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Healthy baby aborted at 15 weeks

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    #152
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    How many of the recommendations made by Sir Sabaratnam Arulkumaran, Professor of Gynaecology at St George's London, have been implemented?

    Do you know *any* of the recommendations, apart from the one about clarifying the law on abortion?

    You seem to think that I'm anti repeal. I'm not even going to try and argue that because it's so preposterous.

    If you want to know how Savita Halappanavar came into this, read back in the thread.
    Anyone who gives a damn about women was concerned about the lack of provision for abortion in Irish law, as there was, AND the serious shortfalls described in the report into Savita Halappanavar's death -- quite an extraordinary series of medical negligence shortcomings.

    The woman is still being used in a political dogfight, despite abortion finally being liberalised, and nobody seems to care whether the direct causes of her death as described in the report have been addressed.

    That does not do justice to Savita Halappanavar, or to any woman.

    I don't think you're anti-repeal, I'm just taking issue with your tack here. For what it's worth while I disagree with you I appreciate and respect that this is a sincerely held good-faith opinion which you put forth despite it being "off message" so to speak, with the people with whom you generally agree in this wider debate.

    However I still think it's bullsh1t. I have read that report, I have read this thread.

    To my knowledge zero of the recommendations have been implemented but I haven't checked recently. Similarly the ancillary recommendations of the citizens' assembly on the 8th amendment such as universal access to free contraception and sex education reform have stalled. I have brought those issues up when I've been canvassed recently and with the exception of one candidate who was heavily involved with the Cork Together for Yes branch, they literally didn't know what I was talking about.

    The woman has become more symbol than person yes, but it's very clear where the people who can be most clearly seen to represent her and her views fall in this debate.


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    #153
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    But a normal abortion is fine . Isn’t that baby also deprived of life ?

    Looney lefties
    That person is anti abortion so I don't know why you're quoting them.


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    #154
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,281 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    A group of cells is all it was and unless they have other children they are not parents

    I'd say you'd be some comfort to the couple in question. Sometimes it's okay to empathise over pursuing an agenda.


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    #155
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,510 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Amirani wrote: »
    No, we don't is the answer. Would you like to spend more money to bring all this testing in-house within the HSE?

    100%. This should not be being done by private, for-profit organisations - and it certainly shouldn't be being done outside the state, by organisations outside the state. The CervicalCheck scandal should have been evidence enough that the model was flawed.
    From my reading of this case it was the two in-house tests gave the false result where the outsourced one provided the correct result?


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    #156
    Charles Ingles
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    But a normal abortion is fine . Isn’t that baby also deprived of life ?

    Looney lefties

    Ha first time I've been called a leftie


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    #157
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    Id like to post some things but I'd be banned, goodnight.


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    #158
    Charles Ingles
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    A group of cells is all it was and unless they have other children they are not parents

    Shame on you, that poor couple are going through a tragedy losing a child.
    They could read that awful post


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    #159
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Atoms for Peace wrote: »
    Id like to post some things but I'd be banned, goodnight.
    No offence, but pointless post.


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    #160
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Charles Ingles wrote:
    Shame on you, that poor couple are going through a tragedy losing a child. They could read that awful post


    At 15 weeks gestation it isn't a child.


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    #161
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Blaise Colossal Schwa wrote: »
    No offence, but pointless post.

    No offence, but pointless post.


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    #162
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    At 15 weeks gestation it isn't a child.
    *Drops an apple on the ground*

    OMG I just felled an apple tree


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    #163
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,674 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    At 15 weeks gestation it isn't a child.

    Try telling that to a woman who miscarried at 15 weeks, and wanted the baby.


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    #164
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    And here's the other side of the coin. My cousin and his wife were told that their baby likely had a genetic defect and wouldn't live long after birth. They chose to go ahead with the pregnancy given that there was a tiny chance that the doctors were wrong and the baby would be born healthy.

    He wasn't born healthy. He was put on life support and lived for 3 days before it was withdrawn. My cousin's wife had to go through nine months of pregnancy and still runs into people who ask her how the baby is, because they haven't heard what happened. They had to organise his funeral basically as soon as he was born. The mental turmoil must be enormous.

    Sure, it's easy with hindsight to criticise someone for jumping the gun, but most of the time, these prognoses are accurate.


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    #165
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Mrs OBumble wrote:
    Try telling that to a woman who miscarried at 15 weeks, and wanted the baby.


    I'm curious why do people make stupid suggestions like this?


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    #166
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    I'm curious why do people make stupid suggestions like this?

    They might not realize it’s stupid.


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    #167
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Does anyone else think its a bit strange that the couple had all these tests done on their foetus?
    I mean, are they standard nowadays, or is this something you pay extra for?
    Maybe the foetus was undersized or something?


    We have 3 kids, didn't even know if they were boys or girls until after they were born. The nurse looking at the ultrasound asked whether we wanted to know in advance, but we said no.


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    #168
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    recedite wrote: »
    Does anyone else think its a bit strange that the couple had all these tests done on their foetus?
    I mean, are they standard nowadays, or is this something you pay extra for?


    We have 3 kids, didn't even know if they were boys or girls until after they were born. The nurse looking at the ultrasound asked whether we wanted to know in advance, but we said no.

    I believe they are offered if the woman is over 35 and/or there is a known disability/FFA in the family.
    My cousin is only 24 and was offered the harmony test because another cousin has Down’s syndrome. Down’s syndrome is chromosomal, not genetic, but they still offered.


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    #169
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    I just wonder whether (prospective) parents are becoming too picky.
    The more screening tests you do, the more false positives are going to crop up.


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    #170
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    recedite wrote: »
    Does anyone else think its a bit strange that the couple had all these tests done on their foetus?
    I mean, are they standard nowadays, or is this something you pay extra for?
    Yes it's a little bit extra (unless it's now changed).

    We had a baby almost 1.5 years ago and baby's Mum had the blood screening. I would imagine most women have it done these days. I don't really understand why you wouldn't want to know, whatever your subsequent choice.

    Like, do you love surprises that much or..?


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    #171
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    I would imagine most women have it done these days.
    Maybe not in the public wards though.


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    #172
    Mena Mitty
    Registered Users Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭Mena Mitty


    My thoughts are with the parents and the thousands of parents down the years who were in a similar position as this couple, made the same decision and tonight are wondering 'what if'


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    #173
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Its very sad.

    Lets not let it happen again.

    I don't think i could ever have an abortion ...i am pro-choice for other people though.


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    #174
    bfa1509
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭bfa1509


    Is Edwards Syndrome even classified as a fatal fetal abnormality? I fear how blurry the lines are going to get.


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    #175
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 12,963 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Great article about right-wing hypocrisy when it comes to abortion.

    https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/abortion-is-immoral-except-when-it-comes-to-my-mistresses

    Earlier article, same idea, doesn't name names though:
    http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/articles/anti-tales.shtml


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    #176
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    bfa1509 wrote:
    Is Edwards Syndrome even classified as a fatal fetal abnormality? I fear how blurry the lines are going to get.

    A quick Google search confirms it is, also referred to as Trisomy 18.


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    #177
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    bfa1509 wrote: »
    I fear how blurry the lines are going to get.
    Obviously we are not going to accept this one, if it has Downs Syndrome.
    The eyes are too close together on that one.
    This one is too hairy.
    That one is black, I wonder how that happened?
    Nope, that's a girl. We already have one of those.


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    #178
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    recedite wrote: »
    Obviously we are not going to accept this one, if it has Downs Syndrome.
    The eyes are too close together on that one.
    This one is too hairy.
    That one is black, I wonder how that happened?
    Nope, that's a girl. We already have one of those.

    None of which are likely to lead to the death of the child either before birth or within 28 days so are not grounds for an abortion after 12 weeks.

    So not sure what point you’re trying to make.


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    #179
    Hobosan
    Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Hobosan


    amcalester wrote: »
    None of which are likely to lead to the death of the child either before birth or within 28 days so are not grounds for an abortion after 12 weeks.

    So not sure what point you’re trying to make.

    Yeah the point isn't completely clear at all.


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    #180
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,281 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    At 15 weeks gestation it isn't a child.

    But to parents expecting it matters, stop trying to brush away their loss to score points on a referendum debate that has already happened. It's the same as the people bitching that they decided to have the abortion in the first place.


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    #181
    jay0109
    Registered Users Posts: 2,669 ✭✭✭jay0109


    Aborting a healthy baby on the back of a misdiagnosis. I presume that's what the Liberals would call collateral damage....a small price to pay for giving a dying Catholic Church and Conservative Ireland another kick. And it did lead to the design of a cool emblem and a chance to party when the results were announced.

    Forward Ireland to a beautiful future....


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