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The Dublin Coach Experience

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    #662
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    This post has been deleted.


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    #663
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Prisoner 6753 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    7 of them I believe.


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    #664
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    All LED on rear of those vanhools.


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    #665
    Tickityboo
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Tickityboo


    Prisoner 6753 wrote: »
    Is it leaning or was it the road surface?
    As for the lighting,chances are it was already blown when (if) the daily walk around check was done.

    The camber of the road.


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    #666
    Grandad99
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Grandad99


    WishUWereHere wrote: »

    I see there is now a flashing sign stating already 68 prosecutions have been issued.

    I am a user of the N7 / M7, travelling between J8 & J10 most days.

    I don’t know how many vehicles use this stretch of road each day but I would guess it is in the tens of thousands.

    In my experience the vast majority are doing way more than the 60 Kph limit, many totally ignoring it.

    68 prosecutions since the lower limit was introduced in early January works out at less than 1 a day.

    If they really want people to slow down, there should be a realistic speed limit and a real chance of being caught, as things stand you would want to be very unlucky.


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    #667
    bebeman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭bebeman


    This is a glimpse of the future, you wanted a NTA , well now you got it , warts and all.


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    #668
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Private companies will cut as many corners as they possibly can as at the end of it all they aren't there to serve but to make as much profits as they possibly can.


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    #669
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,598 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Private companies will cut as many corners as they possibly can as at the end of it all they aren't there to serve but to make as much profits as they possibly can.

    Some may, but most businesses are longer-sighted. They realise their business model is dependent on customer goodwill, and failure to deliver a quality service can destroy that business. Short-term profits at the expense of long-term business delivers little return to investors, It's in the interests of private companies to continue to improve their offering, be that on price, quality of service, or a combination of the two

    Equally it could be argued that there is not much incentive for the public sector to improve as they typically get bailed out by the taxpayer

    I'm not saying there is no role for either, but the blinkered approach within the public sector delivers little in the way of improvement without competition. Competition means providers need to try and offer a better service for the same price, or an equivalent service cheaper


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    #670
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Private companies will cut as many corners as they possibly can as at the end of it all they aren't there to serve but to make as much profits as they possibly can.

    Obviously Dublin Coach have their issues - but painting the whole private sector as being exactly the same couldn't be more wrong. I have worked in the private sector for most of my life and I can assure you that it's nowhere near as cut and dried as that.

    If a private sector business cuts too many corners it loses it's customers to the competition, so it has to provide a good standard of service or else it goes out of business. A public service monopoly doesn't have this problem as it will never be allowed to go out of business and will always have taxpayers money to bail it out.


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    #671
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    devnull wrote: »
    If a private sector business cuts too many corners it loses it's customers to the competition, so it has to provide a good standard of service or else it goes out of business. A public service monopoly doesn't have this problem as it will never be allowed to go out of business and will always have taxpayers money to bail it out.

    PSO routes will always be a monopoly. It's coming to the point where what was the CIE monopoly is becoming an NTA monopoly. I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing but it's a fact. If the GA tendered continue to lose money the NTA will continue to be subsidised by the taxpayer. No subsidies no service on most PSO routes bar a handful.

    The alternative to a monopoly in public transport is a British style deregulation of bus markets and that does not work as you probably know.


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    #672
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    bebeman wrote: »
    This is a glimpse of the future, you wanted a NTA , well now you got it , warts and all.

    NTA didn't decide the legislation that was used to set up bus licensing for it, it was done by the Department.
    There's nothing in the legislation unfortunately that allows consideration to be given to cases like the RSA took DC to court over, the legislation needs to change before the NTA can act on cases like this.


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    #673
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Nta is just a spin off of the department to create more high paying jobs.


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    #674
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Given how VASTLY better Aircoach, Citylink, GoBE/GoBus are then BE, I'll be forever grateful that the old times are behind us.

    I've always been of the opinion that it doesn't really make a difference if a service is operated by a private company or semi-state as long as their is competition.

    Once a company has a monopoly, whether private or public, they tend to get lazy, lack innovation, cut to many corners or get too expensive.

    Dublin Coach are a perfect example of this. On their Limerick routes they more or less have a monopoly and we see this happen. However then look at their Belfast route where they have lots of competition and you see they run a much better service, with new coaches, etc. Because they have to compete.

    The two direct competitors per route works extremely well on the Cork, Galway, Belfast (I know a bit different) routes, with Aircoach/GoBus/Citylink all keeping each other on their toes.

    I'm not sure what went wrong with the licensing on the Limerick route, lack of competition on that route definitely hurts it.

    But don't kid yourself, as a regular intercity bus traveller, I'd never want to go back to the bad old days of BE. Coach only every two hours, no coach after 6pm, no toilets, 4.5 hour journey to Cork! Terrible service.


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    #675
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Bk it's shocking how bad service has been and still is.

    Huge improvement but so much further to go.


    Public transportation should be fast and get people around much quicker.

    Look at the UK fast trains, I understand much bigger area to cover and much bigger population but people should be able to get from a to b so much quicker.


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    #676
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    This post has been deleted.


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    #677
    tabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    bk wrote: »

    Dublin Coach are a perfect example of this. On their Limerick routes they more or less have a monopoly and we see this happen.


    I'm not sure what went wrong with the licensing on the Limerick route, lack of competition on that route definitely hurts it.
    .

    Do the various Kavanagh operators (JJ or Pierce) not run to/from Limerick?


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    #678
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Prisoner 6753 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Going by what I saw at Patricks Quay on Saturday morning, all the coach companies are doing extremely well. The place was jam packed with well over a dozen double parked coaches!

    And yes Patricks Quay is not good enough, Cork needs a private coach station like Galway has.

    I was on GoBE that day and it was completely full, first time I've seen that! Plus it looked like they had a relief coach too! Of course all of that was likely the result of the Irish Rail works that weekend. But still the coach companies seem to be doing well there from what I can see going down every few weeks.

    No idea who is taking Dublin Coach, I assume it is mostly folks going Cork to Waterford or Waterford to Dublin. I assume no one is crazy to actually go Cork to Dublin by them!

    The company I don't see get much mention is Citylink and their Cork - Limerick - Galway route. I'm always impressed when I see the Citylink Vanhools on Patrick Quay, easily the best looking coach on the Quay and yet it most be one of their more marginal routes! It is a real pity they don't operate direct from Dublin to Cork and Limerick. They look to be a top quality operator.

    Cork still feels a bit immature compared to the Galway route, I think it still has a ways to go. But WAY better then 10 years ago and the mess that seems to exist in Limerick.

    BTW If you are a regular traveller to Cork, GoBE give every 11th trip free, which makes them cheaper then Aircoach.


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    #679
    tabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    Prisoner 6753 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Presumably people use it for different sections eg Dublin - Kilkenny, Kilkenny - Dungarvan, Waterford - Cork.

    Providing toilet breaks were facilitated, the scenic route might be nice for a tourist on a good summer day.


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    #680
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    tabbey wrote: »
    Do the various Kavanagh operators (JJ or Pierce) not run to/from Limerick?

    They operate a stopping service that takes about an hour longer then DC's more limited stop service (it isn't quite non stop like the Cork/Galway services, but not bad).

    There is also CityLinks EirEagle service that operates direct between Limerick and Dublin Airport. It doesn't stop at Dublin City.

    Point is non of these directly compete with Dublin Coaches core services in the way say Aircoach/GoBe do in Cork or Citylink/GoBus do in Galway, with pretty much the same service at a 30 minute gap between one another.


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    #681
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    The problem with these particular roadworks (as someone who drives that road daily myself), is the limit is imposed too early on the city-side and is artificially low for the current conditions - with minimal actual works happening on the main line most of the time, a limit of 80/90 would currently be more suitable.

    The result is that trying to stick to the 60.. or even 70ish.. is an extremely stressful and frustrating experience, added to by the other traffic shooting past and trying to get into your back seat (tailgating).

    It's taking far longer to do these works than it should but that apparently is down to how the contracts (more accurately payment installments for them) have been designed.

    How so? I did it fine on Monday. Other traffic blitzing by, it's their problem. not mine. Where's the stress in that? I just kept left.


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    #682
    dashcamdanny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    How so? I did it fine on Monday. Other traffic blitzing by, it's their problem. not mine. Where's the stress in that? I just kept left.

    yeah, same.

    I think they need to move it up to 80 and build some type of traffic calming measure .
    If the Garda was to put up a speed trap at the moment, at least 90% of folk travelling on that part would have penalty points by the end of the day.

    Its poor road design right now.


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    #683
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    dashcamdanny wrote: »
    yeah, same.

    I think they need to move it up to 80 and build some type of traffic calming measure .
    If the Garda was to put up a speed trap at the moment, at least 90% of folk travelling on that part would have penalty points by the end of the day.

    Its poor road design right now.

    Poor Design it certainly is,BUT...it is fully compliant with current Best-Practice in Irish administrative terms.

    Somewhere,buried in an office far from the site,sits a suitably well qualified Engineer,fully convinced that this site has NO issues.

    He/She,will move on from this,perhaps to greater things,and all the time without ever having to push at the boundaries of their accepted norms.

    Our national inability to be creative and proactive will continue to shine,as long as stuff like this remains unchallenged.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #684
    s14driftking
    Registered Users Posts: 646 ✭✭✭s14driftking


    Citywest inbound this evening. There fitters must have some nitemares keeping stuff running!!!


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    #685
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    s14driftking wrote: »
    Citywest inbound this evening. There fitters must have some nitemares keeping stuff running!!!

    Tow company is happy getting the business.


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    #686
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,502 ✭✭✭john boye


    You'd think they'd invest in a tow wagon of their own at this stage. Mind you that'd probably be forever breaking down too!


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    #687
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    This post has been deleted.


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    #688
    Drifter50
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Drifter50


    I have business in Knockmitten Lane every other day and it staggers me the number of carcases and skeletons of Dublin Coach buses left dumped all over the area. They seem to have 5/6 units in different parts of the industrial estate and outside each one are a collection of 10/15 year old buses most of which will never move again. There is a laneway with small industrial units on 1 side and whats on the other side? 12 out of service broken down buses. Why don`t the council serve proceedings and clean the place up. If I was a commercial ratepayer in the area I would be screaming at South Dublin Co Co. Incidentally one of the out of service vehicles is an ancient AEC Mandator recovery truck which won`t move again so I guess they have to use contractors recovery vehicles. Seems that most of these buses are the Neoplan double deckers and also several articulated units that are maybe ex airport. Also a couple of ancient London Transport Routemasters that I can`t imagine anyone wants to travel on.


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    #689
    XPS_Zero
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭XPS_Zero


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Private companies will cut as many corners as they possibly can as at the end of it all they aren't there to serve but to make as much profits as they possibly can.

    Have you had any experience with CIE? Are you gonna seriously tell me that a state monopoly with no competition and ultra secure contracts <MOD SNIP> have a better customer service ethos? I'd argue, even though many staff are fantastic as individuals, the organization overall doesn't have one - because thats the systemic structural problem they don't need to care.

    Totally public or totally private always end up the same way in public transport (whereas in say healthcare and education you can see a public private mix makes things much worse, as you can see with health in Ireland and education in the USA), see CIE for the former and see post British Rail for the latter. Which is why the experience has taught everyone in the developed world a hybrid model, such as the lUAS model the NTA is running, is the best option. Nobody said it has no flaws, but by god CIE certainly has it's flaws (how many times did they keep asking for that extra billion after getting it?)

    It's a very intellectually dishonest to compare an unregulated Dublin-Belfast route to the NTA model when they are not at all alike.

    To "they will just keep making as much money as they can" I could easily say of CIE type models "they'll keep going as deep into the red as they like knowing they don't have to be efficient or responsible or rational, because their boss, unlike in the private sector, can borrow (to a point) unlimited money and is the issuer of currency so why would they worry?"

    There are flaws in both fully private and fully public monopoly which is why the NTA model came about. Remember before all these changes Irish Rail were refusing to even put wifi on their trains, they were refusing an integrated smart card, any remotly progressive change and they were no no no no no no no

    All you need do as an answer to critique of the private companies is say two words: Bus Eireann.


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    #690
    Drifter50
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Drifter50


    I get your point that BE is far from an accomplished service provider. There are huge issues in the company but my experience is that there are lots of good honest employees doing what THEY consider is best. Yes I understand there are huge numbers of disgruntled and beleaguered employees but its not fair to make Bus Eireann the point of all anger. Clearly the end game is a public private partnership which should be a win win situation.

    I wonder have you ever taken a non urban bus in South America, might open your eyes to chaos..............


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    #691
    s14driftking
    Registered Users Posts: 646 ✭✭✭s14driftking


    Broke down in naas this morning

    Driver of this 181 driver should be fired and the guards cut up his licence. Flashing and blowing and hopping lanes like a lunatic from Samuel Beckett bridge to the port tunnel.this was yesterday evening.


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