College Green Plaza -- public consultation open

Have any drawings been circulated in advance, for consultation ?

It strikes me that its probably worth a small table of progress on various things

1) Plaza - to ABP
2) Liffey Cycleway - traffic subcommittee ?
3) BXD traffic impacts - recently amended to let private cars down Eden Quay but still no right turn on to OCB watch this space over the summer

how do you cycle from one side to the other - get off and walk seems to be the implication from the pics, though the article says there will be a defined cycle route though the plaza.

Interesting the buses are not using the Dubliin Bus livery. Although they also say Transport21 on them, so were probably pulled from some ancient model archive for the mockups.

I really don't like the trees on the south side, they just seem sort of randomly placed and they block the view of the architecture(the old Ulster Bank building is lovely).

And of course the BoI building should be opened up somehow, but maybe that will happen.

As a cyclist, I'd be happy if this plaza banned cycling IF the quays cycle routes are improved.

HivemindXX wrote: »

There seems to be a movement to not allow cycling across this. Get off and walk is the solution. This is fine in my opinion, after all there are plenty of other places where cycling is not allowed in the city, but they need to be clear about this. Don't say that it is a cycle route when you know it is not and don't direct cyclists up to the plaza and then expect them to get off to cross it.

If there is to be no cycling in the plaza then the cycle route should follow the Luas around College Green. Anyone who wishes to get off the cycle route and cross the plaza can do so walking their bikes.

Look at the last photo above. The cycle track is clearly along the line of trees. The council have always said a east west cycle track would be incorporated into the design. You're getting your knickers in a twist over something that is not an issue.

I quite like the design apart from the grayness of it. I was hoping the paving would be a little more adventurous and have some colour in it. Decent design overall though.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water-jets-benches-and-cycle-paths-plans-for-college-green-revealed-35691436.html

the Indo link above has a little video to show it off

cherryghost wrote: »

If I recall some time ago Parliament Street was proposed to carry 2 way traffic to allow southbound buses to cross the river

Read the Irish Times article and my post again.

It says that proposal has been dropped.

cherryghost wrote: »

Whoops sorry, case of a melted head here. There's no other real alternatives on Dame St/Lord Edward St so I'd imagine it'll be further back up the road?!

That either means virtually no buses serving George's St or a massive diversion.

pclive wrote: »

The times article is incorrect It is now proposed that only south bound buses will use Parliament Street
Northbound buses will use Winetavern Street

That's some serious detour.

KD345 wrote: »

Do you have a link to the details?

This is outrageous and would cripple cross city bus routes.

It's irrelevant...the core of this bizzarre stuff is the continued,and absolute power of the Multi Storey Car Park Lobby over Dublin City Council.

Just as some within DCC's HQ have,rather suddenly,become concerned at whether clearing the tarmac infill from the Tram Tracks in advance of trials,we are now faced with a mad rush to cobble some Dali-esque compromise together before BXD opens for business.

It does'nt matter whether it's a feasible,safe or long-term solution,as long as something is there for the opening day.

The current crowd of Planning Charlatans were very familiar with the good advice given to them,free-of-charge by Manuel Melis,the overseer of the Madrid Metro extension,but they chose to disregard it,in favour of their massive self belief that they knew better.......

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/why-madrid-can-put-dublin-back-on-track-1.366776

"In Paris at the beginning of the century they built the metro from foundations to opening in 20 months. They had no plant and machinery. Why do consultants tell us that now, 100 years later, it should take five or six years?" Melis told us in Dublin.

His strong message is that the people, politicians and ultimately Government must own and control the project - and be decisive - "or you are lost".

And the metro's director of projects and works, Ildefonso de Matias Jimenez, who also visited Dublin, sounded as if he had been reading Garret FitzGerald. "Really your Luas is a toy train more or less" that will have the same problems with the traffic that the buses have now. The best he could say was that the Luas would be "a help".

These men believe Dublin's emphasis should be on an underground as the basis for an entirely integrated bus, mainline and DART network with common ticketing, as in Madrid. de Matias even suggests a further metro line along the Liffey.

NOBODY..least of all Dubliners..."Own" any of the Luas projects....BXD is less than 6 months from tram movements,and yet Dublin's Leadership has not a clue as to where it is going to put Buses or any other form of sustainable transport..BUT the same lads are TOTALLY clear that access will continue to be maintained to ALL of the existing Multi-Storey "facilities".

Perhaps our Brightest & Best might have looked a bit closer at some of the preparation that might have come in handy before sending Prof Melis back to Madrid...

Then there is the difference between the Common Law approach to property, which we inherited from the British, and Roman and Napoleonic law, which the Spaniards inherited. Here, we own our land to the centre of the earth and can be compensated royally. In Spain, after a gap of 10 metres deep, 20 metres is reserved for public facilities such as metros. Below that it's yours, for what it's worth.

It's more than obvious,given the codology that is now in full spate with BXD,that few living Irish People will live to see anything like a Metro,unless the emigrate.....

Most Dublin costs are at least twice those in Madrid. "Dublin's problem is you are growing so fast," said Melis. Materials and other costs are higher and rising, he says.

But he has mentioned figures as low as €1.5 billion and only as high as €2.6 billion to build a mere 12 kilometres in Dublin, whereas Madrid has just completed its new 40.5 kilometres for just over €2 billion.

The main savings they see to be made on the "extremely shocking" estimates for Dublin are nearly all about time. Twenty-four hour continuous tunnelling saves machinery and other costs. And "cut and cover" standard-design stations can be built above ground and lowered into spaces dug for them.

24 Hour continuous tunnelling..... Is this fella crazy or what !!!!! :eek:

trellheim wrote: »

Does this proposal increase the volume of buses at Bachelors walk turning left onto OCS ? Unless I am missing something its turning the bus stop at bachelors walk into utter chaos, given the bus gate etc.

From my rough calculations this change will see approx 190 additional Dublin Bus buses come on to Bachelors Walk between 6-10am (routes 9, 16, 65/b, 68/a, 83/a and 122 from George's Street corridor and routes 13, 27, 40, 56a, 77a, 123 and 747 from Christchurch junction).

Just to highlight this increase, below are all the Dublin Bus routes that are now planned to pull in, pick up and operate through Bachelors Walk: 9, 13, 16, 25/a/b/d/x, 26, 27, 37, 39/a, 40, 51d/x, 56a, 65/b, 66/a/b/x, 67/x, 68/a/x, 69/x, 70, 77a, 90, 122, 123, 145, 151 and 747.

Out of the above list, routes 9, 13, 16, 40, 122, 123 and 747 (high frequency routes) will all be turning left from Bachelors Walk onto O'Connell Street. I presume this means they will now compete with private cars for space in that one small lane which allows motorists turn left to O'Connell Street or proceed straight ahead to Eden Quay.

Despite these College Green changes affecting thousands of bus passengers, I could find nothing published today which informs commuters on how their route is affected. They did however manage to reveal there would be 32 individual water jets built into to plaza, which, I supppse is something to cool us down while we search for where our bus route has been moved to.