Cyclists should be "taken out and shot"

Banjoxed · 04-05-2016 7:20pm #1

Not my words, I hasten to add, but Ryanair's Michael O'Leary.

A novel if not brave solution but perhaps just a tad extreme.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/ryanair-s-michael-o-leary-says-cyclists-should-be-shot-1.2634793

coylemj · 04-05-2016 7:37pm

Does Michael O'Leary shooting his mouth off yet again warrant a new thread on boards? On any subject?

devnull · 04-05-2016 7:42pm

On the day Michael O'Leary reports that traffic has been slightly hit by the Belgian terror attacks, he comes out with anther publicity seeking statement, people see the article, it gets reported everywhere, then people think of Ryanair and have a look at some fares and maybe sell a few thousand extra more seats.

He's done it so many times, you'd think people would cop on by now. This is how he works. Notice how the time he came out with the toilet idea was when he was saying it was a slow news week. They're timed purposefully.

Banjoxed · 04-05-2016 7:48pm

devnull wrote: »

On the day Michael O'Leary reports that traffic has been slightly hit by the Belgian terror attacks, he comes out with anther publicity seeking statement, people see the article, it gets reported everywhere, then people think of Ryanair and have a look at some fares and maybe sell a few thousand extra more seats.

He's done it so many times, you'd think people would cop on by now. This is how he works. Notice how the time he came out with the toilet idea was when he was saying it was a slow news week. They're timed purposefully.

The toilet one came off the back from a bit of mock outrage from Bill Turnbull on BBC Breakfast - "Mr O'Leary, you'll be charging for toilet use next!"

Quick as a flash O'Leary deadpanned that his development team were looking at card vouchers that could be sold on the website. Clearly he was taking the P, but it was still ran with on a slow news day...

magicbastarder · 04-05-2016 8:08pm

lest anyone forget, this is not the first idea he's had to beat the traffic.

Grandeeod · 04-05-2016 9:10pm

I have great respect for MOL in terms of aviation, but he knows **** all about public transport. Never has and never will. He doesn't really care either.

pj.dublin · 05-05-2016 12:49am

Just confiscate the bike of bad cyclists, within a week Ireland would have zero problems with cyclists breaking the rules of the road.

magicbastarder · 05-05-2016 8:32am

that's always been my bright idea in relation to cars - if you get X penalty points, you have to surrender your car for X days within one week.

TheExile1878 · 05-05-2016 9:00am

Finally, something Michael O'Leary says that I agree with!!!!

Surely in this techie age we can get something rigged up that if you run a red light you a vaporised ?? Cars, and pedestrians too!

cdebru · 05-05-2016 9:30am

The guy is an ass every time he opens his mouth he just proves it.

MJohnston · 05-05-2016 10:17am

TheExile1878 wrote: »

Finally, something Michael O'Leary says that I agree with!!!!

Surely in this techie age we can get something rigged up that if you run a red light you a vaporised ?? Cars, and pedestrians too!

There would be no pedestrians left in the city

demanufactured · 05-05-2016 10:19am

Gobsh1te

Carawaystick · 05-05-2016 10:55am

Grandeeod wrote: »

I have great respect for MOL in terms of aviation, but he knows **** all about public transport.

Eh, He runs the biggest profitable public transport company in Ireland...

Grandeeod · 05-05-2016 11:16am

Carawaystick wrote: »

Eh, He runs the biggest profitable public transport company in Ireland...

You know what I meant.

Roadhawk · 05-05-2016 11:58am

there is another thread relating to this topic in the Cycle forum. Just thought i would add my tuppence worth here too.

However controversial MOL sounds, in my opinion, he is right. Cyclists are a menace in Dublin City. Between Aug 2015 and Jan 2016 nearly 600 fines were issued from the Gardai to cyclists breaking the law. The Gardai are short on resources so imagine how many are getting away without fines.

magicbastarder · 05-05-2016 12:05pm

your comment is meaningless out of context. if there were 50,000 cyclists using bikes in that period, that's a detection rate of approx. 1% for that timeframe.

MJohnston · 05-05-2016 12:06pm

Roadhawk wrote: »

there is another thread relating to this topic in the Cycle forum. Just thought i would add my tuppence worth here too.

However controversial MOL sounds, in my opinion, he is right. Cyclists are a menace in Dublin City. Between Aug 2015 and Jan 2016 nearly 600 fines were issued from the Gardai to cyclists breaking the law. The Gardai are short on resources so imagine how many are getting away without fines.

A typical lack of empathy that pervades 'popular' Irish opinion these days. Your numbers are meaningless without context:

1. What percentage of the total cyclists travelling during that period were fined?
2. How many pedestrians were breaking the law unpunished during the same period? How many punished?
3. How many drivers were breaking the law unpunished during the same period? How many punished?
4. What is the breakdown of the fineable offenses in those 600?
5. How many of those offenses are actually a "menace" to pedestrians or drivers?
6. Would the number be the same if the Gardai hadn't just introduced the new laws, run a big public campaign around them, and then had a short crackdown?

Let's put this in perspective, before you start calling everyone with a bike a menace. Better to recognize that there are careless and inattentive pedestrians, cyclists, and drivers alike, and they're all making it worse for the rest of us.

Roadhawk · 05-05-2016 12:24pm

MJohnston wrote: »

A typical lack of empathy that pervades 'popular' Irish opinion these days. Your numbers are meaningless without context:

1. What percentage of the total cyclists travelling during that period were fined?
2. How many pedestrians were breaking the law unpunished during the same period? How many punished?
3. How many drivers were breaking the law unpunished during the same period? How many punished?
4. What is the breakdown of the fineable offenses in those 600?
5. How many of those offenses are actually a "menace" to pedestrians or drivers?
6. Would the number be the same if the Gardai hadn't just introduced the new laws, run a big public campaign around them, and then had a short crackdown?

Let's put this in perspective, before you start calling everyone with a bike a menace. Better to recognize that there are careless and inattentive pedestrians, cyclists, and drivers alike, and they're all making it worse for the rest of us.

1. Not sure, might look into those figures.
2. Not sure and I don’t think there are fixed penalty fines for pedestrians. Although not a bad idea.
3. Absolutely loads. Maybe more traffic corps members might be able to reduce this figure. But what has that got to do with cyclists?
4. Not sure that the breakdown matters but http://www.dublincycling.ie/cycling/more-cyclists-get-fined-motorists-cycling-related-offences
5. Well all of them really
6. No but the number of offenders would more than likely stay the same or increase.

I never insinuated that cyclists were the only menace in the city.

cdebru · 05-05-2016 12:24pm

Roadhawk wrote: »

there is another thread relating to this topic in the Cycle forum. Just thought i would add my tuppence worth here too.

However controversial MOL sounds, in my opinion, he is right. Cyclists are a menace in Dublin City. Between Aug 2015 and Jan 2016 nearly 600 fines were issued from the Gardai to cyclists breaking the law. The Gardai are short on resources so imagine how many are getting away without fines.

over 10,000 people a day enter the canal cordon on bicycle between 7 and 10am mon to fri, how many enter before and after that on saturdays and sundays on top of that you have up to 15,000 dublin bike trips per day, so in a 4 or 5 month period well in excess of 3 million bike trips so 600 is pretty miniscule

magicbastarder · 05-05-2016 12:32pm

Roadhawk wrote: »

I never insinuated that cyclists were the only menace in the city.

define 'menace' so. how many people are killed or seriously injured by cyclists?
the last time a cyclist caused the death of another road user in dublin was 14 years ago; i'm not sure if there's any record of serious injuries caused by cyclists.

Roadhawk · 05-05-2016 12:34pm

cdebru wrote: »

over 10,000 people a day enter the canal cordon on bicycle between 7 and 10am mon to fri, how many enter before and after that on saturdays and sundays on top of that you have up to 15,000 dublin bike trips per day, so in a 4 or 5 month period well in excess of 3 million bike trips so 600 is pretty miniscule

I also read that article with all your stats:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/commuter-cyclists-in-dublin-top-10000-for-first-time-31144189.html

Its a good guidance to forecast but there are too many variables to be accurate. I think you might like this article:
http://www.dublincycling.ie/cycling/more-cyclists-get-fined-motorists-cycling-related-offences

magicbastarder · 05-05-2016 12:39pm

Roadhawk wrote: »

Its a good guidance to forecast but there are too many variables to be accurate. I think you might like this article:
http://www.dublincycling.ie/cycling/more-cyclists-get-fined-motorists-cycling-related-offences

"Leaving out the last figure due to its ambiguous nature, that’s 188 fixed charge notices that were issued to motorists for cycling related offences for the same two month period that 244 cyclists received equivalent fines."

i would question the use of the phrase 'equivalent fines'; the fines listed for motorists are the ones which would be fairly specifically ones which just impact cyclists. the fines listed for cyclists are general fines.

Roadhawk · 05-05-2016 12:41pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

define 'menace' so. how many people are killed or seriously injured by cyclists?
the last time a cyclist caused the death of another road user in dublin was 14 years ago; i'm not sure if there's any record of serious injuries caused by cyclists.

Menace: a person whose actions, attitudes, or ideas are considered dangerous or harmful.

I didnt call cyclists terrorists? Why have you all of a sudden jumped to death/injury rates? I presume you are comparing with motorists? Its also very hard to prove the fault of a cycling incident even though stats will show there hasnt been a single cyclist at fault over the last 14years? Personally id find that very hard to believe.

magicbastarder · 05-05-2016 12:45pm

well, you've just defined menace as someone whose actions are dangerous or harmful, and now you're balking at the notion of quantifying harm?

thomasj · 05-05-2016 12:55pm

pj.dublin wrote:

Just confiscate the bike of bad cyclists, within a week Ireland would have zero problems with cyclists breaking the rules of the road.

Easier said than done!

Grandeeod · 05-05-2016 1:02pm

I'll float this one.

Every cyclist using a bike on a public highway should have passed a mandatory rules of the road test and have a registration number. Furthermore they should have insurance.

Lemming · 05-05-2016 1:03pm

Taken from the Irish Times, bold part is my emphasis

Irish Times wrote:

Almost 600 cyclists were given on-the-spot fines for breaking red lights, cycling without lights or in pedestrianised areas, or for one of four other offences in the first six months of a new penalty regime.
The number of fines issued to cyclists was described as “on the high side” by Green Party councillor and chairman of the council’s transport committee Ciarán Cuffe, who suggested gardaí would better off pursuing drivers who broke speed limits and parked in cycle lanes.
There were more than 20,000 fixed-charge notices issued to speeding motorists over the same period.

That's 20,000 speeding charges alone, not any other sort of road traffic offense such as parking fines, dangerous driving, etc. So in reality the number will be north of 20,000 by a considerable margin. Lets just put this in perspective for all those people calling cyclists a menace, shoot them, confiscate bikes, etc. rhubarb rhubarb b0lloxology:

Six hundred FPNs is a whopping 3% of 20,000 alone never mind the additional motoring fines that may be applied. Damn those cyclists, they'll kill us all ... or some such.

Lemming · 05-05-2016 1:07pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'll float this one.

Every cyclist using a bike on a public highway should have passed a mandatory rules of the road test and have a registration number. Furthermore they should have insurance.

And if they're under the age of eighteen?

I think that schools should run rules of the road education (indeed they used to when I was growing up but it was a bit haphazardly applied, in so much as some schools might run a course but only occasionally and perhaps not even from year to year), but the rest of what you've suggested is just George-Hook b0lloxology.

Grandeeod · 05-05-2016 1:13pm

Lemming wrote: »

but the rest of what you've suggested is just George-Hook b0lloxology.

Why?

And could you not just have said you disagreed instead of the foul mouthed nonsense?

magicbastarder · 05-05-2016 1:15pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'll float this one.

Every cyclist using a bike on a public highway should have passed a mandatory rules of the road test and have a registration number. Furthermore they should have insurance.

you know the government is trying to encourage more people to take up cycling - as it's easier in terms of traffic, and results in a healthier population, among other things.
so they're not likely to introduce such rules, which would drive down cyclist numbers, and have explicitly said so iirc.

i think the main issue with the idea of mandatory insurance is that it's a solution in search of a problem; how big an issue is it that cyclists currently *aren't* insured?

PeadarCo · 05-05-2016 1:16pm

Grandeeod wrote:

Every cyclist using a bike on a public highway should have passed a mandatory rules of the road test and have a registration number. Furthermore they should have insurance.

I'll bite.

Other than making you feel better how would the above improve road safety?

Or put it an another way how many incidents of death or serious injury were cyclists responsible for in the last year?

Cyclists should be "taken out and shot"

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