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27-03-2021, 17:32   #211
893bet
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If I get one I will likely engrave the movement also. Though that does mean I can’t spend 15-20 minutes talking about the box it came in on YouTube before returning it for a refund but that is a cross I will carry.
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27-03-2021, 17:46   #212
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In the car world (BMW is the one I know about) they often take a tried andd tested engine block like the legendary 6 Cylinder and fettle it into the high end models like the M car engines. Now the m car engines are totally reworked, finer tollerances, better parts etc but at the end of the day it started life as a bog standard 6 cylinder block. Aston martin mow put AMG engines in their cars instead of making their own engines. 4 Wheel drive units are all from the same few suppliers, the gearboxes are nearly all from a supplier call ZF.

The in house thing is funny. I suppose its romantic to think of a craftman making every component of the watch but really it doesnt happen these days, Even the likes of Daniels and now Smith dont make main springs.

Take the AP Chrono calibre 2385, same calibre is used in the VC Offshore Chrono, its in house for AP but not for VC that makes no sense that you would care its a good movement.
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27-03-2021, 18:13   #213
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In the car world (BMW is the one I know about) they often take a tried andd tested engine block like the legendary 6 Cylinder and fettle it into the high end models like the M car engines. Now the m car engines are totally reworked, finer tollerances, better parts etc but at the end of the day it started life as a bog standard 6 cylinder block.
Yep. Honda did the same with their R engines, Ford took the mundane if bulletproof cast iron block used in Cortinas and the like, slapped a twin cam head on it and jammed in a turbo and the Cosworth one of the most successful racing engines ever was born. Lotus made a point of taking outside mundane engines and fettling them. It's a big thing in the car world and is actually seen as a good thing to take a tried and tested base, even a bought in lump from another brand and rock it out.
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27-03-2021, 18:23   #214
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Yeah, cars do it but guess what? Cars aren't watches and something in the car world doesn't necessarily transfer to the watch world.
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27-03-2021, 18:57   #215
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As TF noted earlier Citizen, Seiko and Sea-Gull are "inhouse" and have been forever. I could add the French LIP and Mortima to the list. Mortima, the now defunct purveyor of very cheap and cheerful watches were more inhouse than any Swiss. they made everything in the factory, dials, cases, hands etc, even their own straps, jewels and springbars. And haute couture watchmaking they were not. American brands were far more inhouse, when they were still around. Of the Swiss brands? Well the Swiss had always outsourced from the early days. Initially with handmade parts and then when industrialisation came along(nicked from the Americans) they continued that parts bin trend. Well it worked and worked very well.

When the wristwatch came along the Swiss brands would buy cases from company A, very often movements from company B, dials from company C and so on. Rolex were the king of this. In the early days they weren't a manufacturer at all, more like a parts assembly house/wholesaler. A rare few like Zenith, IWC(who were more known as movement makers until the 40's) and Longines were movement wise fully inhouse until the late 60's. Few enough of any of the rest were.

People originally bought watches depending on the retailer, often by the jewel count, then came the brand name(again an American import notion, Rolex being the pioneer of that in the rest of the anglosphere), the movements or where they originated would have barely been in the mix for 99% of customers.

Now I do get why it's a wish/concern for buyers today, but it's quite the more recent concern.
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27-03-2021, 19:17   #216
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As TF noted earlier Citizen, Seiko and Sea-Gull are "inhouse" and have been forever. I could add the French LIP and Mortima to the list. Mortima, the now defunct purveyor of very cheap and cheerful watches were more inhouse than any Swiss. they made everything in the factory, dials, cases, hands etc, even their own straps, jewels and springbars. And haute couture watchmaking they were not. American brands were far more inhouse, when they were still around. Of the Swiss brands? Well the Swiss had always outsourced from the early days. Initially with handmade parts and then when industrialisation came along(nicked from the Americans) they continued that parts bin trend. Well it worked and worked very well.

When the wristwatch came along the Swiss brands would buy cases from company A, very often movements from company B, dials from company C and so on. Rolex were the king of this. In the early days they weren't a manufacturer at all, more like a parts assembly house/wholesaler. A rare few like Zenith, IWC(who were more known as movement makers until the 40's) and Longines were movement wise fully inhouse until the late 60's. Few enough of any of the rest were.

People originally bought watches depending on the retailer, often by the jewel count, then came the brand name(again an American import notion, Rolex being the pioneer of that in the rest of the anglosphere), the movements or where they originated would have barely been in the mix for 99% of customers.

Now I do get why it's a wish/concern for buyers today, but it's quite the more recent concern.
We should add Vostok to the list of "inhouse manufacturers" too
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27-03-2021, 19:44   #217
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True dat.
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27-03-2021, 20:20   #218
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Or casio. My g-shock has an in house movement
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27-03-2021, 20:27   #219
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Originally Posted by 893bet View Post
If I get one I will likely engrave the movement also. Though that does mean I can’t spend 15-20 minutes talking about the box it came in on YouTube before returning it for a refund but that is a cross I will carry.
What like some kind of bargain basement Tim Mosso droning into the camera for circa 15-20 minutes? That would be a sad thing to do, worthy of pity.

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Or casio. My g-shock has an in house movement
But the in house thing is really overplayed and draws very arbitrary lines in the sand as to where original design and manufacture starts and ends. Zenith Daytona owners are not fussed, and in more complicated watches you often find heavily modified valjoux movements (speedmaster reduced) or ETA chrono modules etc.

The very real irony is that the Royal Oak Chrono which the Casioak apes is not in house, its based on the F. Piguet 1185 movement and is regarded as one of the best chrono movements of all time. AP have an in house chrono movement in the Offshores but they are too big to fit in the slimmer royal oak case.

I consider the obsession with in house movements to be a rather new thing and also one that does not withstand any level of historical or logical reduction. No a basic unmodified ETA 2824 Elabore is not good enough in a 5k plus watch but neither would an in house movement convince me that a cristopher ward watch or a Bremont less of a waste of time.

Last edited by Fitz II; 27-03-2021 at 20:49.
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