Currently buying/selling a house? How is it going? READ MOD NOTE POST #1

Senature

I'm currently house hunting in the greater Dublin area, and finding that houses are either being snapped up pretty quickly, or left on the market for months and months. Supply seems quite low, and prices seem high compared to listings on the property price register over the past two years.

I've had an offer rejected as too low, yet that property has been on the market for 3 months and received no other offers. The sellers have made no attempt to negotiate, the indication from the EA is that only the asking price will do.
Although I really like the house, as someone who bought in the previous boom and got accordingly burned, I am extremely reluctant to offer an amount for a house that clearly nobody else is prepared to pay. All indications, even from those who usually talk the market up, is that at best prices will increase by very low amounts over the next few years.

Anyone else trying to buy or sell at the moment? How are you finding it?

Mod Note

Folks, general chat about the property market over here please: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...p?t=2058041687

This thread is for CURRENTLY Buying/Selling

Envelope436

I'm trying to buy in Dublin. Nightmare. Some places are in bits and need complete reno. Some are priced v high and I'm being told the vendor is prepared to leave on the market for the months to get the asking price. They won't budge. Very few new properties seem to be coming on and I'm all over daft and myhome.ie every day. Went sale agreed on a property back in Sept and no sign of the vendor moving so have to walk away.

Home owners seem to have really high expectations of property prices. And while some stay on for months, anything half decent getting snapped up over asking. At my wits end.

Envelope436

I was also burnt during the crash. Bought at the top of the market. Lost a fortune.

Dolbhad

Same here. Second hand market is poor and mostly houses with a lot of work. Have gone under asking on a few properties - not cheeky under but more what the property is worth IMO. One property I was told they expected 20k over asking. It was already 25k overpriced at asking. 6 months later they have had no further offers but sellers won’t budge.

I know a few auctioneers through work who have said it is a lot more of sellers going I want my house listed for x amount and seem to have a figure in their heads and it’s hard to reason with. The constant news of lack of houses seems to be fuelling this train of thought.

However new builds are going to get more expensive over new regs now so is unfair on both directions.

beauf

I've seen houses on the market for well over a year (mostly north of 600k) and others sold within 2~4 months. Might be the difference between desirable properties with realistic prices. Not sure exactly.

Woshy

Similar position here. Currently looking in South County Dublin and there's very little on the market, and anything that is has been on for a few months at too high a price and the owners are unwilling to take anything below asking.

E.g. there's a house nearby that we would be very happy to purchase, although it needs a bit of work. It went on sale in September at 575k. Owners not willing to take less than that. A house on the same street (a few doors down) that needed less work went on the market two months before that for 530k, a much more sensible price and went sale agreed very quickly. We are mortgage approved and ready to go and would happily give the owners 530-540k for the house but they are not budging and will not negotiate.

The same happened on another property located nearby in the last 2 weeks. The owners are insisting on getting asking price when it is really just too high to begin with, and also declining to negotiate. Again the house is about 30k overpriced compared to similar in the area.

The EAs are saying they are putting the offers to the vendors and they are refusing but I wonder how much of it is the EA telling them they can get asking price, a price they told them in the first place.

I should note we sold our house in November and got 25k under the asking and we were very happy with that. The EA just had the asking price too high and we went along with it to see what would happen but we were open to offers. It seems lots of vendors hear a price from the EA, plan they will get that much and refuse to budge, even if it is realistic.

JustMe,K

There is one agent I know of expects a minimum of 10% over asking for every property they list.

I guess no one really understands the position of the vendor and its possible that some of them need to obtain a certain number for the sale to be worthwhile for them, and the estate agents inflating the prices may be the main reason the property got listed. Of course, the vendors position is not the purchasers concern, but I know of 2 people that this is certainly the case for. Some houses are never really for sale either.

NearlyForty

We’re trying to buy in West Cork at the mo and all we’re coming across are houses that are either up for over a year and not selling due to various factors that aren’t generally appealing to prospective buyers and where they are right beside wind turbine farms and sellers are looking for too much and won’t budge on price (very strange scenario) or the better houses are snapped up really quickly through bidding wars going way over the asking price (and generally over our budget)... I’m at my wits end

ebayissues

Withdrew an offer on property. Good location but overpriced by 40k. Initially offered 20k over the asking..but on a third inspection, my gut said no.

Back to square one

Senature

Interesting to hear that sellers refusing to budge on seemingly inflated asking prices is happening around the country. Weird when there is a buyer ready to go and all the indicators are that they will be unlikely to get a significantly higher price even in the next few years.

I was house hunting around 2009-2010, but never ended up buying. Every brochure I was handed had numerous stickers over the asking price as it had been reduced several times, but just never quite enough at the right time to secure a sale. This is not quite the same, but I can see similarities in the mindset of some current sellers.

Sweet.Science

JustMe,K wrote: »

There is one agent I know of expects a minimum of 10% over asking for every property they list.

I guess no one really understands the position of the vendor and its possible that some of them need to obtain a certain number for the sale to be worthwhile for them, and the estate agents inflating the prices may be the main reason the property got listed. Of course, the vendors position is not the purchasers concern, but I know of 2 people that this is certainly the case for. Some houses are never really for sale either.

Why is this ?

JustMe,K

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Why is this ?

Any number of reasons - some people want a real market valuation for inheritance reasons, couple splitting up and one person wanting to sell with the other going along with it but having no intention of actually allowing a sale to go through easily are two off the top of my head.
A family member tried to buy a house a few years ago that turned out to be marketed for sale simply to get an increase in the price a developer was offering for the land the house was on (so it was never really for sale as a residential offering). I guess there are people testing the water as well.

Cuddlesworth

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Why is this ?

Some of the ones I have seen.

Owners do a deal with the bank, they put the house up as part of a repo deal but no intention of selling. You might find the estate agent knows this or copped it at some point. Bank doesn't follow up for years.

House is the product of divorce or a split between owners. Goes up but the person living there doesn't want to sell, so keeps denying the sale, rejecting bids or making things difficult overall.

Owners have just decided they will only accept price x because the estate agent said it during a valuation. House goes up, no interest, estate agent releases the price was off, owners refuse to accept reality.

House goes up for sale, owner wants to move. Heads out to the market themselves, sees what they can get for their money(usually downsizing), realizes there is nothing there for them, house eventually goes back off the market.

fago

As someone who has sold and almost bought in last 12 months, it's a question of how motivated the seller and vendor are to meet in the middle/above/below.

In selling our house we priced it fairly. Our first offer was 5% below but we took it as it freed the equity we needed for the next one.

When buying it depends. Experiences of 2nd hand market:
- House 1: very popular area, lots of interest goes for 10% above, way above the market value post 150K in renovations.
- House 2: Landlord has a price in mind, happy enough to sell at that but won't reduce as they can easily rent it out to 6 x tenants without the sunken cost of renovation. House stays on market and sells for asking after a while.
- House 3-N: fixer upper with lots to do comes on market, offer near asking accepted, month passes, purchaser discovers renovation will cost that much, back on market. Repeat
- Executor sale, unusual house/less popular location, needs full refit. Vendor has inflated view of value, ends up sale agreed at 15% below

Never underestimate how much value people can put on their family home, particularly one which is debt free. I suspect most of those who price high and refuse to negotiate are in no rush to sell because they have no financial reason to take a lower offer. Which is fair enough, they can afford to wait for the right offer.

I recently sold a very nice 4 bed which had been let for 15 years. It was priced at the amount paid for a house in the same estate recently, and sold pretty quickly.

Senature

Dav010 wrote: »

I suspect most of those who price high and refuse to negotiate are in no rush to sell because they have no financial reason to take a lower offer. Which is fair enough, they can afford to wait for the right offer.

I can understand a lot of that, but the point that seems to be being made by several posters, is that some sellers are waiting for the "right" offer, but never getting it.

The financial reason for taking an offer which they might perceive to be "lower" is that it's about as good as they're gonna get.

Congratulations on the successful sale

Kh1993

Looking in North Dublin at the moment and finding it very odd.

Two houses on the same roads in the same condition being listed 45k apart by different EA's.
House in a poor condition on a road that generally goes for no less than 315k being listed for 275 to stimulate a bidding war and then getting 320k.

Keeping a spreadsheet of prices etc but struggling to notice a discernible pattern.

Woshy

Kh1993 wrote: »

Looking in North Dublin at the moment and finding it very odd.

Two houses on the same roads in the same condition being listed 45k apart by different EA's.
House in a poor condition on a road that generally goes for no less than 315k being listed for 275 to stimulate a bidding war and then getting 320k.

Keeping a spreadsheet of prices etc but struggling to notice a discernible pattern.

Yep, I think it's all very odd at the moment too. Huge differences in prices between very similar properties but listed by different EAs, and sellers really underestimating how much work needs to be done to their houses. I know your home is your castle and people can be blinkered about it but some of the houses we have seen need a lot of work to make them suitable for modern family living, especially as there is houses in much better condition coming on the market too.

Thoie

I sold my place 3 years ago now, but in order to move I needed a certain minimum price. For example (using random round numbers), let's say there was 100k left on the mortgage, and I needed 50k deposit for my next place. So I couldn't afford to sell for any less than 150k. I didn't have to move, and wasn't under any particular time pressure to move, so if I didn't get my minimum I'd just have stayed put.

Thankfully in my case, my "minimum" was a bit below market rate so it worked out for me, but if your minimum was above market rate I could see why people would reject offers if there was no real pressure on them to move.

Woshy

One of the houses we are keeping an eye on, where the sellers are not looking at anything below asking has been re-listed today. As in they took down the ad and posted it again so it would look like it's only listed from today - it's the same price too. This is the second time the EA has done this, I save the email alerts so I know for a fact it was first listed in September and then re-posted at the end of November - and now again today.

*sigh* I really do not enjoy house hunting!

JamesMason

Woshy wrote: »

Yep, I think it's all very odd at the moment too. Huge differences in prices between very similar properties but listed by different EAs, and sellers really underestimating how much work needs to be done to their houses. I know your home is your castle and people can be blinkered about it but some of the houses we have seen need a lot of work to make them suitable for modern family living, especially as there is houses in much better condition coming on the market too.

Some vendors of houses in need of major renovation are expecting to achieve the same price as others nearby in turnkey condition. It is these vendors that reality will bite if the market takes a downturn. A sharp drop in prices might not happen but, some vendors may regret not accepting that low offer when they had the chance...

Woshy

JamesMason wrote: »

Some vendors of houses in need of major renovation are expecting to achieve the same price as others nearby in turnkey condition. It is these vendors that reality will bite if the market takes a downturn. A sharp drop in prices might not happen but, some vendors may regret not accepting that low offer when they had the chance...

That's exactly it I think - that a lot of vendors think sure my house is just lovely and the house across the road sold for x amount so I should get more - not realising that there are reasons that means their house is not as attractive, especially given all the new builds coming on the market.

Kamili

Woshy wrote: »

One of the houses we are keeping an eye on, where the sellers are not looking at anything below asking has been re-listed today. As in they took down the ad and posted it again so it would look like it's only listed from today - it's the same price too. This is the second time the EA has done this, I save the email alerts so I know for a fact it was first listed in September and then re-posted at the end of November - and now again today.

*sigh* I really do not enjoy house hunting!

I feel your pain!

I've seen this happen a lot. Old advert deleted, and a new one created. Often wondered how this impacts the reporting of house figures - numbers of sales and the prices the come up at. there is an estate agent in south Dublin area doing this a lot. Sometimes a search of the address on google brings up old adverts for it.

I can understand from a perspective of selling why its done, but I don't think it does anyone any favours. Particularly as anyone looking will already be familiar with the property.

Woshy

I can understand why they do it too but yes, I don't think it does any favours. It makes it look like they are hiding something and as you said, people who searching will already know it's been re-listed.

It's just so frustrating, we have our mortgage approval ready to go, a 20% deposit sitting in the bank and I'm waiting for properties to come on the market - an email alert comes in and I think ooh, promising and then it's the same houses over and over again!

Senature

A house I was keeping an eye on lowered the asking price recently. However, the refresh date on the ad on myhome.ie is still a few months ago, and the price change isn't registered as a price drop. Means the only people who know the price has been reduced are those who were already looking at it.

The EA is insisting that a house I put an offer on is worth the asking price based on other house sales in the same estate. However, those houses had conservatories, decking, landscaping, newly paved driveways etc that the house I am offering on does not have.

Kamili

100% agree with you, and in the exact same boat. Need to re-apply for approval now too and not confident I'll find anything.

Pretty much every house I have gone to see has had huge flaws with it, and the vendor thinks they are going to get top dollar for it.

One house was immaculate - and the pictures were amazing. Yet when we viewed it, the rooms had been greatly reduced in size to accommodate a larger living area, making some of the bedrooms unusable for anything bigger than a small toddler. You hadn't a hope of getting even a regular sized single bed into one of them. The fixtures and fittings were cheap and tacky looking despite how they were portrayed in the photographs. the inside was remodled totally and it actually was detrimental to the overall layout. The house was asking 30k over what other houses in the same estate sold for and the vendors were refusing good offers below asking. House has been on the market since July and got a very good offer 15k below asking, and 5k over what the most expensive house in the same estate went for. This other house was a 4 bed detached and in turnkey condition, where as this one is a 3 bed and much smaller and badly laid out.

Add 15k to their asking price and you can buy a brand new fully fitted house in a brand new estate 2 minutes away from this one, with better layout and better facilites.
The mind boggles.

Woshy

I'm looking at houses that when compared to other houses nearby have things like:

a substantially lower BER
only one bathroom (i.e. no downstairs toilet)
a separate dining room and quite a small kitchen (when other houses have already been converted)
a north facing garden

and they're looking for 30k- 40k more than other houses. It just doesn't make sense. When we were selling our house I was aware what houses near me were selling for or going on the market for and would have been aware of a price difference like that. Again, I think some of it is people who think well my house is lovely so people will want to pay more for it when really, it's not set up for what a lot of buyers are looking for.

I have no issue with doing up a house over time but if work needs to be done it should be reflected in the price.

Kamili

Senature wrote: »

The EA is insisting that a house I put an offer on is worth the asking price based on other house sales in the same estate. However, those houses had conservatories, decking, landscaping, newly paved driveways etc that the house I am offering on does not have.

I had similar with the EA, who then demanded to know exactly how much I had been approved for and wouldn't accept a redacted version of my approval letter. Insisted on knowing the exact amount and wouldn't accept my bid until I provided this exact figure. There were no other bidders on the property at all. I contacted my solicitor over it and they were less than impressed. they provided a strongly worded letter to the EA, proving I had funds, which the EA reluctantly accepted. I genuinely felt the EA was trying to use that letter against me to push up the price.

I walked away. House needed a lot of work and would have been ok if I had got it at around my offer price.

It did sell a few months later after the asking price was greatly reduced, but from the online bidding site used, it looks like the bidder was bidding against themselves on it.

caff

I gave up on anything that looked like it was ready to move into. Bought a place with peeling wallpaper and non functioning gas boiler. Spent about 30k on renovations but didn't have to deal with a bidding war or any messing about.

at the rate dublin city council will buy houses and above the market price too, dont be surprised if you're outbid by them and they snap it up and give it to sum sham for feck all rent!!! or to house some poor unfortunate family not of these shores!!

If you can live with it and you're just not willing to pay the asking on principle, id swallow the pride if it was somewhere I liked and pony up, what can you do.

That's what happened to us anyway.

The alternative is you end up in a cue for a new development and both you and a ton of others move into a new estate, 10% of which are freeloaders and the rest are new families..cut to 10 years and it's kip and you're tied to it!

diggerdigger

This may be stating obvious, but the price is what a buyer will pay and a seller will sell. You need both. And a seller and a buyer can both be irrational in setting their bid or ask.

I sold a house last year, and got a good bit above asking. But you wouldn't believe the number of low-ballers after a month on the market telling my EA what the value of the house was and what their rationale was for the offer below asking. "I could renovate the house up the street for 50k, so this is worth X not Y". And a tip - unless you have actually renovated a house before, you are underestimating the cost.

Unless the seller is motivated (i.e. must move - found a dream house, executor sale, new job down the country, divorce), then many just wont sell unless they get the price they want or need. the optional sales like downsizers or potential trader uppers, may not really be compelled/motivated to do anything.

Senature

The examples househunters are giving here are mostly the opposite though. Sellers who are looking for as much or more for their house than another similar house, which was bigger / in better condition / already renovated etc and refusing to lower their expectations despite receiving no offers at the value they believe it to be worth.

JamesMason

Woshy wrote: »

I'm looking at houses that when compared to other houses nearby have things like:

a substantially lower BER
only one bathroom (i.e. no downstairs toilet)
a separate dining room and quite a small kitchen (when other houses have already been converted)
a north facing garden

and they're looking for 30k- 40k more than other houses. It just doesn't make sense. When we were selling our house I was aware what houses near me were selling for or going on the market for and would have been aware of a price difference like that. Again, I think some of it is people who think well my house is lovely so people will want to pay more for it when really, it's not set up for what a lot of buyers are looking for.

I have no issue with doing up a house over time but if work needs to be done it should be reflected in the price.

Greed. It's that simple.

beauf

JamesMason wrote: »

Greed. It's that simple.

They might be stubborn, even stupid. But I don't see how its greed.

There's a couple in my area on sale for about 2yrs. Others at the same price have been gone in a month or two.

Anamdearcadh

caff wrote: »

I gave up on anything that looked like it was ready to move into. Bought a place with peeling wallpaper and non functioning gas boiler. Spent about 30k on renovations but didn't have to deal with a bidding war or any messing about.

Same here. Hoping to get the keys next week. I've joined boards hoping to glean as much advice as possible from the forums as renovations are very much needed but excited to have my own place!

JamesMason

JamesMason wrote: »

Greed. It's that simple.

Selling your house is the biggest transaction most will have during their lifetime. Getting as much as the market will bare is not greed, it is good business. If it is too high, the house will sit there unsold, but if it does sell in 6 months, 12 months, 2 years later, the seller may think it was worth the wait.

Shefwedfan

Someone buying a house and the person selling is greedy

Same person selling and everyone is too tight

Are people saying if they where selling their house now they would accept bids under market value just out of the goodness of their heart?

Senature

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Are people saying if they where selling their house now they would accept bids under market value just out of the goodness of their heart?

I don't understand why this point is now being continually repeated in this thread. I don't think any posters have suggested that sellers should sell for less than market value for any reason.

givyjoe

Senature wrote: »

I don't understand why this point is now being continually repeated in this thread. I don't think any posters have suggested that sellers should sell for less than market value for any reason.

Precisely. The point being made is that they are holding out for a value which the property isn't worth, hence no one over an extended period has met their estimate.

Shefwedfan

givyjoe wrote: »

Precisely. The point being made is that they are holding out for a value which the property isn't worth, hence no one over an extended period has met their estimate.

A house is only worth what someone will pay for it

If the market was flooded with houses which where overpriced and nobody was going to buy them the automatically the prices would come down

The market isn’t so that would suggest someone is willing to pay for it, calling the seller greedy is pointless because if shoe was on other foot then you would hold out for best price

ebayissues

There is greed involved.


If a house is reasonbly priced, a seller would be able to sell/liquidate the house reltively quick..a week to a month.


How does one gauage the value of a house.. we see what other prices houses sold in that area...compare the size.... estimates of work that has to be done.


Though there is premium one houses where location is good, if the house is in turnkey conditon. However I have seen houses that needs to be gtted be priced at an astronomical rate.


A house priced well will shift quickly....


Houses on the market for over 3months or so are either not being priced correctly or owners really don't want to sell.

Senature

Shefwedfan wrote: »

A house is only worth what someone will pay for it

If the market was flooded with houses which where overpriced and nobody was going to buy them the automatically the prices would come down

The market isn’t so that would suggest someone is willing to pay for it, calling the seller greedy is pointless because if shoe was on other foot then you would hold out for best price

Mostly we were discussing sellers whose houses are on the market for months on end and are obviously not being offered the price they want as the houses are not selling. For example, there is one in the area I am looking in that is on the market since August. This suggests nobody is willing to pay that price for that house, whether the seller "holds out" or not. That is the point.

Have you read the thread? I think only one poster called it greed. Others offered other reasons such as the houses not really being for sale etc. You seem to be making a point that posters believe sellers are greedy if they won't accept low offers, I don't think anyone has said that. In fact, your first point, that a house is only worth what someone will pay for it is he one being made by pretty much everyone posting...

ebayissues

ebayissues wrote: »

There is greed involved.


If a house is reasonbly priced, a seller would be able to sell/liquidate the house reltively quick..a week to a month.


How does one gauage the value of a house.. we see what other prices houses sold in that area...compare the size.... estimates of work that has to be done.


Though there is premium one houses where location is good, if the house is in turnkey conditon. However I have seen houses that needs to be gtted be priced at an astronomical rate.


A house priced well will shift quickly....


Houses on the market for over 3months or so are either not being priced correctly or owners really don't want to sell.

To an extent, you are correct. Sellers are selfish, we all want the most we can get when selling property. But selling needn’t be a quick process, and many don’t need to shift quickly at a price which suits a buyer. Property transactions are hypothetical, an observer such as yourself may be critical of sellers asking too much, yet when your time comes to sell, altruism is less of a concern.

givyjoe

Shefwedfan wrote: »

A house is only worth what someone will pay for it

If the market was flooded with houses which where overpriced and nobody was going to buy them the automatically the prices would come down

The market isn’t so that would suggest someone is willing to pay for it, calling the seller greedy is pointless because if shoe was on other foot then you would hold out for best price

Did you read any of my post? If the house isn't selling and being continually relisted, then the house in question clearly isn't priced at the market value. Not rocket science.

One poster mentioned greed. Most others have just given examples of unreasonably priced non selling houses.

givyjoe

givyjoe wrote: »

Did you read any of my post? If the house isn't selling and being continually relisted, then the house in question clearly isn't priced at the market value. Not rocket science.

One poster mentioned greed. Most others have just given examples unreasonably priced non selling houses.

Whether you like it or not, the owners of those properties are willing to wait until the right offer comes. It may never come, but that is their choice, unless it is outlandishly priced, odds are they have a reasonably good chance of eventually selling.

givyjoe

Dav010 wrote: »

Whether you like it or not, the owners of those properties are willing to wait until the right offer comes. It may never come, but that is their choice, unless it is outlandishly priced, odds are they have a reasonably good chance of eventually selling.

Whether you like it or not, if the no one is willing to meet the sellers asking price, then it isn't worth the asking price. Jesus wept, it's not complicated.

givyjoe

givyjoe wrote: »

Whether you like it or not, if the no one is willing to meet the sellers asking price, then it isn't worth the asking price. Jesus wept, it's not complicated.

That’s the way it goes with property sales. Some sellers have no time limit and are willing to wait.

givyjoe

Dav010 wrote: »

That’s the way it goes with property sales. Some sellers have no time limit and are willing to wait.

By willing to wait, do you mean until prices rise and eventually their house is actually worth what they are willing to accept? Again, if no one is meeting the price, then it isn't worth the price they want AT THAT TIME.

givyjoe

givyjoe wrote: »

By willing to wait, do you mean until prices rise and eventually their house is actually worth what they are willing to accept? Again, if no one is meeting the price, then it isn't worth the price they want AT THAT TIME.

Pretty much, the last three words are the most pertinent, for some sellers who aren’t under pressure to sell, there is no “at that time”, they can wait indefinitely.

beauf

ebayissues wrote: »

There is greed involved.


If a house is reasonbly priced, a seller would be able to sell/liquidate the house reltively quick..a week to a month.


How does one gauage the value of a house.. we see what other prices houses sold in that area...compare the size.... estimates of work that has to be done.


Though there is premium one houses where location is good, if the house is in turnkey conditon. However I have seen houses that needs to be gtted be priced at an astronomical rate.


A house priced well will shift quickly....


Houses on the market for over 3months or so are either not being priced correctly or owners really don't want to sell.

If they get the price or close to it eventually its just good business.

If you sell it fast it's too low. The average is something like 7 months.

givyjoe

Dav010 wrote: »

Pretty much, the last three words are the most pertinent, for some sellers who aren’t under pressure to sell, there is no “at that time”, they can wait indefinitely.

And prey tell.. what are they waiting for...?! The price that their property isn't worth NOW! NOW being the most pertinent word.