Taxi driver protest

Taxipete29 · 08-03-2009 3:42am

Terrontress wrote: »

Taxipete is claiming that posters here are looking down on taxi drivers and this is wrong. It seems he is looking down on certain elements of the taxi driving population.

No its not wrong. To call me or any other driver a "stain on society" shows prejudice of the highest order.

How am I looking down on certain elements explain please because I havent a clue what your on about?????????????????????????????

Terrontress · 08-03-2009 10:30am

Taxipete29 wrote: »

No its not wrong. To call me or any other driver a "stain on society" shows prejudice of the highest order.

How am I looking down on certain elements explain please because I havent a clue what your on about?????????????????????????????

I agree, to call anyone at all a "stain on society" is very harsh. Everyone has something to offer society, regardless of who they are.

You are coming at this from the viewpoint that you are right. Part time drivers are wrong. People with older cars than you are wrong. People with smaller cars are wrong. New people entering the industry should not be allowed to do so. This is not in this post alone, it's your postings as a whole. Regardless of whether those individual posts are correct or not, you are judging other drivers less favourably than yourself.

There is no solidarity in your protest. I would bet your bottom dollar that a lot of the men you drove alongside in this protest operate in a manner that you would not agree with. Whether it's overtaking a driver with a light on, having PAYE income elsewhere or not paying tax on all income.

So it is a case of looking out for number one, which has been the accusation levelled from the beginning.

signman12 · 08-03-2009 11:07am

Terrontress wrote: »

I agree, to call anyone at all a "stain on society" is very harsh. Everyone has something to offer society, regardless of who they are.

You are coming at this from the viewpoint that you are right. Part time drivers are wrong. People with older cars than you are wrong. People with smaller cars are wrong. New people entering the industry should not be allowed to do so. This is not in this post alone, it's your postings as a whole. Regardless of whether those individual posts are correct or not, you are judging other drivers less favourably than yourself.

There is no solidarity in your protest. I would bet your bottom dollar that a lot of the men you drove alongside in this protest operate in a manner that you would not agree with. Whether it's overtaking a driver with a light on, having PAYE income elsewhere or not paying tax on all income.

So it is a case of looking out for number one, which has been the accusation levelled from the beginning.

why did'nt taxi drivers do their protest over a weekend by refusing to drive their cars for 1 night, I'd have more respect for that than them clogging up the roads during normal business hours on a sunny day.

it's hard enough to try & make a living these days, taxi drivers don't seem to realise that they do not "own" the roads plus loading bays are not taxi ranks but are for vans trying to do deliveries.

we would all be happy if there was less competion in the marketplace, but we can't ask companies not to open because some of us in the same line might make less money.
you just need to get on with it,
it's not easy being a sole trader but that's your choice,

Taxipete29 · 08-03-2009 11:19am

Terrontress wrote: »

I agree, to call anyone at all a "stain on society" is very harsh. Everyone has something to offer society, regardless of who they are.

You are coming at this from the viewpoint that you are right. Part time drivers are wrong. People with older cars than you are wrong. People with smaller cars are wrong. New people entering the industry should not be allowed to do so. This is not in this post alone, it's your postings as a whole. Regardless of whether those individual posts are correct or not, you are judging other drivers less favourably than yourself.

There is no solidarity in your protest. I would bet your bottom dollar that a lot of the men you drove alongside in this protest operate in a manner that you would not agree with. Whether it's overtaking a driver with a light on, having PAYE income elsewhere or not paying tax on all income.

So it is a case of looking out for number one, which has been the accusation levelled from the beginning.

Just because I dont agree with someone does not mean I look down on them which was the accusation you levelled at me.

I dont always agree with how some of my friends operate or some of the stories I hear about how other drivers do things but I dont look down on them as a result.

I will admit its difficult for there to be full solidarity amongst a group of people who are all natural competitors and I will admit not all drivers share the same ideas as me on how best the industry should be reformed but that is not to say there wrong and im right or vice versa, its our opinions we debate.

Almost every post against capping licences has judged taxi drivers less favourably so if you apply your standards to other posters surely they do look down on taxi drivers as I suggested???

Taxipete29 · 08-03-2009 11:23am

signman12 wrote: »

why did'nt taxi drivers do their protest over a weekend by refusing to drive their cars for 1 night, I'd have more respect for that than them clogging up the roads during normal business hours on a sunny day.

If you wish to protest outside Government buildings there is little point doing it if there is no one inside. Its that simple

signman12 · 08-03-2009 11:35am

Taxipete29 wrote: »

If you wish to protest outside Government buildings there is little point doing it if there is no one inside. Its that simple

so what was the point in clogging up the roads, this did not effect the government in the least but just adden extra burden's on the rest of us.
you do have a right to protest but your methods are out dated.
you do not get any sympathy from the general public that are your customers.
I always think of the scenes from George Orwell's "animal farm" when you look at how the irish government tries to ruin run this country

Terrontress · 08-03-2009 2:00pm

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Just because I dont agree with someone does not mean I look down on them which was the accusation you levelled at me.

I dont always agree with how some of my friends operate or some of the stories I hear about how other drivers do things but I dont look down on them as a result.

I will admit its difficult for there to be full solidarity amongst a group of people who are all natural competitors and I will admit not all drivers share the same ideas as me on how best the industry should be reformed but that is not to say there wrong and im right or vice versa, its our opinions we debate.

Almost every post against capping licences has judged taxi drivers less favourably so if you apply your standards to other posters surely they do look down on taxi drivers as I suggested???

Maybe they do but two wrongs don't make a right.

murphaph · 08-03-2009 4:45pm

Terrontress wrote: »

One final thing to clear up some previous misinformation from a taxi driver: In order to hail a taxi on the city streets in the UK, be it London, Belfast, Edinburgh or anywhere; it has to be a black taxi type of vehicle or one which offers the same functionality. Normal family saloon cars are for pre-booking only.

Thanks Terrontress. That was Hamndegger with the misinformation which I must have missed. You are 100% correct-taxis for hire on the street across the ENTIRE United Kingdom must conform to the 'black cab' standards. Only mini-cabs (what we call Hackneys in Ireland) are allowed to be 'normal cars'.

Oh and just for information....there is no limit on the number of London Black Cabs. It is purely controlled by the difficulty in getting a licence due to the nature of the test.

Taxipete29 · 08-03-2009 5:30pm

Terrontress wrote: »

Maybe they do but two wrongs don't make a right.

Really dont know what you mean by that??

Terrontress · 08-03-2009 5:58pm

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Really dont know what you mean by that??

I made the point that there are large numbers of taxi who you deem less suitable than you to do the job you are currently doing.

Your response seems to agree, tailed with the point that people on here are looking down on taxi drivers. It doesn't really take what I said about you into account.

Taxipete29 · 08-03-2009 6:24pm

Terrontress wrote: »

I made the point that there are large numbers of taxi who you deem less suitable than you to do the job you are currently doing.

Your response seems to agree, tailed with the point that people on here are looking down on taxi drivers. It doesn't really take what I said about you into account.

Just because I deem them less suitable does not mean I am looking down on them which was what you originally said. Added to that I dont think I made any reference to a large number of drivers, I said I dont agree with how some drivers operate, which in no way denotes any specific number large or small.

You said I was wrong about people looking down on drivers and I am not , the language and tone of the posts show that people do. I was pointing out that if you think I look down on other drivers, I dont see how you can say some posters here dont look down on taxi drivers in general.

Terrontress · 08-03-2009 6:50pm

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Just because I deem them less suitable does not mean I am looking down on them which was what you originally said. Added to that I dont think I made any reference to a large number of drivers, I said I dont agree with how some drivers operate, which in no way denotes any specific number large or small.

You said I was wrong about people looking down on drivers and I am not , the language and tone of the posts show that people do. I was pointing out that if you think I look down on other drivers, I dont see how you can say some posters here dont look down on taxi drivers in general.

Hi Pete, I think I mispunctuated my original statement. I wasn't saying that you were wrong in saying that people were looking down on taxi drivers. What I meant was that you were claiming that people are looking down on taxi drivers and for them to do so is wrong.

I was just trying to say that there are also elements in the taxi driving game that you have an issue with the way they operate.

In both cases I think it is a generalisation.

Taxipete29 · 08-03-2009 7:00pm

Terrontress wrote: »

Hi Pete, I think I mispunctuated my original statement. I wasn't saying that you were wrong in saying that people were looking down on taxi drivers. What I meant was that you were claiming that people are looking down on taxi drivers and for them to do so is wrong.

I was just trying to say that there are also elements in the taxi driving game that you have an issue with the way they operate.

In both cases I think it is a generalisation.

Oh ok thats fair enough. I am almost amazed how something as small as a comma can make such a big difference lol.

the_syco · 08-03-2009 7:57pm

uma wrote: »

i find it funny that you see no difference between regulation and deregulation and are basically saying that if you wanted deregulation when there were only 2.800 taxis in Dublin you should still have the same opinion when it has gone completly the other way at 16000 taxis !:D

Nope. I'm saying that those who got in after deregulation cheaply now want a cap put on the amount of taxis seem to want their cake, and to eat it. They wanted deregulation, and now that it has come about, and they got in cheaply, they now want no taxi plates to be given as freely anymore.

Spook_ie wrote: »

We want a moritorium on license plates for a temporary period while a root n branch revision is made of the entire industry and people listen to the taxi drivers as well as the unions ( who don't represent all the drivers and indeed have some vested interests that directly oppose taxi DRIVERS interests )

Never heard anything about the moratorium. Just heard a lot of taxi people saying there was too many taxis on the roads. My question is how many of those that complain are part of their own problem? They came into the taxi business as it was cheap to do so. They then find out as it was cheap to do so, many more have come in to the business. And thus they themselves are part of the problem of the over-saturation of taxis. It's true that there shouldn't have been such a "open the flood gates" for anyone to get a plate attitude by the government, but it's done. Closing the gates once more won't work. I'm not sure how themoratorium will work, but I would like to hear. I've haven't heard anything about this lately.

buzzerbuckley wrote: »

There is a cap on tv and radio stations another public service providers in ireland too.

The cap on radio stations is due to the current lack of how much space there is on the radio band.

The taxi companies are there to make a profit. And who would blame them? They are a private company.

signman12 wrote: »

we would all be happy if there was less competion in the marketplace, but we can't ask companies not to open because some of us in the same line might make less money.
you just need to get on with it,
it's not easy being a sole trader but that's your choice,

Agreed.

murphaph wrote: »

Oh and just for information....there is no limit on the number of London Black Cabs. It is purely controlled by the difficulty in getting a licence due to the nature of the test.

The test that ensures you know where to drive? If this test was brought in now, and every taxi driver had to take it within 3 months, or loose their plate, I'd say that it would solve the problem of too many taxis, whilst at the same time ensuring that the taxi people left knew their area, how to get there quickly, and what area's to avoid.

Terrontress · 08-03-2009 10:05pm

I think that if taxi drivers lived with that threat hanging over their heads, the problems it would create would be immeasurable. Why would someone invest in a decent car when they could be kicked off the road in three months because a tester got out the wrong side of the bed that morning.

I can't see a way out of the issue. You can't introduce draconian standards retrospectively. Those that are currently drivers should not be tossed out on their ear. And is it fair to introduce these standards on new entrants when 25,000 drivers haven't had to pass these. I don't think it's fair to prevent new entrants as the only difference between the majority of current drivers and new entrants is time. There could be guys saving for their license, car and meter that get prevented or else a kid who wants to drive a taxi when he grows up and are suddenly excluded.

I really think it is fairest to just let the current situation continue, coupled with strict enforcement of regulations and traffic rules, which I believe may not be the case at present. On the flip-side, ensure that there are social welfare benefits and re-training opportunities for drivers who feel the need to get out.

Spook_ie · 08-03-2009 11:59pm

the_syco wrote: »

Nope. I'm saying that those who got in after deregulation cheaply now want a cap put on the amount of taxis seem to want their cake, and to eat it. They wanted deregulation, and now that it has come about, and they got in cheaply, they now want no taxi plates to be given as freely anymore.

Never heard anything about the moratorium. Just heard a lot of taxi people saying there was too many taxis on the roads. My question is how many of those that complain are part of their own problem? They came into the taxi business as it was cheap to do so. They then find out as it was cheap to do so, many more have come in to the business. And thus they themselves are part of the problem of the over-saturation of taxis. It's true that there shouldn't have been such a "open the flood gates" for anyone to get a plate attitude by the government, but it's done. Closing the gates once more won't work. I'm not sure how themoratorium will work, but I would like to hear. I've haven't heard anything about this lately.

The cap on radio stations is due to the current lack of how much space there is on the radio band.

The taxi companies are there to make a profit. And who would blame them? They are a private company.

Agreed.

The test that ensures you know where to drive? If this test was brought in now, and every taxi driver had to take it within 3 months, or loose their plate, I'd say that it would solve the problem of too many taxis, whilst at the same time ensuring that the taxi people left knew their area, how to get there quickly, and what area's to avoid.

A temporary moritorium is the only thing that TDFC are campaigning actively for, a call for a temporary moritorium is all that has been officialy released to the press, a temporary moritorium is the only thing that has been called on for the minister to action immediately.

http://www.taxidriversforchange.com/aboutus.htm

The taxi companies have an input to the The taxi Advisorary Council, the NTDU have an input to the TAC, some representatives of one have/had a vested interest in the other, most drivers contend, as with your statement ( they are private companies ) that you can't serve the interests of both
http://solocheck.ie/IrishDirectorInfo?directorName=TOMMYGORMAN&directorDOB=000c1879574412020d060c
this company currently has a permanent advert on this sitehttp://www.jobs.ie/ApplyForJob.aspx?Id=914006

Coincidently firms on the TAC were advising that they couldn't get enough taxi drivers to cover the multitude of work they had, now as was stated back in previous threads the Taxi Companies make the majority of their profits from radio rentals, so for every 100 drivers they engage at €100 per week gives them a revenue stream in excess of half a million per year, why wouldn't they be wanting more drivers....

There are numerous reasons why the taxi industry is in the turmoil of today and I find it disengenious of people to say "You only want to cap it because now you're in, you don't want further competition"
What the TDFC want is as stated on their webpage and I fully support it...

godtabh · 09-03-2009 9:37am

Terrontress wrote: »

I think that if taxi drivers lived with that threat hanging over their heads, the problems it would create would be immeasurable. Why would someone invest in a decent car when they could be kicked off the road in three months because a tester got out the wrong side of the bed that morning.

That can be said for nearly every profesional into days climate. I've spent a considerable amount of money in CPD as its the edge that I'll probablyneed to keep my job.

Out of interest of the taxt drivers who have posted here when did you become a taxi man?

I see there is another protest today. Thats what 6 in the last month? Doesnt look like you are getting any where with it (I wonder why?). Why not go on all out strike?

Taxipete29 · 09-03-2009 12:23pm

kearnsr wrote: »

That can be said for nearly every profesional into days climate. I've spent a considerable amount of money in CPD as its the edge that I'll probablyneed to keep my job.

Out of interest of the taxt drivers who have posted here when did you become a taxi man?

I see there is another protest today. Thats what 6 in the last month? Doesnt look like you are getting any where with it (I wonder why?). Why not go on all out strike?

I have been a driver for nearly five years.

The protest today is outside the regulators office while the advisory commitee is being presented with the long overdue Goodbody report into the economic situation in the industry. This protest seems to be have arranged very last minute so I doubt the turnout will be as large as previous ones.

I think all drivers are eager to find out what this report will recommend and if its recommendations(if any) will be implemented. This will determine im sure any further actions by drivers.

godtabh · 09-03-2009 12:35pm

Interesting reading

Seems a case of same old same old

dcr22B · 09-03-2009 12:52pm

kearnsr wrote: »

Interesting reading

Seems a case of same old same old

Did you look at the date of that article kearsnr? There is a difference this time around.

Taxi drivers back then were trying to protect investments, this time it's more about livelihoods and standards of service.

I wouldn't call that "same old, same old".

godtabh · 09-03-2009 1:12pm

dcr22B wrote: »

Did you look at the date of that article kearsnr? There is a difference this time around.

Taxi drivers back then were trying to protect investments, this time it's more about livelihoods and standards of service.

I wouldn't call that "same old, same old".

They were looking for a cap then and they are looking for a cap now.

Nothing has changed

Jip · 09-03-2009 2:41pm

Well details from the Goodbody report that taxi drivers think is the smoking gun in all this has been released and has recommended against a cap of any sort nor do they agree that taxi drivers earnings have dropped but they are working longer hours. But of course some driver on the News at 1 knows better and claims this is all wrong and has made some sly swipes at other taxi drivers that aren't supporting them.

godtabh · 09-03-2009 2:49pm

Taxipete29 wrote: »

I have been a driver for nearly five years.

The protest today is outside the regulators office while the advisory commitee is being presented with the long overdue Goodbody report into the economic situation in the industry. This protest seems to be have arranged very last minute so I doubt the turnout will be as large as previous ones.

I think all drivers are eager to find out what this report will recommend and if its recommendations(if any) will be implemented. This will determine im sure any further actions by drivers.

Jip wrote: »

Well details from the Goodbody report that taxi drivers think is the smoking gun in all this has been released and has recommended against a cap of any sort nor do they agree that taxi drivers earnings have dropped but they are working longer hours. But of course some driver on the News at 1 knows better and claims this is all wrong and has made some sly swipes at other taxi drivers that aren't supporting them.

I think the recomondations should be fully implemeted. What do you think Taxipete?

I'm sure you have a different spin to it if it had been the other way around.

I think its time to stop your protests.

Jip · 09-03-2009 3:04pm

Here's the details from the RTE website

No moratorium on taxi licences, report advises
Monday, 9 March 2009 13:12

A long-awaited report on the future of the taxi industry has advised against a moratorium on the issuing of new licences.

Taxi drivers protested for the sixth week in a row this morning demanding a restriction on licences.

But the Goodbody Economic report has said there is a decline in the number of new licences and that a moratorium would not be justified.

The report also says there is no evidence that taxi drivers' earnings are collapsing, but it acknowledges that they are working longer hours.

godtabh · 09-03-2009 3:11pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

A temporary moritorium is the only thing that TDFC are campaigning actively for, a call for a temporary moritorium is all that has been officialy released to the press, a temporary moritorium is the only thing that has been called on for the minister to action immediately.

Looks like its not needed

Taxipete29 wrote: »

There will be a moratorium put on licences, I guarantee it and if I am wrong so be it, I will come on here and apologise, but I am honest enough in my convictions to say that. Doubt any of you can say the same and its not a persacution complex becasue I really dont care what people think of me on an internet forum. What I do care about is people spouting nonsense about the free-market and in the next breath referring to drivers as "a stain on society" ( not you, but others). This only re-affirms my belief that you just dont like taxi drivers and it has nothing to do with if you feel we are right or not.

If there is a cap put in place in the morning there will still be more than enough taxis to meet demand even if the economy rebounds. 15k in dublin and there will always be drivers retiring/dying and just getting out so how will capping create any sort of "cosy cartel". The answer is it wont.

My argument is not full of holes at all and I dont see where you get that from, you are an armchair economist that thinks the free market is the only way forward in all industries and its not, as it fails to recognise socail responsibility and as I said earlier in the example of dublin bus.

The non armchair economist states that there is no need for a moratorium.

I think its about time taxi men eat their hats

paulm17781 · 09-03-2009 3:30pm

http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/eyaucwauauoj/ some more info on it.

So far so good. I'm sure this won't stop the whinging and protesting.

Spook_ie · 09-03-2009 4:53pm

Damn right it isn't going to slow or stop the protesting...
I haven't read the entire publication yet but I did take a note of this inferal

Driver earnings haven't declined but driver hours have increased, if my earnings haven't decreased why am I working extra hours to even try and stand still ?

murphaph · 09-03-2009 5:09pm

I'm sure we can all agree this INDEPENDENT report should now be implemented by the regulator. No moratorium on licences because the rate of issue has slowed. Economics are (as we all said) taking care of this issue through the theory of supply and demand.

Case closed. Taxi drivers must work longer hours to make the same money in a recession. No surprise there.

keefg · 09-03-2009 5:12pm

Seeing as it's the hot topic of the moment.......any takers?

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=100133

Terrontress · 09-03-2009 5:44pm

keefg wrote: »

Seeing as it's the hot topic of the moment.......any takers?

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=100133

Looks like a German taxi sign.

keefg · 09-03-2009 5:56pm

Terrontress wrote: »

Looks like a German taxi sign.

Me thinks the seller may have just used a library pic instead of taking a pic of their 1994 Toyota

Terrontress · 09-03-2009 8:08pm

keefg wrote: »

Me thinks the seller may have just used a library pic instead of taking a pic of their 1994 Toyota

Ha ha. Yeah, I thought it might be. Your assumption that it's a '94 Toyota made me laugh though.

Taxipete29 · 09-03-2009 9:15pm

kearnsr wrote: »

Looks like its not needed

The non armchair economist states that there is no need for a moratorium.

I think its about time taxi men eat their hats

I will wait until I hear a statement from Minister Dempsey before I apply the much needed sauce with which to eat my hat lol.

I would like to read the report before I fully make up my mind about it, but here are my thoughts from what I have heard so far.

Capping the licences is not off the table just yet, as the Oireachtas Commitee on Transport still feels there is a need, so as I said above I want to hear what the Minister( who ultimately has the final say) says about the report and how he will proceed.

From a personal point of view though I think the chances of this happening are slim, so I think the focus should be turned towards getting the much needed reform underway. I believe this would of been easier had a cap been put in place, but you work with the hand your dealt.

I listened to both the regulator and the economist from goodbodys this evening and one thing that struck me was the lack of acknowledgement of any sort of health and safety issues in regards to drivers working longer hours. The economist basically said it hasnt been an issue thus far, but to be honest Im not sure he would be the best person to be studying that element of the industry.

Taxi drivers were never going to be happy with this report if it ruled against us and I am sure I would take issue with some of the findings and maybe how they reached them, but I am not going to whinge about how wrong it is and we know better because at the end of the day thats not going to get us anywhere. Its time to change tactics.

Now is the time for the unions to step up to the plate and earn their fees and start fighting for the reform of the industry that is still badly needed.

1, Far more stringent testing of new drivers
2, Better vetting of drivers
3, Removal of part-time drivers ( health and safety issue)
4, More strict criteria for vehicles.
5, Better enforcement of regulations from both the regulator and the Gardai
6, A right of appeal for decisions made by the regulator

I think that if these issues are tackled then the ultimate objective will still be reached, which is a better regulated industry for both the drivers and the public.

As regards future protests which I know are inevitable after todays announcement, I am not giving up the fight for a better industry but I feel if the Minister says he will not cap the licences then that will be that and no amount of protesting will change his mind.

I think it would be counter-productive for drivers to push an issue which would be effectively closed in the eyes of the Minister and drivers should push for reform through serious lobbying of both the regulator and Minister, by the unions and for ALL drivers to participate in making their views known to both sides.

Terrontress · 09-03-2009 10:13pm

Taxipete29 wrote: »

I will wait until I hear a statement from Minister Dempsey before I apply the much needed sauce with which to eat my hat lol.

I would like to read the report before I fully make up my mind about it, but here are my thoughts from what I have heard so far.

Capping the licences is not off the table just yet, as the Oireachtas Commitee on Transport still feels there is a need, so as I said above I want to hear what the Minister( who ultimately has the final say) says about the report and how he will proceed.

From a personal point of view though I think the chances of this happening are slim, so I think the focus should be turned towards getting the much needed reform underway. I believe this would of been easier had a cap been put in place, but you work with the hand your dealt.

I listened to both the regulator and the economist from goodbodys this evening and one thing that struck me was the lack of acknowledgement of any sort of health and safety issues in regards to drivers working longer hours. The economist basically said it hasnt been an issue thus far, but to be honest Im not sure he would be the best person to be studying that element of the industry.

Taxi drivers were never going to be happy with this report if it ruled against us and I am sure I would take issue with some of the findings and maybe how they reached them, but I am not going to whinge about how wrong it is and we know better because at the end of the day thats not going to get us anywhere. Its time to change tactics.

Now is the time for the unions to step up to the plate and earn their fees and start fighting for the reform of the industry that is still badly needed.

1, Far more stringent testing of new drivers
2, Better vetting of drivers
3, Removal of part-time drivers ( health and safety issue)
4, More strict criteria for vehicles.
5, Better enforcement of regulations from both the regulator and the Gardai
6, A right of appeal for decisions made by the regulator

I think that if these issues are tackled then the ultimate objective will still be reached, which is a better regulated industry for both the drivers and the public.

As regards future protests which I know are inevitable after todays announcement, I am not giving up the fight for a better industry but I feel if the Minister says he will not cap the licences then that will be that and no amount of protesting will change his mind.

I think it would be counter-productive for drivers to push an issue which would be effectively closed in the eyes of the Minister and drivers should push for reform through serious lobbying of both the regulator and Minister, by the unions and for ALL drivers to participate in making their views known to both sides.

To be honest Pete, everyone on here has said repeatedly that the capping of licenses is not correct and reform through standards is the way forward. Your constant denigration of that has led to a good few heated exchanges.

Now you are stating that you see a way to move forward without the capping.

Is that going to be it for all taxi drivers?

the_syco · 09-03-2009 10:14pm

Taxipete29 wrote: »

1, Far more stringent testing of new drivers
2, Better vetting of drivers
3, Removal of part-time drivers ( health and safety issue)
4, More strict criteria for vehicles.
5, Better enforcement of regulations from both the regulator and the Gardai
6, A right of appeal for decisions made by the regulator

Agreed, except (1) should read "all drivers", and (5) should include fines for parking on a double yellow line.

Taxipete29 · 09-03-2009 11:03pm

Terrontress wrote: »

To be honest Pete, everyone on here has said repeatedly that the capping of licenses is not correct and reform through standards is the way forward. Your constant denigration of that has led to a good few heated exchanges.

Now you are stating that you see a way to move forward without the capping.

Is that going to be it for all taxi drivers?

I see a way to move forward without the capping because I think that capping is going to be fully off the table very soon. As I said above you work with the cards your dealt and it seems we are going to lose this praticular battle and it seems futile to me to continue to persue something your not going to win.

If the Minister were to turn around in the morning and go against the report and cap anyway I would be delighted as this in what I am in favour of, but thats very unlikely so to show that we are serious about reform I think we need to get over it and try to tackle the other issues and hopefully reach the same goal just by different means.

I dont think that other drivers are going to be as quick to change tactics as I am so tbh I expect a backlash of major protests in the coming weeks.

Just for those drivers that maybe havent seen, the Chairman of Taxi drivers for change David Meade passed away today. My thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends at this sad time.

Taxipete29 · 09-03-2009 11:08pm

the_syco wrote: »

Agreed, except (1) should read "all drivers", and (5) should include fines for parking on a double yellow line.

I said it before I would be happy to submit myself to any new testing procedure that was introduced.

I have also said before Taxi drivers are subject to the same rules and regulations as other road users.If you have an issue with the way the law is enforced on Taxi drivers, contact your local councillor and ask him to address the issue with the gardai, as it is up to them to enforce the law, but I will say gardai are becoming alot more stringent with application of the law in this regard.

mikemac · 09-03-2009 11:15pm

Taxipete29 wrote: »

but I will say gardai are becoming alot more stringent with application of the law in this regard.

Indeed they are. To only give Dublin examples:

Connolly Station rank is constantly backed up Amiens St and it even blocks the pedestrian crossing so pedestrians have to swerve around taxis blocking everyone :mad:
The gardai put down traffic cones, not that they needed to as they are double yellow lines. The drivers put the cones on the footpath.
Now the gardai ticket the drivers not in the rank, score!

Heuston rank Dublin is a pretty big rank but the drivers still go way back down that road outside the rank.
Sometimes they park on the footpath (get off the footpath!) or they park in the buslane which doesn't slow motorbikes or taxi's but it slow the 79x, my bus! And many other buses, carrying 80 plus people.
A push bike garda was there this morning and no problems at all, fair play garda. You weren't making new rules, only enforcing the ones already there

I understand DCC hasn't provided enough ranks so by all means lobby them for more rank space. Until then don't park in the bus lane or footpath

Taxipete29 · 09-03-2009 11:24pm

mikemac wrote: »

Indeed they are. To only give Dublin examples:

Connolly Station rank is constantly backed up Amiens St and it even blocks the pedestrian crossing so pedestrians have to swerve around taxis blocking everyone :mad:
The gardai put down traffic cones, not that they needed to as they are double yellow lines. The drivers put the cones on the footpath.
Now the gardai ticket the drivers not in the rank, score!

Heuston rank Dublin is a pretty big rank but the drivers still go way back down that road outside the rank.
Sometimes they park on the footpath (get off the footpath!) or they park in the buslane which doesn't slow motorbikes or taxi's but it slow the 79x, my bus! And many other buses, carrying 80 plus people.
A push bike garda was there this morning and no problems at all, fair play garda. You weren't making new rules, only enforcing the ones already there

I understand DCC hasn't provided enough ranks so by all means lobby them for more rank space. Until then don't park in the bus lane or footpath

I agree with you and I dont park in bus lanes or on the footpath, but I do have to disagree on one point which is to say that Heuston is a big rank, its tiny for the amount of people that flock through it every day, many of whom use taxis especially at peak times, but unfortunatly with limited space in that area Im not sure what could be done.

mikemac · 09-03-2009 11:31pm

True enough, with a few hundred people getting off a train at anyone time then maybe they could have made the rank bigger.
But they could have done that 6 months ago when they were working on the road, too late now!
And it does slow down buses to have taxis hanging off the back of the ranks.

My sympathy guys but a bus with 60 to 80 people takes priority over a taxi driver in a car waiting for a fare.

MOH · 10-03-2009 2:32pm

Taxipete29 wrote: »

1, Far more stringent testing of new drivers
2, Better vetting of drivers
3, Removal of part-time drivers ( health and safety issue)
4, More strict criteria for vehicles.
5, Better enforcement of regulations from both the regulator and the Gardai
6, A right of appeal for decisions made by the regulator

I definitely think 1 needs to be applied to all drivers, no just new ones.
On 3, I don't see why 3 is necessarily a H+S issue. Certainly, if someone's working a full 40+ hour week, then taxiing in the evenings, fatigue is going to be a factor, but not all part-time drivers are going to fall into this category.

One thing that struck me about the report is that for all the taxi drivers who say the regulator pays no attention to what they want, of the 2800 drivers surveyed for the report 2300 didn't bother to respond! No wonder drivers are complaining that figures such as current income are misrepresented.

Another interesting thing is the figures for Dublin: there are 5 times as many taxis as there were in 2000. But there's a lot less hackneys. Counting the total, there's only a little over twice as many cars. And from 1997 to 2008, number of taxi trips has risen by 82%. So while there's less trips per taxi, it's not as significant as the first figure might make it seem.

Terrontress · 10-03-2009 4:54pm

I think the health and safety element around part time drivers working too many hours is covered in existing legislation. I'm not sure about Ireland but there have been people in the UK prosecuted for causing an accident due to tiredness. If the law exists on the Irish statute book then there is no need to bring in this restriction.

It would be like imposing a restriction on not driving a taxi if you have been in a pub in the last 24 hours. The legislation is there to prevent drink driving. If you fall foul of that then you are dealt with on that basis.

Taxipete29 · 10-03-2009 10:05pm

MOH wrote: »

One thing that struck me about the report is that for all the taxi drivers who say the regulator pays no attention to what they want, of the 2800 drivers surveyed for the report 2300 didn't bother to respond! No wonder drivers are complaining that figures such as current income are misrepresented.

I have to say I was disgusted with this level of response, drivers really are their own worst enemies at times. Its not surprising the findings didnt see the problems as we see them, they werent bloody told.

Taxipete29 · 10-03-2009 10:17pm

Terrontress wrote: »

I think the health and safety element around part time drivers working too many hours is covered in existing legislation. I'm not sure about Ireland but there have been people in the UK prosecuted for causing an accident due to tiredness. If the law exists on the Irish statute book then there is no need to bring in this restriction.

It would be like imposing a restriction on not driving a taxi if you have been in a pub in the last 24 hours. The legislation is there to prevent drink driving. If you fall foul of that then you are dealt with on that basis.

The problem is there is no legislation that deals with them actually working those extra hours. They are entitled to work part-time and it is accepted as is stated in the report.

I find the assertion that part-time drivers are more likely to provide a peak-time service as ridiculous. Saturday night accounts for anything up to a third of a drivers earnings for the week. I know plenty of drivers dont work them but they tend to be older drivers who dont need to earn as much and work longer hours during the week and daytime saturday. The company I am affiliated with has 130 drivers and on sat night there is usually about 75 working. This is reflective of the normal % throughout companies in dublin that I would have knowledge of( which is quite a few).

scorpioishere · 10-03-2009 10:41pm

Too much taxi i don't think so. Last year i was getting taxi to go to work early in the morning. The day before i made my booking to a taxi company for 6am. 6am no taxi, i rang the company to ask where is the taxi, they said to me its on the way and i had an argument with the lady on the phone about that and she said there are no taxis available at the momend and shw will send one as soon as possible. It was suppose to be at my house at 6pm as i booked the day before. 6.10 the taxi arrived with 10 mins late and they still charged me 2 euros extras for the booking i made. 1 year it was going like that. Always having trouble about the taxis, the drivers ringing me at 4.30 in the morning to ask me where is my house situated.

I think they are all taking the piss by this protest. As i said before if you can't work, leave the job and give it to those who are capable of doing it. You have to go and drive and look for job and not sit and wait for job to come to you. :mad:

Spook_ie · 10-03-2009 11:26pm

confused-dazed wrote: »

just a couple of things i want to say here.
it wasn't to long ago that we had taxi drivers whinging,moaning and foaming at the mouth because the guards hit them at one of their prime illegal spots and dished out fines to all involved. i'm sure one of our taxi regs could mention the place, if not i'll post it in a few days. just seeing how short their memories can be.
now spookie nice pic you posted of the rank in o'connell street, blocking a 24hr rank. i heard a spat on the radio between tommy 'o'gorman and the guy/crowd that organised this protest. you going on about to many taxi's not enough work. then why did you stop other taxi drivers that weren't protesting from using the o'connel street rank. as well as all the other ranks that were blocked.
you posted earlier about me being in two places as once, do you not know who i am. i'm superman.:D
you see those arrows at junctions and on streets that are either turning left or right. they're not decorations they're there for everyone. not just joe motorist.
you see those double yellow lines on the roads ,not decorations either. just in case you dont know it means no parking.
as for taxi plate maybe you should set up your on school considering your studying a bit. a school for taxi drivers on how to read the following
"20.00 -06.00 taxi rank "or are these signs just for decoration as well.
damn in infants they teach you how to read a clock and by primany school they teach you the 24hr clock, but alas this doesn't comprehend in a taxi drivers brain what any of the signs i've mentioned mean ( these are but just a few by the way)
as for my poll.
i'm not going to reply to that thread. i set it up for joe public, maybe i should've put in bold." taxi drivers need not reply."
oh and if bus drivers go on strike i'll be doing a poll on them as well. just to be fair.at least they know how to drive. unlike other stereo type drivers i know :rolleyes:
as i've said before BIFFO needs more money in the coffers, now's his chance. let the guards enforce the rules of the road properly and to the law. damn with all the fines being dished out our taxes mightn't go up with all the money rolling in from fines. even better he could take us out of the recession.

I think you need to go to specsavers, that picture isn't of any taxis blocking O'Connell St rank, they happen to be driving in an orderly fashion down past the spire, perhaps this is why you seem to think lots of taxi drivers break laws, because you are unaware that the law isn't being broken. Must hope that you continue to use the bus rather than drive or cycle to work, you would seem to be another potential hazzard we could do without....

godtabh · 11-03-2009 9:36am

Taxipete29 wrote: »

I have to say I was disgusted with this level of response, drivers really are their own worst enemies at times. Its not surprising the findings didnt see the problems as we see them, they werent bloody told.

So only the taxi drivers who are making a living from it responded but their opinion doesn’t count?

I doubt it. I wouldn’t think that the report was based on responses only

Terrontress · 11-03-2009 11:47am

Taxipete29 wrote: »

The problem is there is no legislation that deals with them actually working those extra hours. They are entitled to work part-time and it is accepted as is stated in the report.

I find the assertion that part-time drivers are more likely to provide a peak-time service as ridiculous. Saturday night accounts for anything up to a third of a drivers earnings for the week. I know plenty of drivers dont work them but they tend to be older drivers who dont need to earn as much and work longer hours during the week and daytime saturday. The company I am affiliated with has 130 drivers and on sat night there is usually about 75 working. This is reflective of the normal % throughout companies in dublin that I would have knowledge of( which is quite a few).

Again this comes down to euros and cents. It seems that reason after reason is given for excluding new or certain groups of drivers citing health and safety, car standards, route knowledge etc etc. But each time the surface is scratched it is that the existing drivers want these groups excluded so that they can make more money. I'm sure every person working to make a quid would like to see his competition eliminated but that is not how things work outside of North Korea.

amtaxi · 11-03-2009 12:02pm

Have read the goodboy report - oh my god where do these guys get their figures?

The first comment I have is that in their report they say on a graph that there has been an increase of about 200 licences for Jan-Feb 09 - yet in their conclusions they say that as of end 2008 they are 27,429 licences and end of Feb 09 there are 27,383 licences - this figure suggests a decrease of of 46 licences - if these idiots can't do simple maths how are any of their other figures credible?

Another figure not highlighted is the transfer of licences from 2007 and 2008 has increased by almost 50% from 1328 to 1993 - this to me would indicated that like the rest of us these people could no longer make a living from driving a taxi!! Of course the idiots at goodbody put this down to retirements and other employment!!

This report suggests that the only ones working 75 hours a week are those with 2 jobs - not true for many of us!

Re driver earnings - where do they get their "independent" figures from suggesting that after costs we earn 40 grand - and since in the next paragraph they give the figures reported by taxi drivers in their survey they are calling us liars!! They base their figure of net earnings of €11 an hour on these independent figures - but using the realistic figures our hourly pay is more like €4.57 which almost half the minimum wage. They have twisted figures to suit their own agenda - suppose they thought us "uneducated" taxi drivers would not be able to decipher their badly laid out report!

In relation to their small piece on "Back to Work Enterprise Allowance" they leave out valuable information such as the level of grant given to participants and the fact the they retain social welfare payments for 4 years as well as extra allowances such as rent allowance, medical card, fuel allowance and back to school - thus giving these participants an unfair advantage to the rest of us! If I didn't have car repayments, rent etc to pay each week I wouldn't have to work such long hours! People getting redundancy are buying taxis thinking they will make a fortune - god help them - do they not realise that when they become self-employed and when they realise they can't make a living the social welfare won't entertain they for 12 months - good ploy by our government to save them money!!!!

I would also question their figures in relation to the number of taxis working in each county? How do they know this? I know of serveral rented cars whose owners live in one area yet actual taxi works in another!!

In relation to enforcement and the paragraph stating that the regulator's spot checks show low levels of non-compliance- god even the dogs on the street know how quickly taxis dissappear when the regulator guys are about - they don't have a clue how to do checks - they might as well use flashing signs to announce they're about!! Total Joke!!

murphaph · 11-03-2009 12:56pm

Maybe the taxi drivers who can't figure out where Goodbody are getting their figures from are not working hard enough for business.

Taxi driver protest

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