Dublin Coach Experience Discussion Thread

WishUWereHere · 31-03-2018 4:07pm

devnull wrote: »

Question is though how much is down to drivers and how much is down to management? The recent articles in relation to the road safety authority would suggest there are not just issues with drivers themselves.

2 things for me here:

1) AFAIK, a coach's speed limit in the ROI is 100KPH. I have driven down the N/M 7 at 100-110KOH, and not only DC, but JJKavanagh & especially the blue coaches ( I am almost certain Aircoach ) going past me in the outside lane, which I am almost certain, is illegal &

2) Management in DC HAVE a responsibility. Surely they should have their crocks governed?

tabbey · 31-03-2018 4:08pm

WishUWereHere wrote: »

You touch on a couple of issues here Kaiser:

2) Just why is there only daylight work happening here? I'm not driving this weekend but I bet there is no work being done? This road is so critical for all users, it should be a 24/7 operation.

There was no work there yesterday, Good Friday, but the temporary speed limit applies 24/7.

The same was true when I got points ten years ago at Red Cow Hotel. On that occasion, the widening work had been completely finished, but the speed limit had yet to be returned to normal, hence a Garda took advantage of a soft target for his/her quota.

In the UK i think it is regular practice to have variable speed limits depending on circumstances. These can be announced on (LED) illuminated display boards

devnull · 31-03-2018 4:10pm

WishUWereHere wrote: »

1) AFAIK, a coach's speed limit in the ROI is 100KPH. I have driven down the N/M 7 at 100-110KOH, and not only DC, but BE JJKavanagh & especially the blue coaches ( I am almost certain Eircoach ) going past me in the outside lane, which I am almost certain, is illegal

Only ones I have seen doing it are Dublin Coach - however I'm not on that road very often at all so other people who are on it more regular would have a better idea than I would.

Management in DC HAVE a responsibility. Surely they should have their crocks governed?

See:
https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/crime-and-courts/296245/dublin-coach-bus-company-that-services-laois-and-kildare-fined-6-000.html
&
https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/home/304132/road-safety-authority-slams-two-kildare-bus-companies-trading-as-dublin-coach-after-11-000-fines-issued.html

tabbey · 31-03-2018 4:12pm

WishUWereHere wrote: »

2 things for me here:

1) AFAIK, a coach's speed limit in the ROI is 100KPH. I have driven down the N/M 7 at 100-110KOH, and not only DC, but BE JJKavanagh & especially the blue coaches ( I am almost certain Aircoach ) going past me in the outside lane,

Speedometers are made to over read.

It is possible that when you believe you are moving at 100-110 km/h, you may actually be under 100km/h.

tabbey · 31-03-2018 4:23pm

devnull wrote: »

Only ones I have seen doing it are Dublin Coach - however I'm not on that road very often at all so other people who are on it more regular would have a better idea than I would.
]

Since Dublin Coach is by far the most prolific operator on the N7/M7 corridor, it is usually the one we notice.

I cannot say that the others are less likely to speed, it seems like all coaches are under pressure to reduce journey times to a minimum, not just for public satisfaction, but also because there is limited scope for recovering time at the terminus, before the return journey.
They probably have learned from Mr O'Leary of Ryanair - keep them moving, dwell time is a waste of capital and payroll.

punisher5112 · 31-03-2018 5:24pm

They caught fire when with aircoach also. They are worn out junkers so is it any wonder they catch fire.

Worked hard but maintained well with first operator.

Worked hard now but maintaining them doesn't seem top priority.

devnull · 31-03-2018 5:26pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

They caught fire when with aircoach also. They are worn out junkers so is it any wonder they catch fire.

The 2003 ones suffered from gearbox issues with Aircoach which is why they were replaced far quicker than the 2004 ones, but never went up on fire.

One 2004 one went on fire in Balinteer but the damage was not fatal and it re-entered service following a body rebuild by Evobus whilst one of them was permanently withdrawn from service in 2016 due to technical issues and was apparently scrapped. The rest of the 2004 ones went to Dublin Coach.

Tickityboo · 01-04-2018 10:53am

Just another well maintained Dublin Coach on the Curragh this morning!!
Sorry for the poor quality photo.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 01-04-2018 11:04am

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Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 01-04-2018 11:11am

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

Is it leaning or was it the road surface?
As for the lighting,chances are it was already blown when (if) the daily walk around check was done.

Shame the reg can't be made out because I reported one of those things with the exact same issue months ago.

Because the marker on the top is not working, nor the cluster on the bottom right, it's an electrical fault rather than bulbs

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 01-04-2018 11:16am

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devnull · 01-04-2018 11:23am

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

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7 of them I believe.

punisher5112 · 01-04-2018 12:02pm

All LED on rear of those vanhools.

Tickityboo · 01-04-2018 1:26pm

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

Is it leaning or was it the road surface?
As for the lighting,chances are it was already blown when (if) the daily walk around check was done.

The camber of the road.

Grandad99 · 01-04-2018 9:46pm

WishUWereHere wrote: »

I see there is now a flashing sign stating already 68 prosecutions have been issued.

I am a user of the N7 / M7, travelling between J8 & J10 most days.

I don’t know how many vehicles use this stretch of road each day but I would guess it is in the tens of thousands.

In my experience the vast majority are doing way more than the 60 Kph limit, many totally ignoring it.

68 prosecutions since the lower limit was introduced in early January works out at less than 1 a day.

If they really want people to slow down, there should be a realistic speed limit and a real chance of being caught, as things stand you would want to be very unlucky.

bebeman · 02-04-2018 2:32pm

This is a glimpse of the future, you wanted a NTA , well now you got it , warts and all.

punisher5112 · 02-04-2018 2:50pm

Private companies will cut as many corners as they possibly can as at the end of it all they aren't there to serve but to make as much profits as they possibly can.

Beasty · 02-04-2018 6:11pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Private companies will cut as many corners as they possibly can as at the end of it all they aren't there to serve but to make as much profits as they possibly can.

Some may, but most businesses are longer-sighted. They realise their business model is dependent on customer goodwill, and failure to deliver a quality service can destroy that business. Short-term profits at the expense of long-term business delivers little return to investors, It's in the interests of private companies to continue to improve their offering, be that on price, quality of service, or a combination of the two

Equally it could be argued that there is not much incentive for the public sector to improve as they typically get bailed out by the taxpayer

I'm not saying there is no role for either, but the blinkered approach within the public sector delivers little in the way of improvement without competition. Competition means providers need to try and offer a better service for the same price, or an equivalent service cheaper

devnull · 02-04-2018 8:16pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Private companies will cut as many corners as they possibly can as at the end of it all they aren't there to serve but to make as much profits as they possibly can.

Obviously Dublin Coach have their issues - but painting the whole private sector as being exactly the same couldn't be more wrong. I have worked in the private sector for most of my life and I can assure you that it's nowhere near as cut and dried as that.

If a private sector business cuts too many corners it loses it's customers to the competition, so it has to provide a good standard of service or else it goes out of business. A public service monopoly doesn't have this problem as it will never be allowed to go out of business and will always have taxpayers money to bail it out.

Stephen15 · 02-04-2018 10:39pm

devnull wrote: »

If a private sector business cuts too many corners it loses it's customers to the competition, so it has to provide a good standard of service or else it goes out of business. A public service monopoly doesn't have this problem as it will never be allowed to go out of business and will always have taxpayers money to bail it out.

PSO routes will always be a monopoly. It's coming to the point where what was the CIE monopoly is becoming an NTA monopoly. I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing but it's a fact. If the GA tendered continue to lose money the NTA will continue to be subsidised by the taxpayer. No subsidies no service on most PSO routes bar a handful.

The alternative to a monopoly in public transport is a British style deregulation of bus markets and that does not work as you probably know.

schemingbohemia · 03-04-2018 1:53pm

bebeman wrote: »

This is a glimpse of the future, you wanted a NTA , well now you got it , warts and all.

NTA didn't decide the legislation that was used to set up bus licensing for it, it was done by the Department.
There's nothing in the legislation unfortunately that allows consideration to be given to cases like the RSA took DC to court over, the legislation needs to change before the NTA can act on cases like this.

punisher5112 · 03-04-2018 2:15pm

Nta is just a spin off of the department to create more high paying jobs.

bk · 03-04-2018 5:35pm

Given how VASTLY better Aircoach, Citylink, GoBE/GoBus are then BE, I'll be forever grateful that the old times are behind us.

I've always been of the opinion that it doesn't really make a difference if a service is operated by a private company or semi-state as long as their is competition.

Once a company has a monopoly, whether private or public, they tend to get lazy, lack innovation, cut to many corners or get too expensive.

Dublin Coach are a perfect example of this. On their Limerick routes they more or less have a monopoly and we see this happen. However then look at their Belfast route where they have lots of competition and you see they run a much better service, with new coaches, etc. Because they have to compete.

The two direct competitors per route works extremely well on the Cork, Galway, Belfast (I know a bit different) routes, with Aircoach/GoBus/Citylink all keeping each other on their toes.

I'm not sure what went wrong with the licensing on the Limerick route, lack of competition on that route definitely hurts it.

But don't kid yourself, as a regular intercity bus traveller, I'd never want to go back to the bad old days of BE. Coach only every two hours, no coach after 6pm, no toilets, 4.5 hour journey to Cork! Terrible service.

punisher5112 · 03-04-2018 5:45pm

Bk it's shocking how bad service has been and still is.

Huge improvement but so much further to go.

Public transportation should be fast and get people around much quicker.

Look at the UK fast trains, I understand much bigger area to cover and much bigger population but people should be able to get from a to b so much quicker.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 03-04-2018 5:49pm

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tabbey · 03-04-2018 6:07pm

bk wrote: »

Dublin Coach are a perfect example of this. On their Limerick routes they more or less have a monopoly and we see this happen.

I'm not sure what went wrong with the licensing on the Limerick route, lack of competition on that route definitely hurts it.
.

Do the various Kavanagh operators (JJ or Pierce) not run to/from Limerick?

bk · 03-04-2018 6:09pm

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Going by what I saw at Patricks Quay on Saturday morning, all the coach companies are doing extremely well. The place was jam packed with well over a dozen double parked coaches!

And yes Patricks Quay is not good enough, Cork needs a private coach station like Galway has.

I was on GoBE that day and it was completely full, first time I've seen that! Plus it looked like they had a relief coach too! Of course all of that was likely the result of the Irish Rail works that weekend. But still the coach companies seem to be doing well there from what I can see going down every few weeks.

No idea who is taking Dublin Coach, I assume it is mostly folks going Cork to Waterford or Waterford to Dublin. I assume no one is crazy to actually go Cork to Dublin by them!

The company I don't see get much mention is Citylink and their Cork - Limerick - Galway route. I'm always impressed when I see the Citylink Vanhools on Patrick Quay, easily the best looking coach on the Quay and yet it most be one of their more marginal routes! It is a real pity they don't operate direct from Dublin to Cork and Limerick. They look to be a top quality operator.

Cork still feels a bit immature compared to the Galway route, I think it still has a ways to go. But WAY better then 10 years ago and the mess that seems to exist in Limerick.

BTW If you are a regular traveller to Cork, GoBE give every 11th trip free, which makes them cheaper then Aircoach.

tabbey · 03-04-2018 6:12pm

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Presumably people use it for different sections eg Dublin - Kilkenny, Kilkenny - Dungarvan, Waterford - Cork.

Providing toilet breaks were facilitated, the scenic route might be nice for a tourist on a good summer day.

bk · 03-04-2018 6:21pm

tabbey wrote: »

Do the various Kavanagh operators (JJ or Pierce) not run to/from Limerick?

They operate a stopping service that takes about an hour longer then DC's more limited stop service (it isn't quite non stop like the Cork/Galway services, but not bad).

There is also CityLinks EirEagle service that operates direct between Limerick and Dublin Airport. It doesn't stop at Dublin City.

Point is non of these directly compete with Dublin Coaches core services in the way say Aircoach/GoBe do in Cork or Citylink/GoBus do in Galway, with pretty much the same service at a 30 minute gap between one another.

Dravokivich · 04-04-2018 9:20am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The problem with these particular roadworks (as someone who drives that road daily myself), is the limit is imposed too early on the city-side and is artificially low for the current conditions - with minimal actual works happening on the main line most of the time, a limit of 80/90 would currently be more suitable.

The result is that trying to stick to the 60.. or even 70ish.. is an extremely stressful and frustrating experience, added to by the other traffic shooting past and trying to get into your back seat (tailgating).

It's taking far longer to do these works than it should but that apparently is down to how the contracts (more accurately payment installments for them) have been designed.

How so? I did it fine on Monday. Other traffic blitzing by, it's their problem. not mine. Where's the stress in that? I just kept left.

dashcamdanny · 04-04-2018 11:30am

Dravokivich wrote: »

How so? I did it fine on Monday. Other traffic blitzing by, it's their problem. not mine. Where's the stress in that? I just kept left.

yeah, same.

I think they need to move it up to 80 and build some type of traffic calming measure .
If the Garda was to put up a speed trap at the moment, at least 90% of folk travelling on that part would have penalty points by the end of the day.

Its poor road design right now.

AlekSmart · 04-04-2018 12:42pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

yeah, same.

I think they need to move it up to 80 and build some type of traffic calming measure .
If the Garda was to put up a speed trap at the moment, at least 90% of folk travelling on that part would have penalty points by the end of the day.

Its poor road design right now.

Poor Design it certainly is,BUT...it is fully compliant with current Best-Practice in Irish administrative terms.

Somewhere,buried in an office far from the site,sits a suitably well qualified Engineer,fully convinced that this site has NO issues.

He/She,will move on from this,perhaps to greater things,and all the time without ever having to push at the boundaries of their accepted norms.

Our national inability to be creative and proactive will continue to shine,as long as stuff like this remains unchallenged.

s14driftking · 10-04-2018 7:56pm

Citywest inbound this evening. There fitters must have some nitemares keeping stuff running!!!

punisher5112 · 10-04-2018 7:59pm

s14driftking wrote: »

Citywest inbound this evening. There fitters must have some nitemares keeping stuff running!!!

Tow company is happy getting the business.

john boye · 10-04-2018 8:07pm

You'd think they'd invest in a tow wagon of their own at this stage. Mind you that'd probably be forever breaking down too!

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 10-04-2018 8:43pm

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Drifter50 · 11-04-2018 11:53pm

I have business in Knockmitten Lane every other day and it staggers me the number of carcases and skeletons of Dublin Coach buses left dumped all over the area. They seem to have 5/6 units in different parts of the industrial estate and outside each one are a collection of 10/15 year old buses most of which will never move again. There is a laneway with small industrial units on 1 side and whats on the other side? 12 out of service broken down buses. Why don`t the council serve proceedings and clean the place up. If I was a commercial ratepayer in the area I would be screaming at South Dublin Co Co. Incidentally one of the out of service vehicles is an ancient AEC Mandator recovery truck which won`t move again so I guess they have to use contractors recovery vehicles. Seems that most of these buses are the Neoplan double deckers and also several articulated units that are maybe ex airport. Also a couple of ancient London Transport Routemasters that I can`t imagine anyone wants to travel on.

XPS_Zero · 12-04-2018 12:48pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Private companies will cut as many corners as they possibly can as at the end of it all they aren't there to serve but to make as much profits as they possibly can.

Have you had any experience with CIE? Are you gonna seriously tell me that a state monopoly with no competition and ultra secure contracts <MOD SNIP> have a better customer service ethos? I'd argue, even though many staff are fantastic as individuals, the organization overall doesn't have one - because thats the systemic structural problem they don't need to care.

Totally public or totally private always end up the same way in public transport (whereas in say healthcare and education you can see a public private mix makes things much worse, as you can see with health in Ireland and education in the USA), see CIE for the former and see post British Rail for the latter. Which is why the experience has taught everyone in the developed world a hybrid model, such as the lUAS model the NTA is running, is the best option. Nobody said it has no flaws, but by god CIE certainly has it's flaws (how many times did they keep asking for that extra billion after getting it?)

It's a very intellectually dishonest to compare an unregulated Dublin-Belfast route to the NTA model when they are not at all alike.

To "they will just keep making as much money as they can" I could easily say of CIE type models "they'll keep going as deep into the red as they like knowing they don't have to be efficient or responsible or rational, because their boss, unlike in the private sector, can borrow (to a point) unlimited money and is the issuer of currency so why would they worry?"

There are flaws in both fully private and fully public monopoly which is why the NTA model came about. Remember before all these changes Irish Rail were refusing to even put wifi on their trains, they were refusing an integrated smart card, any remotly progressive change and they were no no no no no no no

All you need do as an answer to critique of the private companies is say two words: Bus Eireann.

Drifter50 · 12-04-2018 7:12pm

I get your point that BE is far from an accomplished service provider. There are huge issues in the company but my experience is that there are lots of good honest employees doing what THEY consider is best. Yes I understand there are huge numbers of disgruntled and beleaguered employees but its not fair to make Bus Eireann the point of all anger. Clearly the end game is a public private partnership which should be a win win situation.

I wonder have you ever taken a non urban bus in South America, might open your eyes to chaos..............

s14driftking · 12-04-2018 7:49pm

Broke down in naas this morning

Driver of this 181 driver should be fired and the guards cut up his licence. Flashing and blowing and hopping lanes like a lunatic from Samuel Beckett bridge to the port tunnel.this was yesterday evening.

john boye · 12-04-2018 8:24pm

s14driftking wrote: »

Broke down in naas this morning

Driver of this 181 driver should be fired and the guards cut up his licence. Flashing and blowing and hopping lanes like a lunatic from Samuel Beckett bridge to the port tunnel.this was yesterday evening.

Says the man taking a pic while driving....

s14driftking · 12-04-2018 8:32pm

john boye wrote: »

Says the man taking a pic while driving....

Parked at toll before port tunnel

devnull · 12-04-2018 8:55pm

Bringing child molestation into an argument about the security of Bus Eireann contracts is rather inappropriate and off-topic and as such the initial post mentioning this and the posts quoting this have been edited.

Also a reminder to those who feel a post breaks the rules, to report them rather than tackling it on thread.

- Moderator

bk · 13-04-2018 11:30am

Drifter50 wrote: »

I wonder have you ever taken a non urban bus in South America, might open your eyes to chaos..............

Which buses do you mean?

I've travelled extensively in Brazil and the intercity coaches are pretty great, put us to shame. 4G wifi, air conditioning, power plugs and far more legroom and comfortable seats (understandable given the much longer distances travelled).

I was really impressed, pretty high quality stuff.

Maybe you mean the little semi-unofficial vans? Yeah they are a bit mad and hot and sweaty, but damn cheap.

punisher5112 · 13-04-2018 12:10pm

bk wrote: »

Which buses do you mean?

I've travelled extensively in Brazil and the intercity coaches are pretty great, put us to shame. 4G wifi, air conditioning, power plugs and far more legroom and comfortable seats (understandable given the much longer distances travelled).

I was really impressed, pretty high quality stuff.

Maybe you mean the little semi-unofficial vans? Yeah they are a bit mad and hot and sweaty, but damn cheap.

We have ok wifi and power points are on all 2017 upwards. Issue with these is I've seen many damaged and stuff like gum stuffed into them or missing completely.

Leg room is an issue for us tall folk alright.

bk · 13-04-2018 12:25pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

We have ok wifi and power points are on all 2017 upwards. Issue with these is I've seen many damaged and stuff like gum stuffed into them or missing completely.

Haven't noticed that on the private company buses, nor surprisingly on the new Dublin Buses with them, but only time will tell, fingers crossed.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Leg room is an issue for us tall folk alright.

Yes, it was really impressive on the Brazilian coaches, you could stretch WAY out. There was so much room people had kids playing on the ground in front of them!

BTW Here is an example of an impressive beasts you would see in Rio. Though in fairness most were more standard tri-axle single deckers:

DD-Via%25C3%25A7%25C3%25A3o-1001.jpg

Of course this isn't all of South America, I've no doubt there are some other countries and areas there with terrible buses and coaches.

punisher5112 · 13-04-2018 12:48pm

Our roads couldn't take those the size of it.

bk · 13-04-2018 1:29pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Our roads couldn't take those the size of it.

Oh I know, absolutely, not saying they should, just thought it was interesting from a geeky bus spotter perspective. The intercity coach services are really quiet impressive over there, here is what lonely planet has to say:

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/brazil/transport/getting-around/bus

Bus services in Brazil are generally excellent. Departure times are usually strictly adhered to, and most of the buses are clean, comfortable and well-serviced Mercedes, Volvo and Scania vehicles.

All major cities are linked by frequent buses – one leaves every 15 minutes from Rio to São Paulo during peak hours – and there is a surprising number of long-distance buses. Every big city, and most small ones, has at least one main long-distance bus station, known as a rodoviária (pronounced ho-do-vi-ah-ree-ya).

Brazil has numerous bus companies and the larger cities have several dozen rival agencies. The easiest resource to search national bus routes is Busca Ônibus (www.buscaonibus.com.br).

Classes

There are three main classes of long-distance bus. The ordinary convencional or comum is indeed the most common. It’s fairly comfortable and usually has a toilet on board. An executivo or semi-leito is more comfortable (with reclining seats), costs about 25% more and stops less often. A leito (overnight sleeper) can cost twice as much as a comum and has fully reclining seats with blankets and pillows, air-con and sometimes an attendant serving sandwiches, coffee, soda and água mineral (mineral water).

With or without toilets, buses generally make pit stops for food and bathroom breaks every three or four hours.

Air-con on buses is sometimes strong; carry a light sweater or jacket to keep warm.

Of course a lot of that wouldn't be applicable to Ireland. Distances there are much greater then Ireland. North of Brazil to South of Brazil is about the same distance as Ireland to Poland! Thus the sleeper coaches.

Being in the coach station in Rio was truly impressive. I've never seen so many coaches in my life. Though what was noticeable was on average the very high quality of most coaches there, most looked expensive and very well maintained.

Thing about coaches there, it is a hyper competitive market. There are dozens of private companies operating the same routes. Don't like the quality of service from one company, choose another. This is why they all have such good coaches, lots of competition and you can really see how people benefit from that.

Again, I'm not saying that is suitable for Ireland. Different market, different size.

Stephen15 · 13-04-2018 4:14pm

The thing about Brazil and many other South American countries though is that intercity rail travel is pretty much non existent and air travel there remains extremely expensive due to the fact that no budget airlines have been allowed to take off and drive down prices. So there is a gap in the market for long distance intercity coaches. The competition in the bus market in Brazil is made up by the lack of it in the air travel sector.

Here in Europe Ryanair and other discount airlines have pretty much put a death to long distance intercity coaches which are only used by a minority compared to air or rail travel. It used to fairly common for people from Ireland to go England and on to Europe by bus before discount airlines.

bk · 13-04-2018 4:20pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

The thing about Brazil and many other South American countries though is that intercity rail travel is pretty much non existent and air travel there remains extremely expensive due to the fact that no budget airlines have been allowed to take off and drive down prices. So there is a gap in the market for long distance intercity coaches.

Yes, big time. People take coaches there over distances that we would normally fly nowadays.

Though budget airlines are starting to develop there, though it is still a long way behind here.

Dublin Coach Experience Discussion Thread

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