Burning the Poppy - A thread.

markodaly · 11-11-2019 1:26am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You entered the thread - arguing and getting hot and bothered. Your disconnect from your own behaviour is a giggle tbh.

Well you know what Mark Twain said about arguing with idiots.

markodaly · 11-11-2019 1:26am

Since its officially the 11th of November.

markodaly · 11-11-2019 1:27am

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2019 1:28am

katiek102010 wrote: »

I worked in the Civil service in the UK and it was rammed down our throats to wear them.

I refused as did a number of other people, Aisan and irish My managerr was all hot and bothered by the refusal and god love the ignorant dickhead but he could not understand that ireland was not park of the UK and needed a little geography and history lesson.

Easter lillys are a big no no and actually seen as some kind of terrorist emblem. Its the UK all over Litterly tries to wipe out any history that puts the in a bad light.

My company my husband worked for bought them directly from the British legion and they were expected to wear them daily from 1st november

I don't care who wishes to wear a poppy, it is the sort of behaviour above that I object to. And it is spreading.

katiek102010 · 11-11-2019 2:07am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't care who wishes to wear a poppy, it is the sort of behaviour above that I object to. And it is spreading.

It's a race thing now, wear it or get out of our County.

A symbol for Tommy Robinson yobs

markodaly · 11-11-2019 2:08am

katiek102010 wrote: »

It's a race thing now, wear it or get out of our County.

A symbol for Tommy Robinson yobs

A bit of an exaggeration I think.

Kermit.de.frog · 11-11-2019 2:17am

If people want to wear it let them.

Most Irish people don't wear it so I don't know why there is fuss every year.

Better Than Christ · 11-11-2019 2:30am

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1193631248402571264

Top trolling.

katiek102010 · 11-11-2019 3:10am

markodaly wrote: »

A bit of an exaggeration I think.

I have only recently moved back from the UK. In my experience it is. Just look at the way that soccor player was treated over not wearing one. It happens in normal everyday instances to normal people too.

The digs at the school gate, oh have you forgotten something etc.

You are expected to wear one and if you don't, you are offensive

windy shepard henderson · 11-11-2019 3:28am

I believe there should be some sort of remembrance here too, a lot of people were roped into the ww1 conflict through propaganda here not to mention Irish in Australia, I don't like the way it's portrayed in this country

I would be the first person to speak out against the British army but I think people must realise that this was a horrific war and a different time

windy shepard henderson · 11-11-2019 3:38am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't care who wishes to wear a poppy, it is the sort of behaviour above that I object to. And it is spreading.

To be fair it was always there, there are some seriously working class area's of England that you could teach nothing to other than hate, however socially it has almost become popular through social media that's what is driving it now

katiek102010 · 11-11-2019 3:42am

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

I believe there should be some sort of remembrance here too, a lot of people were roped into the ww1 conflict through propaganda here not to mention Irish in Australia, I don't like the way it's portrayed in this country

I would be the first person to speak out against the British army but I think people must realise that this was a horrific war and a different time

We had the Easter Lilly here to remember the irish that lost their lives in conflict.

Unfortunately due to certain circumstances it has been tarred as a pro terrorist symbol

tdf7187 · 11-11-2019 6:05am

The conservative historian David Starkey has criticised the trend towards "poppy fascism":

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7671361/Historian-David-Starkey-says-Remembrance-Sunday-crazy-religious-ritual.html

mobileforest · 11-11-2019 8:34am

Damien360 wrote: »

I think it covers WW1 also and all subsequent British soldiers lives in various conflicts. Is it not principally Battle of the Somme ?

Agree 100% with you but the poppy is pushed so hard down everyone’s throat and is very “in your face” that it borders on ridiculous. Yes remember but put away the flegs.

The poppy and its symbolism comes from WWI (and has been broadened to incorporate other conflicts since). Much of its original meaning I think is best summed up in Canadian John McCrae's poem In Flanders Fields (https://poets.org/poem/flanders-fields).

I think its meaning has been twisted by many in our current time to either be a required attire to show national pride and "support the troops/current govt actions" or something to hate as they see it as a symbol of glorifying war and the atrocities committed by soldiers in places like Ireland (Black and Tans). Both are wrong. It remembers those who died (without judgment of the politics of the conflict they died in), many younger that this entitled brat in the video above. Its tied to one day, today, when we take a moment to remember those who fought and died, not the generals and governments who sent them nor even the veterans who march today (although as those closest to the dead, they march, and we civilians stand in quiet respect while they do). I think the USA have sadly twisted its meaning for other nations who wear the poppy by changing its meaning there from Armistice's Day to Veterans Day. This was probably done in the USA as they already had a separate day to honour their war dead called Memorial Day.

Where I'm from, people still wear the poppy and go to memorials today to remind those who died that we haven't forgotten them. I found it weird when I came to Ireland to see how much people detested it as a symbol of British rule. My ancestors, also not British, died in the same trenches as Irish soldiers and yet still are able to remember them without glorifying "King and Empire". In fact the battle that most comes to mind home was the 1st day of the Battle of the Somme where my then-country's entire army, the Royal Newfoundland Regiment (we weren't Canadians then) were wiped out. Reading about that day's causalities I have read that although it was a huge event in my home's history, our losses were dwarfed by those of the Irish who died along side ours. Yet, where are services? The remembrance? The poppy isn't about England or War or even the Royals (although, her family's rep aside, the Queen herself served alongside her people in WWII as a mechanic when she was probably younger than the woman in the video so maybe F the Queen is a bit much).

Mezzotint · 11-11-2019 8:48am

What I'm uncomfortable with is the British tend to glorify war. So do the French and so do the Americans. Wars are horrific. They kill, mame, disfigure, disable, displace and traumatise millions of people.

The Poppy is supposed to remember the dead but, instead, it's become a political symbol and seems to get enforced by people who tend towards extreme nationalism, jingoism and blind patriotism. I've no issue with people voluntarily wearing it as a symbol of remembrance. It's those who wear it as a symbol of patriotism and those who condemn those who don't want to wear it that have destroyed its intended meaning.

armaghlad · 11-11-2019 9:00am

markodaly wrote: »

There are three things certain in life.

Death
Taxes
The annual boards.ie poppy thread where a certain clique of Irish people bang on about the poppy, usually bringing references to Kenya or Iraq.

“Ugh, I hate these annual poppy threads”

*clicks into and posts on poppy thread*

mobileforest · 11-11-2019 9:07am

Mezzotint wrote: »

What I'm uncomfortable with is the British tend to glorify war. So do the French and so do the Americans. Wars are horrific. They kill, mame, disfigure, disable, displace and traumatise millions of people.

The Poppy is supposed to remember the dead but, instead, it's become a political symbol and seems to get enforced by people who tend towards extreme nationalism, jingoism and blind patriotism. I've no issue with people voluntarily wearing it as a symbol of remembrance. It's those who wear it as a symbol of patriotism and those who condemn those who don't want to wear it that have destroyed its intended meaning.

I agree that many tend to turn it to their own agenda. Whether its nationalist warmongers (who you know would never find themselves or their loved ones on the front line) or the ones with their white poppies who hide their ignorance behind blanket statements of peace and thinking themselves somehow superior to those who fought and died, as if many who died were somehow either responsible for or desired the war they died in.

LillySV · 11-11-2019 9:18am

Have visited the battlefields of world war1 and 2 in France and Belgium... and it is the battlefields of world war 1 that are the most eery... still destroyed in craters over a hundred years later and still too unsafe to walk on due to the sheer amount of bombs and mortars that were fired .... the soldiers there had a horrific life lying in water for months at a time...getting bit by rats who were eating the corpses around by them...and I’m sure for many... death was probably a relief from the horrific ordeal!

As the poppy was the only flower/plant that managed to grow or flourish in the area, it is used as a remembrance for the fallen .... and the fallen deserve that respect... most were poor Irish and English men that were so poor they had no choice but join the army ... and our little dumb millennials don’t realize or understand what it’s like to be so poor that they have to do something to afford to live (they now living nice and comfy in a welfare state)

I was at meningate afew months ago... if anyone here was at the ceremony for the fallen that’s held each eve they will agree that it’s a very sombre experience

In regard to her right to burn the poppy to go against people .... it’s her right etc ... The dead have a right to be respected... they can’t come back and argue their point ... they actually died to ensure that the people here today can actually have the freedom to fight their point

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2019 10:19am

armaghlad wrote: »

“Ugh, I hate these annual poppy threads”

*clicks into and posts on poppy thread*

:D

lawred2 · 11-11-2019 10:28am

LillySV wrote: »

Have visited the battlefields of world war1 and 2 in France and Belgium... and it is the battlefields of world war 1 that are the most eery... still destroyed in craters over a hundred years later and still too unsafe to walk on due to the sheer amount of bombs and mortars that were fired .... the soldiers there had a horrific life lying in water for months at a time...getting bit by rats who were eating the corpses around by them...and I’m sure for many... death was probably a relief from the horrific ordeal!

As the poppy was the only flower/plant that managed to grow or flourish in the area, it is used as a remembrance for the fallen .... and the fallen deserve that respect... most were poor Irish and English men that were so poor they had no choice but join the army ... and our little dumb millennials don’t realize or understand what it’s like to be so poor that they have to do something to afford to live (they now living nice and comfy in a welfare state)

I was at meningate afew months ago... if anyone here was at the ceremony for the fallen that’s held each eve they will agree that it’s a very sombre experience

In regard to her right to burn the poppy to go against people .... it’s her right etc ... The dead have a right to be respected... they can’t come back and argue their point ... they actually died to ensure that the people here today can actually have the freedom to fight their point

you can't have it both ways - either they had a cause (ascribing causes on soldiers in war is revisionist in my opinion) or they had no choice..

yes those slain in bloody war should be remembered but I would argue the romantic terms such as fallen should cease to find use... a nice fireside word to obscure the reality and futility of death caused by empire games..

Letwin_Larry · 11-11-2019 10:35am

Mezzotint wrote: »

What I'm uncomfortable with is the British tend to glorify war. So do the French and so do the Americans. Wars are horrific. They kill, mame, disfigure, disable, displace and traumatise millions of people.

The Poppy is supposed to remember the dead but, instead, it's become a political symbol and seems to get enforced by people who tend towards extreme nationalism, jingoism and blind patriotism. I've no issue with people voluntarily wearing it as a symbol of remembrance. It's those who wear it as a symbol of patriotism and those who condemn those who don't want to wear it that have destroyed its intended meaning.

What utter nonsense!
The Poppy is there to remember the War Dead. It in no way glorifies war. If anything it underlines the awfulness of war.
However there are times (Nazi mass murderers, IRA child murderers, ISIS headchoppers) when it is necessary to make a stand and take these criminals on.
The Poppy is a symbol of thanks & remembrance for those brave enough to make a stand, so that keyboard warriors like you can do what you do.

Plumbthedepths · 11-11-2019 10:36am

I don't think the fallen of WWI were fighting for anything other than Empire, freedom was not a factor.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2019 10:42am

lawred2 wrote: »

you can't have it both ways - either they had a cause (ascribing causes on soldiers in war is revisionist in my opinion) or they had no choice..

yes those slain in bloody war should be remembered but I would argue the romantic terms such as fallen should cease to find use... a nice fireside word to obscure the reality and futility of death caused by empire games..

I agree fully here. The effort that is made to hide the profound and terrible consequences of having to go to war is purposeful at these events.

War/conflict is a 'failure' and it should never be dressed as anything else.
Personally I would divest these commemorations of any military trappings symbolically, 'soldiers and generals in civilian clothes, signifying at least the desire to be rid of the need for armies and machines of war.

Juxtaposing, the poppy with a warplane, seems to me to be a real insult to all those who died as a result of warplanes.

boetstark · 11-11-2019 10:45am

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Or shooting protesters in Derry, Kenya, India etc. etc.

Whoa, cool the jets. I'm neither a fan nor a hater of the British army. My first cousin did 2 tours in NI and I respect his courage.
What happened in Derry was 100% wrong but tell me what you know about Kenya. I presume you are referring to Mau Mau. You best have your facts on this one.

lawred2 · 11-11-2019 10:47am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I agree fully here. The effort that is made to hide the profound and terrible consequences of having to go to war is purposeful at these events.

War/conflict is a 'failure' and it should never be dressed as anything else.
Personally I would divest these commemorations of any military trappings symbolically, 'soldiers and generals in civilian clothes, signifying at least the desire to be rid of the need for armies and machines of war.

Juxtaposing, the poppy with a warplane, seems to me to be a real insult to all those who died as a result of warplanes.

That bemused me too

Here everyone - here's some poppies rather than bombs.. Isn't this pretty!?

It's pure unbridled jingoism at this stage.

Shefwedfan · 11-11-2019 10:47am

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

What utter nonsense!
The Poppy is there to remember the War Dead. It in no way glorifies war. If anything it underlines the awfulness of war.
However there are times (Nazi mass murderers, IRA child murderers, ISIS headchoppers) when it is necessary to make a stand and take these criminals on.
The Poppy is a symbol of thanks & remembrance for those brave enough to make a stand, so that keyboard warriors like you can do what you do.

What about British Army mass murders??? British Army concentration camps etc? do we forget about those?

How many children got killed in Iraq just to get some oil?

The poppy is now used to glorify the Army, push for recruitment.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2019 10:53am

lawred2 wrote: »

That bemused me too

Here everyone - here's some poppies rather than bombs.. Isn't this pretty!?

It's pure unbridled jingoism at this stage.

It's obscene. Let's not sugarcoat it.

boetstark · 11-11-2019 10:55am

Cazale wrote: »

Without the sacrifice of thousands of young British soldiers we would be living in a 32 county Republic speaking our own language with a much larger population not decimated by the great hunger.

Would you go back beyond the Norman invasion in that comment or do you have a cut off point for real irishness in our history.

Letwin_Larry · 11-11-2019 11:02am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What about British Army mass murders??? British Army concentration camps etc? do we forget about those?

How many children got killed in Iraq just to get some oil?

The poppy is now used to glorify the Army, push for recruitment.

I disagree totally.
Army numbers are being constantly reduced so your point makes no sense imo. The British Army has acted admirably in every conflict it has been involved in. Of course there will always be a tiny, tiny number of rogue elements, but these occur in all walks of life sadly.

What's more I welcome the move by the Tories to change the law, protecting army veterans from vexatious legal actions. Long overdue imo.

lawred2 · 11-11-2019 11:04am

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

I disagree totally.
Army numbers are being constantly reduced so your point makes no sense imo. The British Army has acted admirably in every conflict it has been involved in. Of course there will always be a tiny, tiny number of rogue elements, but these occur in all walks of life sadly.

What's more I welcome the move by the Tories to change the law, protecting army veterans from vexatious legal actions. Long overdue imo.

obvious bait post is obvious

Plumbthedepths · 11-11-2019 11:13am

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

I disagree totally.
Army numbers are being constantly reduced so your point makes no sense imo. The British Army has acted admirably in every conflict it has been involved in. Of course there will always be a tiny, tiny number of rogue elements, but these occur in all walks of life sadly.

With the above you are clearly trying to wind people up. It's akin to trolling considering this is an Irish discussion forum.

Letwin_Larry · 11-11-2019 11:14am

lawred2 wrote: »

obvious bait post is obvious

no it's not. it is my opinion.

can anybody please tell me WTF was the Irish Ambassador carrying yesterday at The Cenotaph?
What kind of wreath was that? not a Red Poppy on it!
It looked totally ridiculous imo.

Letwin_Larry · 11-11-2019 11:16am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

With the above you are clearly trying to wind people up. It's akin to trolling considering this is an Irish discussion forum.

do you always find it upsetting when somebody expresses an opinion contrary to yours?

i find that incredible, but sadly unsurprising imo.

in a funny i would actually like to Thank you. i mean that sincerely without a hint of irony. i have been trying to figure out these Boards for ages, but you have just clarified it for me in one sweet sentence.

It's akin to trolling considering this is an Irish discussion forum.

Thank you!

Could you define the words Irish discussion forum for me please? Is there something unique about it that forbids differing opinions?

Dyr · 11-11-2019 11:17am

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

I disagree totally.
Army numbers are being constantly reduced so your point makes no sense imo. The British Army has acted admirably in every conflict it has been involved in. Of course there will always be a tiny, tiny number of rogue elements, but these occur in all walks of life sadly.

What's more I welcome the move by the Tories to change the law, protecting army veterans from vexatious legal actions. Long overdue imo.

Hey Blanch, I've found a penpal for you.

Plumbthedepths · 11-11-2019 11:19am

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

do you always find it upsetting when somebody expresses an opinion contrary to yours?

i find that incredible, but sadly unsurprising imo.

I have no problems with a difference of opinion, but clearly yours is a distortion of historical fact designed to bait and troll.

lawred2 · 11-11-2019 11:23am

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

no it's not. it is my opinion.

can anybody please tell me WTF was the Irish Ambassador carrying yesterday at The Cenotaph?
What kind of wreath was that? not a Red Poppy on it!
It looked totally ridiculous imo.

might help if you showed an image...

either way - why should a representative of the Irish state wear or carry anything with a symbol of a foreign armed forces?

irishguitarlad · 11-11-2019 11:26am

Don't know if it's been mentioned already on here but check out the page giantpoppywatch on twitter, very funny.

Letwin_Larry · 11-11-2019 11:26am

lawred2 wrote: »

might help if you showed an image...

either way - why should a representative of the Irish state wear or carry anything with a symbol of a foreign armed forces?

well every other nation could manage it? eg Germany, Japan, India to name but a few.

here is the pic!

lawred2 · 11-11-2019 11:28am

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

well every other nation could manage it? eg Germany, Japan, India to name but a few.

any image no?

Letwin_Larry · 11-11-2019 11:35am

lawred2 wrote: »

any image no?

before you jump all over me, the above pic is from 2014 but yesterday's wreath was exactly the same. i will try to get yesterday's pic.

i was in the pub having watched my beloved LFC, and a girl at the next table drew my attention to it. she thought it was shamrocks!

Plumbthedepths · 11-11-2019 11:38am

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

before you jump all over me, the above pic is from 2014 but yesterday's wreath was exactly the same. i will try to get yesterday's pic.

i was in the pub having watched my beloved LFC, and a girl at the next table drew my attention to it. she thought it was shamrocks!

Shocking the education system nowadays when someone can't tell the difference between Shamrock and Laurel leaves. Was she British?

Letwin_Larry · 11-11-2019 11:43am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Shocking the education system nowadays when someone can't tell the difference between Shamrock and Laurel leaves. Was she British?

in her defence we were some distance from the telly and what stood out was there wasn't a hint of RED on it. no Poppies. all green.

are we that childish a nation that we couldn't do the same as every other mature democracy?

it seems so.:o

(i hope i haven't upset anybody by raising this. advance apologies if i have)

Plumbthedepths · 11-11-2019 11:46am

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

in her defence we were some distance from the telly and what stood out was there wasn't a hint of RED on it. no Poppies. all green.

are we that childish a nation that we couldn't do the same as every other mature democracy?

it seems so.:o

(i hope i haven't upset anybody by raising this. advance apologies if i have)

Not upset at all, however you didn't answer my question was she British? Even from a distance there is a noticeable difference between Shamrock and Laurel. Maybe she was short sighted or only saw what she wanted to see.

Hannibal_Smith · 11-11-2019 11:47am

I think there's no winning with it. If the wreath had poppies in it there would have been questions from some quarters. They don't put poppies in it and there are questions anyway.

Can we not forget the presence or lack thereof of a flower in a wreath and remember those unfortunate soldiers who came to a horrific end?

Letwin_Larry · 11-11-2019 12:00pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Not upset at all, however you didn't answer my question was she British? Even from a distance there is a noticeable difference between Shamrock and Laurel. Maybe she was short sighted or only saw what she wanted to see.

i cant vouch for her vision. i dont even know the girl except she was a REDS fan.

It's akin to trolling considering this is an Irish discussion forum. i wish the MODS would be open and tell us this. you cannot openly discuss certain topics, ie hold certain points of view on these forums as it will upset the natives. it would save many a needless banning.

i think i will use that as my signature. it's brilliant in its' clarity and succinctness.;)

Dublin Spur · 11-11-2019 12:01pm

I always buy a poppy if I'm in the UK at this time of year.

My motivation is primarily in memory/respect of the thousands of Irish people who died in both wars.

FrancieBrady · 11-11-2019 12:05pm

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I always buy a poppy if I'm in the UK at this time of year.

My motivation is primarily in memory/respect of the thousands of Irish people who died in both wars.

Do you wear anything to remember those who died in our wars/conflicts?

Letwin_Larry · 11-11-2019 12:06pm

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

I think there's no winning with it. If the wreath had poppies in it there would have been questions from some quarters. They don't put poppies in it and there are questions anyway.

Can we not forget the presence or lack thereof of a flower in a wreath and remember those unfortunate soldiers who came to a horrific end?

personally i think it say a lot about us as a country, as a mature democracy.

even the Japanese managed a few poppies, and they had 2 atomic bombs dropped on them!

then again the Black n Tans did shoot Mary Murphy's heifer in Ballygobackwards in 1921.

lawred2 · 11-11-2019 12:15pm

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

personally i think it say a lot about us as a country, as a mature democracy.

even the Japanese managed a few poppies, and they had 2 atomic bombs dropped on them!

then again the Black n Tans did shoot Mary Murphy's heifer in Ballygobackwards in 1921.

obvious bait post is obvious

my interactions with yourself are done anyway - tedious stuff lacking in any subtlety or wit

Plumbthedepths · 11-11-2019 12:15pm

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

i cant vouch for her vision. i dont even know the girl except she was a REDS fan.

It's akin to trolling considering this is an Irish discussion forum.

i think i will use that as my signature. it's brilliant in it clarity and succinctness.;)

I'm sure you educated her as to what the makeup of the wreath was .It would be sad if you allowed a follow red fan wallow in ignorance. Knowledge is very important helps to provide context.

Burning the Poppy - A thread.

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