DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

Bananaleaf · 03-07-2019 3:27pm

I just realised I did one mile too many this morning!!

KGC · 03-07-2019 7:31pm

Smothered with a cold all week. Havent been able to get out, very frustrating:(:(. Better to miss a run or two early on I suppose. I presume its better to just take up plan when feeling better rather than squeezing extra runs in to make up for it?

Huzzah! · 03-07-2019 8:15pm

KGC wrote: »

Smothered with a cold all week. Havent been able to get out, very frustrating:(:(. Better to miss a run or two early on I suppose. I presume its better to just take up plan when feeling better rather than squeezing extra runs in to make up for it?

Yep, when they’re gone, they’re gone. There’s no point in chasing lost miles, so just pick the plan back up when you’re able and be careful you don’t too much when you’re back at it.

Soulsun · 03-07-2019 11:12pm

any advice or tips on running posture?

py · 04-07-2019 12:18am

Soulsun wrote: »

any advice or tips on running posture?

There are a couple of "methods" out there that I've read about.

Pose method

Chi running

I'm sure there are more and I've no preference to either of the above. What I've found works for me is to relax my upper body and then the lower part goes on auto pilot. That includes shoulders being relaxed, arms swinging but tight to the body, open palms on each hand (creating a fist tenses muscles), head up with relaxed and open jaw (again avoiding tensing muscless, so it tends to bob open). This works for me, it may or may not for other people. I'm not even sure it's 100% correct but it's worked for me as I've built up from nothing in late 2018 to being able to do ~30Km per week with the DCM plan without any discomfort whilst running or afterwards.

Laineyfrecks · 04-07-2019 1:41pm

Huzzah! wrote: »

As in race it all out? Not a great idea as that would mean two tough runs back to back, which would be an injury risk.

Ok so obviously i don't want to jeopardise my DCM training so i will try my very very best to run Sundays race at my easy pace

Huzzah! · 04-07-2019 1:43pm

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

Ok so obviously i don't want to jeopardise my DCM training so i will try my very very best to run Sundays race at my easy pace

It's very good practice. All going well, at the start of DCM, you will feel fresh and full of running and will need to hold yourself back. Use Sunday as an opportunity to practice.

Laineyfrecks · 04-07-2019 2:06pm

Huzzah! wrote: »

It's very good practice. All going well, at the start of DCM, you will feel fresh and full of running and will need to hold yourself back. Use Sunday as an opportunity to practice.

This is gonna take some will power haha but its all for the bigger picture

Bananaleaf · 04-07-2019 2:43pm

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

This is gonna take some will power haha but its all for the bigger picture

I am running a half marathon race as an LSR on Saturday. I am going to be mortified crossing the line in a time that I could definitely beat if I just walked!

And I am nowhere near as quick as you are, so I can't imagine how hard it will be for you. But ...eyes on the prize. We are in it together!

Good luck on Sunday!

Laineyfrecks · 04-07-2019 6:56pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I am running a half marathon race as an LSR on Saturday. I am going to be mortified crossing the line in a time that I could definitely beat if I just walked! And I am nowhere near as quick as you are, so I can't imagine how hard it will be for you. But ...eyes on the prize. We are in it together!

Good luck on Sunday!

Thanks a mill and best of luck to you too on Sat

Laineyfrecks · 04-07-2019 6:59pm

This was suggested to me as an option or i could just skip the race altogether??

Rest tomorrow, 3 miles very easy (10 min miles) on Saturday, 2 miles very easy straight before race as a warm up, race and 2 more recovery miles as a cooldown within 15 mins of finishing race, 2 miles recovery pace??

py · 04-07-2019 7:15pm

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

This was suggested to me as an option or i could just skip the race altogether??

Rest tomorrow, 3 miles very easy (10 min miles) on Saturday, 2 miles very easy straight before race as a warm up, race and 2 more recovery miles as a cooldown within 15 mins of finishing race, 2 miles recovery pace??

What benefit does the race add towards building for the DCM?

Laineyfrecks · 04-07-2019 8:00pm

py wrote: »

What benefit does the race add towards building for the DCM?

It doesn't... as i have previously stated it was a race i had booked ages ago & forgot about...thats all

Mr. Guappa · 04-07-2019 8:55pm

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

This was suggested to me as an option or i could just skip the race altogether??

Rest tomorrow, 3 miles very easy (10 min miles) on Saturday, 2 miles very easy straight before race as a warm up, race and 2 more recovery miles as a cooldown within 15 mins of finishing race, 2 miles recovery pace??

What other races are you doing before the marathon? I recall you mentioning a Half at some stage, any other ones planned?

skyblue46 · 04-07-2019 9:14pm

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

This was suggested to me as an option or i could just skip the race altogether??

Rest tomorrow, 3 miles very easy (10 min miles) on Saturday, 2 miles very easy straight before race as a warm up, race and 2 more recovery miles as a cooldown within 15 mins of finishing race, 2 miles recovery pace??

It looks good to me. It gives you time on your feet over the weekend similar to the plan and a 5k doesn't take much recovery. Keep everything except the race itself at recovery pace over the few days. I wouldn't do it too often during the plan though. Enjoy it!

Laineyfrecks · 04-07-2019 9:15pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

What other races are you doing before the marathon? I recall you mentioning a Half at some stage, any other ones planned?

I am doing the race series but i am not here for the half marathon in the Phoenix park, which i did mention previously so i am doing a half marathon the week before, the 14th Sept i think

coogy · 04-07-2019 11:08pm

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

I am doing the race series but i am not here for the half marathon in the Phoenix park, which i did mention previously so i am doing a half marathon the week before, the 14th Sept i think

Ratoath?

kemcloughlin · 04-07-2019 11:14pm

Well I was so skeptical about running slowly ... but I was so wrong. I usually run out too fast for 1k and spend 2-3k trying to get right again before trying to end with a fast run. The result is usually exhaustion and nothing about any of it is remotely nice. I have now had two evenings going slowly and it is so enjoyable! I feel wonderful and much stronger - so thank you!

positron · 04-07-2019 11:26pm

py wrote: »

There are a couple of "methods" out there that I've read about.

Pose method

Chi running

I'm sure there are more and I've no preference to either of the above. What I've found works for me is to relax my upper body and then the lower part goes on auto pilot. That includes shoulders being relaxed, arms swinging but tight to the body, open palms on each hand (creating a fist tenses muscles), head up with relaxed and open jaw (again avoiding tensing muscless, so it tends to bob open). This works for me, it may or may not for other people. I'm not even sure it's 100% correct but it's worked for me as I've built up from nothing in late 2018 to being able to do ~30Km per week with the DCM plan without any discomfort whilst running or afterwards.

Good videos.

I have looked at Chi running videos in the past, and found them all very interesting and it all made sense.

But.. it all changed when I went for a barefoot jog at the beach last night. I was out with kids enjoying the sunshine and decided to do a short run while kids were getting ready to get back in the car. And while I always knew the benefits of barefoot etc, barefoot running proponents always sounds a bit like vegans, hippies you know, that eccentric type of folks. But it really was a pleasant surprise. I started off feeling completely lost but within 5 minutes, everything changed, I found myself taking shorter, quicker steps, and leaning forward came naturally. I feel I run very differently and perhaps correctly barefoot than with shoes. That quick 4.5k is the most amount of fun I've had running in last 3 years I've been running.

I am not suddenly saying shoes are evil or anything, you do need shoes to protect yourself when you run on all sorts of surfaces, but when the weather, surface and everything else comes together, I would definitely recommend everyone to try barefoot, even if it's for a few minutes. You wouldn't regret it ( unless you cut yourself on a piece of glass or something, in that case, I am so sorry..

)

KGC · 05-07-2019 12:12am

kemcloughlin wrote: »

Well I was so skeptical about running slowly ... but I was so wrong. I usually run out too fast for 1k and spend 2-3k trying to get right again before trying to end with a fast run. The result is usually exhaustion and nothing about any of it is remotely nice. I have now had two evenings going slowly and it is so enjoyable! I feel wonderful and much stronger - so thank you!

Couldnt agree more. Was finally able to get out tonight for first run of the week. Was sick for a few days so really concentrated on not overdoing it. Pace was nice and steady the whole way. Strange to look at the average pace at the end and be really happy that it 15sec/km slower than last run!!!!!

Laineyfrecks · 05-07-2019 7:09am

coogy wrote: »

Ratoath?

No the one i am doing is in Monasterevin

Rojo · 05-07-2019 9:38am

Loving the running slower. Feel much more in control of my body! :-)

Mr. Guappa · 05-07-2019 10:38am

Rojo wrote: »

Loving the running slower. Feel much more in control of my body! :-)

Well you're going to really love my next piece of advice so

Slow Down! You should add another minute (per mile) to your easy pace. You've ran all your recent runs at in or around PMP for a 4 hour marathon. Your easy pace should be a good minute slower than it currently is - say 10:15/mile or slower.

Rojo · 05-07-2019 2:15pm

This training keeps getting better and better.

Thanks for the guidance, Mr. Guappa. Really appreciate it.

For the LSR tomorrow what should I be aiming for time-wise?

Thanks again!

Mr. Guappa · 05-07-2019 3:07pm

Rojo wrote: »

This training keeps getting better and better.

Thanks for the guidance, Mr. Guappa. Really appreciate it.

For the LSR tomorrow what should I be aiming for time-wise?

Thanks again!

No bother, thanks!

I'd say no faster than 10:30/mile for the LSR.

Rojo · 05-07-2019 3:15pm

Excellent stuff. :-)

fatboyfin · 05-07-2019 5:09pm

Hello all,

still reading loads to get my head properly into the run slow frame of mind. I am not 100% sure of what my final target will be for the marathon, but will be somewhere between 3.45 and 3.30. Slowed down this week to 9min miles quite successfully last night - and I am conscious that I am deviating slightly from the boards 2019 plan. However, I am going to try and stick to the structure, ethos and variety of the plan, but just increase the mileage on some of the shorter runs (some of the more experienced runners can tell me if this is a good or bad idea!).

Whilst delving deep into the 2016 board, this stood out for me:

"If you do long runs in this intensity range, a 22-mile (35 km) run will take approximately the same amount of time as your marathon. By running for the length of time you hope to run the marathon, you also provide psychological reinforcement that you can run at a steady pace for that amount of time." quoted from Pfitzinger and Douglas during a explanatory discussion by some of the key motivators / coaches - and for me was a great way to understand in a relative way what to aim for.

I know we are not at the 22mile run yet, but I looked up to run 22miles in 3hr 30 (for the sake of argument) equates to 9min30sec miles. To run the marathon in the same time will require 8min miles - which to me seems an impossible leap but I know from training last year, I could run my LSR in 9.30 pace comfortably.

So, in summary - I shall go out tomorrow and try to slow my pace down to 9min30s for a 10mile run. I just hope that this target isn't too slow for me!

I am really enjoying the chat on this board, and the likes and comments on strava, and the new followers and following. I wish I had seen something like this for previous training.

Happy training all, stay safe, injury free and positive.

Baz

Mr. Guappa · 05-07-2019 6:09pm

fatboyfin wrote: »

Hello all,

still reading loads to get my head properly into the run slow frame of mind. I am not 100% sure of what my final target will be for the marathon, but will be somewhere between 3.45 and 3.30. Slowed down this week to 9min miles quite successfully last night - and I am conscious that I am deviating slightly from the boards 2019 plan. However, I am going to try and stick to the structure, ethos and variety of the plan, but just increase the mileage on some of the shorter runs (some of the more experienced runners can tell me if this is a good or bad idea!).

Whilst delving deep into the 2016 board, this stood out for me:

"If you do long runs in this intensity range, a 22-mile (35 km) run will take approximately the same amount of time as your marathon. By running for the length of time you hope to run the marathon, you also provide psychological reinforcement that you can run at a steady pace for that amount of time." quoted from Pfitzinger and Douglas during a explanatory discussion by some of the key motivators / coaches - and for me was a great way to understand in a relative way what to aim for.

I know we are not at the 22mile run yet, but I looked up to run 22miles in 3hr 30 (for the sake of argument) equates to 9min30sec miles. To run the marathon in the same time will require 8min miles - which to me seems an impossible leap but I know from training last year, I could run my LSR in 9.30 pace comfortably.

So, in summary - I shall go out tomorrow and try to slow my pace down to 9min30s for a 10mile run. I just hope that this target isn't too slow for me!

I am really enjoying the chat on this board, and the likes and comments on strava, and the new followers and following. I wish I had seen something like this for previous training.

Happy training all, stay safe, injury free and positive.

Baz

I love your enthusiasm, but you are focusing far too much on target times for an event that is 4 months away. Train to your current abilities and leave the target come to you, don't chase it. On a similar note, stop thinking about 22 milers (that aren't even on the plan!) and just worry about the next run, and the next week.

You should keep your long runs at closer to 10:00/mile for now.

Soulsun · 05-07-2019 6:17pm

Mr Guappa and co..

at what stage would we need to start taking gels?

fatboyfin · 05-07-2019 7:04pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I love your enthusiasm, but you are focusing far too much on target times for an event that is 4 months away. Train to your current abilities and leave the target come to you, don't chase it. On a similar note, stop thinking about 22 milers (that aren't even on the plan!) and just worry about the next run, and the next week.

You should keep your long runs at closer to 10:00/mile for now.

Cheers, will try and slow slow it down tomorrow. Fingers crossed

kyomi · 05-07-2019 8:04pm

Soulsun wrote: »

Mr Guappa and co..

at what stage would we need to start taking gels?

I'd also be interested to hear this. A couple of people who have done marathons before advised me to start getting used to gels as soon as possible, and on that advice I bought a couple of Hi 5 gels this week. I thought I might try one towards the end of Sunday's long run, close enough to my house in case it upsets my stomach.

I got the aqua type and the regular type so I'll try one this week and the other one next week.

Huzzah! · 05-07-2019 8:30pm

Soulsun wrote: »

Mr Guappa and co..

at what stage would we need to start taking gels?

kyomi wrote: »

I'd also be interested to hear this. A couple of people who have done marathons before advised me to start getting used to gels as soon as possible, and on that advice I bought a couple of Hi 5 gels this week. I thought I might try one towards the end of Sunday's long run, close enough to my house in case it upsets my stomach.

I got the aqua type and the regular type so I'll try one this week and the other one next week.

You'll get different answers to this. It's certainly worth trying them out and no harm taking one as a practice like you suggest.

Some people don't take gels until their runs get to the 18/20 mile mark. I take them for long runs over the half distance or about 2:30 in duration.

Huzzah! · 05-07-2019 8:31pm

Good luck to those racing this weekend. I know some of you are running Clontarf and Lainey is taking part in a 5k. Be sure to report back how you get on.

rainbow kirby · 05-07-2019 8:49pm

Soulsun wrote: »

Mr Guappa and co..

at what stage would we need to start taking gels?

I tend to take one if I'm out for more than around 2 hours. That's more like around 11 miles at my LSR pace.

Unknownability · 05-07-2019 9:53pm

Unknownability wrote: »

What a lovely morning, got up early and got the 8 miles out of the way.

Which turns out is my second longest run ever, did it at 8'15 m/m, which was faster than I intended and average heart beat was 158.

Hope everyone enjoys it today.

Had to move some runs around this week due to work and weddings.

So I did the second long run tonight, 10 miles at 8'55 m/m and average heart rate of 155.

Got into a stride so was easy to slow down and run at that pace.

Will need to look in to hydration and gels as they get longer.

Only another 16 lsrs to go

Laineyfrecks · 05-07-2019 11:02pm

Huzzah! wrote: »

Good luck to those racing this weekend. I know some of you are running Clontarf and Lainey is taking part in a 5k. Be sure to report back how you get on.

Actually turns out it doesn't look like i'll be racing Sunday but would like to thank all here for the advice & tips

Unknownability · 05-07-2019 11:21pm

pac_man wrote: »

What's your max heart rate just out of interest?

On that run or in general? In that run It was 161 and my max doing an intense session is 182.

Mr. Guappa · 05-07-2019 11:45pm

kyomi wrote: »

I'd also be interested to hear this. A couple of people who have done marathons before advised me to start getting used to gels as soon as possible, and on that advice I bought a couple of Hi 5 gels this week. I thought I might try one towards the end of Sunday's long run, close enough to my house in case it upsets my stomach.

I got the aqua type and the regular type so I'll try one this week and the other one next week.

I'd try the aqua one first. They are basically the same thing, except the aqua one has added water meaning it goes down easier. They are also a bit bulkier, which is a consideration if you're carting 7 of them around the DCM course with you!

We have enough carbohydrate stores (glycogen) to fuel us for roughly two hours at marathon effort. It's not necessarily a bad thing to go a bit longer than the two hours in training without adding additional fuel, as we are then training our body to use fat as a fuel source. However, we also need to practice our fuelling strategies ahead of the race, and ensure that whatever we are going to be taking on race day agrees with us.

Unknownability · 06-07-2019 6:31am

pac_man wrote: »

I just had a look at some of your posts just to get an idea of what type of running you are doing and you've made great progress over a short period of time.Well done! Your times get slower as the distance goes up but that's fairly common
as you haven't got the endurance built up.

Your paces seem decent enough but I'd be curious to know how truly easy them runs are.One way of verifying that is knowing your max heart rate.
What was your max HR after your 5K PB? If it's 182 then your runs are too quick.

Thanks for your feedback, yesterday was my second longest run ever. So totally agree that I'm still building endurance and getting the miles into my legs.

I wouldn't have my max heart rate really as I've only got the watch with a built in monitor at the start of the plan and haven't really been out of my comfort zone. Previously I'd the chest band but didn't really use it.

These rounds do feel quite easy as in not out of breath, could have a conversation and at the end I'm debating whether to stick to the plan or just keep going.

Original I wasn't going to race the upcoming 10k but I'll try find one now to get a max heart rate.

skyblue46 · 06-07-2019 7:40am

I'd agree wholeheartedly with pac_man on this one. There is no doubting your potential but everything indicates you are still running 'easy' a touch on the fast side. 155 would not truly be an easy running HR unless you have an outlier max HR. I know you find it very easy but that's when you compare it to what you were doing previously...there is likely another level for you to ease towards.

On a general point it's also important to remember that cardio and muscular fitness are the quickest to show improvement from an increase in training. I'd compare these to the engine of a car. The chassis, the structure that holds the car together, is what defines the real quality in a car build. In human terms the chassis are our bones, ligaments and tendons. Unfortunately they take a lot longer to develop and strengthen. In no time at all runners can improve their engine but haven't given the chassis time to strengthen. It's like sticking a Ferrari engine into an 80's Fiesta body and expecting it to hold together....it will if you idle around but not if you drive the bejaysus out of it. Running slowly (and sometimes on grass) allows the ligaments, tendons and bones to strengthen without the impact forces that faster running bring.

SeeMoreBut · 06-07-2019 8:01am

With avg hr what was the avg over last few miles to first few. And same with pace. If same pace I’d expect a gradual climb. If he was same pace fall away?

On consuming gels etc. Don’t want till it’s to late to take them on board. Learn how to carry a 250 ml bottle of water while running. So many people grab a bottle. Take a swig and halfway to next water station they’re gasping for water. Try and carry one. Come to next station drink/pour it over yourself. Grab next bottle and old one into bin. Even if you have a belt I’d still do this

rizzee · 06-07-2019 3:00pm

13km Lsr done in 1:19. Hazey rain, love it. Feeling good!

Mrs Mc · 06-07-2019 3:36pm

Huzzah! wrote: »

You'll get different answers to this. It's certainly worth trying them out and no harm taking one as a practice like you suggest.

Some people don't take gels until their runs get to the 18/20 mile mark. I take them for long runs over the half distance or about 2:30 in duration.

I had terrible stomach problems with gels on my last marathon to try get things right I have actually started testing them out purely to see how my stomach reacts to them this time around. I don’t actually need them yet but if I’m running for 100/120 mins I am testing after an hour just to see how stomach reacts. Long runs can be all good dress rehearsals for race day to try out what food works what clothes work and what gels work.

passinginterest · 06-07-2019 6:11pm

Damp and misty in Clontarf this morning. I ran with the 2 hour pacers (who did a great job) for about 9 miles. Heart rate was a bit higher than I'd have liked early on but it settled and I kept it very steady until I started to push. The beach run was tricky enough, so when I found myself getting ahead of the pacers a bit on the way back I was happy enough, because it meant I could ease off a bit and let them back to me again if needed. I was feeling very comfortably and once we got to the end of the beach there was just over 2 miles to go so I started to pick it up. Second last mile was about my half marathon pace but I got a bit carried away with the last mile and it was more like 10k pace. It was nice to be feeling so strong, but I do think it was a bit silly because I was probably risking injury for no long term benefit. Chip time of 1.56.34. A delicious jam donut at the end and happy days. Definitely boosted the confidence a bit to be feeling that strong at this point. Overall it's a nice race but vert tight and congested at times and the beach run wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.

pd79 · 06-07-2019 6:36pm

13k Lsr done, felt good, it tires for last km. Kept pace at 7:15 , so it took 1hr 34. First run where I felt good. Well done everyone , week two done !

Soulsun · 06-07-2019 8:48pm

missed my LSR today due to family reasons...
I am on HH Wk2 and have completed all runs to date.
Any suggestion on what to do regarding my plan
Do I alter it? do my LSR tmw?

Huzzah! · 06-07-2019 9:15pm

Soulsun wrote: »

missed my LSR today due to family reasons...
I am on HH Wk2 and have completed all runs to date.
Any suggestion on what to do regarding my plan
Do I alter it? do my LSR tmw?

While I would try to keep to the schedule as the plans progress, as a once off, if you're taking Monday off, I think you can do your LSR tomorrow.

ByrneDCMbrian · 06-07-2019 10:28pm

Lrs this morning 10 mile kept the pace at 9.40 to 10 mins per mile felt very comfortable. Time was 1hr 38 Love running in the rain. As for gels I took one this morning say about 7 mile in. I use the aqua gel orange flavour to me it's just like Robsons drink.

Rojo · 06-07-2019 11:02pm

Loved my LSR today. I didn’t start until around 21:00 and there was gorgeous light and it was nice and cool. I still need to slow down my pace a little bit... but I’m heading in the right direction. Well done on week 2, everyone. :-)

Dante · 06-07-2019 11:20pm

passinginterest wrote: »

Damp and misty in Clontarf this morning. I ran with the 2 hour pacers (who did a great job) for about 9 miles. Heart rate was a bit higher than I'd have liked early on but it settled and I kept it very steady until I started to push. The beach run was tricky enough, so when I found myself getting ahead of the pacers a bit on the way back I was happy enough, because it meant I could ease off a bit and let them back to me again if needed. I was feeling very comfortably and once we got to the end of the beach there was just over 2 miles to go so I started to pick it up. Second last mile was about my half marathon pace but I got a bit carried away with the last mile and it was more like 10k pace. It was nice to be feeling so strong, but I do think it was a bit silly because I was probably risking injury for no long term benefit. Chip time of 1.56.34. A delicious jam donut at the end and happy days. Definitely boosted the confidence a bit to be feeling that strong at this point. Overall it's a nice race but vert tight and congested at times and the beach run wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.

We were going at a similar enough pace so - think my chip time was around 1:54. It was my first proper run since the Limerick half over 2 months ago so took it fairly handy but its comforting to know I could finish the distance in a reasonable time without much training. Thought it was a fun race overall although, like you mentioned, I really didn't enjoy the beach stretch....could feel my shins burning big time from the loose sand. Other than that I was pretty happy (apart from the many blisters afterwards

).

DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

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