Currently buying/selling a house? How is it going? READ MOD NOTE POST #1

coughdrops · 21-05-2020 7:36am

Giggles90 wrote: »

Can someone clarify the next stage for me.

Our solicitor is due to receive the loan pack tomorrow, once we have that signed and sent back is that us finished with the lender? As in all conditions have been met, can they look for more documentation?

I'm just so anxious during this time hearing horror stories of the banks withdrawing there offer at drawdown. Both our jobs are secure but I'm still just so anxious at this process.
The vendors wish to close in 3 weeks or earlier.

My (limited) understanding is the bank can refuse at any stage up until the drawdown, but if your circumstances haven't changed, this is less likely.

If you are both still being paid the same amount from your employers, without them availing the Covid 19 subsidy (where you still get full wage amount, but work pay a % and subsidy pays balance) that will help, because that is what seems to be causing the problem with some lenders.

They might ask to see your most recent pay slip and bank statement.

Gavin "shels" · 21-05-2020 8:27am

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/families-reveal-how-mortgage-draw-downs-being-refused-if-in-receipt-of-covid-19-wage-subsidy-1000314.html

"Families reveal how mortgage draw downs being refused if in receipt of Covid 19 wage subsidy"

"Mr Burke said he has seen some positive signs of movement on the issue following a meeting of the five main banks with the Taoiseach and the Finance Minister last week, but added that the banks need to do more to help customers."

random_banter · 21-05-2020 10:48am

coughdrops wrote: »

My (limited) understanding is the bank can refuse at any stage up until the drawdown, but if your circumstances haven't changed, this is less likely.

If you are both still being paid the same amount from your employers, without them availing the Covid 19 subsidy (where you still get full wage amount, but work pay a % and subsidy pays balance) that will help, because that is what seems to be causing the problem with some lenders.

They might ask to see your most recent pay slip and bank statement.

I'm interested in this too. We were ready to apply this month but now waiting a few months to see what happens. I've not been put on the COVID subsidy scheme but everyone in my company took a temporary 10% pay cut (this is to the end of 2020). My salary and monthly savings are still more than enough to cover the mortgage that we are seeking, so repayment capacity etc are unaffected. But I have a feeling that if they see my wage has reduced slightly on my payslip, that they could raise questions. Has anyone else experienced this?

Kind of have in my head that I will need to have 6 months at this salary or wait till 6 months out from the salary going back to normal before the bank will give me a mortgage. The other half is unaffected.

Really sorry to hear about people who've had it approval at the final hurdle because of this. We're all just in terrible timing with this crisis, unfortunately

JL555 · 21-05-2020 12:13pm

Giggles90 wrote: »

Can someone clarify the next stage for me.

Our solicitor is due to receive the loan pack tomorrow, once we have that signed and sent back is that us finished with the lender? As in all conditions have been met, can they look for more documentation?

I'm just so anxious during this time hearing horror stories of the banks withdrawing there offer at drawdown. Both our jobs are secure but I'm still just so anxious at this process.
The vendors wish to close in 3 weeks or earlier.

If your circumstances have not changed since you got approval you should be ok. Depending on the bank, they might have different requests at this stage, your lender should have already contacted you if anything else was needed on their part due to covid19, in my case they just wanted another bank statement and recent salary slip.
My advice would be to call your mortgage advisor today, at least you'll know where you stand, guess work is no good.
I've been in regular contact with the guy in the bank over the last few weeks to take sure there is no confusion.
If all is good on the bank's side and everything else is fine with the property documentation, ie: title etc, and the only thing left is to drawdown, get it done immediately, I would give your solicitor a date you wish to close. It seems to take about 3 weeks, so if you request today, ask for a close out date of 12th June.

By the way, a lot of people are being put through the hoops with their banks even their situation has not changed, and there's a lot of people who have had to pull out unfortunately, so I'm not sure that the vendors have the upper hand in these times, they would be well served to be reminded of that.

snusie · 21-05-2020 12:13pm

We're close to the end of the process but our mortgage advisor has said our valuation has expired and we need another one. There's a backlog apparently. Can anyone advise as to how long it might take for a valuation to be carried out and processed by UB at the moment? Thanks

TomTanks · 21-05-2020 1:17pm

I contacted my bank directly to ask how my application would be affected by the covid19 wage subsidy.

Basically I will have to return to my normal wages to drawdown. I'm lucky that I can come off it, as my company have agreed to take me off.

I know where I stand now, I've stressed over this for a few weeks reading different posters stories. It's not worth it for your mental health, just ring and see what they say for good or bad.

CR0009836 · 21-05-2020 1:21pm

TomTanks wrote: »

I contacted my bank directly to ask how my application would be affected by the covid19 wage subsidy.

Basically I will have to return to my normal wages to drawdown. I'm lucky that I can come off it, as my company have agreed to take me off.

I know where I stand now, I've stressed over this for a few weeks reading different posters stories. It's not worth it for your mental health, just ring and see what they say for good or bad.

Fairly stressful time for all buyers at the moment! Do you mind me asking what bank that was? As i was in contact with AIB and they told us we will be okay for drawdown once my partner provides a letter from his employer saying hel be going back to normal wages after all this. I'm hoping hel be back to normal once we are drawing down(thinking the end of July).

TomTanks · 21-05-2020 1:28pm

CR0009836 wrote: »

Fairly stressful time for all buyers at the moment! Do you mind me asking what bank that was? As i was in contact with AIB and they told us we will be okay for drawdown once my partner provides a letter from his employer saying hel be going back to normal wages after all this. I'm hoping hel be back to normal once we are drawing down(thinking the end of July).

This is with PTSB, different banks seem to have a different policies so best to check directly with them.

connollyj · 21-05-2020 2:16pm

Went sale agreed 2 or so months ago at 310k in Dublin, guide price was 300k, just as things became serious with COVID, myself and partner decided to pull out of sale very quickly after highlighting the incoming economic uncertainty.

Made an offer again on same property recently, no other offers standing currently, at 275k, around 8% lower than guide. Noted the new guide is 295k, which implies they can't shift it. EA stated the drop is far from what he's seeing in the market, which is fair enough, but the offer is above potential projected forecasts for future drops of 12-20%, depending on how things evolve in the future. Asked me to send on offer in writing anyway and'll get back to me.

Funny enough, I've noted a 2-bed apartment being sold by the same estate agent was 200k then removed from daft and re-added at 189k. Were I not tracking the local properties in the area I wouldn't have noted this, this is not far off 8% of a drop from the original guide, leaving the EA's comments regarding not seeing these drops in the market suspect to say the least. To be fair apartment and housing markets may be affected differently, but of note.

We're lucky to be very financially stable, so we can hold off as long as seems sensible to us, keeping an eye on other properties in the area in the meantime. Some lined up for June 8th viewing wise.

Markitron · 21-05-2020 2:52pm

Can someone possibly explain to me the strategy behind EAs setting an asking price WAY over what a place is worth. I am still saving but I am keeping tabs on houses in areas I am interested in (not Dublin FWIW). I have seen a couple of places asking for 330-350k in areas where houses sold for about 280/290 only a few months ago. I understand 10 or 20k maybe but 50-60k?

Hypothetically, if I was further along in the process, do I view these houses and make an offer of what I believe it is worth or should a high asking price just be an instant red flag not to go any further?

Pivot Eoin · 21-05-2020 3:10pm

Markitron wrote: »

Can someone possibly explain to me the strategy behind EAs setting an asking price WAY over what a place is worth. I am still saving but I am keeping tabs on houses in areas I am interested in (not Dublin FWIW). I have seen a couple of places asking for 330-350k in areas where houses sold for about 280/290 only a few months ago. I understand 10 or 20k maybe but 50-60k?

Hypothetically, if I was further along in the process, do I view these houses and make an offer of what I believe it is worth or should a high asking price just be an instant red flag not to go any further?

In 80% of cases, sellers will go with the EA that gives the highest valuation to the house and is confident they'll get it.

In reality a large amount of the way overpriced properties come back down to normal prices for that market. That strategy is there from the EA as they know the Seller isnt going to switch EA upon realizing that nobody is interested in that initial overprices asking.

So the sale ends up happening, the EA gets the commission (Although takes longer) just by lying about its value to begin with to get the business. This is IMO why DNG are so prominent in the market. I've seen this with the majority of their decent properties.

Markitron · 21-05-2020 3:14pm

Pivot Eoin wrote: »

In 80% of cases, sellers will go with the EA that gives the highest valuation to the house and is confident they'll get it.

In reality a large amount of the way overpriced properties come back down to normal prices for that market. That strategy is there from the EA as they know the Seller isnt going to switch EA upon realizing that nobody is interested in that initial overprices asking.

So the sale ends up happening, the EA gets the commission (Although takes longer) just by lying about its value to begin with to get the business. This is IMO why DNG are so prominent in the market. I've seen this with the majority of their decent properties.

So is it worth viewing a house that you know is overpriced and offering market value? Would this be viewed as time wasting even if the EA knows the house won't go for anywhere near asking?

Pivot Eoin · 21-05-2020 3:16pm

Markitron wrote: »

So is it worth viewing a house that you know is overpriced and offering market value? Would this be viewed as time wasting even if the EA knows the house won't go for anywhere near asking?

It's worth viewing any house you want and think you might be able to afford. You may just have to wait 1-2 months longer when the EA has taken this kind of approach.

There is also a possibility that you go view it, and then you actually see substantial reasons as to why it is priced 10% above neighbors.

They may have a South Facing Rear Garden for example.

Markitron · 21-05-2020 3:21pm

Pivot Eoin wrote: »

It's worth viewing any house you want and think you might be able to afford. You may just have to wait 1-2 months longer when the EA has taken this kind of approach.

There is also a possibility that you go view it, and then you actually see substantial reasons as to why it is priced 10% above neighbors.

They may have a South Facing Rear Garden for example.

Ok right. If it was 10% I may begin to understand but I have seen 20%+ being asked for, it's weird.

Claw Hammer · 21-05-2020 3:22pm

Markitron wrote: »

Can someone possibly explain to me the strategy behind EAs setting an asking price WAY over what a place is worth. I am still saving but I am keeping tabs on houses in areas I am interested in (not Dublin FWIW). I have seen a couple of places asking for 330-350k in areas where houses sold for about 280/290 only a few months ago. I understand 10 or 20k maybe but 50-60k?

It tends to happen in some country areas where it takes a long time to get buyers. Where there are a lot of buyers there will be an attempt to getting a bidding war going by having a low asking price. Asking prices are simply part of the marketing toolkit. The buyer has to work out what the property is worth to them and then try and get it for a price in that region or lower.

mcbert · 21-05-2020 3:25pm

Was in with our solicitor today to sign stuff, asked her how the property crash was going, she said it may well happen but no sign of it yet...

Markitron · 21-05-2020 3:26pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It tends to happen in some country areas where it takes a long time to get buyers. Where there are a lot of buyers there will be an attempt to getting a bidding war going by having a low asking price. Asking prices are simply part of the marketing toolkit. The buyer has to work out what the property is worth to them and then try and get it for a price in that region or lower.

So if I viewed a place worth say 280, and the asking was 325, I should just offer the 280 and see what happens?

mcbert wrote: »

Was in with our solicitor today to sign stuff, asked her how the property crash was going, she said it may well happen but no sign of it yet...

Seems to me that the only thing people in the property thread agree on is that everyone is still waiting to see what happens while lockdown is still in effect.

Claw Hammer · 21-05-2020 3:27pm

Markitron wrote: »

So if I viewed a place worth say 280, and the asking was 325, I should just offer the 280 and see what happens?

Offer 270.

Pivot Eoin · 21-05-2020 3:27pm

Markitron wrote: »

Ok right. If it was 10% I may begin to understand but I have seen 20%+ being asked for, it's weird.

Depends on the house.

Here's 2 Identical shells and Sites in the same Estate. One is €175k more than the other.

Same House shells, same estate.

This one: https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/30-orpen-rise-blackrock-dublin/4428277

asking €175k more than this one:

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/7-orpen-hill-blackrock-co-dublin-a94n129/4371693

But you gotta factor in that the more expensive one may be south facing. The extension is a 60-70k job (22.5 sq. M extension), the attic conversion is a 30k job and generally the house is slightly better finished all round.

So if you factor in maybe 2 different pricing strategies. 1 to ask very high in order to get highest bid possible, and the other priced lowish for the area in order to start a bidding war.

I'd imagine the difference in the sales prices of the above 2 properties will probably be closer to €100k than €175k difference in asking.

Tasfasdf · 21-05-2020 3:53pm

What would peoples opinion be of a house with a asking price 30% higher than the semi-detacted to it paid back in 2018. Its a small estate so no other house sold in the last 10 years and thats the only comparison. Having said that this house has a conservatory that's probably worth 15-20k, leaving the house to be 25% about more than the one attached. Now the house definitely needs modernising so it is not turn key ready for any buyer.

Would asking 20% off be to much?

Padre_Pio · 21-05-2020 3:57pm

you can offer whatever you like.

Lowball the f*ck out of a property. The worst they can do is say no.

No EA will turn down a reasonable offer if there's nothing better on the horizon. They don't get paid otherwise.
The sellers may turn you down, but you never meet them, so who cares.

Markitron · 21-05-2020 4:01pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

you can offer whatever you like.

Lowball the f*ck out of a property. The worst they can do is say no.

No EA will turn down a reasonable offer if there's nothing better on the horizon. They don't get paid otherwise.
The sellers may turn you down, but you never meet them, so who cares.

I know it depends massively, but are most EAs likely to get back to you a few months after a lowball offer if/when the price is lowered?

Auctioneera · 21-05-2020 4:02pm

Markitron wrote: »

Can someone possibly explain to me the strategy behind EAs setting an asking price WAY over what a place is worth. I am still saving but I am keeping tabs on houses in areas I am interested in (not Dublin FWIW). I have seen a couple of places asking for 330-350k in areas where houses sold for about 280/290 only a few months ago. I understand 10 or 20k maybe but 50-60k?

Hypothetically, if I was further along in the process, do I view these houses and make an offer of what I believe it is worth or should a high asking price just be an instant red flag not to go any further?

You need to go back a few steps in the process of selling a property here. A vendor typically gets two or three agents out to "value" their property. Some agents will say to the vendor "oh we'd be looking at least for €340k for this property - this is an exceptional property etc etc etc"
Another agent goes out and shows the comparable properties and tells the vendor the truth "the property is worth circa €290k"
Very often, the vendor goes with the over-promising agent - "let's go with XYZ Estate Agents as they think they can get us €340k". This is clearly all nonsense as buyers ultimately value the property not estate agents.
After a few weeks / months of no offers of the asking go by, the agent will then convince the vendor to drop the price to where it should have been day one. Then offers start to come and the buyers value the property in the end.........but the over-promising agent gets the commission.
This is why when our agents meet a vendor, we bring the market research report with us. We show the vendor the market research that we did to arrive at our AMV (Advised Market Value). We think all agents should do this. Having a stroll around the house and then just proclaiming without any paperwork "Oh I reckon we're looking at €340k here for sure" isn't good enough.
Offer what you think the property is worth - the vendor can accept or reject. A counter bidder can outbid you. Market dynamics ultimately determine the price.

awec · 21-05-2020 4:06pm

Markitron wrote: »

I know it depends massively, but are most EAs likely to get back to you a few months after a lowball offer if/when the price is lowered?

If you offer reasonably under asking they'll come back to you if the price ever gets that low.

If your offer is seen as derisory then they'll think you're a time waster and likely probably not come near you until they're desperate.

Auctioneera · 21-05-2020 4:06pm

Markitron wrote: »

I know it depends massively, but are most EAs likely to get back to you a few months after a lowball offer if/when the price is lowered?

Seriously lowball offers are very unlikely to be entertained as no one is distressed at present and rental market still strong. If you don't make a reasonable offer, the vendor likely to just rent the property. You can only pick up property at firesale prices if buying from a distressed vendor. There aren't many of them around with the bank moratoriums at present.

Markitron · 21-05-2020 4:08pm

Auctioneera wrote: »

You need to go back a few steps in the process of selling a property here. A vendor typically gets two or three agents out to "value" their property. Some agents will say to the vendor "oh we'd be looking at least for €340k for this property - this is an exceptional property etc etc etc"
Another agent goes out and shows the comparable properties and tells the vendor the truth "the property is worth circa €290k"
Very often, the vendor goes with the over-promising agent - "let's go with XYZ Estate Agents as they think they can get us €340k". This is clearly all nonsense as buyers ultimately value the property not estate agents.
After a few weeks / months of no offers of the asking go by, the agent will then convince the vendor to drop the price to where it should have been day one. Then offers start to come and the buyers value the property in the end.........but the over-promising agent gets the commission.
This is why when our agents meet a vendor, we bring the market research report with us. We show the vendor the market research that we did to arrive at our AMV (Advised Market Value). We think all agents should do this. Having a stroll around the house and then just proclaiming without any paperwork "Oh I reckon we're looking at €340k here for sure" isn't good enough.
Offer what you think the property is worth - the vendor can accept or reject. A counter bidder can outbid you. Market dynamics ultimately determine the price.

OK this makes sense, thanks for the explanation. I suppose there is no harm on bidding what you think it is worth.

Auctioneera · 21-05-2020 4:09pm

Tasfasdf wrote: »

What would peoples opinion be of a house with a asking price 30% higher than the semi-detacted to it paid back in 2018. Its a small estate so no other house sold in the last 10 years and thats the only comparison. Having said that this house has a conservatory that's probably worth 15-20k, leaving the house to be 25% about more than the one attached. Now the house definitely needs modernising so it is not turn key ready for any buyer.

Would asking 20% off be to much?

Don't confine yourself to comparable properties exclusively in that estate. See what similar properties in the area are selling for. Use Daft, MyHome and the Proeprty Price Register. You'll quickly get a good handle on the property's likely value then.

Markitron · 21-05-2020 4:17pm

Auctioneera wrote: »

Don't confine yourself to comparable properties exclusively in that estate. See what similar properties in the area are selling for. Use Daft, MyHome and the Proeprty Price Register. You'll quickly get a good handle on the property's likely value then.

How reliable is PPR? Does it include everything and is it completely accurate?

Auctioneera · 21-05-2020 4:31pm

Markitron wrote: »

How reliable is PPR? Does it include everything and is it completely accurate?

The data is inputted manually by the solicitor of the buyer so with any manual data entry process, there is room for error. But it is a legal requirement so it is very accurate and complete. A few tips though:

Sometimes, they will spell "road" as "rd" or "avenue" as "ave" etc. So you need to be aware of spelling issues like this. So be sure to check the various spellings as if they list the property as "Longshore Rd" and you search for "Longshore Road", you'll miss a relevant property.

Crucially, new properties have VAT at 13.5% on them but the price on the register shows prices excluding VAT. We have built a simple version of the register here https://www.auctioneera.ie/property-price-register

We've tried to put in a few more details like number of rooms, square footage etc and we include the VAT so you see the price the buyer paid.

Hope that helps!

lfen · 21-05-2020 4:48pm

snusie wrote: »

We're close to the end of the process but our mortgage advisor has said our valuation has expired and we need another one. There's a backlog apparently. Can anyone advise as to how long it might take for a valuation to be carried out and processed by UB at the moment? Thanks

Ours took about 2 weeks. UB also.

Currently buying/selling a house? How is it going? READ MOD NOTE POST #1

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