Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

KCross · 09-11-2016 11:54am

Soarer wrote: »

So the €32k would be pre the SEAI grant, but post VRT relief?

Thats my guess. Please let us know what he says.

isnottheword · 09-11-2016 12:58pm

highdef wrote: »

Hilarious....as we all know that it certainly can and certainly does charge whilst driving.....everytime you take your foot off the accelerator whilst moving.

Perhaps theyre a little bit ahead of their time with their thinking

LINK

macnab · 09-11-2016 1:50pm

unkel wrote: »

Leaf is only sold with the 6.6 kw charger these days and I could have brought one home for €20k incl metallic paint all in

I would guess that quote was for the lowest spec XE model, which I think only comes with a 6.6kw charger.
The SV and SVE spec Leafs come standard with a 3.3kw charger, the 6.6kw is still a €900 optional extra AFAIK.

unkel · 09-11-2016 2:12pm

The lowest spec car kinda like having the highest spec?

Possible of course, but it doesn't make sense though, does it?

n97 mini · 09-11-2016 10:45pm

unkel wrote: »

The lowest spec car kinda like having the highest spec?

Possible of course, but it doesn't make sense though, does it?

A lot of people on the various FB groups seem to have met the chap from Hyundai with the Ioniq at charge points in the last week, myself included.

Nice car, lots of toys, base model *I think* will be slightly more expensive than the Leaf. But more toys are standard, if that's your thing.

Nice looking car too. I've grown used to the Leaf, so the Ioniq didn't strike me as a must have in the looks dept.

28kw battery and a claimed 280km range. That's hugely better efficiency per km than the Leaf so I'll believe it when I see it. I would expect in the real world it won't better the 30kw Leaf by much.

Regen braking has 4 different settings which is an improvement over the current Leaf (the regen in the Civic IMA is prolly better than the Leaf), so maybe that's where their numbers are coming from.

Charges from CCS points so it's competing with the Leaf for scarce DC chargers, not good. Can charge off AC but not sure at what rate. I don't think it rivals the Cloe, tho, and is prolly 6.6kw.

09-11-2016 10:52pm

The Ioniq has a 7 kw charger as standard.

Efficiency won't be much if at all different than the current gen leaf with heat pump.

The 280 Kms figure comes from the farcical NEDC test which is a laboratory test that does not reflect real life driving.

Nothing affordable will beat the 40 Kwh Zoe for range. It also has a superb 44 Kw charger on board and can charge at 22 Kw from the AC charge points, extremely useful.

Zoe will have a real life 230-280 kms range.

n97 mini · 09-11-2016 11:06pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Ioniq has a 7 kw charger as standard.

I was close enough. Though 7kw is not really good enough in this day and age.

Mad_Lad wrote:

The 280 Kms figure comes from the farcical NEDC test which is a laboratory test that does not reflect real life driving.

If I had thought of it I should have asked him what was *he* getting.

Mad_Lad wrote:

Nothing affordable will beat the 40 Kwh Zoe for range. It also has a superb 44 Kw charger on board

Pity about the leased battery tho. Would put me off...

09-11-2016 11:29pm

There is no info yet as to whether the 40 Kwh battery will be leased or not.

n97 mini · 09-11-2016 11:57pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is no info yet as to whether the 40 Kwh battery will be leased or not.

Sure. But as long as it's leased a lot of people will see it as (another) barrier to entry.

galwaytt · 10-11-2016 12:08am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've had no single issue with zero noise Ev over almost 6 years, 4 years Prius and nearly 2 driving the Leaf.

At 10 Kph and below people won't really hear and I am aware of this, this is why I beep the horn and most people don't seem to care or find it offensive in any way if it's just a tiny blip.

Quiet electrics is a non issue as far as I'm concerned.

I keep repeating that the real threat is people walking out in front of cars paying attention to their mobiles, with ear phones in they are not aware of their surroundings.

I've had an instance in the Woody's car park in carlow Town several months ago where an elderly lady was walking with her young Granddaughter texting and had no control over the child, not holding her hand and texting, she would have walked out under me if I hadn't have blipped the horn, the Child had more sense.

The U.S are supposed to pass a law to make electrics as noisy as petrol cars idling at slow speeds with no possible way to turn this noise making device off , absolutely ridiculous , one of the major benefits of electrics is the removal of noise pollution, yes noise is considered pollution as well as light.

Imagine the noise of thousands of cars making different electronic whines and noises ? it will be absolutely head wrecking.

Worse of all the anti ev brigade in the U.S want the noise makers to stay on even when the car is stopped in traffic.

I disagree: I've had a near miss with a pedestrian in a borrowed hybrid, driving on electric.

I'd draw a comparison to motorcycles and the slogan "loud pipes save lives" - on my own bike filtering etc is never an issue: on my wife's bike, a whisper quiet BeeEmm, pedestrians are constantly stepping out in front of it.
Harley are launching an EV bike, and it's deliberately got a sound in it.

n97 mini · 10-11-2016 12:13am

galwaytt wrote: »

I disagree: I've had a near miss with a pedestrian in a borrowed hybrid, driving on electric.

I'd draw a comparison to motorcycles and the slogan "loud pipes save lives" - on my own bike filtering etc is never an issue: on my wife's bike, a whisper quiet BeeEmm, pedestrians are constantly stepping out in front of it.
Harley are launching an EV bike, and it's deliberately got a sound in it.

I think it's about managing expectations. People now associate engine noise and cars, but with time that'll change. Personally I don't trust my ears to look towards the right for me anymore. I use my eyes now.

10-11-2016 1:20am

n97 mini wrote: »

Sure. But as long as it's leased a lot of people will see it as (another) barrier to entry.

Depends, if you're doing little mileage it actually makes sense to lease the battery.

10-11-2016 1:25am

galwaytt wrote: »

I disagree: I've had a near miss with a pedestrian in a borrowed hybrid, driving on electric.

I'd draw a comparison to motorcycles and the slogan "loud pipes save lives" - on my own bike filtering etc is never an issue: on my wife's bike, a whisper quiet BeeEmm, pedestrians are constantly stepping out in front of it.
Harley are launching an EV bike, and it's deliberately got a sound in it.

I never said pedestrians don't walk out in front of me, I am conscious of the fact and use the horn if people can't use their eyes.

Pedestrians walked out in front of me when I drove ICE only cars/vans, the majority of pedestrians are knocked down/killed by ICE cars, so should we install big work van like amber flashing lights on every vehicle ?

I say make pedestrians take their headphones out and make it illegal to use mobiles on public streets, foot paths etc, this would do far more for safety.

unkel · 10-11-2016 10:41am

So back to the Ioniq. Any news of when the launch is? I added my email to the Huyndai website but haven't heard back. I wouldn't mind having a good look and a drive.

Villain · 10-11-2016 11:03am

Should be in Garages this weekend.

n97 mini · 10-11-2016 11:20am

unkel wrote: »

So back to the Ioniq. Any news of when the launch is? I added my email to the Huyndai website but haven't heard back. I wouldn't mind having a good look and a drive.

I believe it's today. Press event was yesterday.

Scottie99 · 10-11-2016 12:42pm

https://youtu.be/0kZgYdKmIKA

Fullycharged review..

grogi · 10-11-2016 12:53pm

Scottie99 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/0kZgYdKmIKA

Fullycharged review..

Is it just me, but this guy just drives me crazy?

Alun · 10-11-2016 12:56pm

grogi wrote: »

Is it just me, but this guy just drives me crazy?

Hey, don't knock Kryton!!!

unkel · 10-11-2016 1:01pm

Scottie99 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/0kZgYdKmIKA

Fullycharged review..

So in the UK it's £700 cheaper than the 30kW Leaf

The latter is €27k list here. Does that mean we can expect the Ioniq to list for about €26k or does our VRT / VAT / subsidies distort this comparison?

DrPhilG · 10-11-2016 1:27pm

My friend just sent me a pic, the Hyundai dealer he works in has their demo for test drives available now.

Only has the hybrid though, not BEV.

10-11-2016 1:39pm

So you actually have the option not to use inefficient regen ? excellent, about time. The flappy paddels are a great idea, brake when you need it coast when you don't.

I still wouldn't buy it, I'd rather wait and see what Nissan comes up with for 2018.

I do like it though and at 10:55 you can see the efficiency figures 4.3-4.9 Miles per Kwh, 4.9 over 140 miles trip. So it could indeed probably go to 120 miles before being low on battery but what speeds was it driven ? my best in the Leaf was 13.1 Kwh/100 kms or 7.63 Kms per Kwh or 4.74 miles per Kwh, however that was driving at 100-110 kph for about 65 kms and 60-100 Kph for the return 65 kms on some back roads.

If Renault offer the 40 Kwh battery with no lease in Ireland then I think it would be a bit mental to go with 28 Kwh unless you really don't like the Zoe and must have an EV this year.

I expect deliveries for December / January ? that's not long to wait until Leaf II comes along and I would bet this will be announced in Detroit in January, pure speculation of course.......

Hyundai did say they will offer battery upgrades as they see fit, however this should happen at launch if they can do it.

10-11-2016 1:39pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

My friend just sent me a pic, the Hyundai dealer he works in has their demo for test drives available now.

Only has the hybrid though, not BEV.

Really, why's that ?

DrPhilG · 10-11-2016 1:45pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Really, why's that ?

He says there are supply issues and not too many of the BEV around yet.

Bear in mind I live in the forgotten county so Dublin dealers will probably have more joy.

10-11-2016 1:50pm

Or they probably though the BEV won't sell and decided to order more Hybrids ? as far as Irish people are concerned a car = having an engine.

unkel · 10-11-2016 2:36pm

Anybody any idea of the room in the back in either the Ioniq or the Leaf? Have a 8, 10 and 12 year old. Youngest still uses booster cushion. Never tried in the Leaf either.

Now we are used to big cars (BMW 5-series, Saab 9-5, Jaguar S-Type), so the family might find the car too cramped anyway, but if we're not gonna fit, I can drop the idea right now until bigger reasonably priced EV become available...

Padraig Mor · 10-11-2016 3:07pm

unkel wrote: »

Anybody any idea of the room in the back in either the Ioniq or the Leaf? Have a 8, 10 and 12 year old. Youngest still uses booster cushion. Never tried in the Leaf either.

Now we are used to big cars (BMW 5-series, Saab 9-5, Jaguar S-Type), so the family might find the car too cramped anyway, but if we're not gonna fit, I can drop the idea right now until bigger reasonably priced EV become available...

Good space in the Leaf. Not noticeably smaller than my old Lexus GS.

isnottheword · 10-11-2016 10:54pm

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Good space in the Leaf. Not noticeably smaller than my old Lexus GS.

More spacious than you would imagine. However, with the backdrop of what you've been used to driving, it's not really a fair comparison. Worthwhile dropping by a dealership and sitting in to one - to get a better idea.

Soarer · 10-11-2016 11:18pm

Specs and prices now on Hyundai.ie

11-11-2016 10:26am

I think it's a bit yesterday offering 28 Kwh, why not 40 ? and it's pricey for 28 considering Renault are offering 40 Kwh for less, yes different class of car and the Ioniq is far nicer and cool gadgets, but 28 Kwh is a major disappointment and I am betting they will have a 40 + Kwh option by the end of next year or possibly sooner and 28 Kwh could be just until production ramps up and they might be testing the water but they could have offered more Kwh as an option at least.

I really think that we're on the verge of that magical range number by this time next year and if it were I looking to buy new now I would hold off at least until 2018, it's not that long. But I've no doubt whoever buys the Ioniq will be happy with it.

unkel · 11-11-2016 10:51am

€28.5k is higher than I expected. Plus metallic so about 29k. Say €25k cash (14% discount. I doubt I could get more than that)

That's a lot more than the €20k cash I could get the Leaf (metallic, 6.6 kw) home for

KCross · 11-11-2016 11:20am

unkel wrote: »

€28.5k is higher than I expected. Plus metallic so about 29k. Say €25k cash (14% discount. I doubt I could get more than that)

That's a lot more than the €20k cash I could get the Leaf (metallic, 6.6 kw) home for

That €20k was for the XE Leaf though, wasnt it? Not a fair comparison.

The Ioniq is the same spec as a Leaf SVE 30kWh with 6.6kW charger etc. When comparing it to that its slightly cheaper than a Leaf.

The Leaf SV is the most popular. Why didnt they offer a lower spec Ioniq to give a cheaper entry point. The big question is, will people spend the extra money for an Ioniq. I dont think they will. People dont value the price of the gadgets and/or dont have the money so I dont think there will be droves of people buying the Ioniq at €28k for a 28kWh battery.

It really needed a 40kWh battery to make it stand out. It could be a tough start for Hyundai and based on the previous post from one of their salesmen they dont have much knowledge about EV's either.

Another gotcha right now is lack of CCS charge points. Only about half the FCP's have CCS. Thats a big downside to buying a CCS car and who knows how long it will take eCars to start rolling out more CCS across the country.

unkel · 11-11-2016 11:50am

KCross wrote: »

That €20k was for the XE Leaf though, wasnt it? Not a fair comparison.

It is a fair comparison to me. I am the customer. I'm not going to spend 25% more for functionality I don't need (although the car is much better looking

)

The extra range is useful, but not €5000 useful to me. The extra spec is nice, but not necessary (although I do like the wireless charging. Once you get used to that, it's hard going back)

I'm not a pioneer like most people in here who already own an EV. I am an early adaptor, I'm willing to overcome drawbacks with using an EV, but I need to be very well compensated for that (subsidy, low tax, low running cost, low purchase price). Most of this is available in Ireland, but the purchase price must be extremely sharp for me to take the plunge

If EV don't get enough early adaptors like me, the technology will not take off (as in 20% EV in the next 5 years)

11-11-2016 11:52am

This is where you need 60+ kwh so you rarely have to depend on public charging.

Most people won't be changing to EV until range is a minimum of 300 Kms, and there are far more models to choose and costs come down. So using public chargers will be rare enough and if you have to pay for it it most of your charging will be at home and 300+ Kms on your home charger is a lot.

11-11-2016 11:55am

I'd imagine Hyundai priced the car well with all the tech and have one spec to make the car appear a lot more attractive they do not realise or care that in Ireland we have to pay very high taxes and this is the real issue.

subtract 23% from the cost of any car and they become a lot cheaper.

28K - 23% = 21,560 so the real issue is the disgraceful amount of tax we pay.

11-11-2016 11:55am

I'd imagine Hyundai priced the car well with all the tech and have one spec to make the car appear a lot more attractive for an EV, they do not realise or care that in Ireland we have to pay very high taxes and this is the real issue.

subtract 23% from the cost of any car and they become a lot cheaper.

28K - 23% = 21,560 so the real issue is the disgraceful amount of tax we pay.

11-11-2016 11:56am

As far as I'm aware they still apply VRT to electrics @14% after VAT and then the scum bags subtract 5 K grant.

grogi · 11-11-2016 12:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd imagine Hyundai priced the car well with all the tech and have one spec to make the car appear a lot more attractive they do not realise or care that in Ireland we have to pay very high taxes and this is the real issue.

subtract 23% from the cost of any car and they become a lot cheaper.

28K - 23% = 21,560 so the real issue is the disgraceful amount of tax we pay.

VAT is paid all over the Europe - that's not really the issue of high prices in here. Typically VRT is, but this hardly applies to EV with the 5 grand grant.

KCross · 11-11-2016 12:04pm

unkel wrote: »

It is a fair comparison to me. I am the customer. I'm not going to spend 25% more for functionality I don't need (although the car is much better looking )

The extra range is useful, but not €5000 useful to me. The extra spec is nice, but not necessary (although I do like the wireless charging. Once you get used to that, it's hard going back)

Thats why Im saying they should have introduced an entry level model for that exact reason. Some people want cheap and cheerful. So take out the gadgets and give it to them at an affordable rate.... thats what the XE Leaf is.

11-11-2016 12:09pm

Yeah they should cater for the Dacia buyers lol

11-11-2016 12:10pm

grogi wrote: »

VAT is paid all over the Europe - that's not really the issue of high prices in here. Typically VRT is, but this hardly applies to EV with the 5 grand grant.

Irish VAT is too high.

KCross · 11-11-2016 12:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah they should cater for the Dacia buyers lol

What does that mean?
Dont you want Dacia buyers to ditch their diesels too?

Deleted User wrote: »

Irish VAT is too high.

Probably. But if you reduce it, taxes have to go up somewhere else.

Villain · 11-11-2016 1:49pm

Just had a look at the Hybrid model, nice car!

Good size with a decent boot and plenty of spec, they have an EV version too but it wasn't out on floor yet, will have a look at it tomorrow as the dealer wants the opinion of an existing EV driver

He said they are seeing 180km to 200km on the EV which would be good for 28kw!

Villain · 11-11-2016 1:49pm

Just had a look at the Hybrid model, nice car!

Good size with a decent boot and plenty of spec, they have an EV version too but it wasn't out on floor yet, will have a look at it tomorrow as the dealer wants the opinion of an existing EV driver

He said they are seeing 180km to 200km on the EV which would be good for 28kw!

Water John · 11-11-2016 2:10pm

It's only my opinion, but hybrids seem for people who cannot make the big leap. It's made for that market, a market that should in a sort time disappear.

Great to think that models non offer will mature to full scale needed in less than 2 years.

Villain · 11-11-2016 2:35pm

Water John wrote: »

It's only my opinion, but hybrids seem for people who cannot make the big leap. It's made for that market, a market that should in a sort time disappear.

Great to think that models non offer will mature to full scale needed in less than 2 years.

I see a PHEV as my best option for the next 5 years or so, cost of a large battery EV is going to be a blocker for most for many years, it will be 2019 before 60kw really start to sell in numbers then another 3 or 4 years before any second hand ones are available in numbers so easily 5 years or more before they take off here

Water John · 11-11-2016 2:49pm

Accept your point, Villian. Agree it will take EV, 5 years to reach down to 2nd hand market.

KCross · 11-11-2016 3:20pm

Water John wrote: »

It's only my opinion, but hybrids seem for people who cannot make the big leap. It's made for that market, a market that should in a sort time disappear.

Great to think that models non offer will mature to full scale needed in less than 2 years.

Im wondering will there be a market for PHEV, and Hybrids in general, longer than that. Some use cases I see....

1) Salesmen? Even with a 60kWh would that be enough for a days driving particularly since they wont be buying a small EV. They will be still buying their executive models which will be heavier so 60kWh wont go as far. Throw in some stock, sales materials etc in the boot.

2) If you take ferry trips? Lots of families take the car to UK or France once a year. I personally wouldnt want to take that trip in a pure EV for a while to come. Hiring an SUV for 2-3 weeks isnt economical.

3) It will be a long time before they get 300km range from a big SUV. A fully loaded 7 seater on a motorway at 120kmh wont get very far even with a 60kWh battery.

I think PHEV will be around for a while yet. The 60kWh's we are hoping for in 2018 are still small family hatch range of cars.

Water John · 11-11-2016 3:34pm

It'll probably take a change in battery technology to make that further jump.

11-11-2016 3:37pm

KCross wrote: »

What does that mean?
Dont you want Dacia buyers to ditch their diesels too?

Probably. But if you reduce it, taxes have to go up somewhere else.

No taxes are too high in general, certain taxes are too high, lower VAT will encourage spending = more money in the local economy.

I was referring to Dacia being bog basic and some people like that.

Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

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