Weapons Culture in Ireland

Samaris · 06-06-2015 12:33am #1

I was reading the Dillon Taylor thread and then about the case, one thing lead to another going through news links, etc, and it got me thinking about the sheer scale of difference between US culture as regards deadly weaponry on civilians and the situation here.

I'm curious as to Boardies opinions on it.

Have you ever fired a gun?

Actually, have you ever SEEN a working gun?

Have you ever carried a weapon when walking alone - be it pepper spray, knife, etc. Actually, I'm not sure of the legalities of that, so feel free to not answer that question if you don't want to!

Would you like to be able to freely carry a weapon?

Do you have any training in weapons?

Would you be more or less comfortable with a more openly "weaponised" society, more freedom to own a gun or carry it, the police being more likely to be armed - and consequently, more criminal gun use.

For me, I've never fired a gun. I've only recently actually held or even seen a working gun, and that was an ancient rifle. The only weapon I've ever carried walking alone was a stick, and maybe keys held between my fingers if I had some reason to be alarmed.

I have some training in weapons, but no sort of modern weapons. I could probably make someone go wtf if I happened to be holding a sword, but the likelyhood of that is pretty slim to none if I was attacked somewhere!

(Re-enactor). I'd be lethal to myself and everyone around me with a gun!

I think I would be less comfortable with a more weaponised society. I've been on the receiving end of threats before now, and I can't imagine things would have been any more comfortable with added weaponry (one knife hold-up, one assault). I certainly find the US gun culture disturbing, and I don't see any benefit to such a small country in having the police armed and given military training and/or the general thuggery having easier access to guns, etc. Civilian gun use seems to lead to a rapid increase in criminal arms use, and guns in Ireland are still, at the moment, relatively rare. I'm willing to hear arguments to the contrary though, this is just a conversation!

Tony Beetroot · 06-06-2015 12:35am

I like firing my gun regularly.

suicide_circus · 06-06-2015 12:38am

I'll cut you ese dont you know I'm loco?

Chloris · 06-06-2015 12:40am

I was talking to my dad about getting a gun yesterday. They moved to a house, to the country and we're thinking of getting a pair of .22 rifles so we can go shooting pigeons together. Never fired a gun before, but I shot a crossbow in Prague castle and got near the outside on the target, 80 points if that means anything.

Rough Sleeper · 06-06-2015 12:41am

I'd feel naked if I left my gaf without my trusty steak knife. I carry two if I'm going to a gig, you just never know when or where someone might look at you funny.

Nah, had a go of my Granda's shotgun before. Took a pot-shot at a rabbit and missed, which I was pretty relieved about. I think Ireland's attitude to weapons is fairly healthy overall. Anyone walking around with a blade is assumed be a tradesman or a scumbag, and anyone walking around carrying a concealed sidearm is assumed to be drug dealer or a paramilitary member rather than a concerned patriot, which is a okay with me

the evasion_kid · 06-06-2015 12:43am

I'm opening a crate full of ak-47s with a crowbar as we speak op

swiftblade · 06-06-2015 12:45am

Chloris wrote: »

I was talking to my dad about getting a gun yesterday. They moved to a house, to the country and we're thinking of getting a pair of .22 rifles so we can go shooting pigeons together. Never fired a gun before, but I shot a crossbow in Prague castle and got near the outside on the target, 80 points if that means anything.

You can't shoot pigeon with .22. You'd be looking for something like a .410 bore or a 12 gauge shotgun.

Junkyard Tom · 06-06-2015 12:46am

I clearly remember seeing holstered guns at eye height on the hips of cops as a kid. Where am I from?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 06-06-2015 12:47am

Never fired a gun, grew up in the country so would have seen farmers with them. I do carry the old blackthorn stick usually if I'm out walking out at home because there's a cúnt of a dog down the road, but that's about it

It's weird, I have quite a few American friends who've lived over here and some of them were really freaked out when they learned that the gardaí don't have guns, whereas I think I'd be pretty uneasy being in some states in America where guns are everywhere

Witcher · 06-06-2015 12:50am

People who've never fired or even held a gun will always be the first to tell you all about how to use them and what they can do, COD school of firearms education :pac:

Call Me Jimmy · 06-06-2015 12:51am

pew pew

SEPT 23 1989 · 06-06-2015 12:54am

I have fired a gun

big kick back off it

Tony Beetroot · 06-06-2015 12:54am

swiftblade wrote: »

You can't shoot pigeon with .22. You'd be looking for something like a .410 bore or a 12 gauge shotgun.

Maybe he wants to eat them?

nokia69 · 06-06-2015 12:58am

Happiness is a warm gun

bang bang shoot shoot

Samaris · 06-06-2015 1:00am

I've fired bows, at least (again, re-enactor!). Eventually I'll get around to firing a gun. I don't think I could fire at a live target though.

Edit: Unless my life was in danger. So, weirdly, I could probably more easily shoot a person threatening me than I could an animal that wasn't!

swiftblade · 06-06-2015 1:02am

Tony Beetroot wrote: »

Maybe he wants to eat them?

Shooting a .22 into trees is a no, no.

weldoninhio · 06-06-2015 1:08am

I've fired guns (shotguns, handguns), had guns pulled on me twice, once put to my head (American cops), I would never trust an Irish Garda with a gun.

nokia69 · 06-06-2015 1:11am

weldoninhio wrote: »

I would never trust an Irish Garda with a gun.

AFAIK if they are in uniform they don't carry them

I have always found them to be OK

weldoninhio · 06-06-2015 1:12am

nokia69 wrote: »

AFAIK if they are in uniform they don't carry them

I have always found them to be OK

I have never had a problem with a Garda, I've friends who are in the force. I would just not trust the run of the mill Gardai with guns.

c_man · 06-06-2015 1:16am

I've fired my granddad's and my uncle's guns when I was a teenager. Nothing since.

While I can kinda see the rationale of Americans wanting guns (due to the messed up nature of weapons and crime over there, and yes yes I know this would contribute to the circle) I wouldn't want to see anything like the gun culture they have, over here. I think Ireland has it right. Though maybe we could have tougher sentences for scumbags found bringing massive knives into concerts....

Samaris · 06-06-2015 1:22am

-As far as I know-, Irish gardai only carry guns as part of a special response unit. Not just patrolling the streets. This may have changed, but if it has, it's very recently.

Witcher · 06-06-2015 1:24am

Samaris wrote: »

-As far as I know-, Irish gardai only carry guns as part of a special response unit. Not just patrolling the streets. This may have changed, but if it has, it's very recently.

Detectives carry firearms and always have.

Samaris · 06-06-2015 1:25am

Strider wrote: »

Detectives carry firearms and always have.

Huh, I wonder why? I wonder if they count as special response units or something?

HardenendMan · 06-06-2015 1:25am

Guns are fun. Farmer friend has a shotgun and rifle for pest control. Fully licensed of course. We do have a bit of craic shooting at targets and such.

But I'd hate to live in a country where people by guns for the house just to "protect the family".

Samaris · 06-06-2015 1:36am

HardenendMan wrote: »

Guns are fun. Farmer friend has a shotgun and rifle for pest control. Fully licensed of course. We do have a bit of craic shooting at targets and such.

But I'd hate to live in a country where people by guns for the house just to "protect the family".

Same. It just seems inconceivable to me.

Although, because they share a language, I think we tend to forget that in sheer scale, one cannot really compare Ireland to the US. It's more like comparing the EU to the US. And consider the cultural differences between, say, the Ukraine [insert European country of choice] and Ireland.

ProudDUB · 06-06-2015 1:40am

Fired guns a lot when I lived in the US. Had a couple of friends who were gun enthusiasts, so going to the gun range was about as normal going to the pub really. Loved shooting one of my buddies Colt 45, which was his pride and joy. But the kick back killed my hand. I broke my thumb a few years back and it never healed, so the recoil really hurt it. So I had to stick to the more girly guns.

The range that we went too had an amazing collection of old guns, that you could rent out for 30 mins or so and fire away. They had some amazing WW2 Lugers and even one incredibly tiny gun that was supposed to have been used in the 1916 Rising. It was designed so as to fit into a ladies garter without detection. I would have loved to fire it, but the cost of the ammo was way too high. It couldn't handle modern ammo and the older stuff is in very short supply.

Had a lot of fun at the range, as it was such a safe and controlled environment. Would have probably been a lot more freaked out if it was a real life situation. Never could quite figure out why I shot so much better left handed, even though I am right handed. Weird that !

IrishTrajan · 06-06-2015 1:40am

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

Nah, had a go of my Granda's shotgun before. Took a pot-shot at a rabbit and missed, which I was pretty relieved about. I think Ireland's attitude to weapons is fairly healthy overall. Anyone walking around with a blade is assumed be a tradesman or a scumbag, and anyone walking around carrying a concealed sidearm is assumed to be drug dealer or a paramilitary member rather than a concerned patriot, which is a okay with me

Not entirely. Getting a weapon legally is a rather expensive procedure, and you have to re-apply every year for each different weapon. It is rather invasive and restrictive.

HardenendMan · 06-06-2015 1:42am

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Not entirely. Getting a weapon legally is a rather expensive procedure, and you have to re-apply every year for each different weapon. It is rather invasive and restrictive.

Does that not confirm his point of view though?! I see it as healthy because of the restrictions!

nokia69 · 06-06-2015 1:43am

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Not entirely. Getting a weapon legally is a rather expensive procedure, and you have to re-apply every year for each different weapon. It is rather invasive and restrictive.

I can see why thats the system

any thing else would be foolish IMO

Witcher · 06-06-2015 1:44am

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Not entirely. Getting a weapon legally is a rather expensive procedure, and you have to re-apply every year for each different weapon. It is rather invasive and restrictive.

You don't re-apply every year, it's every 3 years.

Chloris · 06-06-2015 1:45am

swiftblade wrote: »

Shooting a .22 into trees is a no, no.

We do intend on eating them. Why's firing them into trees problematic? I don't know anything about this sort of stuff. We might shoot some rabbits too because the place is overrun with them and they're eating all the eucalyptus plants we put down. But I have two pet rabbits, so I don't know if I'll have the stones to go through with that. Certainly not until I'm confident that I can get a clean kill.

Witcher · 06-06-2015 1:45am

Chloris wrote: »

We do intend on eating them. Why's firing them into trees problematic?

What happens if you miss? Where do you think the bullet is going to go?

Chloris · 06-06-2015 1:48am

Strider wrote: »

What happens if you miss? Where do you think the bullet is going to go?

Into the tree? It would hardly ricochet, would it?

IrishTrajan · 06-06-2015 1:48am

HardenendMan wrote: »

Does that not confirm his point of view though?! I see it as healthy because of the restrictions!

Not entirely, criminals can still get their hands on the weapons. I agree with the background and security checks, making sure you have adequate storage, but having to apply for a license for each gun is a bit silly.

Strider wrote: »

You don't re-apply every year, it's every 3 years.

My mistake.

nokia69 wrote: »

I can see why thats the system

any thing else would be foolish IMO

We don't have a large gun culture, so the unnecessary restrictions are more of a hindrance than anything else. If I recall correctly, there was talk of more restrictive laws being put in place to counter "mass shooting" from the Gardaí.

Strider wrote: »

What happens if you miss? Where do you think the bullet is going to go?

Wherever physics takes it

Witcher · 06-06-2015 1:49am

Chloris wrote: »

Into the tree? It would hardly ricochet, would it?

Assuming the tree is on the line of trajectory, what is it's sitting out on a branch with nothing but sky behind it, would you think it's safe to fire then?

HardenendMan · 06-06-2015 1:55am

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Not entirely, criminals can still get their hands on the weapons.

So you are saying that the restrictions and procedures are a bit OTT, and loosening them will lessen criminals ability to get guns? Don't get it.

And criminals that can currently get guns on the black market will never be stopped by strict gun control.

HardenendMan · 06-06-2015 1:57am

Strider wrote: »

Assuming the tree is on the line of trajectory, what is it's sitting out on a branch with nothing but sky behind it, would you think it's safe to fire then?

Please don't take advice on this forum for how to safely do some shooting.

Best advice I can give is to never go shooting with someone who is a bit of a messer. Especially if yee are having a few beers!!

Chloris · 06-06-2015 1:58am

Strider wrote: »

Assuming the tree is on the line of trajectory, what is it's sitting out on a branch with nothing but sky behind it, would you think it's safe to fire then?

I see what you're saying. I thought you might be worried about damaging trees or something. Well their house is on a hill and the pigeons are mostly in the hedges at the back of the house, which just has a sloped grass area directly behind it. I'm obviously going to do more research on hunting before going out, all guns blazing.

IrishTrajan · 06-06-2015 1:58am

HardenendMan wrote: »

So you are saying that the restrictions and procedures are a bit OTT, and loosening them will lessen criminals ability to get guns? Don't get it.

And criminals that can currently get guns on the black market will never be stopped by strict gun control.

No, I am saying that strict gun laws don't stop criminals getting them, all they do is provide needless hassle to responsible gun owners.

Background/security checks and making sure you have adequate knowledge/training and storage should be all that is required. Unscheduled Gardai inspections, likely.

nokia69 · 06-06-2015 1:59am

IrishTrajan wrote: »

We don't have a large gun culture, so the unnecessary restrictions are more of a hindrance than anything else. If I recall correctly, there was talk of more restrictive laws being put in place to counter "mass shooting" from the Gardaí.

well most farmers I know have a shot gun but thats not really "gun culture" the reason we have restrictions is because of the political problems in the north, and thats a good idea IMO

this is not a hindrance its common sense

Penfailed · 06-06-2015 2:00am

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

I clearly remember seeing holstered guns at eye height on the hips of cops as a kid. Where am I from?

The north?

IrishTrajan · 06-06-2015 2:02am

nokia69 wrote: »

well most farmers I know have a shot gun but thats not really "gun culture" the reason we have restrictions is because of the political problems in the north, and thats a good idea IMO

this is not a hindrance its common sense

Illegality has never stopped a criminal from getting a weapon. The IRA stole weapons from the Army a couple times, I don't think they care much about being arrested for illegally owning a firearm

At the risk of sounding like an ass, I'll post the "if making things illegal stops criminals getting them, we should probably making selling drugs illegal" argument.

There are needless hindrances in place for responsible gun owners, yes. I understand the need for reasonable restrictions (automatic weapons, background/security checks) but there is a great many unneeded restrictions which simply cause hassle for the responsible gun owners.

G_R · 06-06-2015 2:04am

I've actually got a licence for a shotgun which I use for shooting clays, and I've used a riffle & a handgun (which really aren't all that - riffle bores me to tears, and I'm just not accurate enough to enjoy shooting a handgun).

I live in an apartment in the city though, so I obviously can't keep the shotgun in the house, so I keep it in the gun club where I'm a member.

There's a lot of stupid rules though - I've got a shotgun and it's licenced. I've passed whatever tests the Gardai do on you to get the licence, so in their eyes, I'm ok to own a shotgun. Yet if I wanted to but a different shotgun instead after owning my one for a year or so, I'd need to apply all over again!

HardenendMan · 06-06-2015 2:07am

IrishTrajan wrote: »

No, I am saying that strict gun laws don't stop criminals getting them, all they do is provide needless hassle to responsible gun owners.

Background/security checks and making sure you have adequate knowledge/training and storage should be all that is required. Unscheduled Gardai inspections, likely.

Ah right got ya.

I dunno...I think getting a gun should be a big deal and be a pain. This stops people getting one for the sake of it. The more red tape, the less irresponsible gun owners there will be.

Do you know much about the laws? Something I never asked my gun owning fried - are we (his friends) actually legally allowed shoot his gun?

Witcher · 06-06-2015 2:07am

HardenendMan wrote: »

Do you know much about the laws? Something I never asked my gun owning fried - are we (his friends) actually legally allowed shoot his gun?

If you don't also have a licence for it, then you're not even allowed hold it legally speaking. If you were both on an authorised range it's a different story but just out in a field, you shouldnt be holding it. Sometimes it's necessary, if two lads are out shooting with their own guns for example and they need to cross a fence, one might unload the gun and hand it to the other guy to hold while he crosses it and then they'll switch to let him cross, that's necessary from a safety standpoint but legally speaking, they are breaking the law unless they have licences for the other gun they're holding. That's an example of the type of laws you deal with when you get into shooting.

Another example is that the spent brass/shell from a bullet/shotgun cartridge being fired is considered a live round of ammunition and being caught with one unless you have a licence for it is illegal. So if you were walking through a field where someone had fired a gun and you found a piece of brass or a shell and you picked it up and brought it home just as a curiosity, you have broken the law.

IrishTrajan · 06-06-2015 2:15am

HardenendMan wrote: »

Ah right got ya.

I dunno...I think getting a gun should be a big deal and be a pain. This stops people getting one for the sake of it. The more red tape, the less irresponsible gun owners there will be.

Do you know much about the laws? Something I never asked my gun owning fried - are we (his friends) actually legally allowed shoot his gun?

I don't know much about our gun laws, no. I like firearms (a by-product of being interested in the military and browsing such forums), and looking into buying one or two, but it was too much of a pain and I never actually got around to doing it.

I don't know many people who get guns "just for the sake of it". There are of course irresponsible gun owners, of course, which is why there should be mandatory checks to make sure you know what you're doing, but there are a great many pointless barriers to responsible gun owners.

nokia69 · 06-06-2015 2:25am

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Illegality has never stopped a criminal from getting a weapon

yes it has, of course it has

think about it

IrishTrajan · 06-06-2015 2:36am

nokia69 wrote: »

yes it has, of course it has

think about it

No, it really hasn't. The US Federal weapon bans did nothing to affect weapon ownership numbers, nor on violent crime rates. It could be attributed more to incomes/economic circumstances.

If making something illegal stopped criminals getting it, we should probably outlaw heroin.

HardenendMan · 06-06-2015 2:40am

IrishTrajan wrote: »

No, it really hasn't. The US Federal weapon bans did nothing to affect weapon ownership numbers, nor on violent crime rates. It could be attributed more to incomes/economic circumstances.

If making something illegal stopped criminals getting it, we should probably outlaw heroin.

It does lessen it though. Because of the illegality, criminals have to have contacts, money, put in effort. So only the really serious criminals have guns. There are exceptions - serious crim gives some lacky a gun to do a job for him. But it does stop the retarded low level criminals from getting them.

nokia69 · 06-06-2015 2:48am

IrishTrajan wrote: »

No, it really hasn't. The US Federal weapon bans did nothing to affect weapon ownership numbers, nor on violent crime rates. It could be attributed more to incomes/economic circumstances..

we don't live in the US

only the most extreme Irish criminals have guns, in the US every cheap dime store hood can get his hand on serious fire power

IrishTrajan · 06-06-2015 2:48am

HardenendMan wrote: »

It does lessen it though. Because of the illegality, criminals have to have contacts, money, put in effort. So only the really serious criminals have guns. There are exceptions - serious crim gives some lacky a gun to do a job for him. But it does stop the retarded low level criminals from getting them.

Not from getting them, you can probably find a gun in Dublin quite easily (it's probably used in a murder though) if you know where to look.

Even so, making it unnecessarily stringent for responsible gun owners (who are the only ones going to be affected by such legislation) is naive.

Weapons Culture in Ireland

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