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Cyclists should be "taken out and shot"

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    And no cycle lanes in these photos, Oh dear ;)

    No need for cycle lanes - just considerate road use by all road users.

    Driving culture in ireland is very ego-centric and immature (as evidenced by the amount of outside lane hogging that goes on etc).


  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    maybe we could limit bikes to 25kph, unless a competency test has been passed?

    Great idea.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭2RockMountain


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Debatable...although a road user, no vehicle is used by a pedestrian. More grounds to focus on the cyclist.

    Why? They don't show up as a cause of injury or death or damage in any traffic reports.


  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    Jawgap wrote: »
    No need for cycle lanes - just considerate road use by all road users.

    Driving culture in ireland is very ego-centric and immature (as evidenced by the amount of outside lane hogging that goes on etc).

    I completely agree and would include cyclists in that same ego-centric and immature culture.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    I completely agree and would include cyclists in that same ego-centric and immature culture.

    I don't doubt for a minute that there are a significant number of cyclists who use the road inconsiderately but the fact remains if I cycle like a tw@t the chances are the only one who ends up hurt is me......

    ......but if I drive like a tw@t.......;)

    Anyway, the writing is on the wall, if anything they'll be adding more cycle infrastructure to the cityscape - hopefully they (the City Council) will do a better job than has heretofore been the case.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Debatable...although a road user, no vehicle is used by a pedestrian. More grounds to focus on the cyclist.
    Why? They don't show up as a cause of injury or death or damage in any traffic reports.

    There's nothing really to debate - cyclists do not feature in the road collision stats at anything like a level that suggests they are a 'cause' of accidents.....

    RSA Ireland Road Collisions


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 976 ✭✭✭Kev_2012


    First of all, the cyclists in Dublin are absolute reckless.
    Breaking red lights, cutting in front of cars, cycling on footpaths, cycling in between buses.

    I'd say the vast majority I've seen are absolute hazards!

    I don't know how people are getting killed off bicycles or harming pedestrians. It's ridiculous.

    Secondly, I can't understand people who are happy to cycle 30 odd minutes into work and sit there covered in sweat or soaked from rain all day. I certainly won't be doing it. Not every office or workplace has shower facilities.

    Thirdly, with regards public transport, why are the buses so infrequent and completely out of sync with their timetables? The Dublin bus app must be wrong 3/4 times a week for me! Buses arriving 10/15 minutes early or late or simply not showing.

    The amount of buses going over o connell bridge and then only D'Olier st in the mornings is crazy, and even crazier with the cyclists weaving in and out between them.

    The sooner Dublin City Council figures out a proper metro system the better (a sustainable and expandable one).

    People used to complain about public transit over in Vancouver when I lived there and it is infinitely better than the service in Dublin and less than half the price per month.
    Skytrains over there come along every 3 minutes, aren't late and are totally automatic.

    Even this new Luas line is a feckin joke.

    But hey, that's Ireland for ya, a tech hub that is still completely backwards and ran by idiots.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    First of all, the cyclists in Dublin are absolute reckless.

    :rolleyes:

    I got bored at this point with generalisations and didn't read any further.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 976 ✭✭✭Kev_2012


    traprunner wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    I got bored at this point with generalisations and didn't read any further.

    Generalisation? I'm sorry, is what I see with my own 2 eyes every single day going to and from work not enough?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    Generalisation? I'm sorry, is what I see with my own 2 eyes every single day going to and from work not enough?

    Simply: no.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    First of all, the cyclists in Dublin are absolute reckless.
    Breaking red lights, cutting in front of cars, cycling on footpaths, cycling in between buses.

    I'd say the vast majority I've seen are absolute hazards!

    I don't know how people are getting killed off bicycles or harming pedestrians. It's ridiculous.

    Secondly, I can't understand people who are happy to cycle 30 odd minutes into work and sit there covered in sweat or soaked from rain all day. I certainly won't be doing it. Not every office or workplace has shower facilities.

    Thirdly, with regards public transport, why are the buses so infrequent and completely out of sync with their timetables? The Dublin bus app must be wrong 3/4 times a week for me! Buses arriving 10/15 minutes early or late or simply not showing.

    The amount of buses going over o connell bridge and then only D'Olier st in the mornings is crazy, and even crazier with the cyclists weaving in and out between them.

    The sooner Dublin City Council figures out a proper metro system the better (a sustainable and expandable one).

    People used to complain about public transit over in Vancouver when I lived there and it is infinitely better than the service in Dublin and less than half the price per month.
    Skytrains over there come along every 3 minutes, aren't late and are totally automatic.

    Even this new Luas line is a feckin joke.

    But hey, that's Ireland for ya, a tech hub that is still completely backwards and ran by idiots.

    probably because there's no actual hazard - if things were as bad as you describe it would be reflected in the collision stats.

    Second, it's easy to cycle without getting sweaty - and even if you do get sweaty many workplaces have showers, and if they don't have showers the magic word is "baby wipes" :D

    Dublin is actually quite dry - on any given work day the probability of getting wet is quite low.....

    385192.JPG

    .....the weather patterns don't change that much despite what Healy-Rae might have you believe.

    I don't know about buses or the Luas - if I'm not on the bike, I take the car ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Secondly, I can't understand people who are happy to cycle 30 odd minutes into work and sit there covered in sweat or soaked from rain all day.

    This is comedy gold on so many levels! Firstly, you can't understand why? Here's a handful of reasons - it makes you feel good, it keeps you fit, it's much faster than most other forms of commute, it's environmentally friendly, it allows for much better and free-er access to the city than a car, it's fun!

    Secondly, a 30 minute cycle is easy for most frequent cyclists.

    Thirdly, most cyclists won't be covered in sweat after 30 minutes (unless it's their first week cycling). And it doesn't rain that much either. But even when you do sweat, or it does rain, that's why most proper cyclists come to work wearing cycling gear and then get changed at work. Some of us even work for companies that have showering facilities at the office.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    My favourite thing to do as a cyclist is to head up through Phoenix Park after work, take a break every so often, and enjoy life in this city. It's especially entertaining watching all the red-faced car commuters stuck in yet another traffic jam, or at the weekend the lovely people who choose their car as their method of exploring the park.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 976 ✭✭✭Kev_2012


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Simply: no.

    Good argument pal. :thumbsup:
    Jawgap wrote: »
    probably because there's no actual hazard - if things were as bad as you describe it would be reflected in the collision stats.

    Second, it's easy to cycle without getting sweaty - and even if you do get sweaty many workplaces have showers, and if they don't have showers the magic word is "baby wipes" :D

    Dublin is actually quite dry - on any given work day the probability of getting wet is quite low.....

    385192.JPG

    .....the weather patterns don't change that much despite what Healy-Rae might have you believe.

    I don't know about buses or the Luas - if I'm not on the bike, I take the car ;)

    Ok go to D'Olier st at rush hour in the morning and have a look. Bikes flying out in front of buses and inbetween them. It's like something out of a bollywood film!

    I disagree with the getting sweaty part. I'm quite fit and I would be sweaty after 20 minutes on a bike.

    The weather in Dublin is dryer than rest of the country however it can change at the drop of a hat.
    MJohnston wrote: »
    This is comedy gold on so many levels! Firstly, you can't understand why? Here's a handful of reasons - it makes you feel good, it keeps you fit, it's much faster than most other forms of commute, it's environmentally friendly, it allows for much better and free-er access to the city than a car, it's fun!

    Secondly, a 30 minute cycle is easy for most frequent cyclists.

    Thirdly, most cyclists won't be covered in sweat after 30 minutes (unless it's their first week cycling). And it doesn't rain that much either. But even when you do sweat, or it does rain, that's why most proper cyclists come to work wearing cycling gear and then get changed at work. Some of us even work for companies that have showering facilities at the office.

    No need to be a smart arse. I like exercise, but I also don't like the feeling of smelling like sh!te all day in work. 30 minutes is an easy cycle but if you don't think you'd be sweaty from it, you are clearly deluded.

    My final point was that not every company/workplace has shower facilities. Did you read my post?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 976 ✭✭✭Kev_2012


    MJohnston wrote: »
    My favourite thing to do as a cyclist is to head up through Phoenix Park after work, take a break every so often, and enjoy life in this city. It's especially entertaining watching all the red-faced car commuters stuck in yet another traffic jam, or at the weekend the lovely people who choose their car as their method of exploring the park.

    Well aren't you just a diamond in the rough eh? :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    Good argument pal. :thumbsup:



    Ok go to D'Olier st at rush hour in the morning and have a look. Bikes flying out in front of buses and inbetween them. It's like something out of a bollywood film!

    I disagree with the getting sweaty part. I'm quite fit and I would be sweaty after 20 minutes on a bike.

    The weather in Dublin is dryer than rest of the country however it can change at the drop of a hat.



    No need to be a smart arse. I like exercise, but I also don't like the feeling of smelling like sh!te all day in work. 30 minutes is an easy cycle but if you don't think you'd be sweaty from it, you are clearly deluded.

    My final point was that not every company/workplace has shower facilities. Did you read my post?

    after a cycle for 30 minutes I build up a bit of sweat, but once you've taken off your cycling gear, had a bit of a dab with a wet wipe, and put on your office clothing you're right as rain. If it wasn't for the wheezing no one would know I'd done anything strenuous ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    MJohnston wrote: »
    My favourite thing to do as a cyclist is to head up through Phoenix Park after work, take a break every so often, and enjoy life in this city. It's especially entertaining watching all the red-faced car commuters stuck in yet another traffic jam, or at the weekend the lovely people who choose their car as their method of exploring the park.

    For a motorist traffic is a given. If they seem to be "red-faced" i would image its probable because of the cyclists breaking red lights etc. With a comfortable seat and heating what is there to complain about?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    No need to be a smart arse.

    If you don't want smart arse replies, don't wade in with comments like "the cyclists in Dublin are absolute reckless."
    I like exercise, but I also don't like the feeling of smelling like sh!te all day in work. 30 minutes is an easy cycle but if you don't think you'd be sweaty from it, you are clearly deluded.

    Of course you'd be a bit sweaty. You said "covered in sweat...all day". I'd be surprised if that's true of any frequent cyclists.

    Sweat doesn't smell, its only when it mixes with bacteria that it starts to. Have a proper shower just before you get on your bike for that 30 minute cycle and you won't end up smelling at all for any amount of time (in fact, sitting on a chair at work probably produces more smelly bacteria than exercise). Bring a can of antiperspirant and a change of clothes and you're likely to feel fresh and clean all day. Don't need shower facilities to get changed in.

    There's also the geographical fact that if you're cycling into Dublin CC, or anywhere within the canals really, you're likely cycling downhill. Meaning you don't have to expend a huge amount of energy getting to work, meaning you don't have to sweat a lot. Most people would only have to sweat heavily on the cycle home.
    My final point was that not every company/workplace has shower facilities. Did you read my post?

    Of course I did, as originally posted.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,354 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    I don't know how people are getting killed off bicycles or harming pedestrians. It's ridiculous.
    what's ridiculous? the fact that you don't know something? or that your opinion does not correspond with the actual situation?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭2RockMountain


    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    First of all, the cyclists in Dublin are absolute reckless.
    Breaking red lights, cutting in front of cars, cycling on footpaths, cycling in between buses.

    If it is only or mainly cyclists that you see breaking red lights, cutting in front of cars, cutting between buses, can I suggest that you spend 10 minutes on the dashcam thread in the Motors forum so that you can educate yourself as to the routine ignoring of traffic law by many drivers in Ireland.

    I'm surprised that you don't notice this already, mind you - you are supposed to observe what goes on around you on the road.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    For a motorist traffic is a given. If they seem to be "red-faced" i would image its probable because of the cyclists breaking red lights etc. With a comfortable seat and heating what is there to complain about?

    You tell me - usually it is angry faces at the North Road/Ashtown Gate Road junction, or from being stuck behind a slower driver. Driving just seems to bring out a selfish streak in most people.

    There are no red lights in Phoenix Park for cyclists to be breaking - in fact, very little reason for cyclists to mix with traffic at all, thankfully.


  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    Jawgap wrote: »
    There's nothing really to debate - cyclists do not feature in the road collision stats at anything like a level that suggests they are a 'cause' of accidents.....

    RSA Ireland Road Collisions

    Well the stats in the link you provided do not establish the cause or fault of an incident. Another link i found for stats in the RSA have different fatality stats for cyclists than the one you provided. Not sure if they have reported correctly.

    http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads/

    Also these stats are from 4 years ago...anything more recent? Ever think that the recent stats are not being published because the government have an agenda to promote cycling and dont want to scare potential new cyclists? just saying.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    Good argument pal. :thumbsup:



    Ok go to D'Olier st at rush hour in the morning and have a look. Bikes flying out in front of buses and inbetween them. It's like something out of a bollywood film!

    Well I'm sure it is - but thankfully no one seems to get hurt.
    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    I disagree with the getting sweaty part. I'm quite fit and I would be sweaty after 20 minutes on a bike.

    Sounds like you're using your gear wrong - or indeed not using them. Or you could de-layer ;)
    Kev_2012 wrote: »
    The weather in Dublin is dryer than rest of the country however it can change at the drop of a hat.

    the study quoted used data from the census (for commuting departure times) and Met Eireann for rainfall.

    However, I'm sure your anecdotes are more accurate.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,354 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Well the stats in the link you provided do not establish the cause or fault of an incident. Another link i found for stats in the RSA have different fatality stats for cyclists than the one you provided. Not sure if they have reported correctly.
    transport for london commissioned a study into traffic fatalities, and determined that cyclist fatalities were the fault of the motorist for most of the cases studied.

    obviously a different city, and i suspect the biggest difference between dublin and london would be the HGV ban in dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    MJohnston wrote: »
    You tell me - usually it is angry faces at the North Road/Ashtown Gate Road junction, or from being stuck behind a slower driver. Driving just seems to bring out a selfish streak in most people.

    There are no red lights in Phoenix Park for cyclists to be breaking - in fact, very little reason for cyclists to mix with traffic at all, thankfully.

    If you cycle the park much im sure you know that more often than not commuters tend to use the road instead of the cycle track because of the same reason, slower cyclists and/or pedestrians. In fact this topic had come up before on boards and cyclists said they they would be sticking to the road and not the track. I am a regular Phoenix Park cyclist and tend to go at my one pace. I have seen that frustration a number of times on the face of other cyclists as they race past.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    If you cycle the park much im sure you know that more often than not commuters tend to use the road instead of the cycle track because of the same reason, slower cyclists and/or pedestrians. In fact this topic had come up before on boards and cyclists said they they would be sticking to the road and not the track. I am a regular Phoenix Park cyclist and tend to go at my one pace. I have seen that frustration a number of times on the face of other cyclists as they race past.

    Of course, but then bicycles using the road instead of a cycle track is perfectly legal, not sure why you're suggesting otherwise. "more often than not" is a big exaggeration too.

    The only red-faced cyclists I see in PP are those, like myself, who are out of breath ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Well the stats in the link you provided do not establish the cause or fault of an incident. Another link i found for stats in the RSA have different fatality stats for cyclists than the one you provided. Not sure if they have reported correctly.

    http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads/

    Also these stats are from 4 years ago...anything more recent? Ever think that the recent stats are not being published because the government have an agenda to promote cycling and dont want to scare potential new cyclists? just saying.

    If things were as 'Mad Max' as you are suggesting, there'd be a lot more bloodied and broken cyclists - cycle fatalities in recent years rarely (and thankfully) make it into double figures in any given year.

    Here's the 2015 stats

    image-20.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Its worth noting those figures are absolute, not per KM cycled. If you adjusted for that the drop off would be even steeper.


  • Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    transport for london commissioned a study into traffic fatalities, and determined that cyclist fatalities were the fault of the motorist for most of the cases studied.

    obviously a different city, and i suspect the biggest difference between dublin and london would be the HGV ban in dublin.

    I take that into consideration but that is completely irrelevant. I mean London is a city with about 20 million people and a complete different dynamic in their approach to transport. Sure Boris Johnson is the modern day hippie who is fascinated with cyclists.

    I could equally throw out the link below and say that this is fact but i doubt it:
    http://www.planningforreality.org/cyclists-at-fault-in-majority-of-car-vs-bike-collisions-in-california/

    You see behind every article is an agenda. Each with there own opinion. The fact are hard to confirm even though we believe what we want to believe.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    ED E wrote: »
    Its worth noting those figures are absolute, not per KM cycled. If you adjusted for that the drop off would be even steeper.

    And if you stripped out the OAPs and the non-urban collisions it becomes even steeper.


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