Dad finds out that none of his kids are biologically his.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 10-01-2019 7:46pm

Icemancometh wrote: »

Maternity is a fact, paternity is an opinion.

Steve Jobs tried that one alright. Saying that half the men in America could be his daughter’s father or something. :pac:

Ray Palmer · 10-01-2019 7:48pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Maybe he wouldn't have "made it" without her help at the critical early stages - most startup thingys fail

You know I completely buy that as a reason for divorce payments being split equally. The things is that is not true in many cases. In this case she was allowed not work to raise the family but it wasn't his family. She couldn't have children with him so she effectively got him to pay for her lifestyle while cheating him.

Paternity fraud is an interesting issue for many reasons. It delves into what being a father is and also the control women have and how sexist the systems are.

There are cases where women intentionally lied to men about being fathers and got no punishment with the men still needing to pay maintenance. Including stories of men who married women that they believed were carrying their child.

There most certainly be a punishment for such fraud.

When any women who claims misandry doesn't exist because it isn't backed up by the state there is an example. Then of course there is how fathers are treated in the courts.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 10-01-2019 7:50pm

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Jaysus, that would be some destruction to a relationship if yer man says he wants the paternity test and she hasn't as much as looked at another bloke.

Yeah, it’s a weird one. I’ve no children so this is all hypothetical but if my husband asked for a paternity test, I’d agree without hesitation - nothing to hide and all - but it would change our relationship for sure. I’d just think he didn’t trust me. And I realise a lot is at stake but it would definitely change the relationship dynamic.

gctest50 · 10-01-2019 7:50pm

seamus wrote: »

Neither of these figures are correct. This is the rate of paternity fraud where the father already suspects the children are not his..........
.

You'd have bias there though, how suspicious were they before the test ?

Wibbs · 10-01-2019 7:51pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I don't know, I don't think even "feminist nuts" think it's ok to do this. Probably they are more thinking of the impact on the kids of having the person they grew up thinking was their father suddenly disappear. Surely trying to maintain some kind of relationship is best for everyone. No doubt the "father" will also love the children like his own.

In this case I think the kids had already cut contact with him due to his behaviour.

From what I've gathered they only cut contact after all this came out. IIRC one of his sons keeps in touch. The other kids have some neck to cut him off, given he was their dad in name and raised and paid for their fancy educations etc. Though I'd not be surprised if she poisoned that relationship and kids often will side with their ma. What about their biological father? I wonder what their attitude is to him, though it seems he's completely out of the picture.

And as for "best for everyone", for the kids maybe yes, the wife can bugger off in a situation like that, the father would want to have some level of forgiveness built in. I'd not have it TBH.

I would consider this a way more serious crime than it's taken for. Consider the horrible crime of rape. One final horror of that is if the woman ends up pregnant and ends up carrying a kid she had no choice in conceiving(if she doesn't terminate). And it's still her kid. Being duped into raising a few kids over decades and finding out they're not yours? Jesus Christ. I'd be close to murderous TBH. And no it's not the same as adoption. That's a choice.

You would think he might have been suspicious with the whole her insisting on Jewish names for the kids though. Which also suggests she knew he wasn't their father. I suppose he just trusted her. Naturally enough. Nasty devious cow and no mistake.

josip · 10-01-2019 7:52pm

seamus wrote: »

Neither of these figures are correct. This is the rate of paternity fraud where the father already suspects the children are not his.

Across the entire population, the most recent UK study puts it at 1 in 500.
...

Did you mean 1 in 50 ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_fraud

ahnowbrowncow · 10-01-2019 7:53pm

seamus wrote: »

Neither of these figures are correct. This is the rate of paternity fraud where the father already suspects the children are not his.

Across the entire population, the most recent UK study puts it at 1 in 50.

A more recent study of suspicious men increased this 1 in 4 to 1 in 2.

Which is good news; If you think your kids are not yours and you're so suspicious that you go as far as getting a DNA test, then there's only a 50% chance that you're right.

Only 50%? What are you trying to say about my wife?

Wibbs · 10-01-2019 7:53pm

seamus wrote: »

Which is good news; If you think your kids are not yours and you're so suspicious that you go as far as getting a DNA test, then there's only a 50% chance that you're right.

Would you trust your life to a parachute that only opened half the time? I wouldn't.

10-01-2019 8:00pm

While this is a very sad case, to say that he’s infertile from birth because of Cystic Fibrosis, is alarmist. He may be infertile, but not all CF sufferers are.

Mrsmum · 10-01-2019 8:01pm

That's a rough deal. It's not really even about the money (as I'm sure he enjoyed being 'dad') but just the awful deceit of it.

10-01-2019 8:02pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

That's a rough deal. It's not really even about the money (as I'm sure he enjoyed being 'dad') but just the awful deceit of it.

the day of the divorce it was about the money for her i bet

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 10-01-2019 8:03pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why shouldn't every father and son have an absolute guarantee of their genetic identity, rather than having to rely on a third party to choose to provide it?

Looking at it in a dispassionate, theoretical way, it’s easy to say “What’s the problem?” but think about the ramifications within relationships. Like I said in another post, if my husband wanted to confirm paternity of his child, I would agree to it without hesitation. But let’s not pretend it wouldn’t leave questions hanging in the air. Asking for a paternity test is inextricably questioning the fidelity of the woman in the relationship. If you’ve never been unfaithful, that’s tough to swallow. Your character is being tested and questioned.

Wibbs · 10-01-2019 8:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

While this is a very sad case, to say that he’s infertile from birth because of Cystic Fibrosis, is alarmist. He may be infertile, but not all CF sufferers are.

While CF women can be fertile, though not as fertile as non CF women, almost all(99%) CF men are infertile.

eagle eye · 10-01-2019 8:08pm

How on Earth would you not know?

Gimme A Pound · 10-01-2019 8:10pm

Avalyn Scarce Gear wrote: »

Typical emotional blackmail. It should be mandatory to DNA test both people involved to avoid these scenarios. Typical boards response though.

What? What do you mean "typical boards response"?

There are all types of responses here.

It shouldn't be deemed a problem if a woman doesn't like the idea of a system based on the mistrust of all women. How on earth is that emotional blackmail? And typical of whom?

Obviously men wouldn't like a system that mistrusts all of them. And with good reason. If a man has good cause to mistrust his partner, he should follow his gut instinct but mandatory?

It really shouldn't be difficult to see the issue with this.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 10-01-2019 8:12pm

Fiery mutant wrote: »

So a woman with no apparent talent of her own gets 4 million in divorce, just because she happened to marry someone who was an entrepreneur and a hard worker who would work his ass off to give his family a great life.

Said hard working man who spent his life busting his gut for his family, then finds his whole married life was a con, then only gets awarded €250k for his trouble.

What a ****ed up world we live in.

If she was there from before his wealth, her contribution to the relationship may have been deemed a big help in supporting him while he built up the business. I don’t know much about this guy so I don’t know if that’s the case. But it could be. Often spouses of people who become wealthy during the marriage get generous settlements because it’s recognised that they contributed in some way to that success. Keeping the domestic show on the road can be part of that.

Just pointing out that the divorce settlement and paternity fraud penalty are two separate issues.

nice_guy80 · 10-01-2019 8:14pm

Should have shopped around and compared potential wives

Still though, what a bitch

Carlos Orange · 10-01-2019 8:15pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Imagine the government offering a service based on the premise that women are deceitful cheats. Nothing wrong with that at all. Nope

It's always funny watching some women get offended by the idea women aren't perfect on threads about this. It's pretty inevitable the government will be dna testing all kids at birth in a few years time. I think they already test for some inherited diseases based on family history and racial background.

0cp71eyxkb94qf · 10-01-2019 8:20pm

Yara Whining Threesome wrote: »

What? What do you mean "typical boards response"?

There are all types of responses here.

It shouldn't be deemed a problem if a woman doesn't like the idea of a system based on the mistrust of all women. How on earth is that emotional blackmail? And typical of whom?

Obviously men wouldn't like a system that mistrusts all of them. And with good reason. If a man has good cause to mistrust his partner, he should follow his gut instinct but mandatory?

It really shouldn't be difficult to see the issue with this.

You really love me don't you. Following me around like some love sick puppy.

There is no mistrust of women conspiracy here. What we are dealing with is a serious lack of respect for men who are embarking on parenthood which is a very serious long term commitment both financially and physically. This is certainly not the first case and it will not be the last. Now read what I said again slowly, just to ensure you don't go into another "leave da wimminz alone" meltdown mmmk?

suicide_circus · 10-01-2019 8:22pm

The term Nepotism derives from the word Nephew.

In days of yore, the only male relative a King could be 100% sure was of his bloodline was his sister's son.

His own son could be the result of infidelity on the part of his wife

His brother's son could be the result of infidelity on the part of his brother's wife.

josip · 10-01-2019 8:24pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

The term Nepotism derives from the word Nephew.

In days of yore, the only male relative a King could be 100% sure was of his bloodline was his sister's son.

His own son could be the result of infidelity on the part of his wife

His brother's son could be the result of infidelity on the part of his brother's wife.

How could the king be sure he and his sister had the same biological father?

Ultimate Seduction · 10-01-2019 8:24pm

Is it possible to find out if a child is yours without the mother knowing?

Mrsmum · 10-01-2019 8:24pm

As long as married men and women have affairs this will happen. But she must have known it was a 50/50 chance whether her husband or her lover was the father of her first child. To let it happen two more times is unforgivable really.

suicide_circus · 10-01-2019 8:25pm

josip wrote: »

How could the king be sure he and his sister had the same biological father?

good question, he couldn't, but this was as safe as he could be

suicide_circus · 10-01-2019 8:27pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

As long as married men and women have affairs this will happen.

not really. this will only happen if married women have affairs. hence the double standard on male/female chastity

Gimme A Pound · 10-01-2019 8:27pm

psinno wrote: »

It's always funny watching women get offended by the idea women aren't perfect on threads about this. It's pretty inevitable the government will be dna testing all kids at birth in a few years time. I think they already test for some inherited diseases based on family history and racial background.

But... she didn't say she had a problem with the idea that women aren't perfect.

Of course women aren't perfect - nobody is. Where did anyone indicate women are perfect?

There is a tendency by a minority to put words in women's mouths and completely misrepresent us in the latest few threads.

The issue that women have with it is exactly as outlined by Obvious Desperate Breakfasts - it is saying "i suspect that you have been unfaithful". It literally says that. If she has not been unfaithful of course it's sh1tty for her. Or it says "there are women who have done this - as you are also a woman I am suspicious of you".

It's not a difficult perspective to understand. Just put yourself in the shoes and consider something similar towards men.

RobbingBandit · 10-01-2019 8:29pm

Poor kids their lives must be turning upside down

suicide_circus · 10-01-2019 8:31pm

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Poor kids their lives must be turning upside down

yep. on the same day they discover their dad isn't their dad and their mam is a heartless bitch

greencap · 10-01-2019 8:34pm

how could you not test though?

id be at the maternity ward, test kit in hand.

push, push, thats it.

alright go stand over there for a minute.

Mirafiori · 10-01-2019 8:34pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Looking at it in a dispassionate, theoretical way, it’s easy to say “What’s the problem?” but think about the ramifications within relationships. Like I said in another post, if my husband wanted to confirm paternity of his child, I would agree to it without hesitation. But let’s not pretend it wouldn’t leave questions hanging in the air. Asking for a paternity test is inextricably questioning the fidelity of the woman in the relationship. If you’ve never been unfaithful, that’s tough to swallow. Your character is being tested and questioned.

In the end, it is children's rights and interests that are likely to prevail in the longer term, not the male or female parent. Perhaps there is enough reason to establish this for the sake of knowing about potential medical risks. If the information is known medically, what are the ethics of withholding it from the presumed father and the actual father?

strandroad · 10-01-2019 8:34pm

Yara Whining Threesome wrote: »

The issue that women have with it is exactly as outlined by Obvious Desperate Breakfasts - it is saying "i suspect that you have been unfaithful". It literally says that. If she has not been unfaithful of course it's sh1tty for her. Or it says "there are women who have done this - as you are also a woman I am suspicious of you".

It's not a difficult perspective to understand. Just put yourself in the shoes and consider something similar towards men.

Yeah imagine having to prove to your wife that you haven't fathered any other babies while with her; it happens quite often after all. Logistics aside, how many men would be happy to do that? And what would you think of the wives who want them to, and their entire relationships?

0cp71eyxkb94qf · 10-01-2019 8:35pm

Yara Whining Threesome wrote: »

There is a tendency by a minority to put words in women's mouths and completely misrepresent us in the latest few threads.

The irony. Most women I know would be agreeable to this as they believe in real fairness and equality. It's perfectly ok when all men get tarred as being potential rapists due to a couple of bad apples but no, a paternity test is completely out of the question.

ceadaoin. · 10-01-2019 8:38pm

Avalyn Scarce Gear wrote: »

The irony. Most women I know would be agreeable to this as they believe in real fairness and equality. It's perfectly ok when all men get tarred as being potential rapists due to a couple of bad apples but no, a paternity test is completely out of the question.

Ok well as I said earlier, should all males submit dna to a database so that when a rape occurs the culprit can be found? With the added bonus of identifying fathers. As someone else said, maybe the dna could be periodicly checked against births to ensure husband's aren't fathering children outside of marriage/relationships. Would you be ok with that since you are ok with all mothers having to prove that they arent deceiving their partners?

I don't see a problem with paternity tests if there are suspicions or probability the partner is not the father. To blanket assume all mothers are deceitful is wrong.

Gimme A Pound · 10-01-2019 8:42pm

Avalyn Scarce Gear wrote: »

The irony. Most women I know would be agreeable to this as they believe in real fairness and equality. It's perfectly ok when all men get tarred as being potential rapists due to a couple of bad apples but no, a paternity test is completely out of the question.

What? No it isn't perfectly ok for all men to be tarred as potential rapists obviously. Where has this been said or even implied by anyone here?

That's the words being put in the mouth that I was talking about. You keep doing it, what's the point?

Nobody would be ok with suspicion towards them for no reason or simply because of their sex. It has nothing to do with fairness or equality.

gctest50 · 10-01-2019 8:48pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Ok well as I said earlier, should all males submit dna to a database so that when a rape occurs the culprit can be found? With the added bonus of identifying fathers. As someone else said, maybe the dna could be periodicly checked against births to ensure husband's aren't fathering children outside of marriage/relationships. Would you be ok with that since you are ok with all mothers having to prove that they arent deceiving their partners?

I don't see a problem with paternity tests if there are suspicions or probability the partner is not the father. To blanket assume all mothers are deceitful is wrong.

That and the other post looks like guilt n panic on behalf of others

eviltwin · 10-01-2019 8:49pm

I really feel for the poor guy, what a terrible thing to find put. I have to wonder though what he was thinking going to the press and making this public. Maybe he thought it was a good way to get back at his ex but it's pretty shabby treatment of the children. They have been just as deceived as he was and they don't need this in the public eye.

0cp71eyxkb94qf · 10-01-2019 8:49pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Ok well as I said earlier, should all males submit dna to a database so that when a rape occurs the culprit can be found? With the added bonus of identifying fathers. As someone else said, maybe the dna could be periodicly checked against births to ensure husband's aren't fathering children outside of marriage Would you be ok with that since you are ok with all mothers having to prove that they arent deceiving their partners?

I don't see a problem with paternity tests if there are suspicions or probability the partner is not the father. To blanket assume all mothers are deceitful is wrong.

Nobody has blanket assumed anything. You don't seem to care that men are getting into these scenarios because they done exactly as you have said, ie, blindly trusting their partner. It's all very well saying you should trust your partner if you love them but in the real world, everything isn't as rosey as that.

If you want to get into the messy territory of emotional blackmail then why shouldn't a man say, well if you love me then you'll allow for a DNA test to be performed to solidify me as a father. See that probably sounds as unthinkable to you as it does to me. Hence why they need to be mandatory to avoid emotional blackmail.

suicide_circus · 10-01-2019 8:51pm

eviltwin wrote: »

I really feel for the poor guy, what a terrible thing to find put. I have to wonder though what he was thinking going to the press and making this public. Maybe he thought it was a good way to get back at his ex but it's pretty shabby treatment of the children. They have been just as deceived as he was and they don't need this in the public eye.

he's probably blinded by rage and in the "they're not my kids anyway" stage. he may regret it later

Gimme A Pound · 10-01-2019 8:52pm

Avalyn Scarce Gear wrote: »

You really love me don't you. Following me around like some love sick puppy.

There is no mistrust of women conspiracy here. What we are dealing with is a serious lack of respect for men who are embarking on parenthood which is a very serious long term commitment both financially and physically. This is certainly not the first case and it will not be the last. Now read what I said again slowly, just to ensure you don't go into another "leave da wimminz alone" meltdown mmmk?

I'm just on the same threads as you - that's not the same as following.

Of course there is mistrust of women implied by this unless the man has good grounds for suspecting it. To be fair it's likely that's the only time it would happen.

But to endorse it being a practice just because she's a woman - how is that ok? It's not, as you demonstrated in your example. Although who with any sanity says all men are potential rapists.

Yeah this woman is a **** - no, other women shouldn't be viewed as potentially like her. This isn't a radical position like.

ceadaoin. · 10-01-2019 8:58pm

Avalyn Scarce Gear wrote: »

Nobody has blanket assumed anything. You don't seem to care that men are getting into these scenarios because they done exactly as you have said, ie, blindly trusting their partner. It's all very well saying you should trust your partner if you love them but in the real world, everything isn't as rosey as that.

If you want to get into the messy territory of emotional blackmail then why shouldn't a man say, well if you love me then you'll allow for a DNA test to be performed to solidify me as a father. See that probably sounds as unthinkable to you as it does to me. Hence why they need to be mandatory to avoid emotional blackmail.

On a practical level how would it even work? What would the cost be be? I'm sure some of the people advocating for this are the same who complain about their taxes going on dole scroungers or single mothers. This wouldn't be cheap and in the vast majority of cases, it's needless.

What is the potential for error, and if there are humans involved there will be errors on that many tests?

If you want to confirm your child is yours, you pay for it. Blanket testing of every child is pointless and leads to further questions re the government having a DNA database of every child.

greencap · 10-01-2019 9:02pm

Having a quick browse on amazon it looks like paternity kits are quite cheap and plentiful.

As far as I know it only requires saliva from the child and the father, so theres no need for anyone to feel offended by any ''suspicion''.

100 euro would easily cover it.

results in 4 days.

99.99% accurate

0cp71eyxkb94qf · 10-01-2019 9:03pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

On a practical level how would it even work? What would the cost be be? I'm sure some of the people advocating for this are the same who complain about their taxes going on dole scroungers or single mothers. This wouldn't be cheap and the vast majority of cases, it's needless.

What is the potential for error, and if there are humans involved there will be errors on that many tests?

There aren't many crimes that happen that often but they still happen. Hence why laws need to be mandatory. Making a general statement about dole scroungers and single mothers is typical again of the debating tactics used by yourself and a certain cohort of people.

There is nothing complicated in a test, just a swab inside the cheek. Also there aren't many errors with paternity tests and a quick Google will give you the info you need on that.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 10-01-2019 9:04pm

Mirafiori wrote: »

In the end, it is children's rights and interests that are likely to prevail in the longer term, not the male or female parent. Perhaps there is enough reason to establish this for the sake of knowing about potential medical risks. If the information is known medically, what are the ethics of withholding it from the presumed father and the actual father?

The actual father should know. I’m just saying that asking for a paternity test in a relationship will throw up unavoidable issues. There’s no getting away from that. Really, the woman has to agree to it because if she has nothing to hide, she doesn’t have to worry. BUT asking for a paternity test is questioning fidelity. The two can’t be separated. If you are a woman who has never been unfaithful, that’s going to be tough to deal with. I think many relationships wouldn’t weather that storm. Even if your partner confirms that he is the father through the test, the question of why he mistrusted you in the first place would be there.

So I understand the need for paternity testing but if it’s not mandatory, then requesting one won’t be plain-sailing no matter what the result. Making it mandatory would be better really, as it would just be part of the whole birthing process and it wouldn’t be a question that originated with the woman’s partner.

Hammer89 · 10-01-2019 9:04pm

Let me get this straight.

She took his money, she had unprotected sex with someone who could potentially be his mate and fathered three of his children, she let him believe this lie for 23 years, she turned two of the three 'sons' against him and now even though he has a terminal illness, she won't tell him who the real father is?

Apparently there's no excuse for hitting a woman though.

ceadaoin. · 10-01-2019 9:07pm

Avalyn Scarce Gear wrote: »

There aren't many crimes that happen that often but they still happen. Hence why laws need to be mandatory. Making a general statement about dole scroungers and single mothers is typical again of the debating tactics used by yourself and a certain cohort of people.

There is nothing complicated in a test, just a swab inside the cheek. Also there aren't many errors with paternity tests and a quick Google will give you the info you need on that.

If the government was responsible for 60,000 of these tests a year be sure there will be errors along the line somewhere.

gctest50 · 10-01-2019 9:08pm

A very basic one will be easy to do once all the medical records are electronic

Scan all the records for blood types n rh , get it to dump all the suspect results for you

If the mother and father are type o and the kid is type b, something is wrong

- the mothers blood type was mis-recorded
- the fathers blood type was mis-recorded
- the childs blood type was misrecorded
- the mother is a cheating whore

greencap · 10-01-2019 9:12pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

If the government was responsible for 60,000 of these tests a year be sure there will be errors along the line somewhere.

So go again.

And a third time if necessary.

By the second test the result will either show an errors be made.

Or confirm to within tiny odds that the first test was correct.

0cp71eyxkb94qf · 10-01-2019 9:14pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

If the government was responsible for 60,000 of these tests a year be sure there will be errors along the line somewhere.

Yeah there will...in 99.99 percent of them.

silverharp · 10-01-2019 9:15pm

Hammer89 wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

She took his money, she had unprotected sex with someone who could potentially be his mate and fathered three of his children, she let him believe this lie for 23 years, she turned two of the three 'sons' against him and now even though he has a terminal illness, she won't tell him who the real father is?

Apparently there's no excuse for hitting a woman though.

i'd go with bill burr on this one, there are plenty of reasons to hit a woman, you just dont do it :pac:

Mrmoe · 10-01-2019 9:15pm

eviltwin wrote: »

I really feel for the poor guy, what a terrible thing to find put. I have to wonder though what he was thinking going to the press and making this public. Maybe he thought it was a good way to get back at his ex but it's pretty shabby treatment of the children. They have been just as deceived as he was and they don't need this in the public eye.

It might be a way to alert the true father who could very well not know that the children are his. We don't know what kind of stories she would have spun for him. He is just as much a victim in all this too potentially.

Dad finds out that none of his kids are biologically his.

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