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AIL 2020-2021
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how long back are you talking about that AIL developing prosStainalert wrote: »So are we developing 7's players to be good 7's players or 15's players? AIL has produced far more professional 15's players than the Irish 7's system.
We are only at the top level of 7s for a very short time. 7s can be a step to help develop better 15s players0 -
The Lost Sheep wrote: »how long back are you talking about that AIL developing pros
We are only at the top level of 7s for a very short time. 7s can be a step to help develop better 15s players
Any time span you care to choose. No disrespect to any of our sevens players because I have huge respect for them as players and their commitment to the cause is absolutely incredible but the provinces have not picked up one of them on a contract this season. There is no evidence to back up your claim that 7s is any better at developing 15s players that actual 15s rugby is - in fact any evidence there is points to the opposite. If you want a better 15s player let him focus on 15s.0 -
Can see a lot of players diving dual status giving that there’s only 9 ail games they’ll be able to give Ail a craic and be available for most games0
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Can see a lot of players diving dual status giving that there’s only 9 ail games they’ll be able to give Ail a craic and be available for most games
Not unless they've changed the rules. A club can only pick a dual status player if does not have anyone in that position available within the club. They have to appeal to the IRFU each week for the same player. The amount of dual status players in the AIL has dropped dramatically since the rule was tightened up0 -
then why have so many all blacks also played some level of 7s in the pro era if it's not as good at developing players then. It's an excellent tool to be used andStainalert wrote: »Any time span you care to choose. No disrespect to any of our sevens players because I have huge respect for them as players and their commitment to the cause is absolutely incredible but the provinces have not picked up one of them on a contract this season. There is no evidence to back up your claim that 7s is any better at developing 15s players that actual 15s rugby is - in fact any evidence there is points to the opposite. If you want a better 15s player let him focus on 15s.
there will still be the provincial leagues so good few games there as well. Might see more dual status but that's a big if.Can see a lot of players diving dual status giving that there’s only 9 ail games they’ll be able to give Ail a craic and be available for most games0 -
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The Lost Sheep wrote: »then why have so many all blacks also played some level of 7s in the pro era if it's not as good at developing players then. It's an excellent tool to be used and
Its not better than 15s and really only develops certain positions. How many leading half backs has sevens rugby produced ?0 -
Assume that academy tight five and most loose forwards will play with their clubs while the academy backs are off playing 7s. As the 7’s game is played at such pace, I suppose playing some 7s rugby may improve certain parts of a player’s game such as dexterity, balance and decision-making. Also, the 7’s tournaments look like their finishing on 17th October making it possible for academy players to play with their clubs over most of the rest of the season.0
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Five Eighth wrote: »Assume that academy tight five and most loose forwards will play with their clubs while the academy backs are off playing 7s. As the 7’s game is played at such pace, I suppose playing some 7s rugby may improve certain parts of a player’s game such as dexterity, balance and decision-making. Also, the 7’s tournaments look like their finishing on 17th October making it possible for academy players to play with their clubs over most of the rest of the season.
I’m probably gonna open a can of worms here which isn’t my intention it’s just my opinion really... I get that with what’s going on players will take any game time but I just don’t see many players been released all the time. From a Leinster point of view yeah u might release them if there club are up against another club same standard like nure tarf lansdowne etc been a standard they might be used to as far as academies go playing ail can’t see them been released if there side are playing a lower end team in the ail tho this season like usual 2a/2b teams. Don’t to disrespect any player in their position playing for that team I’m sure it’s experience to learn from going up against an academy player of decent standard but other than game time what do they get from it! It’s game time tho I guess it’s needed for them with the way this year and possibly season coming is going if a second wave comes and disrupts it even more0 -
In Leinster and Munster nearly all of the academy players are signed with 1A or 1B teams. Watched Corinthians play Blackrock last season in 2B. Corinthians had three academy players at full back, outhalf and hooker playing, Blackrock had none. Rock won. The Corinthian’s outhalf played well, the Connacht academy full-back and hooker were outshone by their opposite numbers on the Rock side. Academy forwards would certainly learn a thing or two playing in any of the AIL divisions other than maybe 2C.I’m probably gonna open a can of worms here which isn’t my intention it’s just my opinion really... I get that with what’s going on players will take any game time but I just don’t see many players been released all the time. From a Leinster point of view yeah u might release them if there club are up against another club same standard like nure tarf lansdowne etc been a standard they might be used to as far as academies go playing ail can’t see them been released if there side are playing a lower end team in the ail tho this season like usual 2a/2b teams. Don’t to disrespect any player in their position playing for that team I’m sure it’s experience to learn from going up against an academy player of decent standard but other than game time what do they get from it! It’s game time tho I guess it’s needed for them with the way this year and possibly season coming is going if a second wave comes and disrupts it even more0 -
Five Eighth wrote: »In Leinster and Munster nearly all of the academy players are signed with 1A or 1B teams. Watched Corinthians play Blackrock last season in 2B. Corinthians had three academy players at full back, outhalf and hooker playing, Blackrock had none. Rock won. The Corinthian’s outhalf played well, the Connacht academy full-back and hooker were outshone by their opposite numbers on the Rock side. Academy forwards would certainly learn a thing or two playing in any of the AIL divisions other than maybe 2C.
True regarding Connacht put how many clubs are in Connacht playing 1a/1b? Exactly!
Pretty much have no choice but to go to a club in a lower league coz there’s no Connacht based side fielding teams in division 1. I know a few seasons ago kerins went to cookies and there was uproar coz he didn’t stay within the province but wanted the game time experience in a higher league 🀷*♂️. I was more so speaking for the other 3 provinces really when I said that. Use Leinster one tho as an example. If ur an academy ur in a club that’s in any given competitive season usually in 1a and there due to travel to play a team in 2a/2b or 2c like skerries enniscorthy Tullamore etc just to use as example I just can’t see them been released by the branch as apposed to if there to play a team that’s usually another 1a club take that into account along with the point I made above that u don’t know if clubs will actually be competitive or not this season in it coz there’s no promo or regulation they could just field 2nds players against certain teams and use it to develop their squad for next season...0 -
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Of course academy players should, if possible, play at the highest AIL level. My point is that it is not the end of the world if they find themselves playing in a lower division. They will still learn some tricks of the trade, especially the forwards. By the way, you mention Skerries, Tullamore and Enniscorthy. They are all 2C teams. Divisions 2A and 2B have, amongst others, Ballymena, Blackrock, Buccaneers,True regarding Connacht put how many clubs are in Connacht playing 1a/1b? Exactly!
Pretty much have no choice but to go to a club in a lower league coz there’s no Connacht based side fielding teams in division 1. I know a few seasons ago kerins went to cookies and there was uproar coz he didn’t stay within the province but wanted the game time experience in a higher league 🀷*♂️. I was more so speaking for the other 3 provinces really when I said that. Use Leinster one tho as an example. If ur an academy ur in a club that’s in any given competitive season usually in 1a and there due to travel to play a team in 2a/2b or 2c like skerries enniscorthy Tullamore etc just to use as example I just can’t see them been released by the branch as apposed to if there to play a team that’s usually another 1a club take that into account along with the point I made above that u don’t know if clubs will actually be competitive or not this season in it coz there’s no promo or regulation they could just field 2nds players against certain teams and use it to develop their squad for next season...
Dungannon, Greystones and Wanderers. I'm sure that any academy player would learn a lot playing with one of those sides.0 -
Five Eighth wrote: »Of course academy players should, if possible, play at the highest AIL level. My point is that it is not the end of the world if they find themselves playing in a lower division. They will still learn some tricks of the trade, especially the forwards. By the way, you mention Skerries, Tullamore and Enniscorthy. They are all 2C teams. Divisions 2A and 2B have, amongst others, Ballymena, Blackrock, Buccaneers,
Dungannon, Greystones and Wanderers. I'm sure that any academy player would learn a lot playing with one of those sides.
If u read it correctly I would have mentioned 2a/2b or 2c and then listed out Tullamore skerries enniscorthy as example I never said what league there in I just was sung them as a point of reference given there the first names that popped into my head regarding clubs that play lower leagues but are in the Leinster conference. Look I think any academy player would take any game time at this rather even if it’s not to the standard their used to I just don’t think some provinces would release them for “Lower league team games” if u wanna call it that without sounding to disrespectful to any in 2a/2b/2c and rather release them for the games against bigger clubs put look u just have to wait and see how the season plans out but that’s my thinking. And let’s not even forgot Irfu could easily do an interpro Series again for the A’s if they wanted can’t rule that out either even tho I’m against it and for the club game...0 -
Stainalert wrote: »
Not unless they've changed the rules. A club can only pick a dual status player if does not have anyone in that position available within the club. They have to appeal to the IRFU each week for the same player. The amount of dual status players in the AIL has dropped dramatically since the rule was tightened up
Clubs can make a case for dual players any week not as if irfu is going to come out and make sure no other players are available. In regards to the appeal I was working closely with a club last year and it was just to the branch you had to appeal to and they seemed to be very co-operative more times rather than not, my point was that the max games a player on dual can play is 6 games for ail and 6 for junior the point being that if there’s only 9 ail games it’s incentivises the junior player to play more so than the usual season. Also know for a fact that some of the players mentioned on this thread that signed for junior clubs This offseason are signed on dual status0 -
Stainalert wrote: »
Not unless they've changed the rules. A club can only pick a dual status player if does not have anyone in that position available within the club. They have to appeal to the IRFU each week for the same player. The amount of dual status players in the AIL has dropped dramatically since the rule was tightened up
Not really that strict at all was working closely with a lower league ail club last year that had multiple dual status players and was worked as junior club had first pick but alll we had to do was notify the branch not irfu early in the week and give reasoning mostly made up or blown out of proportion (needs or what not) but branch seemed to be cooperative more times than not. Anyway original point was just that cause dual players can only play 6 games for both sides there would be more incentive for junior players to give it a craic this year seeing as there’s only 9 ail games. Could play all regional games with junior club then enjoy a good ail season after chrtismas.. also know for a fact that some signings for junior clubs mentioned above in this thread are on dual status for the coming season.. there’s more than you’d think, a lot of big name players in junior clubs will sign dual if the money is right but ail clubs a lot of the time aren’t willing to match the junior clubs0 -
Just wondering does anyone know if the clubs were involved in the IRFU decision regarding the upcoming club season? I guess the provincial Conferences allow a degree of safety and a lower cost base for the clubs for the first part of the season. On the other hand, with no promotion or relegation, the season could be a damp squib. It’s hard to get excited about a season when the winners of 1A only play half an AIL season and in every other division the winners cannot progress to the next level. Ireland is a small country and, assuming that we don't have a second wave of Covid-19, surely by late October a full AIL season could begin?0
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Two Leinster League divisions. Split by position in AIL last season
Group 1 -
UCD, Lansdowne, Terenure, Clontarf, Trinity, Wesley, Belvo, Marys,Naas
Group 2
Navan, MU Barnhall, Malahide, wanderers, Blackrock, Greystones, Enniscorthy, Skerries, Tullamore
The J2s of each side to play on same day. Metro 1-3 gone for the season. 8 Fixtures, play everyone once.
Top in each division goes into All Ireland, 2nd goes into an All Ireland plate0 -
Chico Flores wrote: »Two Leinster League divisions. Split by position in AIL last season
Group 1 -
UCD, Lansdowne, Terenure, Clontarf, Trinity, Wesley, Belvo, Marys,Naas
Group 2
Navan, MU Barnhall, Malahide, wanderers, Blackrock, Greystones, Enniscorthy, Skerries, Tullamore
The J2s of each side to play on same day. Metro 1-3 gone for the season. 8 Fixtures, play everyone once.
Top in each division goes into All Ireland, 2nd goes into an All Ireland plate
Hold on... say that again? Metro leagues 1 to 3 are scrapped for the 20/21 season?
So given most of them clubs would have a j1 side in metro 1 and probably there j2s team entered in a metro 2 or metro 3 league your saying instead the j1 teams will have games against the clubs j1 team the same day their seniors play them? Great but what happens to j2s then?
Organise friendlies for the entire season or what? I know it’s probably not the thread to ask u on this lol given there a separate thread for social rugby but I’d be interested to know given u brought it up here lol.0 -
Only going off what was sent in a what’s app there. No idea.Hold on... say that again? Metro leagues 1 to 3 are scrapped for the 20/21 season?
So given most of them clubs would have a j1 side in metro 1 and probably there j2s team entered in a metro 2 or metro 3 league your saying instead the j1 teams will have games against the clubs j1 team the same day their seniors play them? Great but what happens to j2s then?
Organise friendlies for the entire season or what? I know it’s probably not the thread to ask u on this lol given there a separate thread for social rugby but I’d be interested to know given u brought it up here lol.
So our 2s (Terenure will play just say Naas 2s) on same day as our game. Less of an issue in the top division I assume the 2nd division will have some mismatches. Certainly Barnhall and Navan would fancy their chances to top that.
Just said in text that no metro 1-3 and this will be addressed pushing forward. Like I am planning on going back playing (Metro 6 for the win) but not if i end up playing Wesley 2s or 3s - or a mix.0 -
Chico Flores wrote: »Only going off what was sent in a what’s app there. No idea.
So our 2s (Terenure will play just say Naas 2s) on same day as our game. Less of an issue in the top division I assume the 2nd division will have some mismatches. Certainly Barnhall and Navan would fancy their chances to top that.
Just said in text that no metro 1-3 and this will be addressed pushing forward. Like I am planning on going back playing (Metro 6 for the win) but not if i end up playing Wesley 2s or 3s - or a mix.
Yeah that’s interesting to know as I haven’t gotten much of a word out of my club yet regarding up coming fixtures u20 and junior wise only seen what there doing to the ail side that’s it. Yeah that’s interesting to know as I know with my club they have 1sts in ail 1a, 2nds in metro 1 and j2 in metro 2 and j3 in metro 5. So ultimately if there’s no metro 2 and with the j1s going to play nure tarf etc 2nds on the same day as the firsts (like the used to in the preseason of the Leinster league cup comp) then it’s interesting how they will sort the j2 squad with games0 -
Yeah that’s interesting to know as I haven’t gotten much of a word out of my club yet regarding up coming fixtures u20 and junior wise only seen what there doing to the ail side that’s it. Yeah that’s interesting to know as I know with my club they have 1sts in ail 1a, 2nds in metro 1 and j2 in metro 2 and j3 in metro 5. So ultimately if there’s no metro 2 and with the j1s going to play nure tarf etc 2nds on the same day as the firsts (like the used to in the preseason of the Leinster league cup comp) then it’s interesting how they will sort the j2 squad with games
No idea - in a sense does Metro 3 become Metro 1 effectively and scale from there?0 -
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Chico Flores wrote: »No idea - in a sense does Metro 3 become Metro 1 effectively and scale from there?
Yeah no idea either first I heard of it be interesting to see though0 -
assume you mean j1s not j2s.could be interesting if all play same day division 2 would be uneven enough with spread of divisions of the 2nds sidesChico Flores wrote: »Two Leinster League divisions. Split by position in AIL last season
Group 1 -
UCD, Lansdowne, Terenure, Clontarf, Trinity, Wesley, Belvo, Marys,Naas
Group 2
Navan, MU Barnhall, Malahide, wanderers, Blackrock, Greystones, Enniscorthy, Skerries, Tullamore
The J2s of each side to play on same day. Metro 1-3 gone for the season. 8 Fixtures, play everyone once.
Top in each division goes into All Ireland, 2nd goes into an All Ireland plate
big shake up for season. All bar the universities have their 3rds also in the j1 regs divisions 1 to 3. Could just see a one off shake up to lower divisionsHold on... say that again? Metro leagues 1 to 3 are scrapped for the 20/21 season?
So given most of them clubs would have a j1 side in metro 1 and probably there j2s team entered in a metro 2 or metro 3 league your saying instead the j1 teams will have games against the clubs j1 team the same day their seniors play them? Great but what happens to j2s then?
Organise friendlies for the entire season or what? I know it’s probably not the thread to ask u on this lol given there a separate thread for social rugby but I’d be interested to know given u brought it up here lol.
navan did well to up to 1B but struggled this season. Wouldnt be so sure that they would fancy their chances in this level for the season. 2nds of the division 2 teams range from a division 1 side(metro league) to mainly division 2 to 1 division 4.Chico Flores wrote: »Only going off what was sent in a what’s app there. No idea.
So our 2s (Terenure will play just say Naas 2s) on same day as our game. Less of an issue in the top division I assume the 2nd division will have some mismatches. Certainly Barnhall and Navan would fancy their chances to top that.
Just said in text that no metro 1-3 and this will be addressed pushing forward. Like I am planning on going back playing (Metro 6 for the win) but not if i end up playing Wesley 2s or 3s - or a mix.
wouldnt say that. Could see a total revamp for the season if they're doing this proposed changeChico Flores wrote: »No idea - in a sense does Metro 3 become Metro 1 effectively and scale from there?0 -
J1s playing on the same day I imagine not J2. Good idea to trial and could help build more for attending games if you could do that more often. For all Ireland leagues could only work down as far as thirds in some divisions.Chico Flores wrote: »Two Leinster League divisions. Split by position in AIL last season
Group 1 -
UCD, Lansdowne, Terenure, Clontarf, Trinity, Wesley, Belvo, Marys,Naas
Group 2
Navan, MU Barnhall, Malahide, wanderers, Blackrock, Greystones, Enniscorthy, Skerries, Tullamore
The J2s of each side to play on same day. Metro 1-3 gone for the season. 8 Fixtures, play everyone once.
Top in each division goes into All Ireland, 2nd goes into an All Ireland plate
3 1A sides have 3rds in the top 3 divisions another 2 clubs have their 2nds and 3rds in top 3 divisions. If this was to happen just create new league for the season and then go back to normal in 21/22 season?Hold on... say that again? Metro leagues 1 to 3 are scrapped for the 20/21 season?
So given most of them clubs would have a j1 side in metro 1 and probably there j2s team entered in a metro 2 or metro 3 league your saying instead the j1 teams will have games against the clubs j1 team the same day their seniors play them? Great but what happens to j2s then?
Organise friendlies for the entire season or what? I know it’s probably not the thread to ask u on this lol given there a separate thread for social rugby but I’d be interested to know given u brought it up here lol.
wouldnt be so sure on navan and barnhall fancying their chances yes they're both 2A sides and barnhall did very well last season but navan struggled in 1B and really are more suited to 2A for nowChico Flores wrote: »Only going off what was sent in a what’s app there. No idea.
So our 2s (Terenure will play just say Naas 2s) on same day as our game. Less of an issue in the top division I assume the 2nd division will have some mismatches. Certainly Barnhall and Navan would fancy their chances to top that.
Just said in text that no metro 1-3 and this will be addressed pushing forward. Like I am planning on going back playing (Metro 6 for the win) but not if i end up playing Wesley 2s or 3s - or a mix.
Wouldnt see you playing Wesley 2s or 3s if back playing metro 6 regardless of what happebs
will be quite a while for 20s and junior/age grade I guess as so much up for grabs and easier to sort out what to do with first teamYeah that’s interesting to know as I haven’t gotten much of a word out of my club yet regarding up coming fixtures u20 and junior wise only seen what there doing to the ail side that’s it. Yeah that’s interesting to know as I know with my club they have 1sts in ail 1a, 2nds in metro 1 and j2 in metro 2 and j3 in metro 5. So ultimately if there’s no metro 2 and with the j1s going to play nure tarf etc 2nds on the same day as the firsts (like the used to in the preseason of the Leinster league cup comp) then it’s interesting how they will sort the j2 squad with games
wouldnt say so. Whole structure of meteorology could be adapted for the season?Chico Flores wrote: »No idea - in a sense does Metro 3 become Metro 1 effectively and scale from there?0 -
The Lost Sheep wrote: »assume you mean j1s not j2s.could be interesting if all play same day division 2 would be uneven enough with spread of divisions of the 2nds sides
big shake up for season. All bar the universities have their 3rds also in the j1 regs divisions 1 to 3. Could just see a one off shake up to lower divisions
navan did well to up to 1B but struggled this season. Wouldnt be so sure that they would fancy their chances in this level for the season. 2nds of the division 2 teams range from a division 1 side(metro league) to mainly division 2 to 1 division 4.
wouldnt say that. Could see a total revamp for the season if they're doing this proposed change
Sorry did mean J1s
Lansdowne J1s - Metro 1. J2 - Metro 2. J3s - Metro 5
UCD - J1s - Metro 1. J2s- Metro 3. J3 - Metro 7
Terenure J1s - Metro 1. J2s - Metro 3. J3s - Metro 6
Tarf J1s - Metro 1. J2s - Metro 2. J3 - Metro 5
Trinity J1s- Metro 1. J2 - Metro 6
Wesley - J1s Metro 1. J2s - Metro 2. J3s Metro 4
Belvo - J1 Metro 1. J2s Metro 3. J3s Metro 5
Marys J1s Metro 1. J2s. Metro 3. J3s. Metro 5
Naas. J1s - Metro 2. J2s - Metro 4
Navan J1s- Metro 3
MU Barnhall J1s - Metro 2. J2- Metro 4. J3s -Metro 6
Wanderers - J1s Metro 3. J2s Metro 5
Malahide J1s Metro 3
Blackrock J1s- Metro 2.
Enniscorthy, Skerries and Tullamore J1s all Metro 3
In that 2nd division there is certainly on paper a massive gap between a Tullamore and a Navan, Barnhall etc0 -
The Lost Sheep wrote: »
wouldnt be so sure on navan and barnhall fancying their chances yes they're both 2A sides and barnhall did very well last season but navan struggled in 1B and really are more suited to 2A for now
Haven’t Barnhall only lost like 2 games in two seasons and were 4/5 points clear at the top of 2A last year. However it plays out, surely any side who was even playing in 1B or top 2A would certainly fancy their chances, to on the whole beat sides in 2B and 2C More often that not.
I don’t know, you might see a different playing out - if the Metro 1 sides, who usually play on a Sunday are now out on Saturdays, there will be some changes in playing personnel. I can see some lads, playing down the leagues to avoid having to travel too far etc. Albeit, all of Group 1 is in Dublin, so maybe its all moot.
Regardless, bar division 1A and the top teams, which hopefully we will be pushing for. The majority of the season will be fairly meaningless for most teams, who no promotion and relegation.0 -
3 1A sides have 3rds in the top 3 divisions another 2 clubs have their 2nds and 3rds in top 3 divisions. If this was to happen just create new league for the season and then go back to normal in 21/22 season?[/QUOTE]
What would u suggest as the new league format then if this was the case for the coming season? Surely not gonna have all teams from each division (1-3) into the one league. Probably cant happen anyways because as you say some clubs field teams in metro 1, 2 and 3 so effectively if that was to happen some clubs would have 2/3 teams in that league lol.0 -
not too sure. All teams in one league with conferences and set up so teams from same club are not in same group and then a wider range of playoffs or a second league then based on first phase league results but hard to find something that works.What would u suggest as the new league format then if this was the case for the coming season? Surely not gonna have all teams from each division (1-3) into the one league. Probably cant happen anyways because as you say some clubs field teams in metro 1, 2 and 3 so effectively if that was to happen some clubs would have 2/3 teams in that league lol.0 -
Well there isn't any team fielding in Metro 1-2-3, as in all 3.
But most have 2 as above.
No one in Group 2 has two teams in that category0 -
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