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Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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Comments

  • #1902
    brendanwalsh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭brendanwalsh


    12% increase across the board is sly too.

    12% for the graduate nurse on 25k is 2 grand.

    12% for the senior nurse manager on 80k is 6 or 7 grand.

    Rich get richer.
    Poor get **** all.


  • #1903
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    No it takes more Leaving Cert points to get into General Nusing than Engineering , not that that makes a difference. A Bsc is a BSc .

    Are there not tens if not hundreds of eng courses?
    General nursing is higher than all of them?


  • #1904
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    brendanwalsh wrote: »
    12% increase across the board is sly too.

    12% for the graduate nurse on 25k is 2 grand.

    12% for the senior nurse manager on 80k is 6 or 7 grand.

    Rich get richer.
    Poor get **** all.

    Well the current crop want to benefit immediately....they aren't striking for future graduates :)


  • #1905
    Flyingsnowball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭Flyingsnowball


    Augeo wrote: »
    Are there not tens if not hundreds of eng courses?
    General nursing is higher than all of them?

    Nursing is higher than everything and how good you are at learning geography and Spanish and other leaving cert things off by heart proves this unless it doesn’t then something else proves it.


  • #1906
    mikhail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭mikhail


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    No it takes more Leaving Cert points to get into General Nusing than Engineering , not that that makes a difference. A Bsc is a BSc .
    General Nursing is 100 points lower at UCD than Engineering, and 80 lower at TCD. This is publically available information. I don't really see why you're just making **** up.


  • #1907
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,208 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Mocadonna wrote: »
    True - and the ANP scale goes from 56000-70000. Don't make out that they are all on the lower wage, it's disingenuous.

    Is that all you got from her post?
    What I got was a woman who was grateful to nurses for having saved her son's life ?
    In response to your statement yes, that would be a nurse prescriber who usually would have studied for a qualification / masters to be eligible and have at least 5 years of specialising at an advanced level in that area, never mind the other qualifications and experience, so they deserve it.


  • #1908
    chicorytip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,168 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    hawkelady wrote:
    As the title suggests ... do you think the government will give what the inmo is asking for ? The way pascal and Harris is talking it looks like it’s going to be a long drawn out process. Who will buckle first. Btw, I do hope the nurses get what they want and they do a great job.


    Why should they? Nurses, together with the rest of the civil and public service, are members of the most priveliged sector in society - those with permanent, pensionable employment.


  • #1909
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    mikhail wrote: »
    General Nursing is 100 points lower at UCD than Engineering, and 80 lower at TCD. This is publically available information. I don't really see why you're just making **** up.

    Doesn't nursing require an interview in TCD?
    Anyways all a points score mean is there's higher demand for engineering than nursing.
    Points for nursing have dropped most years as demand has dropped off.


  • #1910
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭1641


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    This is not true. Many nurses never attain these grades but retire from senior staff nurse grade. . Also many nurses never get paid for a qualification or location allowance, so are dependant on weekend shifts , bank holidays and nights to bump their pay up to a reasonable amount.
    My understanding is that the increases are being sought for staff nurses only as the others are promotional grades with different payscales.
    hawkelady wrote: »
    AFAIK it’s an across the board increase.


    So it seems that the demand is for an across the board 12% increase - all grades. So the annual earnings from all grades is the correct average (€57,000). Of course not everyone is going to get to the top scale - nor is everyone going to stay at the bottom forever. Some will earn well above the average, some below. I stand by my post, Goldengirl! -


    Of course , CNMs and CNSs must be included in the average. Just because you haven't reached this grade yet is irrelevant. It is part of the nurses progression ladder. And they all want the increase.


  • #1911
    Miike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Miike


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    But nurses are angels.

    Is this what you do when you run out of things to say? Resort to childish remarks?

    I know this is AH but still, the mind boggles at some of the stuff in this thread.


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  • #1912
    Flyingsnowball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭Flyingsnowball


    Miike wrote: »
    Is this what you do when you run out of things to say? Resort to childish remarks?

    I know this is AH but still, the mind boggles at some of the stuff in this thread.

    The site has all sorts Miike. I said in another thread I didnt think they needed more money and were earning more than the average person and somebody replied with——— F off .
    They had a few posts and weren’t just setting up an account to abuse people.

    They should teach people how to have a discussion in school while realizing some people may have differing views.


  • #1913
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Miike wrote: »
    Just to tack on to this comment that one of the core aspects of nursing in Ireland is working with autonomy. Just because someones a staff nurse and not ANP doesn't mean they're job is to do as told by "THE doctor". Some of the staff nurses I work with I'd trust over most of the senior reg's with myself or my family every day of the week. This whole "nurses don't make decisions" is pure tripe and reminiscent of vocational nursing.

    You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about the interaction of doctors and nurses. Doctors are one of the most supportive groups of the nurses' seeking of better pay and conditions and the working relationship between doctors and nurses is generally excellent. Just as there are some poor doctors there are some poor nurses. That's life.

    Your comments are filled with the inaccuracies of someone who has a superficial knowledge of the system but thinks they know it all.


  • #1914
    Miike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Miike


    Nonoperational wrote: »
    You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about the interaction of doctors and nurses. Doctors are one of the most supportive groups of the nurses' seeking of better pay and conditions.

    Your comments are filled with the inaccuracies of someone who has a superficial knowledge of the system but thinks they know it all.

    I don't disagree that doctors are supportive of nurses and never stated otherwise. I'm using hyperbole to highlight what people think of the modern nursing profession compared to what people used to think. There's an old set of nursing notes that were handed in to the TCD library for which the name escapes me but they read: "To be a professional nurse means to swear absolute loyalty to the doctor.", they're around 80 years old and that's how things used to be. I'm simply challenging what used to be so people can be less ill informed about what it means to be a nurse today.


  • #1915
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Miike wrote: »
    I don't disagree that doctors are supportive of nurses and never stated otherwise. I'm using hyperbole to highlight what people think of the modern nursing profession compared to what people used to think. There's an old set of nursing notes that were handed in to the TCD library for which the name escapes me but they read: "To be a professional nurse means to swear absolute loyalty to the doctor.", they're around 80 years old and that's how things used to be. I'm simply challenging what used to be so people can be less ill informed about what it means to be a nurse today.

    That is a fair point. Although we do need to continue to expand and modernise the role. Some of the graduates coming through are really excellent but there can still be resistance to change from more senior nurses. Although to expand roles you need to have more support staff coming in taking over some of the duties that modern nurses shouldn't be doing, in my opinion. And although not the point or indeed the direct intention, a good progressive nurse also makes a doctors life immeasurably easier.


  • #1916
    Flyingsnowball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭Flyingsnowball


    Miike wrote: »
    I don't disagree that doctors are supportive of nurses and never stated otherwise. I'm using hyperbole to highlight what people think of the modern nursing profession compared to what people used to think. There's an old set of nursing notes that were handed in to the TCD library for which the name escapes me but they read: "To be a professional nurse means to swear absolute loyalty to the doctor.", they're around 80 years old and that's how things used to be. I'm simply challenging what used to be so people can be less ill informed about what it means to be a nurse today.

    Yeah today they pretend that you have a say in what to do because it motivates you better. My boss breezes in and asks me what certain fittings do from time to time even though they are on the drawings he gave me. The lads who report to me see this and think I’m the real brains behind the operation and work hard when I ask them to. I ask them to work hard when my boss rings me and tells me he needs the lads to work hard. The nurse has just been trained to do what the doctor would want her to do so now he doesn’t have to tell her what to do. It motivates the nurse more thinking she is making the decisions.


  • #1917
    Miike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Miike


    Nonoperational wrote: »
    That is a fair point. Although we do need to continue to expand and modernise the role. Some of the graduates coming through are excellent but there is still resistance to change from more senior nurses. Although to expand roles you need to have more support staff coming in taking over some of the duties that modern nurses shouldn't be doing, in my opinion.
    I agree entirely and I think that change is starting to happen slowly but happening nevertheless. The new nursing curriculum started this year and really focuses on facilitating that modernisation.


    I had a scour through the pictures on my phone to find the line I quoted from those notes and despite not finding the exact line I was looking for I found this: which kind of drives home what I was saying.
    Sr1ooBC.jpg



    Point in case below regarding what I was saying.
    Flyingsnowball wrote: »
    Yeah today they pretend that you have a say in what to do because it motivates you better. My boss breezes in and asks me what certain fittings do from time to time even though they are on the drawings he gave me. The lads who report to me see this and think I’m the real brains behind the operation and work hard when I ask them to. I ask them to work hard when my boss rings me and tells me he needs the lads to work hard. The nurse has just been trained to do what the doctor would want her to do so now he doesn’t have to tell her what to do. It motivates the nurse more thinking she is making the decisions.

    The similarities are comical.


  • #1918
    Mocadonna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Mocadonna


    There is one small thing that is bugging me. A nurse that works with an occupational therapist gets an allowance of 3700 per year. Give or take the Occupational Therapist basic scale stats at 35000, The nurses starts at 30000, plus the allowance is 33700. Not a huge difference. When you consider the OT gets no overtime, didn't get paid for placement and has no other allowances...

    The fact that nurses are accepting an allowance for working in this area could also be taken as an admission that it is more difficult work?


  • #1919
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Mocadonna wrote: »

    The fact that nurses are accepting an allowance for working in this area could also be taken as an admission that it is more difficult work?

    Some jobs are more difficult and stressful that others. Hence the allowances.
    A&E and ITU may be more difficult that geriatrics and obstetrics for example.


  • #1920
    Flyingsnowball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭Flyingsnowball


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Some jobs are more difficult and stressful that others. Hence the allowances.
    A&E and ITU may be more difficult that geriatrics and obstetrics for example.

    I was a security guard in a supermarket for about two week and nearly headed to the gp for the way I was feeling. No allowance for it. My tax money was being spent on giving burses allowances for being a bit busy.


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  • #1921
    Mocadonna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Mocadonna


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Some jobs are more difficult and stressful that others. Hence the allowances.
    A&E and ITU may be more difficult that geriatrics and obstetrics for example.

    I agree. There are also allowances for A&E and ITU. In the example I cited however everyone is working in the same department.


  • #1922
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The must be flush enough if they can afford all these planned strikes.


  • #1923
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Flyingsnowball wrote: »
    I was a security guard in a supermarket for about two week and nearly headed to the gp for the way I was feeling

    Bored?
    Augeo wrote: »
    The must be flush enough if they can afford all these planned strikes.
    Union members get strike pay.


  • #1924
    Flyingsnowball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭Flyingsnowball


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Bored?


    Union members get strike pay.

    Yeah security gaurds fighting people all day are bored and strike pay is something everybody gets. From the mothers teet to the public teet. Deserving of nothing but a reality check I say


  • #1925
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Flyingsnowball wrote: »
    Yeah security gaurds fighting people all day are bored and strike pay is something everybody gets. From the mothers teet to the public teet. Deserving of nothing but a reality check I say

    As sure as night follows day, nurses will get a payrise.


  • #1926
    Flyingsnowball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭Flyingsnowball


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    As sure as night follows day, nurses will get a payrise.

    As much as it makes me sick I will vote Fine Gael if they stand up to the entire public sector about the annual fecal merry go round fat cat toilet pay rise flush that happens every year


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  • #1927
    brendanwalsh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭brendanwalsh


    Mocadonna wrote: »
    There is one small thing that is bugging me. A nurse that works with an occupational therapist gets an allowance of 3700 per year. Give or take the Occupational Therapist basic scale stats at 35000, The nurses starts at 30000, plus the allowance is 33700. Not a huge difference. When you consider the OT gets no overtime, didn't get paid for placement and has no other allowances...

    The fact that nurses are accepting an allowance for working in this area could also be taken as an admission that it is more difficult work?


    What's the allowance?

    Certainly the nurse comes out better off after the four years of college than the OT who had to scrimp and scrounge to pay for accommodation, travel , clothing etc, while nurse is earning a basic wage for her four years. Factor in the fact a lot of nurses could be getting college grants etc also on top of the full basic wage. Double time for working Sundays. Not many get paid a free ride for the four years college and overtime on top to boot. Then after all that, the f off to dubai for 80k a year salary tax free!!!!


  • #1928
    Miike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Miike


    brendanwalsh wrote: »
    What's the allowance?

    Certainly the nurse comes out better off after the four years of college than the OT who had to scrimp and scrounge to pay for accommodation, travel , clothing etc, while nurse is earning a basic wage for her four years. Factor in the fact a lot of nurses could be getting college grants etc also on top of the full basic wage. Double time for working Sundays. Not many get paid a free ride for the four years college and overtime on top to boot. Then after all that, the f off to dubai for 80k a year salary tax free!!!!

    Nurses aren't paid for their four years. They're paid 19k/a while an RPS on their Internship, don't make stuff up. OTs don't do an internship. Overtime as a student?? Are you even on the same plane on existence as the rest of us?

    Just in the interest of clarity: A student on their internship is prereg, counted as a member of staff and is actually an employee of the HSE at this stage of their study. They don't receive a euro outside of this at any stage of the program.


  • #1929
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Update

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0203/1027272-nurses/


  • #1930
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,148 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Update

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0203/1027272-nurses/

    Makes sense. Don't work then why recieve pay?


  • #1931
    Miike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Miike


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Makes sense. Don't work then why recieve pay?

    They don't receive pay while on strike...?


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  • #1932
    KaneToad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Update

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0203/1027272-nurses/

    They should be penalised as they are in breach of the agreement. Dangerous precedent if they're not. Teachers would feel rightly aggrieved if nurses received different treatment. Tricky times for the govt.


  • #1933
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,158 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    deleted , already covered


  • #1934
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭1641


    I can't believe (or don't want to believe) that lots of nurses don't have an intense sense of shame and embarrassment at this :

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/now-100000-face-hospital-chaos-as-nurse-strike-bites-37779712.html


  • #1935
    beertons
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 23,151 ✭✭✭✭beertons


    Miike wrote: »
    They don't receive pay while on strike...?

    My wife won't get paid for strike days, unless she is on emergency cover for the house.

    She's looking at agency work to cover her losses, which means 7-8 on Saturday and Sunday's.


  • #1936
    Miike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Miike


    beertons wrote: »
    My wife won't get paid for strike days, unless she is on emergency cover for the house.

    She's looking at agency work to cover her losses, which means 7-8 on Saturday and Sunday's.

    I know they don't receive pay. I'm questioning why people are saying they are getting paid while striking.


  • #1937
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭1641


    beertons wrote: »
    My wife won't get paid for strike days, unless she is on emergency cover for the house.

    She's looking at agency work to cover her losses, which means 7-8 on Saturday and Sunday's.




    Good one - they should all try that. Go on strike and then work for an Agency to cover for absent worker's on strike. Cake and eat it for all. When do we want it? Now!


  • #1938
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    If it stopped at the nurses I'd have no issue. They do a difficult job well and deserve to be paid for it.

    As someone else said, a nurse qualification should be upped a few grades to bring it into line with similarly qualified professionals.

    Problem is it won't stop at nurses, the whole PS will want "parity" and "pay restoration".

    Paid for by private sector workers who never had huge pay during the boom and now are paying wodges of extra taxes, many of whom got a 100% pay cut in 2009/10.


  • #1939
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    professore wrote: »
    If it stopped at the nurses I'd have no issue. They do a difficult job well and deserve to be paid for it.

    As someone else said, a nurse qualification should be upped a few grades to bring it into line with similarly qualified professionals.

    Problem is it won't stop at nurses, the whole PS will want "parity" and "pay restoration".

    Paid for by private sector workers who never had huge pay during the boom and now are paying wodges of extra taxes, many of whom got a 100% pay cut in 2009/10.

    maybe the problem is more so with the private sector, also barring in mind, public sector workers also pay taxes?


  • #1940
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    maybe the problem is more so with the private sector, also barring in mind, public sector workers also pay taxes?

    How the **** is the problem with the private sector workers? They don't have big powerful unions to look after them in general. The pay in the public sector is twice that in the private sector. What do you think private sector workers start on? And if its so great, why not work there yourself?


  • #1941
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    professore wrote: »
    How the **** is the problem with the private sector workers? They don't have big powerful unions to look after them in general. The pay in the public sector is twice that in the private sector. What do you think private sector workers start on? And if its so great, why not work there yourself?

    is there less security in regards job security etc, in the private sector compared to the public sector? is there a problem with de-unionisation in the private sector, and if so, why advocate for it? is it a good idea that private sector workers start on lower pay than public sector workers, if so, why advocate for public sector workers to earn less, would this also have an overall downward trend of pay in both pubic and private sectors, or a possible of suppression of overall wage inflation? barring in mind, ive only ever been a private sector worker.


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  • #1942
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭1641


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    i or a possible of suppression of overall wage inflation? barring in mind, ive only ever been a private sector worker.


    Your back to inflation as a cure again. Spend more on wages, spend more on services, spend more on everything- and the merry go round will all pay for ifself somehow. Venezuela tried this in spades. Official inflation statistics stopped being published in 2013 because they were so embarrising. Unofficial estimates are now for about 70,000% -80,000%! In other words, the currency is worthless. There is nothing in the shops. Who could run a business when getting paid in currency that is worthless within minutes of it being handed over?

    But who cares, Wanderly? Everyone can have barrow loads of worthless cash. Not short of toilet paper at least.


  • #1943
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    1641 wrote: »
    Your back to inflation as a cure again. Spend more on wages, spend more on services, spend more on everything- and the merry go round will all pay for ifself somehow. Venezuela tried this in spades. Official inflation statistics stopped being published in 2013 because they were so embarrising. Unofficial estimates are now for about 70,000% -80,000%! In other words, the currency is worthless. There is nothing in the shops. Who could run a business when getting paid in currency that is worthless within minutes of it being handed over?

    But who cares, Wanderly? Everyone can have barrow loads of worthless cash. Not short of toilet paper at least.

    oh ffs, we re back to this nonsense again, the crash has showed us many important things, one being, creating money is easy, programs such as quantitative easing have created trillions, but what has this truly done, but create further asset price inflation, but has this truly worked, has this money actually trickled down? if we continue in this direction, prepare for further disruption and increasing insecurity in our most critical of needs, i.e. politically, economically, socially, environmentally etc etc!


  • #1944
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    maybe the problem is more so with the private sector, also barring in mind, public sector workers also pay taxes?

    The private sector is fantastic, you largely get what you deserve over your working life of 40/50 years......... €10/€12 an hour jobs pay €10/€12 and you don't get double or treble that for doing the same gig for decades :)
    If you want more you try and get a better job........... it works well for 80% of folk, and the spongers get fed and housed from the tax take etc. It's win win really.


  • #1945
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Augeo wrote: »
    The private sector is fantastic, you largely get what you deserve over your working life of 40/50 years......... €10/€12 an hour jobs pay €10/€12 and you don't get double or treble that for doing the same gig for decades :)
    If you want more you try and get a better job........... it works well for 80% of folk, and the spongers get fed and housed from the tax take etc. It's win win really.

    more rubbish again, we dont live in this equal world, we dont have equality of opportunity etc, this is a fantasy idea, people have had enough, and are showing it in many ways, particularly evident in outcomes of elections


  • #1946
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    more rubbish again, we dont live in this equal world, we dont have equality of opportunity etc, this is a fantasy idea, people have had enough, and are showing it in many ways, particularly evident in outcomes of elections

    It's not rubbish at all.
    Most folk aren't looney left.............. elections are showing that folk are still largely voting for FF or FG who are both quite similar except FF are more inclined to throw cash about without thinking too longterm.

    Ireland is relatively equal, 3rd level education for most who want it ........ PLC courses, trades etc. The world is your oyster unless you are a lazy waster or you spent your youth on a scrambler terrorising your community :) If you are the latter you'll likely get housed and given several hundred a week to look after your significant other and your sprogs. Win win.

    People are actually having enough of the looney left getting more than their share since the recession......... that's what folk have had enough of.


  • #1947
    Ush1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,476 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    more rubbish again, we dont live in this equal world, we dont have equality of opportunity etc, this is a fantasy idea, people have had enough, and are showing it in many ways, particularly evident in outcomes of elections

    Where is there lack of equal opportunities in Ireland?

    Why do you assume a downward trend for pay in the private sector? Companies compete for labour, skilled labour. So you can be well renumerated with the right skills and experience.


  • #1948
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Augeo wrote:
    People are actually having enough of the looney left getting more than their share since the recession......... that's what folk have had enough of.


    More rubbish again, we do not live in an equal opportunity society, access to our most critical of needs, I.e. education, health care, accommodation, jobs market etc etc, is not equal, and probably growing more unequal. You're presenting a fantasy world, many of these critical of needs aren't even available, or poorly available to those working, and we re not the only country experiencing these issues. We cannot continue with things such as rapid asset price inflation and relatively low wage inflation etc, it will cause further destabilisation if we do.


  • #1949
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    More rubbish again, we do not live in an equal opportunity society, access to our most critical of needs, I.e. education, health care, accommodation, jobs market etc etc, is not equal, and probably growing more unequal........................

    Just because you claim something is rubbish (repeatedly) doesn't make it so.
    There are no barriers to education in Ireland. Recovered heroin addicts have gone to college and progressed in life. It involves some work ethic and graft.

    Your idea of an equal society is where the dofnckalls are as well off as the getupofftheirholes and work folk :)
    It doesn't and shouldn't work like that, thankfully.
    One of the biggest problems we currently have is the latter supporting the former to their (the latter's) detriment.

    You'll call that rubbish, I don't givetwofooks :)


  • #1950
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭1641


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    creating money is easy, programs such as quantitative easing have created trillions, but what has this truly done, but create further asset price inflation,


    Ireland cannot "create" money.

    The ECB provided the quantitative easing.
    This may yet cause yet unforseen problems. But it helped Ireland a lot by by pushing international borrowing rates low - thereby allowing us (as a country) to borrow to pay our way again (wages, services and benefits).
    If interest rates had stayed high (or if they go high again) a much higher proportion of our annual tax take would have gone on paying off our debts (same as in mortgage interest).
    QE also helped us indirectly by fueling the recovery in other European countries, boosting our foreign trade - and private sector recovery.


    BUt this is wandering a long way from the strike!


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  • #1951
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    This is all over the place!
    According to this post, nurses would be better if they were caring, less educated, didn't ask for more money and took the 'ample opportunity to work abroad '??
    Teachers too ! :) How exactly does that solve the staffing crisis?
    Nurses do not get paid for every course they do, only the qualifications they are using to look after their patients.And that is capped at two major awards.
    Nurses' don't get paid 'for management' , if they apply for a manager's job they are encouraged to have it or be in training for it. A ,it of nurses do courses on their own time and wages because they want to give the best care to their patients, and of course be eligible for promotion, because it's the only way to get a decent salary. Same with teachers I would imagine. Only a troglodyte would want to go back to the old days.

    They are the ones telling us that they get into nursing because they want to look after people- I'm just pointing out that if that was the case then the nurse-patient ratio would be the only thing to strike about, and they wouldn't be leaving in droves. I'm not talking about going back to the old days where the nuns were scrubbing everything with Jeyes fluid all day and all night- I'm saying that we don't need more managers than nurses and not all nurses need every qualification. We need nurses to be nurses, not doctors.


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