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Engagement Ring - FACTS, not fiction
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@ Unwilling
The cost versus result conundrum is up to you and your partner. Go forth and do the right thing for you
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Intothesea
But that is easier said than done. I am just so afraid of buying this beautiful ring and finding out that if I'd have waited a month I'd have found it on line, or in Dubai, or in South Africa for cheaper!!
It's not that we don't have the money, it's that I want VALUE for my money.
Just cause I have it doesn't mean I want to spend 5k on something I could get elsewhere for 3k!
Why also is having a CERT so important... if you buy from a well known reputable jeweler who make their own rings... is their in house certification not sufficient!?0 -
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@ Unwilling
It's not that we don't have the money, it's that I want VALUE for my money.
Just cause I have it doesn't mean I want to spend 5k on something I could get elsewhere for 3k!
The options are there to make a saving as long as you can tolerate the relative risk for the results.
Keep in mind that the further you go to make a saving, the more you shake up local concerns and their cartel-style pricing schemes. In this sense buying abroad or online is a small step towards forcing local retailers to cut the 200 to 300% margins on average (by this I mean not particularly high-end spec) jewellery. Seeking value for money deflates the cash balloon for all the other engagement couples arriving in your wake. Well worth the effort if you care about retail condition in Ireland as well as getting a good deal
Apologies if you happen to work in jewellery sales -- I can't tow a line to suit anyone there :pac: 0 -
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Why also is having a CERT so important... if you buy from a well known reputable jeweler who make their own rings... is their in house certification not sufficient!?
Sorry for the delay with this. In-house certification is a bigger issue with on-line sales entities, on the basis that a misrepresented stone is much harder to send back and have addressed (i.e. a swindling online outfit probably won't even acknowledge your queries when you realise the 'mistake'). This is why only well-known online vendors are to be trusted. With bricks-and-mortar reputable shops there's always the option to walk back in after the appraisal and bring up your concerns (or insist on a stone-switch etc.), so the in-house certification is not so big a deal in that case. Hope that answers the question!
@ An rí: let's hope a sudden wakening would mean dopey-headedness in either case 0 -
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Hello there. I don't know of any jewellers off hand who offer this, though it seems to be quite common online probably only as a sweetener for online purchasing. Your best bet is to ring a few jewellers you're interested in and ask. Look out for your local independent jewellers' terms and conditions. The chances are that a remote prospective buyer will be told of less options than someone in the shop with chosen ring and a credit card If you're interested in negotiating a better price there's also a good chance that payment plan options will disappear. For this reason I'd go the credit union/bank route and shop with the advantage of having substantial cash in hand -- discounts are easier to approach then. HTH 0
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Don't panic!! If you're compelled to buy a ring after trying it on it usually is the right purchase. It might just take some time to get used to a permanent piece of symbolic jewellery if you had no rings beforehand. If your issue is with the ring itself (doesn't suit, wrong stones, wrong shape), I'm sure your jeweller will do whatever he can to sort it out for you in the shape of an exchange at least. How about giving it another week of constant wearing and thinking about your next move then? The best of luck 0
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Because your jeweller didn't specifically make the ring for you there's every chance that a return is doable. A full refund is probably off the cards though, according to:
http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Print-versions-of-guides/NCA-shopping-guide.html
From this a full refund is only enforceable when an item is defective. But as jewellers I'm sure they've had to swap rings out for the suddenly dissatisfied many times before Technically they probably don't have any duty to refund the difference on a cheaper ring but this is one area where your personal connection with the jeweller might literally pay off (for once )
Having a new ring made up that's closer to the total you paid originally is also a good option, but still probably dependent on the whims of your jeweller. Moving from VS to SI1 won't present any difference to your eyes if the stones are well-chosen, which you can count on. The best of luck with the new deal!0 -
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hi there - wow this has been a long but very educational 22 pages
anyway i just wanted to get some advice if i can. we went looking for ''el ring'' for the first time yesterday. i had seen a few i liked the shape of online and went into a few shops in galway.
i got a much better idea of what i don't like, but the main problem i had is that i have quite big fingers and none, NOT ONE of the rings i did try on would fit over the knuckle of my ring finger. it's so hard to get an idea of what something i would wear for the rest of my life would look like when it's precariously balanced on my little fingernail
does anyone have any idea how to get round this for the next time we go looking??
also - i did see one i liked. i don't really like the traditional narrow band and diamond thing and would prefer just one ring intead of a diamond and wedding ring so was thinking along the lines of this: [not in that shop, mind but it's the same ring in white gold] but it was ooh - about €2,000 over our budget!:(
my question is - can i just bring a photo of this to a jeweller/designer and say ''make me this within my budget''? obviously i would be comprimising on the quality of the diamonds, but how do i know what the diamonds will look like before i comission it and see it finished?? does anyone have any advice on who i could seek out to talk to about making such a ring and could a designer give me a ball park figure just by looking at a photo?? any help or advice much appreciated!!!0 -
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my question is - can i just bring a photo of this to a jeweller/designer and say ''make me this within my budget''? obviously i would be comprimising on the quality of the diamonds, but how do i know what the diamonds will look like before i comission it and see it finished?? does anyone have any advice on who i could seek out to talk to about making such a ring and could a designer give me a ball park figure just by looking at a photo?? any help or advice much appreciated!!!
Hello there. You can take any inspiration you like into a goldsmith/independent jeweller and ask for ideas on what's possible and for how much
Here's a list of goldsmiths in Ireland:
http://www.localpages.ie/category.aspx?category=Silversmiths%20%26%20Goldsmiths
When asking for a quote you can specify the kind of cut, colour and clarity you'd like your diamonds to have, as well as okay them before the project is started. You can lay out your expectations for communication etc. and see how they're received before committing to the deal, nae worries The ring you have in mind there is fairly unusual and quite a bit of work to build compared to a standard solitaire type. There's a very good chance that you'll beat the quoted price, but maybe not by a huge amount -- all you can do is price away and survey the results. Best of luck! 0 -
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Hello there. A new evaluation is all you need for insurance coverage. There are two types of valuation service: the unusual where a set charge is paid per piece (as here: http://www.dublinjewelleryvaluations.ie/) and here: http://www.jewelleryvaluationsireland.ie/jewellers/) and the standard, where a set price is added to a percentage of the estimated value (typical in most jewellers). Check with the valuer beforehand that the report will be suitable for your particular insurance brokerage. 0
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ironmonkey wrote: »
After a long winded intro where do recommend to get the ring rebuilt, will it be possible to get the original shank replicated and if so would you recommend platinum as stronger than white gold?
Hello there. Not sure if you've had any word on this but if the repaired prong is bothering you you can take it to an independent jeweller or jewellery repair centre (as here: http://www.fastfix.com/locations/ireland.htm) for inspection. If there is no air-gap between stone and prong (check with a 10X loupe); and if the prong is the same metal type as the shank; and you can't see any obvious joins or blobs of solder or generally messy finishing work, it's most likely a-OK In general platinum is a much denser and tougher metal than gold, but tends not to be such a bright shiny white as white gold. You would have to find a willing gold/platinum-smith to approach the re-make. Here's a starting list of goldsmiths in Ireland:
http://www.localpages.ie/category.aspx?category=Silversmiths%20%26%20Goldsmiths0 -
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Hello there. In the second post on this page: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055031792&page=19 there's an example calculation for import tax and VAT. It might still be worth doing depending on what you stand to save. Importing directly from Antwerp is do-able without paying any further VAT at least. Of the board-accredited jewelers there, this one: http://www.diamondlandselection.com/rings has finished, photographed pieces for sale. You could ask the rest (http://www.adja.be/frammembers.htm) for pictures and descriptions and work from there.
It's probably not that safe to use the opposite hand measurement to get it exactly right. Some people can differ by up to 1 - 1.5 sizes between hands -- so if you're going for a more complex setting (one with diamonds on the shoulders etc.) you should probably try to get it exact. If the setting is plain (i.e. solitaire) you can get away with far more; you can ask the jeweller what he thinks the limitations are for sizing up and down and if it's within 1 or two sizes, you could use the right-hand measurement. Anyway HTH 0 -
Right, I've got all the other aspects of the grand proposal plan in motion....now it's time to sort out the ring
Intothesea, keyes and Fey - thanks much for all the incredibly helpful input into this thread - it's really helped me get my head around (at least a little) what is a pretty complex subject!
First question for me is whether or not to have the ring purchased and with me at the time of the proposal, or do I go with a temporary ring and then purchase together?
I've no inkling of what her preferences are, though any jewellery I've bought for down through the years has been very well received so I generally do a decent job on her tastes, though she's likely to have particular preferences in mind for her engagement ring. Would running it by her sister be a smart move or generally a no-no? I have another female friend I can talk to get the female view without risking anything leaking, though I'm all ears for thoughts.
I'm liking the idea of purchasing from either BlueNile or VoltaireDiamonds - the BlueNile returns policy makes me almost think that there's very little to lose by purchasing it to have on the day and if she doesn't like it, just send it back at no loss. Or am I missing something on that? If I send it back, can I get the same diamond taken off that ring and mounted on another setting? I'd just chance it by sizing one of her rings from her drawer and using that, again on the basis that if it doesn't work out, we can change or get resized.
If we're to get the real ring after the proposal, it'd be less romantic to sit there browsing the web for it, though I still wouldn't rule it out if she likes the idea, and it'd help inform us for price range expectations/negotiations etc.
So, I've a budget of €5k-€7k in mind. I'm not interested in hearing comments on whether I should or shouldn't spend that much: she wouldn't expect that much but thankfully I'm in a position to afford it and I just love the idea of bowling her over with a great ring that she'll stare at forever.
Just as a first step, I selected this diamond and with a fairly standard platinum setting (£750), it comes to €6.5k inc VAT (£5.6k). It's 0.95 carat, Ideal cut, VS2 clarity, and its colour is F.
I think a round stone might be best as it will allow flexibility in mounting. I defintely don't want any visible inclusions (once its mounted at least), but would it be a better idea to go with a SI1 and ask for BlueNile gemologist to pick one that has no inclusions visible to the eye?
I selected F colour as it's supposed to be the first of the colourless options - smart move or would G be better?
0.95 carat doesn't sound that big for that kind of money so maybe I've overspecced it, I do want it to have instant wow factor so appreciate any pointers. Thanks.0 -
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Rutigur, it sounds like you're off to a very good start with all this If you keep the cut to Signature Ideal it's possible to bring the colour to G (or maybe even to H if you have a sense of your girlfriend's colour-sensitivity in stones) -- a great cut mounted, as you say, will look untinted. The other issue is that BN's gemologists can only assess the signature ideal stones, as the rest are 'drop shipped' (i.e. only owned on paper). With the return period I would try to score a signature ideal or ideal (discarding possibilities with HCA test and consulting gemologists), G, VS2 (for ideal) and SI1 for signature ideal. Or you could take a chance on a HCA-tested ideal G or H SI1 (you could throw the stones up here for some ideas on how the inclusions might work out in real life, though in all actuality, there's no way to 100% predict the effect they might have).
As for when the 'wow' factor kicks in (in Dublin) these days, I think it may be the 1 to 1.2 carat mark. The other determining factor is the size of your girlfriend's fingers, for ratio. You're right to keep the setting simple as BN are willing to swap out a stone if you're not happy with it within 30 days. If you decide to do a gemologist evaluation of SI1s, ring the Irish HQ and ask for a comparison, tell them what your criteria are for eye-cleanliness and so on. Heading to Antwerp is an excellent idea as well. OK, hope that helps 0 -
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Sounds like everything is on track there, the BN price comparison is probably the best sign that the deal is fair, for this location. Other jewellers to compare your final spec choice include John Brereton: http://www.johnbreretonjewellers.ie/#/http://www.johnbreretonjewellers.ie/Engagement_Rings/Solitaires; Diamonds and Gold: http://www.diamondsandgoldireland.com/pages/solitaire.htm, and Barry Doyle (independent jeweller): http://www.shopcreator.com/mall/barrydoyledesignjewellers/topic/topic-72405-1.stm. Good luck with the purchase 0
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Hello Sofaqueen. These guys seem to be HQ'ed in India and don't have any standard certification for their stones. This means there's no way to know the overall quality of the stone on offer -- though maybe this isn't important to you given the amount to be saved cf a typical 0.7ct in Ireland? They have a 30-day return policy if the stone's a dud (J's can look quite yellow with an OK cut and SI2 can have easily visible inclusions in them) -- though I wouldn't trust any of this without calling them first and hinting that you know a little bit about diamonds in general.
Questions I'd throw at them would be: who certifies the stones (expect the answer to be them); what kind of cut-grades would AGS or GIA give the stones (expect to get 'good' or 'very good' as an answer); can they examine particular stones for you to check for eye-cleanliness (i.e. do they have them in stock), expect either 'they're all eye-clean' or variations on 'you get what you pay for'.
I'd put in a nice request for a not-so-tinted J eye-clean-ish SI2, and see what comes back -- you could well score a good deal for a stone you can be happy with, you never know. Who dares wins The 30-day return is your safety net. Should it work out positively I'd love to see the results here. There is a similar outfit in Dublin (though their prices are closer to average): http://caratz.ie/index.php. Ok, HTH 0 -
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Newwifey, I'd still like to steer you away from these guys, just on the basis that I can't find anyone online giving positive reviews for quality outside of their e-bay account. One group I can recommend are: http://www.idjewelryonline.com/index.php?cPath=22_53. They're in the diamond district of NY, you can call and talk to the main man Yekutiel or his cohort Luann and set out roughly what you want and how much you'd like to pay. Importing will add on another 23/24 per cent, but I'm sure you know there's still megabucks to be saved then
10 pointers are approx. 3mm wide if they're properly cut. In this size you could go as far as I colour and definitely SI1 without trouble -- ask for stones that are 'sparkly and eye-clean at 10 inches' and you'll be a-okay You're right that at some point it's not worth paying over the odds for near perfection -- especially for non-engagement rings with smaller stones. Sorry I didn't come up with this yesterday, I've dealt with ID before but never realised what was floating around in their eternity band section -- and for how much! Best of luck with the deal if you decide to go for it 0 -
Intothesea
Thanks very much for the info. Loads of beauties on that site also. Will have a proper look tonight when all the little people are in bed. My aunt lives in NY and will be visiting us soon. You would never know what kind of pressies she might bring home in her bag
Thanks so much for your time in replying
Sinead0 -
Hi. Intothesea, fey and any other expert.I just got engaged recently and my fiance is going to get me a diamond ring. I would like it in F or G coulor, vvs, v good cut ,1 carat solitaire diamond ring on platinum. I have not decide wether pricess or pear or round cut yet. Because I have v small hands. What shape do you recomend? how much do you think it is going to cost? I am thinking about travelling to Dubai,antwerp or O'conor in dublin. but I also love the tiffiny and catier ring too. Could you tell me why tiffiny and catier rings are more expensive? Is it because it is better diamond or just the design? All dimond have GIA cert. Is that mean it does not matter where I go to buy it as long as they have the GIA cert mean that they are genuine? Thanks! 0
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Hello Prety. Congratulations on your engagement The best way to figure out which shape suits you is to try on different rings, any good jeweller will be happy to help you out. Round is the most traditional shape, then princess and then pear (the most unusual). A pear will appear to be bigger for the same carat weight because of the way it holds weight, while a princess looks a bit smaller than a same carat round.
If high clarity (VVS) isn't a cultural issue for you you could go to VS2 or maybe even SI1 and still have a lovely eye-clean stone. For a 1 carat F or G round in Antwerp you can check typical prices here: http://www.diamondland.be/shop/en/search.php?q=diamond-store; in Dublin you might expect between 7 to 10K, though in general jewellers' stock in Ireland tends not to be such high clarity (i.e. is VS and SI1). I'm not sure what the deals are like in Dubai, but they're sure to be good -- as long as you do some homework beforehand and go to a trusted jeweller there.
It might be worth to pay extra for the brand name if it's important to you -- the quality of stones in Cartier and Tiffany are better than general jeweller stock for cut-quality. The settings are usually better made, but not by the amount you'd expect for the price difference One way to get excellent cut grade is to buy with GIA cert and look out for Excellent or Very Good -- though there is a lot of variation in how this might look. In the end you have to use your eyes and compare stones side by side close to natural daylight. A GIA cert means the stone will cost a bit more than uncerted, but you can identify it (or have a jeweller identify it for you) and it's a way to be sure of its details. Any decent jeweller will have the main stone of a solitaire graded by a decent lab. These are GIA, AGS, HRD and to lesser degree IGI and EGL America (not Europe).
If you're interested in high-quality cut (better than average Tiffany etc. cut) you can check out these guys: http://www.precious.ie/ -- they specialise in ideal-cut stones. Okay, hope that helps 0 -
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ok well the ring is 18 carat whilte gold, 1/2 carat bezel/rubover set centre diamond, and 24 round brilliant cut diamonds on the shoulders and around the bezel - total weight 0.24 carat. The specs of the centre diamond are VS1, G colour, round brilliant cut. Ring size O.
In the original shop I found it in here in Mayo, the ring they were offering was H colour. They were willing to reduce their tag price by only €230 when I asked for the best price. I found it on a few online retailers, best price I could find at the time was 25% less than the shop's tag price, Voltaire's quote was 45% less than the shop.
Hope that helps. As I said on thread I was just so impressed by the whole thing - you get to view his range of ring designs at your own pace, in a relaxed atmosphere. Never, in all the shops we went to, were we offered a private viewing room, or given what I would call ''enough'' time. It was in - look us up and down* - try and upsell - and out.
*we dress ''casual indie'' rather than ''moneyed chic'' 0 -
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