Is this the end of Democrat front runner Joe Biden?

Overheal

Cody montana wrote: »

How would you describe Trumps foreign policy?

“Perfection itself”

notobtuse

Cody montana wrote: »

How would you describe Trumps foreign policy?

Erratic at times and effective at other times. Some wins, some losses, and some that too early to tell. Just being honest.

At least Trump is sending military assets, instead of sending blankets to the Ukraine in their fight against Russia as Joe Biden and his boss did.

Overheal

notobtuse wrote: »

Erratic at times and effective at other times. Some wins, some losses, and some that too early to tell. Just being honest.

At least Trump is sending military assets, instead of sending blankets to the Ukraine in their fight against Russia as Joe Biden and his boss did.

When Russia invaded Ukraine in early 2014, Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. pressed President Barack Obama to take decisive action, and fast, to make Moscow “pay in blood and money” for its aggression. The president, a Biden aide recalled, was having none of it.

Mr. Biden worked Mr. Obama during their weekly private lunches, imploring him to increase lethal aid, backing a push to ship FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank missiles to Kiev. The president flatly rejected the idea and dispatched him to the region as an emissary, cautioning him “about not overpromising to the Ukrainian government,” Mr. Biden would later write in a memoir.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/10/us/politics/joe-biden-ukraine.html

notobtuse

Joe Biden needs to be a witness in the impeachment inquiry and the first question to Biden should center on his explanation as to why his threats to withhold aid to Ukraine that he publicly boasted about were legitimate, while Trump’s were somehow an impeachable offense.

reg114

notobtuse wrote: »

I’m hoping Biden is the democratic nominee. Trump will tear him apart in the general election. Biden has been on the wrong side of foreign policy since he became a senator some 100 years ago. He was number two (both figuratively and literally) in the most disastrous administration in modern history. And he seems to be neck deep in some unsavory moves to personally benefit his family while vice president.

The GOP needs to go to war with Biden and the Democrats and stop trying to get along. Democrats have no interest in working with the GOP and simply want to kill us... again both figuratively and literally (just ask Steve Scalise and everyone violently attacked by the Left’s Antifa goons). The GOP needs to stop pretending and understand this is an actual war started by the Left. Since Democrats have taken control of the House they’ve accomplished virtually no legislation and have spent almost their entire time trying to change the election results and take out Trump by any means possible.

The GOP needs to respond in kind to the Democrats impeachment process, which is nothing more than a partisan scam. When Barr and Horowitz release their findings the DOJ should immediately indict any and all bad actors. And go all the way to the top including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and even Joe Biden. Running for president doesn’t absolve him of his crimes. Let them defend themselves in a real court of law, not the kangaroo court Democrats are running. That’s what the Democrats would do to Republicans.

If Democrats want a war... Give them a war! And pray they have an incompetent general in Joe Biden leading the charge.

Delusion is alive and well.

Several things here.... Its obvious to the world and its mother that Trump is arguably the most incompetent 'public servant' in the history of global politics. History is littered with narcissistic self serving dictators but they had an ideology and a consistency of purpose however vile it was. Trump's problem is that he's that thick he'll say anything to anyone for the sake of self aggrandisement and then deny he ever said it. Dictators down through the ages were evil and left millions dead in their wake, Trump is just as dangerous but for an entirely different reason, vanity. Its a miracle he hasnt sleepwalked America into another confrontation.

It has to be said Obama's 8 years in the Whitehouse facilitated Trump getting into office. I believe Obama marginalised large swathes of the electorate who simply couldnt relate to him. Obama should have make a greater effort to bridge the divisions which existed across the country.

As far as the current impeachment proceedings are concerned, I do think the Dems are within their remit to begin these proceedings. Its beyond comical that Trump who place pressure on the Ukrainian president to find dirt on Biden. Its unpresidential in the extreme, plus if the shoe was on the other foot, The GOP would do exactly the same thing to the DEMS.

Its a shame article 25 of the constitution wont be invoked. Its very clear that on any given day Trump illustrates multiple times that he is not fit for office, but such is the partisan nature of American politics the GOP would rather die on their feet than admit their man is sinking the entire country.

Biden is a career politician and as such probably possesses many a skeleton in his closet, but the question is, is he president material ? No, not in a fit, but compared to Trump , Biden is Abe Lincoln.

The DEM nomination will go down to a three horse race, Biden, warren and Sanders, of those three my favoured candidate would be Warren, primarily because Biden strikes me as morally ambiguous and prone to putting his foot in his mouth. Sanders is just too damn old and reminds me of grandpa simpson shouting and ranting all the time. Warren is best placed to turn America around but only if the DEMs vote in large enough numbers for her.

At saying all that I would welcome a pi$$ed 3 legged goat into the whitehouse if it meant the current occupant would sod off and disappear into the ether. This entire administration is like watching an appallingly bad reality tv show on Dave where the script writers are constantly coming up with ever more ridiculous and outlandish plot lines to ratchet up the shock factor every week. If only it was a tv show , i could turn the damn thing off.

ohnonotgmail

notobtuse wrote: »

Joe Biden needs to be a witness in the impeachment inquiry and the first question to Biden should center on his explanation as to why his threats to withhold aid to Ukraine that he publicly boasted about were legitimate, while Trump’s were somehow an impeachable offense.

is biden or his son being impeached?

Overheal

notobtuse wrote: »

Joe Biden needs to be a witness in the impeachment inquiry and the first question to Biden should center on his explanation as to why his threats to withhold aid to Ukraine that he publicly boasted about were legitimate, while Trump’s were somehow an impeachable offense.

Rabble rabble beep boop Joe man bad

notobtuse

reg114 wrote: »

Delusion is alive and well.

Several things here.... Its obvious to the world and its mother that Trump is arguably the most incompetent 'public servant' in the history of global politics. History is littered with narcissistic self serving dictators but they had an ideology and a consistency of purpose however vile it was. Trump's problem is that he's that thick he'll say anything to anyone for the sake of self aggrandisement and then deny he ever said it. Dictators down through the ages were evil and left millions dead in their wake, Trump is just as dangerous but for an entirely different reason, vanity. Its a miracle he hasnt sleepwalked America into another confrontation.

It has to be said Obama's 8 years in the Whitehouse facilitated Trump getting into office. I believe Obama marginalised large swathes of the electorate who simply couldnt relate to him. Obama should have make a greater effort to bridge the divisions which existed across the country.

As far as the current impeachment proceedings are concerned, I do think the Dems are within their remit to begin these proceedings. Its beyond comical that Trump who place pressure on the Ukrainian president to find dirt on Biden. Its unpresidential in the extreme, plus if the shoe was on the other foot, The GOP would do exactly the same thing to the DEMS.

Its a shame article 25 of the constitution wont be invoked. Its very clear that on any given day Trump illustrates multiple times that he is not fit for office, but such is the partisan nature of American politics the GOP would rather die on their feet than admit their man is sinking the entire country.

Biden is a career politician and as such probably possesses many a skeleton in his closet, but the question is, is he president material ? No, not in a fit, but compared to Trump , Biden is Abe Lincoln.

The DEM nomination will go down to a three horse race, Biden, warren and Sanders, of those three my favoured candidate would be Warren, primarily because Biden strikes me as morally ambiguous and prone to putting his foot in his mouth. Sanders is just too damn old and reminds me of grandpa simpson shouting and ranting all the time. Warren is best placed to turn America around but only if the DEMs vote in large enough numbers for her.

At saying all that I would welcome a pi$$ed 3 legged goat into the whitehouse if it meant the current occupant would sod off and disappear into the ether. This entire administration is like watching an appallingly bad reality tv show on Dave where the script writers are constantly coming up with ever more ridiculous and outlandish plot lines to ratchet up the shock factor every week. If only it was a tv show , i could turn the damn thing off.

Look at the favorable results of Trump’s actions regarding stocks, jobs, and growth. His unprecedented successes for the betterment of the country sure don’t say much for the traditional politicians you laud.

Cody montana

notobtuse wrote: »

Erratic at times and effective at other times. Some wins, some losses, and some that too early to tell. Just being honest.

At least Trump is sending military assets, instead of sending blankets to the Ukraine in their fight against Russia as Joe Biden and his boss did.

Name 5 times it’s been effective.

Yurt2

notobtuse wrote: »

I’m hoping Biden is the democratic nominee. Trump will tear him apart in the general election. Biden has been on the wrong side of foreign policy since he became a senator some 100 years ago. He was number two (both figuratively and literally) in the most disastrous administration in modern history. And he seems to be neck deep in some unsavory moves to personally benefit his family while vice president.

.

You can hardly call the Obama tenure "the most disastrous presidency in modern history". He wasn't exactly a stand-out president in historical terms, but he was no where near as destructive as the Nixon White House or the Bush 2 years.

Overheal

notobtuse wrote: »

Look at the favorable results of Trump’s actions regarding stocks, jobs, and growth. His unprecedented successes for the betterment of the country sure don’t say much for the traditional politicians you laud.

Jobs numbers are propped by the Gig Economy and the growth rate is falling under 2% with no forecast to shift back up.

ELM327

Cody montana wrote: »

How would you describe Trumps foreign policy?

presidential.

Loafing Oaf

Yurt! wrote: »

You can hardly call the Obama tenure "the most disastrous presidency in modern history".

I'm sure his verdict is based on a detailed comparative study of every modern US presidency.:P

notobtuse

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

is biden or his son being impeached?

Being intellectually dishonest is quite unbecoming.

If Democrats believe that Joe Biden and his son’s Ukraine shenanigans are irrelevant to the impeachment, then why not make them testify?

Any president has the right to ask questions from other countries about a US politician or citizen's involvement in corrupt acts abroad. Only the Biden’s testimony can help bring to light if Trump believed there was actually something fishy about their Ukraine dealings and wanted Ukraine to dig into it, or if President Trump threatened to withhold American military aid to force Kiev to investigate a political rival.

Americans want to hear about it, and not just from one political side! How can the House examine this matter honestly and fairly without digging into Trump’s motivation for requesting that Ukraine investigate the Bidens to help determine if it his actions were warranted?

Keeping the Bidens from testifying only proves the impeachment inquiry is a sham politically motivated process perpetrated by the Democrats. You know this!

ohnonotgmail

notobtuse wrote: »

Being intellectually dishonest is quite unbecoming.

If Democrats believe that Joe Biden and his son’s Ukraine shenanigans are irrelevant to the impeachment, then why not make them testify?

Any president has the right to ask questions from other countries about a US politician or citizen's involvement in corrupt acts abroad. Only the Biden’s testimony can help bring to light if Trump believed there was actually something fishy about their Ukraine dealings and wanted Ukraine to dig into it, or if President Trump threatened to withhold American military aid to force Kiev to investigate a political rival.

Americans want to hear about it, and not just from one political side! How can the House examine this matter honestly and fairly without digging into Trump’s motivation for requesting that Ukraine investigate the Bidens to help determine if it his actions were warranted?

Keeping the Bidens from testifying only proves the impeachment inquiry is a sham politically motivated process perpetrated by the Democrats. You know this!

they are irrelevant because it is trump being impeached. what he did is either impeachable or it isn't. Unless you think he should run with a defence of "well somebody else did something that wasn't quite the same and got away with so I should to even though when i did it was purely for personal gain"

martingriff

notobtuse wrote: »

Being intellectually dishonest is quite unbecoming.

If Democrats believe that Joe Biden and his son’s Ukraine shenanigans are irrelevant to the impeachment, then why not make them testify?

Any president has the right to ask questions from other countries about a US politician or citizen's involvement in corrupt acts abroad. Only the Biden’s testimony can help bring to light if Trump believed there was actually something fishy about their Ukraine dealings and wanted Ukraine to dig into it, or if President Trump threatened to withhold American military aid to force Kiev to investigate a political rival.

Americans want to hear about it, and not just from one political side! How can the House examine this matter honestly and fairly without digging into Trump’s motivation for requesting that Ukraine investigate the Bidens to help determine if it his actions were warranted?

Keeping the Bidens from testifying only proves the impeachment inquiry is a sham politically motivated process perpetrated by the Democrats. You know this!

Except it does not matter in terms of the impeachment if Biden or his son is guilty or not. The defence of the ends justify the means is not a real one.

Ihatewhahabies

notobtuse wrote: »

I’m hoping Biden is the democratic nominee. Trump will tear him apart in the general election. Biden has been on the wrong side of foreign policy since he became a senator some 100 years ago. He was number two (both figuratively and literally) in the most disastrous administration in modern history. And he seems to be neck deep in some unsavory moves to personally benefit his family while vice president.

I think with Bloomberg entering race that joe Biden is gone....

The GOP needs to go to war with Biden and the Democrats and stop trying to get along. Democrats have no interest in working with the GOP and simply want to kill us... again both figuratively and literally (just ask Steve Scalise and everyone violently attacked by the Left’s Antifa goons). The GOP needs to stop pretending and understand this is an actual war started by the Left. Since Democrats have taken control of the House they’ve accomplished virtually no legislation and have spent almost their entire time trying to change the election results and take out Trump by any means possible.

True but when democrats were in power the republicans did all they could to deligitimise Obama and Clinton. I think non co-operation is both party's policy. But I will state such opposition seems to be more vindictive.

The GOP needs to respond in kind to the Democrats impeachment process, which is nothing more than a partisan scam. When Barr and Horowitz release their findings the DOJ should immediately indict any and all bad actors. And go all the way to the top including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and even Joe Biden. Running for president doesn’t absolve him of his crimes. Let them defend themselves in a real court of law, not the kangaroo court Democrats are running. That’s what the Democrats would do to Republicans.

If Democrats want a war... Give them a war! And pray they have an incompetent general in Joe Biden leading the charge.

Let us pray it is Tulsi

notobtuse

Cody montana wrote: »

Name 5 times it’s been effective.

TPP withdrawal
Leaving the Paris Agreement
Revisiting NAFTA
Getting out of the terrible Iran Deal
Establishing dialog with North Korea
Announcing tariffs in the trade war the US has been losing
Tightening the Border
Withdrawal from UN Human Rights Council
Ravaging ISIS

Oh, sorry... more than you asked for.

Your turn... name 5 times Joe Biden was right on foreign policy.

notobtuse

martingriff wrote: »

Except it does not matter in terms of the impeachment if Biden or his son is guilty or not. The defence of the ends justify the means is not a real one.

That makes no sense.

ohnonotgmail

notobtuse wrote: »

That makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. Either trump is guilty of an impeachable offence or he is not. what other people have done in the past is irrelevant.

notobtuse

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It makes perfect sense. Either trump is guilty of an impeachable offence or he is not. what other people have done in the past is irrelevant.

Wrong. I explained it in post #285.

Overheal

notobtuse wrote: »

Being intellectually dishonest is quite unbecoming.

LOL

If Democrats believe that Joe Biden and his son’s Ukraine shenanigans are irrelevant to the impeachment, then why not make them testify?

you answered your own question. Since it’s also irrelevant why don’t they have Big Bird come testify before Congress again? Bring Stephen Colbert, Dennis Rodman, Kermit the Frog and Zendaya, because reasons

Any president has the right to ask questions from other countries about a US politician or citizen's involvement in corrupt acts abroad.

Nope. There are checks and balances to stop the POTUS from using the office to target American citizens and especially political rivals.

Only the Biden’s testimony can help bring to light if Trump believed there was actually something fishy about their Ukraine dealings and wanted Ukraine to dig into it, or if President Trump threatened to withhold American military aid to force Kiev to investigate a political rival.

Pretending for a moment that Biden is completely up in his neck guilty: testifying to that after the facts of the Shakedown would not change the reality of whether Trump believed there was actually something fishy. Facts: Trump withheld aid and conditioned it on an investigation into Joe Biden. Joe Biden is a political rival of the President. Case closed.

Americans want to hear about it, and not just from one political side! How can the House examine this matter honestly and fairly without digging into Trump’s motivation for requesting that Ukraine investigate the Bidens to help determine if it his actions were warranted?

You’re conflating motivation with something else.

If I believe that Michael Jackson is a kiddie molester - that’s my motivation for investigation. It doesn’t actually matter whether he molested anyone; it’s immaterial to whether I was motivated to investigate the person. If I’m motivated to dig dirt on my opponents and to pressure other countries to help me in that enterprise, the motivation doesn’t change if dirt gets found.

Keeping the Bidens from testifying only proves the impeachment inquiry is a sham politically motivated process perpetrated by the Democrats. You know this!

The Bidens can’t testify to why Trump decided to commit felonies.

Cody montana

notobtuse wrote: »

TPP withdrawal
Leaving the Paris Agreement
Revisiting NAFTA
Getting out of the terrible Iran Deal
Establishing dialog with North Korea
Announcing tariffs in the trade war the US has been losing
Tightening the Border
Withdrawal from UN Human Rights Council
Ravaging ISIS

Oh, sorry... more than you asked for.

Your turn... name 5 times Joe Biden was right on foreign policy.

I said effective.

notobtuse

Cody montana wrote: »

I said effective.

And I answered with effective.

Manic Moran

BloodBath wrote: »

I know Sanders is an old man at this stage but surely he's the best thing the Dems have to offer and has been for a long time.

An imbecile could fix the US problems. Cut military spending by at least 50%, put the money into health and education and anything else that needs more funds.

We put stupid amounts of funds into healthcare and education in this country (US), far more than we spend on the military.


The problem isn't the raw dollar value. The problem is the efficiency we are getting out of it.

Last year year, US governments put nearly $900bn into defense, that includes $13bn in foreign military aid and $40bn in economic aid. It also includes $200bn into veterans housing, health etc.

By comparison, $1.7trn of our tax dollars went on healthcare, $1.2trn on education, $1.4trn on pensions.

Want to split that up per head? At 76 million students (including college), that's some $16,000/student, or healthcare (Government spending only, remember, so we're not talking about the dollar amounts the private citizens spend in addition) is $5,200 per citizen. Compared to Ireland, in 2016 the government spent $14.6bn on 4.7mln citizens, giving EUR3,100 or so. Or about $3.400 per head.

People pointing at the US defense budget are completely missing the problem. Imbeciles may find it more difficult to fix than you think.
https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year_spending_2019USbt_21bs2n

Overheal

notobtuse wrote: »

TPP withdrawal

Never ratified anyway

Leaving the Paris Agreement

States doing it anyway

Revisiting NAFTA

No result yet no win

Getting out of the terrible Iran Deal

And now Iran is enriching again

Establishing dialog with North Korea

I can already see the edits that went into this one LOL

Announcing tariffs in the trade war the US has been losing

A war Trump pitched

Tightening the Border

How many miles of new barrier? MEXICO funding?

Withdrawal from UN Human Rights Council

A win???

Ravaging ISIS

Another edit: not “defeating ISIS” and not in 30 days

reg114

notobtuse wrote: »

Look at the favorable results of Trump’s actions regarding stocks, jobs, and growth. His unprecedented successes for the betterment of the country sure don’t say much for the traditional politicians you laud.

American jobs figures have been in an upward trajectory since the summer of 2011... but job growth has actually fallen under Trump : http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/job-growth-remains-steady-totals-have-slipped-under-trump

Manufacturing : in recession .. under Trump
: https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-10-09/despite-trump-vow-manufacturing-in-recession

As far as the markets are concerned, Trump as been a dream for big business primarily because he has de-regulated so many sectors they have been able to carry out their business with impunity, this applies primarily to the big Fossil fuel companies who have benefited from the unprecedented unraveling environmental protection legislation.

The bull market we are currently experiencing started in 2011 and is not due to the one single politician or policy.

Overheal

notobtuse wrote: »

Your turn... name 5 times Joe Biden was right on foreign policy.

In 2016, dozens of foreign policy experts and former officials signed public letters warning against electing Donald Trump president. This time around, foreign policy experts and former officials are rushing to endorse Joe Biden. One-hundred-thirty-three of them are coming out today in support of the former vice president as the best antidote to Trump’s foreign policy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/11/12/foreign-policy-officials-endorse-joe-biden/

:pac:

martingriff

notobtuse wrote: »

Wrong. I explained it in post #285.

Not if he was using aid as leverage to get this. Why have we not heard of him doing same for others. Also if it was right and proper why the cover up why the refusals to testimony

Danzy

notobtuse wrote: »

TPP withdrawal

Revisiting NAFTA
Establishing dialog with North Korea
Announcing tariffs in the trade war the US has been losing
Tightening the Border
Ravaging ISIS

Oh, sorry... more than you asked for.

Your turn... name 5 times Joe Biden was right on foreign policy.

Trump's position on all of these is near as one will get to a Sanders Presidency.

1,3 and 4 are the first significant roll backs to Reaganism style economics since the Gipper ran for Presidency.


Maybe a Democratic President couldn't have gotten away with it, wouldn't even have tried.

Strangely enough Trump could and is cheered on by those who firmly believe in self correcting markets etc.

Long as it happens, the why is not important.