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Is this the end of Democrat front runner Joe Biden?

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    #242
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Don’t know offhand when it started but as Viktor Shokin was continuing that investigations into corruption surrounding Burisma Holdings who Hunter had a lucrative deal with despite having no expertise in the industry (Shokin claimed it was an appointment made by Zlochevsky "in order to protect himself"), and around June or July of 2015, US Ambassador Geoffrey R. Pyatt told him that the investigation has to be handled with white gloves. And Shokin was told Biden had held up US aid to Ukraine over the investigation.

    So never.
    Period under Investigation was before Biden Joined, not when he worked there.

    "But it said the period under investigation was 2010-2012, and noted that this was before the company hired Hunter Biden."

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower-ukraine-buris/ukraine-agency-says-allegations-against-burisma-cover-period-before-biden-joined-idUSKBN1WC1LV


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    #243
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Cody montana wrote: »
    What do you mean maybe no?
    If he was corrupt, he should have been fired.
    As I understand it pretty much the whole Ukrainian regime at the time was corrupt. You do know $7 Billion in aid went missing. Now tell me… Who else in the Ukraine regime other than the prosecutor who was looking into corruption of the company Hunter Biden was involved with was given a six hour deadline on firing or Ukraine could kiss the millions in aid goodbye?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #244
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,647 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    As I understand it pretty much the whole Ukrainian regime at the time was corrupt. You do know $7 Billion in aid went missing. Now tell me… Who else in the Ukraine regime other than the prosecutor who was looking into corruption of the company Hunter Biden was involved with was given a six hour deadline on firing or Ukraine could kiss the millions in aid goodbye?

    So $7B in aid went missing and you think it was wrong to not just hand over another $1B in loans from the IMF without them getting assurances that the Procurator was not corrupt?


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    #245
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    notobtuse wrote: »
    BTW, you didn't answer my question.

    AND YOU HAVE? :rolleyes:
    You literally did not answer my question.

    If the goal of the U.S. and the E.U. was to remove the corrupt prosecutor then they succeeded.


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    #246
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Cody montana wrote: »
    So never.
    Period under Investigation was before Biden Joined, not when he worked there.

    "But it said the period under investigation was 2010-2012, and noted that this was before the company hired Hunter Biden."

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower-ukraine-buris/ukraine-agency-says-allegations-against-burisma-cover-period-before-biden-joined-idUSKBN1WC1LV
    There's only one problem with that narrative... it's untrue.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/463307-solomon-these-once-secret-memos-cast-doubt-on-joe-bidens-ukraine-story

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #247
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    notobtuse wrote: »
    As I understand it pretty much the whole Ukrainian regime at the time was corrupt. You do know $7 Billion in aid went missing. Now tell me… Who else in the Ukraine regime other than the prosecutor who was looking into corruption of the company Hunter Biden was involved with was given a six hour deadline on firing or Ukraine could kiss the millions in aid goodbye?

    As you understand?
    Also, I think you've answered your own question.


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    #248
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Cody montana wrote: »
    AND YOU HAVE? :rolleyes:
    You literally did not answer my question.

    If the goal of the U.S. and the E.U. was to remove the corrupt prosecutor then they succeeded.
    I did answer the question. You just didn't like my answer.

    I'm still waiting for an answer... any answer... to my question.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #249
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Cody montana wrote: »
    As you understand?
    Also, I think you've answered your own question.
    Then you agree what Joe Biden did was corrupt?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #250
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,647 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    There's only one problem with that narrative... it's untrue.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/463307-solomon-these-once-secret-memos-cast-doubt-on-joe-bidens-ukraine-story

    By John Solomon - opinion contributor (one who has been discredited here before)


  • Options
    #251
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    notobtuse wrote: »
    There's only one problem with that narrative... it's untrue.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/463307-solomon-these-once-secret-memos-cast-doubt-on-joe-bidens-ukraine-story

    I can't view that.


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    #252
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 12,963 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Overheal wrote: »
    So $7B in aid went missing and you think it was wrong to not just hand over another $1B in loans from the IMF without them getting assurances that the Procurator was not corrupt?

    Even better, the 'six hour' thing is a comment by Biden to Poroshenko, after Biden, having made 12 or 13 trips to Kyiv to get Ukraine to move on firing Shokin. And they didn't. And they didn't. And they didn't. Then he said to Poroshenko "I'm leaving in six hours. Fire him, or no loan guarantee." (which I believe they got.) And they did fire him. Months later.

    So, nothing to see here, really. Biden did well to push Ukraine to remove a corrupt prosecutor using the methods he had available. It's not like this was some surprise to Poroshenko, who, if we recall, his citizens booted out.

    https://www.cfr.org/event/foreign-affairs-issue-launch-former-vice-president-joe-biden

    (and, unlike anything POTUS45's done, this is actually an example of Biden reining in Ukranian corruption. Cool!)


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    #253
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    Overheal wrote: »
    By John Solomon - opinion contributor (one who has been discredited here before)

    Please tell me he did not link a piece by John Solomon?
    Genuine LOL.


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    #254
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Then you agree what Joe Biden did was corrupt?

    Do you know what corruption means?
    Where was the corruption?

    He was literally stopping corruption.


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    #255
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Even better, the 'six hour' thing is a comment by Biden to Poroshenko, after Biden, having made 12 or 13 trips to Kyiv to get Ukraine to move on firing Shokin. And they didn't. And they didn't. And they didn't. Then he said to Poroshenko "I'm leaving in six hours. Fire him, or no loan guarantee." (which I believe they got.) And they did fire him. Months later.

    So, nothing to see here, really. Biden did well to push Ukraine to remove a corrupt prosecutor using the methods he had available. It's not like this was some surprise to Poroshenko, who, if we recall, his citizens booted out.

    https://www.cfr.org/event/foreign-affairs-issue-launch-former-vice-president-joe-biden

    (and, unlike anything POTUS45's done, this is actually an example of Biden reining in Ukranian corruption. Cool!)
    Ah, so quid pro quo is a good thing, as long as it's done by a democrat.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #256
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Cody montana wrote: »
    Please tell me he did not link a piece by John Solomon?
    Genuine LOL.
    Seems Ad Hominems-R-Us is back in business.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #257
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,647 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Ah, so quid pro quo is a good thing, as long as it's done by a democrat.

    How is it a QPQ? Biden didn't stand to gain anything inadvertent of value; leaving Shokin in place would have left the Burisma probe untouched, stagnant, dead.


  • Options
    #258
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,647 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Seems Ad Hominems-R-Us is back in business.

    Even the Hill has the good sense to label his 'contributions' as Opinion.


  • Options
    #259
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Cody montana wrote: »
    Do you know what corruption means?
    Where was the corruption?

    He was literally stopping corruption.
    Joe got the prosecutor fired who was investigating corruption in the company his son Hunter worked for by withholding US taxpayer money in aid. That is how Joe benefited by the firing and why it was potentially corrupt. If the investigation restarted up we would know one way or another if Joe broke the law. Hey, even if an investigation by Ukraine does not resume, and the GOP takes back the House and Joe is elected president, it is grounds for an impeachment inquiry on day one, right? It certainly is a more valid reason than what the democrats are using for their impeachment of Trump. And what is the democrats reason for impeachment this week? It keeps changing.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #260
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,647 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Joe got the prosecutor fired who was investigating corruption in the company his son Hunter worked for by withholding US taxpayer money in aid. That is how Joe benefited by the firing and why it was potentially corrupt. If the investigation restarted up we would know one way or another if Joe broke the law.

    Couple problems with this thesis: the first is that the investigation WAS 'restarted up' - after Shokin was replaced. The second was that Shokin was sitting on the investigation. The third is from the "restarted" investigation, we know that Biden didn't violate any Ukranian law, and subsequently neither did he violate US law, or international law.


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    #261
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,568 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    To answer the question.

    No. He will be the democratic nomination, not clear who he will face yet though.


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    #262
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,262 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Boggles wrote: »
    To answer the question.

    No. He will be the democratic nomination, not clear who he will face yet though.

    Looks very like it now.

    Biggest immediate risk is he losing in Iowa and may be New Hampshire.

    Iowa looks a certain loss NH looks like he'll get it but margin of error.

    Lose those and he could well fall apart.

    Long term threat is he is Joe Biden and he'll Joe it up or his past Bidening will come up to sink him.


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    #263
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    I’m hoping Biden is the democratic nominee. Trump will tear him apart in the general election. Biden has been on the wrong side of foreign policy since he became a senator some 100 years ago. He was number two (both figuratively and literally) in the most disastrous administration in modern history. And he seems to be neck deep in some unsavory moves to personally benefit his family while vice president.

    The GOP needs to go to war with Biden and the Democrats and stop trying to get along. Democrats have no interest in working with the GOP and simply want to kill us... again both figuratively and literally (just ask Steve Scalise and everyone violently attacked by the Left’s Antifa goons). The GOP needs to stop pretending and understand this is an actual war started by the Left. Since Democrats have taken control of the House they’ve accomplished virtually no legislation and have spent almost their entire time trying to change the election results and take out Trump by any means possible.

    The GOP needs to respond in kind to the Democrats impeachment process, which is nothing more than a partisan scam. When Barr and Horowitz release their findings the DOJ should immediately indict any and all bad actors. And go all the way to the top including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and even Joe Biden. Running for president doesn’t absolve him of his crimes. Let them defend themselves in a real court of law, not the kangaroo court Democrats are running. That’s what the Democrats would do to Republicans.

    If Democrats want a war... Give them a war! And pray they have an incompetent general in Joe Biden leading the charge.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #264
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,647 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I’m hoping Biden is the democratic nominee. Trump will tear him apart in the general election. Biden has been on the wrong side of foreign policy since he became a senator some 100 years ago. He was number two (both figuratively and literally) in the most disastrous administration in modern history. And he seems to be neck deep in some unsavory moves to personally benefit his family while vice president.

    The GOP needs to go to war with Biden and the Democrats and stop trying to get along. Democrats have no interest in working with the GOP and simply want to kill us... again both figuratively and literally (just ask Steve Scalise and everyone violently attacked by the Left’s Antifa goons). The GOP needs to stop pretending and understand this is an actual war started by the Left. Since Democrats have taken control of the House they’ve accomplished virtually no legislation and have spent almost their entire time trying to change the election results and take out Trump by any means possible.

    The GOP needs to respond in kind to the Democrats impeachment process, which is nothing more than a partisan scam. When Barr and Horowitz release their findings the DOJ should immediately indict any and all bad actors. And go all the way to the top including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and even Joe Biden. Running for president doesn’t absolve him of his crimes. Let them defend themselves in a real court of law, not the kangaroo court Democrats are running. That’s what the Democrats would do to Republicans.

    If Democrats want a war... Give them a war! And pray they have an incompetent general in Joe Biden leading the charge.

    Have you had your coffee yet today? Lot of wild extremist views you have this morning.


  • Options
    #265
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Overheal wrote: »
    Have you had your coffee yet today? Lot of wild extremist views you have this morning.

    or maybe they have had too much.


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    #266
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,647 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    or maybe they have had too much.

    I’d engage with it further but I don’t think any rational individuals reading that rant would reasonably interpret any part of it as constructive or truthful, or indeed as how any of this works or has worked.


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    #267
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,568 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    notobtuse wrote: »

    The GOP needs to go to war with Biden and the Democrats and stop trying to get along. Democrats have no interest in working with the GOP and simply want to kill us...

    Fúcking Loony Tunes!!!

    giphy.gif


  • Options
    #268
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    or maybe they have had too much.
    I’d say just enough to make me start thinking like a Democrat.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Options
    #269
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I’d say just enough to make me start thinking like a Democrat.

    you couldn't be more trumpian if you tried.


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    #270
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you couldn't be more trumpian if you tried.
    I'll take that as a complement.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #271
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I’m hoping Biden is the democratic nominee. Trump will tear him apart in the general election. Biden has been on the wrong side of foreign policy since he became a senator some 100 years ago. He was number two (both figuratively and literally) in the most disastrous administration in modern history. And he seems to be neck deep in some unsavory moves to personally benefit his family while vice president.

    The GOP needs to go to war with Biden and the Democrats and stop trying to get along. Democrats have no interest in working with the GOP and simply want to kill us... again both figuratively and literally (just ask Steve Scalise and everyone violently attacked by the Left’s Antifa goons). The GOP needs to stop pretending and understand this is an actual war started by the Left. Since Democrats have taken control of the House they’ve accomplished virtually no legislation and have spent almost their entire time trying to change the election results and take out Trump by any means possible.

    The GOP needs to respond in kind to the Democrats impeachment process, which is nothing more than a partisan scam. When Barr and Horowitz release their findings the DOJ should immediately indict any and all bad actors. And go all the way to the top including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and even Joe Biden. Running for president doesn’t absolve him of his crimes. Let them defend themselves in a real court of law, not the kangaroo court Democrats are running. That’s what the Democrats would do to Republicans.

    If Democrats want a war... Give them a war! And pray they have an incompetent general in Joe Biden leading the charge.

    How would you describe Trumps foreign policy?


This discussion has been closed.
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