and I'll hazard a guess and say he/she, like me, wasn't born with a silver spoon but had to work hard to get, and keep, a roof over our families heads.

Sleeper12 · 04-12-2018 9:42pm

leonffrench wrote: »

Have read all the thread thanks and you know very well we aren't talking about rough sleepers

Try reading these

eviltwin wrote: »

I work for an emergency accommodation provider and we take rent from service users even those on welfare. DCC guidelines. Not sure about the others but I'd imagine we all work under the same rules.

Foweva Awone wrote: »

I spent a couple of months in an SVDP house, think it was €50 a week we had to pay. All bills and food included in that.

Wheeliebin30 · 04-12-2018 9:43pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Try reading these

60 million in rent arrears in social housing.

Some pay most don’t.

Sleeper12 · 04-12-2018 9:49pm

Whit so many up on their high horse no one thought is it legal to charge rent to a homeless person when they are only allowed on the premises for 12 hours out of 24?

Isn't it illegal to rent a home without cooking facilities?

The government sets out minimum standards in rental accommodation, wouldn't it look wonderful if they break their own minimum standards/ How could they expect private landlords to abide by the law when the government doesn't?

It's ridiculous to suggest that homeless people pay for emergency accommodation that doesn't meet minimum standards set down in law.

Gatling · 04-12-2018 9:49pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Try reading these

That means nothing ,

One said they are payed €50 to stay Vincents for their accommodation
And one said they work somewhere that charges rent ,

The majority living in hotels and b&bs do not pay a single financial contribution to their stay which in a lot of cases is multiple years living rent and utilities free despite being capable of financially affording it ,

Gatling · 04-12-2018 9:51pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Isn't it illegal to rent a home without cooking facilities?

Hotels are not homes they don't fall under rental laws but I get the feeling that was already known

Sleeper12 · 04-12-2018 9:55pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

60 million in rent arrears in social housing.

Some pay most don’t.

What has that to do with homeless people in emergency accommodation?

I know you have issues with the homeless crisis but you need to vent at the next FG meeting, not here. I didn't cause this mess or ignore it since 2012 so no point venting here. FG were warned since 2012 & they ignored it. The billions squandered on Irish water & meters could have kick started building in 2012. They doctor the figures month by month to try keep it under 10,000 when everyone & their dog knows it broke the 10,000 barrier 9 months ago

Gatling · 04-12-2018 10:00pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What has that to do with homeless people in emergency accommodation?

What's the current bill for free hotels and b&bs €300,000,000, + and climbing per year ,

Where does it stop 4 years a billion euro bill and nothing payed back In return

Should people in emergency accommodation be made pay for their stay?

Comments