Post primary return to schools roadmap

wirelessdude01 · 19-09-2020 8:16pm

We are frustrated with various issues in all our schools but reading that statement there is no one clear issue that they are balloting over.

No appetite in primary schools anyway if they are looking for commonality across all the levels.

Hubertj · 19-09-2020 8:21pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

We are frustrated with various issues in all our schools but reading that statement their is no one clear issue that they are balloting over.

No appetite in primary schools anyway if they are looking for commonality across all the levels.

To the general public it seems a very confrontational approach. If there are genuine concerns, I’m sure there are, and they are not being addressed, there should be a press release or statement outlining them, get input from heath professionals etc. Put pressure on through PR.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 19-09-2020 8:36pm

Smacruairi wrote: »

Depends on if all the unions go on together... But they won't because the lectures and principals will want to be seen to be good little workers by the DES. So it'll be asti on their own.. Again.

Most universities are going with blended learning and very few students on campus so they won't be voting for industrial action.

I don't want industrial action at all but the return to school hasn't been very well thought out. I'd vote for a "have another think about full return as the only option"

Even a 4-day week (still a 5-day week for teachers tho) rotating each year group's day off, wud have taken 20% of students off most school corridors and freed up space to thin out some of the rooms that are packed with students.

The lack of creative thinking for the return of schools has been very disappointing.

Smacruairi · 19-09-2020 9:25pm

Hubertj wrote: »

What I don’t understand is this - I listened on radio and saw on tv the marvel is work done by teachers across the country to get schools ready and welcome students back. It was brilliant to see and hear. Then you see the union officials that represent them. It does teachers a disservice. Surely a younger more pragmatic leadership is required?

I agree, but it's like asking why we keep having ff or FG etc. You need to put in serious time pressing flesh and building a base to rise up. Commit to 10 years of arse licking and you'll get there. But if you're that type of person you probably don't care about the real and integral stuff in the first place. Catch 21.

I've no real hunger for a strike, id rather they pushed for equal pay to be honest, but I agree that we need to speak up. The whole debacle around the drogheda school is nonsense. And the categorisation of schools outside of health guidelines basically means they can make us do whatever they like in the future and always have "but the poor children" as their argument.

Bananaleaf · 16-11-2020 11:36pm

Hi everyone

How are we all getting on in school? How is the social distancing going? How is staff morale?

I never thought we'd still be open to be honest, but here we are! I had a really tough day today so I feel like saying that it's all going to sh1t in our place but if I'm honest I'd have to say that the majority are still doing their best. It's getting harder to contain the bold ones, but that's to be expected I guess.

The rooms are in awful condition since becoming base rooms. I walked into what used to be my room today and the tables are drawn on, the wooden strips that go along the sides of the desks have been torn off, the radiators are all written on. I know I shouldn't care, but

Morale pretty low in our place. I feel bad for management. Apparently the number one piece of feedback coming from the Covid inspections is that there isn't appropriate social distancing being done in schools at break and lunch times. Tell us something we don't know :rolleyes:

Honestly, if I didn't have my dog to come home to, I'd be on the news by now!!!! :pac:

Sorry for being such a Ranty McRanterson. 10 days til the Toy Show, 35 days til the sweet, sweet holidays

km79 · 16-11-2020 11:49pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Hi everyone

How are we all getting on in school? How is the social distancing going? How is staff morale?

I never thought we'd still be open to be honest, but here we are! I had a really tough day today so I feel like saying that it's all going to sh1t in our place but if I'm honest I'd have to say that the majority are still doing their best. It's getting harder to contain the bold ones, but that's to be expected I guess.

The rooms are in awful condition since becoming base rooms. I walked into what used to be my room today and the tables are drawn on, the wooden strips that go along the sides of the desks have been torn off, the radiators are all written on. I know I shouldn't care, but

Morale pretty low in our place. I feel bad for management. Apparently the number one piece of feedback coming from the Covid inspections is that there isn't appropriate social distancing being done in schools at break and lunch times. Tell us something we don't know :rolleyes:

Honestly, if I didn't have my dog to come home to, I'd be on the news by now!!!! :pac:

Sorry for being such a Ranty McRanterson. 10 days til the Toy Show, 35 days til the sweet, sweet holidays

I really really hope the Dept acknowledge all the work that has been done to get and keep schools open and tell schools to close for Xmas on Friday 18th instead of having to go back the following week for two pointless days where attendance and morale will be low
I think staff and students need it
Doubt it will happen though

km79 · 17-11-2020 9:54pm

km79 wrote: »

I really really hope the Dept acknowledge all the work that has been done to get and keep schools open and tell schools to close for Xmas on Friday 18th instead of having to go back the following week for two pointless days where attendance and morale will be low
I think staff and students need it
Doubt it will happen though

Oh look there she is
It’s not our intention to extend school Christmas break’ – Norma Foley

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/its-not-our-intention-to-extend-school-christmas-break-norma-foley-39758549.html

Bananaleaf · 17-11-2020 10:31pm

km79 wrote: »

Oh look there she is
It’s not our intention to extend school Christmas break’ – Norma Foley

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/its-not-our-intention-to-extend-school-christmas-break-norma-foley-39758549.html

I find it astounding that she has come out with this. Two school days is what we are talking about. When you consider the amount of school days taken from 'the poor children' when entire schools were closed down to facilitate day-long CPD sessions for the junior cycle. You know the ones, where all you got out of the day was a massive pain in your hole.

Also, just wondering, what are the additional resources that we got to help promote wellbeing in the classroom? I will ask the wellbeing team in my school tomorrow, but curious if anyone knows what she's on about here

khalessi · 17-11-2020 10:33pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I find it astounding that she has come out with this. Two school days is what we are talking about. When you consider the amount of school days taken from 'the poor children' when entire schools were closed down to facilitate day-long CPD sessions for the junior cycle. You know the ones, where all you got out of the day was a massive pain in your hole.

Also, just wondering, what are the additional resources that we got to help promote wellbeing in the classroom? I will ask the wellbeing team in my school tomorrow, but curious if anyone knows what she's on about here

Where are the extra protection measures that were promised during midterm. Has anything changed since before midterm?

wirelessdude01 · 17-11-2020 10:34pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Also, just wondering, what are the additional resources that we got to help promote wellbeing in the classroom? I will ask the wellbeing team in my school tomorrow, but curious if anyone knows what she's on about here

Probably a few videos from the PDST.

Bananaleaf · 17-11-2020 10:37pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Probably a few videos from the PDST.

LOL. That won't load because the wifi is gone. Again. :rolleyes:

km79 · 17-11-2020 10:49pm

khalessi wrote: »

Where are the extra protection measures that were promised during midterm. Has anything changed since before midterm?

Not a thing

byhookorbycrook · 17-11-2020 11:07pm

khalessi wrote: »

Where are the extra protection measures that were promised during midterm. Has anything changed since before midterm?

Bar the DES inspectors (and why not HSE/HSA ones) telling schools off, there have been no changes whatsoever. Oh, I lie, schools must now provide "distance learning" to children who are self isolating. Dust off those spare teachers you keep in the store room to provide this, everyone.

khalessi · 17-11-2020 11:15pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Bar the DES inspectors (and why not HSE/HSA ones) telling schools off, there have been no changes whatsoever. Oh, I lie, schools must now provide "distance learning" to children who are self isolating. Dust off those spare teachers you keep in the store room to provide this, everyone.

Oh I remembered another, the addition of "mitigating circumstances" such as masks access to windows and doors along with sd to decide close contacts

babybuilder · 17-11-2020 11:17pm

Local secondary school closed tomorrow. Potential covid outbreak not confirmed. Donegal.

km79 · 18-11-2020 11:01am

If schools open as planned until dec 22nd
And a child becomes ill on 23/24th
Principals will be contacting tracing Xmas day ?
Families will all fall ill
GPS under pressure

The unions have gone at this all wrong
It’s makes huge sense in terms of suppressing the virus over Xmas
Even going “remote “learning for the two days ........

Bananaleaf · 18-11-2020 11:12am

km79 wrote: »

If schools open as planned until dec 22nd
And a child becomes ill on 23/24th
Principals will be contacting tracing Xmas day ?
Families will all fall ill
GPS under pressure

The unions have gone at this all wrong
It’s makes huge sense in terms of suppressing the virus over Xmas
Even going “remote “learning for the two days ........

But..... there is no Covid in schools km79

:pac:

clunked · 18-11-2020 11:26am

It was embarrassing as a teacher to hear the TUI rep on the radio this morning.

Bananaleaf · 18-11-2020 12:53pm

clunked wrote: »

It was embarrassing as a teacher to hear the TUI rep on the radio this morning.

It was. However, while it makes no difference to me going in those extra two days (I'm managing ok), I am seeing colleagues at their absolute wits end, stressed to the max, who could really benefit from those two days and who will probably end up in a position where they will have to take them, and more.

Senior students are losing it. They are so stressed out and exhausted. Junior students have discovered just how anonymous they really are with the masks and that, coupled with the fact that cabin fever is also (understandably) getting to them now, is making lunchtime supervisions feel like the most humiliating experience of the week - I am so so glad that I didn't sign up for extra.

It's all well and good some teachers texting in to Newstalk this morning saying how the TUI doesn't represent their view and they're delighted to be back in the classroom, but there are colleagues of mine with elderly parents who haven't seen them in a long long time and between the upset of that, the worry around Christmas and the absolute pressure-cooker situation they are going into every day, they are broken. Fair enough if some folk think they are 'jokers' and 'wasters', but anyone who feels that way, please take a moment to consider that some teachers are very very close to breakdown.

In a world where we are so sensitive to all these lives that apparently matter, I wish the Ciara Kelly brigade could see some of what I am seeing on a daily basis. Not everyone is at breaking point and no, the needs of a few probably don't warrant us all getting an extra two days off (what use is an extra two days anyway? You could still be asymptomatic going home to family I ) but all media platforms have a huge amount to answer for when they facilitate teacher bashing to this level. The phrase is a parody of itself at this stage but for God's sake, teachers are people too.

TheValeyard · 18-11-2020 1:08pm

clunked wrote: »

It was embarrassing as a teacher to hear the TUI rep on the radio this morning.

He was utterly destroyed by Ciara Kelly. It was horrific to listen too.

clunked · 18-11-2020 1:33pm

My worry is that you have to pick battles with a hint of intelligence because it will be too easy for the knee jerk brigade to dismiss legitimate grievances. It arguably shows the TUI as incompetent.

km79 · 18-11-2020 2:38pm

The most sensible solution is to agree that teaching and learning on those days takes place remotely if people are going to get so bent out of shape at closing a day and a half early

I wonder how some of them will feel when a child develops symptoms Xmas Eve or is identified as a close contact (that won’t happen anyway!)

km79 · 18-11-2020 2:41pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

It was. However, while it makes no difference to me going in those extra two days (I'm managing ok), I am seeing colleagues at their absolute wits end, stressed to the max, who could really benefit from those two days and who will probably end up in a position where they will have to take them, and more.

Senior students are losing it. They are so stressed out and exhausted. Junior students have discovered just how anonymous they really are with the masks and that, coupled with the fact that cabin fever is also (understandably) getting to them now, is making lunchtime supervisions feel like the most humiliating experience of the week - I am so so glad that I didn't sign up for extra.

It's all well and good some teachers texting in to Newstalk this morning saying how the TUI doesn't represent their view and they're delighted to be back in the classroom, but there are colleagues of mine with elderly parents who haven't seen them in a long long time and between the upset of that, the worry around Christmas and the absolute pressure-cooker situation they are going into every day, they are broken. Fair enough if some folk think they are 'jokers' and 'wasters', but anyone who feels that way, please take a moment to consider that some teachers are very very close to breakdown.

In a world where we are so sensitive to all these lives that apparently matter, I wish the Ciara Kelly brigade could see some of what I am seeing on a daily basis. Not everyone is at breaking point and no, the needs of a few probably don't warrant us all getting an extra two days off (what use is an extra two days anyway? You could still be asymptomatic going home to family I ) but all media platforms have a huge amount to answer for when they facilitate teacher bashing to this level. The phrase is a parody of itself at this stage but for God's sake, teachers are people too.

In terms of symptoms and contact tracing though it would be 4 days not 2
That’s a huge difference leading into holidays
As it stands there will be principals all over the country contact tracing with the HSE on Xmas day

Alex86Eire · 18-11-2020 3:08pm

km79 wrote: »

The most sensible solution is to agree that teaching and learning on those days takes place remotely if people are going to get so bent out of shape at closing a day and a half early

Would many schools be teaching during the last days anyway?

clunked · 18-11-2020 3:36pm

I hope the former ASTI members who jumped ship to the TUI for their 30 pieces of silver are suitably embarrassed at themselves. But probably not...

khalessi · 18-11-2020 3:38pm

Were any TUI teachers asked about this or did the TUI just go off on a whim?

deiseindublin · 18-11-2020 4:45pm

km79 wrote: »

As it stands there will be principals all over the country contact tracing with the HSE on Xmas day

In fairness, Principals should turn off their phones on the 22nd. They're on holidays, and there's no CV in schools anyway.

babybuilder · 18-11-2020 4:51pm

TUI have lost it. While carrying out the whims of the Department and NCCA to the letter of the law now they go and make an ass of themselves.

The only way a early Xmas break would work would be if there was a total lockdown or circuit breaker similar to the one in spring. Rigourously enforced. They'd be better off carrying out inspections in schools re-covid than what they proposed this morning.

Bananaleaf · 18-11-2020 5:18pm

km79 wrote: »

In terms of symptoms and contact tracing though it would be 4 days not 2
That’s a huge difference leading into holidays
As it stands there will be principals all over the country contact tracing with the HSE on Xmas day

Well now, I hadn't even thought of that.

Why the hell didn't the TUI make that point instead of what they did come out and say. Honestly, are they on the same planet as the rest of us in that place? Why are we paying them????

Bananaleaf · 18-11-2020 5:20pm

khalessi wrote: »

Were any TUI teachers asked about this or did the TUI just go off on a whim?

None were asked. And when I say none, I mean none.

It was really cringy this morning on Newstalk. Ciara Kelly asked the TUI rep if they had asked teachers and he said no. To clarify she asked him if they had just come up with this themselves and he responded that yes, they had just come up with it themselves. :eek:

amacca · 18-11-2020 6:41pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

None were asked. And when I say none, I mean none.

It was really cringy this morning on Newstalk. Ciara Kelly asked the TUI rep if they had asked teachers and he said no. To clarify she asked him if they had just come up with this themselves and he responded that yes, they had just come up with it themselves. :eek:

WTF.....seriously.

If you are going on the national airwaves you should be a least moderately competent........have justifications/counterpoints

Anyone that gets handed their ass by the likes of a Ciara Kelly needs to consider if perhaps they are in the wrong line of work......she's not exactly the sharpest tool in the box...were talking mostly populist rabble rousing here.

do these union guys get media training or any prep on how to make a coherent point and actually put across a reasonable justification/argument

or even training on how to strategise/pick your battles etc

its hardly some machiavellian masterplan to look completely incompetent on radio to have the general public sympathising with the ordinary members for having such incompetent representatives is it:D

History Queen · 18-11-2020 10:20pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

None were asked. And when I say none, I mean none.

It was really cringy this morning on Newstalk. Ciara Kelly asked the TUI rep if they had asked teachers and he said no. To clarify she asked him if they had just come up with this themselves and he responded that yes, they had just come up with it themselves. :eek:

Oh jaysus that sounds awful. Who from TUI was it? I know I could listen to the podcast but for the sake of my blood pressure I try to avoid hearing Ciara Kelly's voice.

r93kaey5p2izun · 18-11-2020 10:38pm

Why is everyone focusing on TUI? Ann Piggott from ASTI made a statement about it early yesterday, before TUI.

History Queen · 18-11-2020 10:44pm

Ophelia Modern Firehouse wrote: »

Why is everyone focusing on TUI? Ann Piggott from ASTI made a statement about it early yesterday, before TUI.

I think Aodhan O Riordan was advocating for it also. From what I've seen on social media it seems the TUI rep did a poor job of selling it as anything other than teachers looking for longer holidays, thus opening the gates to teacher bashing and providing them with further "proof" of our inate laziness and selfishness.

^i haven't heard it myself but that's the social media reaction

r93kaey5p2izun · 18-11-2020 10:53pm

History Queen wrote: »

I think Aodhan O Riordan was advocating for it also. From what I've seen on social media it seems the TUI rep did a poor job of selling it as anything other than teachers looking for longer holidays, thus opening the gates to teacher bashing and providing them with further "proof" of our inate laziness and selfishness.

^i haven't heard it myself but that's the social media reaction

Yeah, I understand the criticism of his performance but not the implication that it is something only the TUI are proposing - ASTI got there first.

Smacruairi · 18-11-2020 11:57pm

Ophelia Modern Firehouse wrote: »

Yeah, I understand the criticism of his performance but not the implication that it is something only the TUI are proposing - ASTI got there first.

Where, genuinely curious, I didn't hear asti asking for it at all other than apparently the president commenting on a radio show.

clunked · 19-11-2020 1:05pm

Dosen't matter. Not the battle to be fighting now and the TUI looked foolish

km79 · 19-11-2020 2:25pm

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/government-issues-no-homework-day-for-all-children-in-ireland-39765585.html

She is wasted as Minister
She should join the JCT with brainwaves like this
So out of touch with reality it’s frightening

“She is a teacher it will be grand “
It’s going well alright

wirelessdude01 · 19-11-2020 2:30pm

km79 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/government-issues-no-homework-day-for-all-children-in-ireland-39765585.html

She is wasted as Minsiter
She should join the JCT with brainwaves like this
So out of touch with reality it’s frightening

“She is a teacher it will be grand “
It’s going well alright

What populist bu!!****.

mirrorwall14 · 19-11-2020 2:32pm

I’m sorry what? She knows that a load of primary schools did no homework for a period of time already? And that we can not give homework at any time? What the actual....

Bananaleaf · 19-11-2020 2:33pm

km79 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/government-issues-no-homework-day-for-all-children-in-ireland-39765585.html

She is wasted as Minsiter
She should join the JCT with brainwaves like this
So out of touch with reality it’s frightening

“She is a teacher it will be grand “
It’s going well alright

Oh my God. Oh. My. God. Isn't well for her that she has the time to come up with this sh1t. LOL.

RealJohn · 19-11-2020 2:33pm

km79 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/government-issues-no-homework-day-for-all-children-in-ireland-39765585.html

She is wasted as Minsiter
She should join the JCT with brainwaves like this
So out of touch with reality it’s frightening

“She is a teacher it will be grand “
It’s going well alright

What absolute nonsense. Who thought this was sensible? And before some passer by steps in for a kick, I don’t care about them having a day off homework. It’s that the government is now interfering directly in how every teacher runs their class. Absolute joke.

mirrorwall14 · 19-11-2020 2:34pm

RealJohn wrote: »

What absolute nonsense. Who thought this was sensible? And before some passer by steps in for a kick, I don’t care about them having a day off homework. It’s that the government is now interfering directly in how every teacher runs their class. Absolute joke.

Like she knows we can give no homework when ever we want?!! ðŸ˜‚

Bananaleaf · 19-11-2020 2:35pm

Hey Norma, I never give homework anyway, so can I get a voucher for something else instead?

Polka_Dot · 19-11-2020 2:46pm

"In an interview with Seamus the Dog, Ms Foley says: It’s a golden ticket and this is how it’s going to work."

Is this Waterford Whispers?

scrubs33 · 19-11-2020 2:46pm

In an interview with Seamus the dog...oh my good sweet Jesus..

wirelessdude01 · 19-11-2020 2:49pm

Wonder how much the adviser was paid to come up this because Norma sure as he'll didn't come up with it herself.

itrip · 20-11-2020 1:05am

amacca wrote: »

WTF.....seriously.

If you are going on the national airwaves you should be a least moderately competent........have justifications/counterpoints

Anyone that gets handed their ass by the likes of a Ciara Kelly needs to consider if perhaps they are in the wrong line of work......she's not exactly the sharpest tool in the box...were talking mostly populist rabble rousing here.

do these union guys get media training or any prep on how to make a coherent point and actually put across a reasonable justification/argument

or even training on how to strategise/pick your battles etc

its hardly some machiavellian masterplan to look completely incompetent on radio to have the general public sympathising with the ordinary members for having such incompetent representatives is it:D

In comparison to the nursing unions reps who are always well versed, coherent and well able to deal with the media, our teachers union reps always come across as ill prepared and rarely have facts to back up statements.
Having 2 unions at second level really is a gift to govt...is it time for one all inclusive second level union..

Bananaleaf · 13-12-2020 11:45pm

7 more teaching days from tomorrow!!

Any student or staff member deemed a close contact from tomorrow onwards will be self isolating on Christmas day

Stay especially safe this week everyone

Bananaleaf · 18-12-2020 1:26pm

Anyone finishing up today? We are here until close of business Tuesday

Post primary return to schools roadmap

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