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The main thing is keeping the main thing, the main thing

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    #92
    thewolf_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭thewolf_ie


    Good to see you man. You finished just ahead of me ;)


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    #93
    career_move
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭career_move


    Super running today RK and thanks for all the encouragement. You'd have made a great Captain Jean-luc Picard :D



    And you'll always be RK to me ;)


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    #94
    Tom Joad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Tom Joad


    Well done AMK/ RK :D Great report and congrats on another PB. Can see 2014 being full off PB's for you.


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    #95
    Runchick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭Runchick


    Fantastic running RK, well done :D


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    #96
    AuldManKing
    Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Sunday 8th Dec.

    Woke up fairly early and fairly fresh, considering I added a pile to St. James Gate cash reserves last night at the Boards bash - such a good night with a lot of great people - we should seriously do it more often.

    Out for GAA stuff with the 1st born early on - U14 trials are on so soon after the U13 season ended.

    Went out for a recovery run in PP later on with the dog - 4.34 miles, keeping the HR below 130.


    Quick Q - my progression from the 5x1k last week could be either 3x2k or 4x1m - (the next progression is 4x2k next week followed by 3x3k) - any reason why I should do one over the other or is it much of a muchness.

    I'm thinking 4x1m with 2 min rec. (for 10m plan).
    So much for keeping it simple :p

    Rub down booked in for Friday :cool:

    Ended the week on an unspectacular 30 miles - will take it as a step back week.


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    #97
    AuldManKing
    Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Monday 9th December 11.58 miles @ 7:19 pace (HR 149)

    Todays session was a tempo on tired'ish legs. - 1.5mile wu / 20 min T / 15 min Jog / 15 min Tempo / Cool Down (2.3miles)

    Jogged down to the PP and started the Tempo at the top of Whites road to maximize the downhill :) - kept going on the trails by the North Road down to Garda HQ - ave pace was 6:31 for the tempo. Bang on target - I kept it going beyond the 20 mins to about 22 mins to average out at 3.5m (1st 0.5m was 7:03 to ease into it then 6:38/6:37/6:07)

    15 min Jog Recovery (7:40 pace but it felt like I was walking after the tempo speed)

    Next 15 min Tempo was planned to take me up Military Hill, The S Bends, Upper Glen Road and then the Fury Glen - so a lot of hills and a bit of a head wind too.

    Nailed that in 6:34 - fairly even splits - 6.33 / 6:35 / 6:34 for the last bit.

    2.3m jog home (8:02 pace - a tad quick - but managed to get the HR down to 133 by the end)

    Happy out with this one. Felt I nailed it - delighted to get the 2nd tempo over the hills.

    Tuesday & Wed will be easy days - then 4x1m on Thursday.

    btw RunningKing would NOT have completed that session :pac:


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    #98
    TRR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    Yeah but RK was young hip and better looking that AMK. AMK sucks.


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    #99
    Cleanman
    Registered Users Posts: 631 ✭✭✭Cleanman


    That's some session......Guinness really is good for you:P


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    #100
    AuldManKing
    Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Tuesday 12th

    Interesting run tonight - I wanted to run 'easy' but not 'recovery' pace - so decided to do it by HR.

    I've been finding that running by HR is really helping me slow down my recovery runs, once I keep it below 130 (recovery pace is 124-137).

    So I set off, following yesterdays tempo, and had a figure of 145 in mind for heart rate as its in the middle of my 'aerobic' zone and have read that 75-78% HR is typical of an 'easy run' - (cant recall where I read that - but could be tergat).

    I found myself in a battle between what my HR was and what my body was telling me.

    My HR was staying below 140 for the 1st 3 miles and I found myself questioning if I should run faster or not as my pace at times was touching 7:20's (which is not my easy pace!!). So my pace was yo yo'ing a bit trying to hit the pace.

    Only when I turned into the wind did the HR pick up to 140's. Slowed right down in the last mile to bring it back down below 130.

    Overall 6.44m @ 7:51 pace (Ave HR 138 - 76%)

    Had I of ran by feel, it would have been a lot slower and closer to a recovery pace/HR run.

    This HR stuff is very interesting..............


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    #101
    drquirky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭drquirky


    AuldManKing wrote: »
    Tuesday 12th

    Interesting run tonight - I wanted to run 'easy' but not 'recovery' pace - so decided to do it by HR.

    I've been finding that running by HR is really helping me slow down my recovery runs, once I keep it below 130 (recovery pace is 124-137).

    So I set off, following yesterdays tempo, and had a figure of 145 in mind for heart rate as its in the middle of my 'aerobic' zone and have read that 75-78% HR is typical of an 'easy run' - (cant recall where I read that - but could be tergat).

    I found myself in a battle between what my HR was and what my body was telling me.

    My HR was staying below 140 for the 1st 3 miles and I found myself questioning if I should run faster or not as my pace at times was touching 7:20's (which is not my easy pace!!). So my pace was yo yo'ing a bit trying to hit the pace.

    Only when I turned into the wind did the HR pick up to 140's. Slowed right down in the last mile to bring it back down below 130.

    Overall 6.44m @ 7:51 pace (Ave HR 138 - 76%)

    Had I of ran by feel, it would have been a lot slower and closer to a recovery pace/HR run.

    This HR stuff is very interesting..............

    Ignore the heartrate crap and keep your easy runs sensible and your recovery runs slow ...,


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    #102
    blockic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭blockic


    AuldManKing wrote: »
    Tuesday 12th

    Interesting run tonight - I wanted to run 'easy' but not 'recovery' pace - so decided to do it by HR.

    I've been finding that running by HR is really helping me slow down my recovery runs, once I keep it below 130 (recovery pace is 124-137).

    So I set off, following yesterdays tempo, and had a figure of 145 in mind for heart rate as its in the middle of my 'aerobic' zone and have read that 75-78% HR is typical of an 'easy run' - (cant recall where I read that - but could be tergat).

    I found myself in a battle between what my HR was and what my body was telling me.

    My HR was staying below 140 for the 1st 3 miles and I found myself questioning if I should run faster or not as my pace at times was touching 7:20's (which is not my easy pace!!). So my pace was yo yo'ing a bit trying to hit the pace.

    Only when I turned into the wind did the HR pick up to 140's. Slowed right down in the last mile to bring it back down below 130.

    Overall 6.44m @ 7:51 pace (Ave HR 138 - 76%)

    Had I of ran by feel, it would have been a lot slower and closer to a recovery pace/HR run.

    This HR stuff is very interesting..............

    Jesus, I thought you were done complicating stuff!! :rolleyes: :P

    For a man who is now a great fan of easy running, you are planning plenty sessions!


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    #103
    AuldManKing
    Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    drquirky wrote: »
    Ignore the heartrate crap and keep your easy runs sensible and your recovery runs slow ...,
    blockic wrote: »
    Jesus, I thought you were done complicating stuff!! :rolleyes: :P

    For a man who is now a great fan of easy running, you are planning plenty sessions!

    Ha! - I had hoped the HR stuff would help keep it easy - obviously I don't understand enough.

    For the sessions - sure its Christmas - cant beat a good session :p


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    #104
    drquirky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭drquirky


    AuldManKing wrote: »
    Ha! - I had hoped the HR stuff would help keep it easy - obviously I don't understand enough.

    For the sessions - sure its Christmas - cant beat a good session :p

    I'm actually being serious AMK- the logs are littered w people talking about how their HR for an easy run is this or that and sticking to it and ending up injured.

    Your HR measures one system only- many different factors make up training stress etc. I've said it before but most of my recovery runs are between 7:45 and 8:30 m/m while my easy runs are usually around 7-7:30 m/m. Slower than a lot of people on the logs who are nowhere near me in races. Keep in mind TRR runs his easy stuff at these paces as well lol!

    My point is I'm sure if I'd worn a HRM at the height of my marathon training it might have put my "easy" pace at 6:30 or so- but then I would have ended up injured and not recovering from runs!


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    #105
    AuldManKing
    Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Thanks for the elaboration Dr Q - great input - I don't understand it enough to make it part of my training - was worth an experiment last night as it was just an easy run - not something I'll be bringing into my training full time.

    On the positive front - watching HR does make my recovery runs slower.


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    #106
    AuldManKing
    Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Wednesday 11th Dec: 5 miles @ 8:41 per mile. Didn't venture to the PP for this one, kept it nice and handy around the estates, passed Blanch center and back through Laurel Lodge - done this about 6pm so lots of cars spewing out exhaust etc.

    A not so nice 'Scene of Changery' as they say, somewhere........

    Thursday 12th Dec
    I had planned a 4x1m at CV pace (6:05) with 2 mins recovery, so set the watch up for this and went off on a 2 mile warm up that brought me to the PP.
    During this 2 miles - I was thinking "why am I doing mile reps??" - didn't come up with a decent answer apart from;

    (1) To get a different stimulus into the legs - different from easy running - "Well I could get that from strides or shorter reps or hill bursts"
    (2) I'm hung up about hitting sub 30 for 5 miles in Ferrycarraig - "a poxy 5 mile race isn't the 'main thing' now is it Alan??"

    So decided that following the last 5-6 days where I had a 5k & a tempo run, my body wouldn't thank me for a 4x1m 'hero' session - so I benched it and may not revisit mile reps (at this pace) again til after the spring :eek: - or until I can come up with a proper reason for doing them in the 1st place that fit with my long term goal.

    Marathon training starts 1st week in Jan - I want to get to that point having a couple of 16-17 milers done, a few different length Tempo runs and some short & long hill work (that will include shorter reps).

    That is the main thing!


    Anyway - back to today..........

    Done the 2 mile warm up and done some long & short fartlek stuff at mainly tempo pace.
    Done 1 long stretch - a full loop and a bit of OS/Furze road - (2mile @ 6:20) and some shorter bursts.
    1 mile warm down.


    7.93 miles @ 7.22 pace


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    #107
    Tom Joad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Tom Joad


    So you've started talking to yourself now I see - no wonder you need multiple usernames :D.

    On a more serious note - are you not just wrecking your own head by overthinking stuff?? Sometimes it is just as simple as:

    1. put on runners,
    2. head out to run,
    3. Enjoy run,
    4. head home.


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    #108
    statss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭statss


    Tom Joad wrote: »
    So you've started talking to yourself now I see - no wonder you need multiple usernames :D.

    On a more serious note - are you not just wrecking your own head by overthinking stuff?? Sometimes it is just as simple as:

    1. put on runners,
    2. head out to run,
    3. Enjoy run,
    4. head home.

    5. Profit?


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    #109
    Gavlor
    Registered Users Posts: 6,176 ✭✭✭Gavlor


    AuldManKing wrote: »
    Wednesday 11th Dec: 5 miles @ 8:41 per mile. Didn't venture to the PP for this one, kept it nice and handy around the estates, passed Blanch center and back through Laurel Lodge - done this about 6pm so lots of cars spewing out exhaust etc.

    A not so nice 'Scene of Changery' as they say, somewhere........

    Thursday 12th Dec
    I had planned a 4x1m at CV pace (6:05) with 2 mins recovery, so set the watch up for this and went off on a 2 mile warm up that brought me to the PP.
    During this 2 miles - I was thinking "why am I doing mile reps??" - didn't come up with a decent answer apart from;

    (1) To get a different stimulus into the legs - different from easy running - "Well I could get that from strides or shorter reps or hill bursts"
    (2) I'm hung up about hitting sub 30 for 5 miles in Ferrycarraig - "a poxy 5 mile race isn't the 'main thing' now is it Alan??"

    So decided that following the last 5-6 days where I had a 5k & a tempo run, my body wouldn't thank me for a 4x1m 'hero' session - so I benched it and may not revisit mile reps (at this pace) again til after the spring :eek: - or until I can come up with a proper reason for doing them in the 1st place that fit with my long term goal.

    Marathon training starts 1st week in Jan - I want to get to that point having a couple of 16-17 milers done, a few different length Tempo runs and some short & long hill work (that will include shorter reps).

    That is the main thing!


    Anyway - back to today..........

    Done the 2 mile warm up and done some long & short fartlek stuff at mainly tempo pace.
    Done 1 long stretch - a full loop and a bit of OS/Furze road - (2mile @ 6:20) and some shorter bursts.
    1 mile warm down.


    7.93 miles @ 7.22 pace

    Firstly, does anybody on boards a/r actually have a full time job?!

    Secondly, get your head around the sub 30. Based on your present form, it's ONLY sub 30. You'll have no problem with it.


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    #110
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Tom Joad wrote: »
    So you've started talking to yourself now I see - no wonder you need multiple usernames :D.

    On a more serious note - are you not just wrecking your own head by overthinking stuff?? Sometimes it is just as simple as:

    1. put on runners,
    2. head out to run,
    3. Enjoy run,
    4. head home.

    I would have to agree. It is important think out your approach and your plan but this is at the start of a training block not prior to a session.

    Regards devising your own plan bit of advice I can give from making many mistakes down through the years.

    1) Don't pick and choose sessions because they look like great workouts. We could all create Canova/Lydiard/Daniels/HADD/Hadley/Rubio/Pfitzinger Super plan but the fact is that it wouldn't work. You will get more about learning the why of sessions and how they fit in the coaches overall plan for the athlete. Each session you see on the internet can be a useful tool in your repertoire but these are just pieces that must fit together to make the overall puzzle

    2) Don't be afraid to change the specifics of a workout as long as you are getting the right stimulus. Very rarely do my sessions on paper correlate to what is done on the day. Again this is a case of listening to your body and adapting to environment and the athletes current state. If a cruise interval session is on the cards that doesn't mean you have to hit HM pace if there is a gale force wind. Similar if you are working too hard to hold pace have confidence in yourself to cut a session short if needs be. Many coaches implement a bail out time that they have if a athlete can't hit on a rep, they are done for the day and the plug is pulled.

    3) Don't ignore the mental. We often look at sessions in terms of zones to see what benefit we are getting from them and solely focus on that. Sometimes a pace can be in between "zones" yet work because it allows your body to get used to running at that pace. A good example of this I can think of is 1k reps I had planned for this weekend that I subbed out for a 5k race. Based of physiological benefit I would probably get more benefit from 8x1000m but I know that mentally I would benefit more from pushing hard when tired in the latter stages of the race.

    4) Don't stick rigidly to a plan. Adapt to cope with life. If you don't feel you are recovered enough don't be afraid to take an extra day easy in between sessions.


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    #111
    AuldManKing
    Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Tom Joad wrote: »
    So you've started talking to yourself now I see - no wonder you need multiple usernames :D.

    On a more serious note - are you not just wrecking your own head by overthinking stuff?? Sometimes it is just as simple as:

    1. put on runners,
    2. head out to run,
    3. Enjoy run,
    4. head home.

    Sometimes I may just put TMI on Boards :pac:

    nah - not wrecking my head or overthinking at all - (well not like last year anyway).
    I'm not following a specific plan at the moment so kinda making it up each week - based on progressing each run.

    Made the decision on todays mile reps in the space of a 20 seconds. Decision made - move on.
    Probably took me longer to write it on Boards than to make the decision.

    Not going down that path like last year............

    I really enjoyed my run btw :D


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    #112
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Gavlor wrote: »
    Firstly, does anybody on boards a/r actually have a full time job?!

    Secondly, get your head around the sub 30. Based on your present form, it's ONLY sub 30. You'll have no problem with it.


    I have 2. Simple advice time management and hate kids :p


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    #113
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    ecoli wrote: »
    Many coaches implement a bail out time that they have if a athlete can't hit on a rep, they are done for the day and the plug is pulled.

    This is actually excellent advice. I remember last winter doing MP runs (usually 10 miles). On two seperate occasions I couldn't seem to get anywhere near pace over the first mile or 2. Both times I pulled the plug and both times I hit the session the following day without a bother. I could never understand it, but some days you just don't seem to be firing on all cylinders :confused:


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    #114
    AuldManKing
    Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    thanks guys - I appreciate the replies, but I think my post came across as if I was over complicating stuff, which I wasn't.

    the intent of my post was to say that I questioned the benefit of mile reps (over other more relevant stuff) and then made the decision to not do them. (But still did a cracking workout :D)

    I'll put down on paper what my next 3 weeks will look like, leading up to my Marathon plan.

    ............and relaxxxxx............


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    #115
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    AuldManKing wrote: »
    thanks guys - I appreciate the replies, but I think my post came across as if I was over complicating stuff, which I wasn't.

    the intent of my post was to say that I questioned the benefit of mile reps (over other more relevant stuff) and then made the decision to not do them. (But still did a cracking workout :D)

    I'll put down on paper what my next 3 weeks will look like, leading up to my Marathon plan.

    ............and relaxxxxx............

    This is why I stopped logging ;):pac:


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    #116
    Gavlor
    Registered Users Posts: 6,176 ✭✭✭Gavlor


    menoscemo wrote: »
    This is why I stopped logging ;):pac:

    Yeah me too....





    Nothing to do with me being a lazy f&cker


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    #117
    TRR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    menoscemo wrote: »
    This is why I stopped logging ;):pac:

    That's not the story I heard. I heard the Internet sent you a personal message saying it was already full of crap :) only messing meno, I miss your log!


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    #118
    thewolf_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭thewolf_ie


    menoscemo wrote: »
    This is why I stopped logging ;):pac:

    :)


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    #119
    AuldManKing
    Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Thursday 12th PM - Football :) - 1st game in a while - despite the great and uncomplicated run that day - Jaysus I was good.


    Friday13th: AM - Rubdown from Castleknocks finest. PM:3.6 miles at 8:46 pace. - Legs felt fairly ok after the football & rubdown.


    Sunday 15th: 16.2 miles @ 7:41 pace - fairly even splits throughout +/- 10 secs. Blustery out there - glad to get it done.


    50.82 miles for the week


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    #120
    AuldManKing
    Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Monday 16th: Christmas stuff & family got in the way.............bah humbug.

    Tuesday 17th: Based on something Ecoli said above I'm thinking strongly of discarding my made up hodge podge plan and following this.

    Tonight's run: 9.79m with 3 at MP (+/- 10s).

    1st 5 miles at 7:40 (Down Knockmaron hill and into PP at Parkgate street)
    3 miles MP: Ave 6:38 (up Chesterfield Ave - hurt a bit :o )
    1.8m warm down 8:15

    2m walk with the dog afterwards - poor thing is getting less & less runs with me.

    total: 9.79m @ 7:30 pace


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    #121
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    AuldManKing wrote: »

    Tuesday 17th: Based on something Ecoli said above I'm thinking strongly of discarding my made up hodge podge plan and following this.

    For a man with a plan; you sure go through the plans :D

    My 2 cents: keep it simple. Run lots of miles. Do your long run. Run fast once or twice a week. Stop thinking so much :pac:


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