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Healthy baby aborted at 15 weeks

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    #182
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    The Catholic church killed itself with its actions and subsequent cover ups. So sling your hook, your done just like the church.


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    #183
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    kowloon wrote:
    But to parents expecting it matters, stop trying to brush away their loss to score points on a referendum debate that has already happened. It's the same as the people bitching that they decided to have the abortion in the first place.


    You understand what a discussion forum is I trust.


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    #184
    jay0109
    Registered Users Posts: 2,669 ✭✭✭jay0109


    gandalf wrote: »
    The Catholic church killed itself with its actions and subsequent cover ups. So sling your hook, your done just like the church.

    I couldn't give 2 hoots about the Catholic Church. If you could read clearly, you'd see I wasn't defending it or bigging it up at all.
    I'm afraid your prejudices are getting in the way of a reasoned response


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    #185
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    jay0109 wrote: »
    Aborting a healthy baby on the back of a misdiagnosis. I presume that's what the Liberals would call collateral damage....a small price to pay for giving a dying Catholic Church and Conservative Ireland another kick. And it did lead to the design of a cool emblem and a chance to party when the results were announced.

    Forward Ireland to a beautiful future....

    Can you at least accept that the parents chose an abortion to minimise suffering, not to cause it? To minimise suffering they made the correct decision which was unfortunately based on flawed information.


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    #186
    jay0109
    Registered Users Posts: 2,669 ✭✭✭jay0109


    kowloon wrote: »
    Can you at least accept that the parents chose an abortion to minimise suffering, not to cause it? To minimise suffering they made the correct decision which was unfortunately based on flawed information.

    Can you accept that it was the introduction of abortion that will lead to more instances like this as parents hurry for test results before certain ages are reached for the baby in the womb. There can only be more cases like this


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    #187
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    jay0109 wrote: »
    Can you accept that it was the introduction of abortion that will lead to more instances like this as parents hurry for test results before certain ages were reached of the baby. There can only be more cases like this

    Introduction?
    Abortion has been around since the dawn of time, all over the world.
    So long as women have been getting pregnant, there have been women wanting to terminate.

    Older methods included wire hangers & scalding baths, more recent procedures involved travelling to the UK to avail of the service from their health system.
    Before repeal circa 10k Irish women a year were accessing abortion services, be it abroad or online, in this country.
    Abortion has always and will always be in Ireland.

    Before repeal those parents could have travelled to the UK as many thousands did before them.

    The question last May was weather we wanted to make it safe and regulated or not, and thankfully, most of society agreed it was necessary.

    Even with the 8th still in place those parents could have travelled to the UK and there would have been the same outcome.
    The real issue here is the lack of difinitive diagnosis given but don’t let that stop you blaming the repeal movement.


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    #188
    jay0109
    Registered Users Posts: 2,669 ✭✭✭jay0109


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Even with the 8th still in place those parents could have travelled to the UK and there would have been the same outcome.
    The real issue here is the lack of difinitive diagnosis given but don’t let that stop you blaming the repeal movement.

    They could have travelled but we don't know for sure that they would. Introducing it here to Ireland has definitely made it a less difficult choice for some.

    I don't recall the Repeal side highlighting the issue of problems with 'difinitive diagnosis' during the debate. I suppose everyone thought, that with our well known 'world class' health service, that wouldn't be an issue :rolleyes:

    Abortion is in and it's here to stay. All I'm saying is that a perfectly healthy baby had it's life ended. A baby it's parents wanted until they got a misdiagnosis.
    And he/she will not be the last by any long way. But thats 'progress' I suppose


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    #189
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    jay0109 wrote:
    Abortion is in and it's here to stay. All I'm saying is that a perfectly healthy baby had it's life ended. A baby it's parents wanted until they got a misdiagnosis. And he/she will not be the last by any long way. But thats 'progress' I suppose


    20/20 hindsight is great.


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    #190
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    You understand what a discussion forum is I trust.

    No, never heard of him.


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    #191
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    jay0109 wrote: »
    They could have travelled but we don't know for sure that they would. Introducing it here to Ireland has definitely made it a less difficult choice for some.

    I don't recall the Repeal side highlighting the issue of problems with 'difinitive diagnosis' during the debate. I suppose everyone thought, that with our well known 'world class' health service, that wouldn't be an issue :rolleyes:

    Abortion is in and it's here to stay. All I'm saying is that a perfectly healthy baby had it's life ended. A baby it's parents wanted until they got a misdiagnosis.
    And he/she will not be the last by any long way. But thats 'progress' I suppose

    But there is a strong possibility we would have had the exact same outcome prior to repeal with this situation, so your point is irrelevant.
    You can’t say for sure that it wouldn’t have happened, so I’m not sure why you keep bringing it up.
    The 8th wouldn’t have ‘saved’ this baby.

    Putting extra obstacles in the way of people in a crisis is not the answer, and it doesn’t make the choice any more or less difficult for those it actually effects, as you so tactfully put it.


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    #192
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,016 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    jay0109 wrote: »
    Can you accept that it was the introduction of abortion that will lead to more instances like this as parents hurry for test results before certain ages are reached for the baby in the womb. There can only be more cases like this

    How often do they happen in the UK then? Do they often go ahead and terminate before they've had the final results over there?
    Because it looks to me like a probable medical negligence case. Something that happens everywhere of course, though there do seem to be more than the average in Ireland.

    The question is how to identify the real causes so that it doesn't happen again, and maybe that's where the Irish healthcare system falls down.


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    #193
    heathledgerlove
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭heathledgerlove


    2WG53 YR231U


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    #194
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    This is like the Cervical Check scandal - why the f*ck do we have to outsource all this sh!t to private companies in foreign countries? Do we not pour enough feckin' money into the HSE every year for them to be able to hire Irish scientists and run their own labs?

    Nope doubt there's enough money in the kitty or people with the skills required to do the work over here.


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    #195
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,233 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    There are a pair of grieving parents who may stumble across this thread.

    Just a thought.


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    #196
    Jaster Rogue
    Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭Jaster Rogue


    jay0109 wrote: »
    Abortion is in and it's here to stay. All I'm saying is that a perfectly healthy baby had it's life ended. A baby it's parents wanted until they got a misdiagnosis.
    And he/she will not be the last by any long way. But thats 'progress' I suppose

    Couldn't agree more, and it only took less than 3 months of this 'progressive' legislation coming in for a 'mistake' to occur. That must be some kind of record. There will be plenty more 'mistakes', of differing circumstances coming down the tracks. Killing the most innocent, most defenceless, most vulnerable human beings in our society is not progression in my opinion. It's f**king disgusting. I know boards has a strongly liberal user base, judging by the thanks count on pro abortion posts, but there is still 1/3 of this country's population that are not blinded by our politicians and liberal media's agenda. Shame on anyone who voted yes to repeal. Big brave men and women taking the life of a little baby.


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    #197
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Jaster Rogue wrote: »
    Couldn't agree more, and it only took less than 3 months of this 'progressive' legislation coming in for a 'mistake' to occur. There will be plenty more 'mistakes', of differing circumstances coming down the tracks. Killing the most innocent, most defenceless, most vulnerable human beings in our society is not progression in my opinion. It's f**king disgusting. I know boards has a strongly liberal user base, judging by the thanks count on pro abortion posts, but there is still 1/3 of this country's population that are not blinded by our politicians and liberal media's agenda. Shame on anyone who voted yes to repeal. Big brave men and women taking the life of a little baby.

    You know nothing of the circumstances or issues of the strangers you would gladly take a choice away from.
    Seeing as you won’t be the one who specifically has to live with the consequences maybe dig deep for a bit of compassion and gratitude that you can say with confidence that no matter what life throws at you, you wouldn’t have an abortion.
    Good for you, I support that.
    Not everyone has that luxury, and many others who made such a claim ended up going back on their word when life takes an unexpected turn.

    Ideally there would be no abortion, but if it must happen it should be safe, legal and regulated.
    The days of deporting our problems to foreign healthcare systems are thankfully finally over.


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    #198
    branie2
    Registered Users Posts: 10,292 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    Awful!


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    #199
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,365 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    What's interesting about this thread is the amount of people shouting about how this case has nothing to do with the vote to repeal whilst banging on at length about repeal.

    This situation happened because of negligence. Anyone defending the actions of the doctor even in light of the fact that the parents (who know what's going on here as opposed to assuming things about the situation) are pursuing legal action is just being contrary.

    In relation to repeal, the toothpaste is out of the tube and dragging up old animosities and arguments is an exercise in futility and nothing else.

    Glazers Out!



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    #200
    votecounts
    Registered Users Posts: 2,617 ✭✭✭votecounts


    Shocking story, no words for the parents.
    Not surprised given the state of our Health Service:(


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    #201
    Phil.x
    Registered Users Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    Abhorrent process for the unborn health baby, i hope the parents can get over their throwaway actions.


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    #202
    Charles Ingles
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    Phil.x wrote: »
    Abhorrent process for the unborn health baby, i hope the parents can get over their throwaway actions.

    I'm a strong anti abortion person, but in no way are the parents to blame, they were given false medical advice, they suffering enough, it's support they need after the loss of their baby


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    #203
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Putting extra obstacles in the way of people in a crisis is not the answer, and it doesn’t make the choice any more or less difficult for those it actually effects, as you so tactfully put it.

    If the 8th hadn't been repealed those obstacles may have had another effect: Parents might make the decision to carry to term when the diagnosis was correct and the baby would suffer and eventually die anyway. It's my guess that there would be a lot more of those cases than the likes of this one.


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    #204
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Phil.x wrote: »
    Abhorrent process for the unborn health baby, i hope the parents can get over their throwaway actions.
    Lets explore your mind for just one daunting moment.

    What is your objective in saying such a nasty thing?
    Even if you believe their actions were throwaway (casual; not taken seriously), and regardless of how you got that notion, why would you deliberately come on here to post it?

    To be a nasty person? To upset someone else who might have had an abortion, is that the objective? Enlighten me. What's the desired outcome from posting that?


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    #205
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Phil.x wrote:
    Abhorrent process for the unborn health baby, i hope the parents can get over their throwaway actions.


    Prehaps one of the nastiest comments I have ever seen on Boards. You think anyone would consider abortion so flippantly. Pathetic.


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    #206
    Candamir
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    Incredible the number of posters here who are unequivocally blaming medical negligence, even though only scant second hand details are known.

    Just because someone says they are taking a legal claim, does not make anyone guilty of anything.

    And as for the ‘only in Ireland’ type comments, these decisions are taken with the same degrees of confidence routinely elsewhere. (This case was highlighted during the retain campaign https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/the-doctors-told-me-my-son-would-not-live-he-is-now-18-months-old-1.3500442?mode=amp)

    The only possible negligence I can see is if the treating doctor/s over emphasised the degree of certainly. Although most doctors would give their right arm for a test that was over 99.9% reliable. People have unrealistic expectations. There are very few certainties in life, unfortunately.


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    #207
    Phil.x
    Registered Users Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Prehaps one of the nastiest comments I have ever seen on Boards. You think anyone would consider abortion so flippantly. Pathetic.

    Listen, thats the new reality, they didn't want the baby once they heard it "wrongly" had a deficiency and decided to participate in this "new" throwaway process.

    With great powers comes greater responsibility.


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    #208
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Phil.x wrote:
    Listen, thats the new reality, they didn't want the baby once they heard it "wrongly" had a deficiency and decided to participate in this "new" throwaway process.


    Doubling down on the pathetic comment I see.


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    #209
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Candamir wrote: »
    Incredible the number of posters here who are unequivocally blaming medical negligence, even though only scant second hand details are known.

    Fair point, I'd be one of those people.


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    #210
    votecounts
    Registered Users Posts: 2,617 ✭✭✭votecounts


    Phil.x wrote: »
    Abhorrent process for the unborn health baby, i hope the parents can get over their throwaway actions.
    Disgusting comment


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    #211
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Candamir wrote: »
    The only possible negligence I can see is if the treating doctor/s over emphasised the degree of certainly. Although most doctors would give their right arm for a test that was over 99.9% reliable. People have unrealistic expectations. There are very few certainties in life, unfortunately.
    even though only scant second hand details are known
    You seem pretty unequivocal (see emboldened term) yourself there, for a report containing only scant information.

    What about the observations of obstetricians, referring to sonography as a diagnostic tool for Edwards' syndrome. You evidently think it impossible that it was negligently misinterpreted if it was used; but why?


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