General Rugby Discussion II

Buer · 14-12-2018 10:09am

I suppose the only thing is that they won't be able to get all of these guys on the pitch at the same time. Whitelock, NMS, Fekitoa, Savea, Messam and Isa....only two of them will be permitted.

I know there were talks of Fekitoa going back south but, as far as I know, the others will be there next year (if Whitelock is confirmed).

Bazzo · 14-12-2018 10:34am

Buer wrote: »

I suppose the only thing is that they won't be able to get all of these guys on the pitch at the same time. Whitelock, NMS, Fekitoa, Savea, Messam and Isa....only two of them will be permitted.

I know there were talks of Fekitoa going back south but, as far as I know, the others will be there next year (if Whitelock is confirmed).

As in kolpak? Isn't that assuming none of them are entitled to other passports?

Buer · 14-12-2018 10:41am

Bazzo wrote: »

As in kolpak? Isn't that assuming none of them are entitled to other passports?

It is. And Fekitoa actually is born outside of NZ, forgot about him. All the others are born in NZ/Argentina though...not entirely sure on their passport situations.

troyzer · 14-12-2018 10:44am

It has nothing to do with Kolpak. The FFR require teams to have over half of their team made up by French players.

They're not limited to only two foreigners.

Buer · 14-12-2018 10:50am

troyzer wrote: »

It has nothing to do with Kolpak. The FFR require teams to have over half of their team made up by French players.

They're not limited to only two foreigners.

I'm referencing European rugby and yes, 2 foreign players is the rule for them in European competition the same as it is for the provinces.

troyzer · 14-12-2018 10:57am

Buer wrote: »

I'm referencing European rugby and yes, 2 foreign players is the rule for them in European competition the same as it is for the provinces.

In Europe, yeah. But most French teams don't care about Europe.

Buer · 14-12-2018 11:38am

troyzer wrote: »

In Europe, yeah. But most French teams don't care about Europe.

Right....we're talking about a specific team though and their signings?

troyzer · 14-12-2018 11:50am

Buer wrote: »

Right....we're talking about a specific team though and their signings?

They're hardly the only French team which splash out on multiple foreign players.

stephen_n · 14-12-2018 11:53am

troyzer wrote: »

They're hardly the only French team which splash out on multiple foreign players.

Yes but you can’t say Toulon don’t care about Europe

Buer · 14-12-2018 11:54am

troyzer wrote: »

They're hardly the only French team which splash out on multiple foreign players.

But we're not talking about other teams....we've solely been discussing Toulon and the signings they've made?! We've been even listing the specific players. :rolleyes:

I'm out.

troyzer · 14-12-2018 11:59am

Buer wrote: »

But we're not talking about other teams....we've solely been discussing Toulon and the signings they've made?! We've been even listing the specific players. :rolleyes:

I'm out.

You're trying to make the argument that this doesn't make sense for Toulon because they won't be able to play a lot of these players in Europe due to the Kolpak rule.

What I'm trying to say is that most French teams don't care about Europe and most French teams also sign loads of foreigners. So even if it doesn't make sense from an Irish perspective, Toulon aren't doing anything out of the ordinary for French rugby other than the sheer amount of money they're spending.

Buer · 14-12-2018 12:04pm

troyzer wrote: »

You're trying to make the argument that this doesn't make sense for Toulon because they won't be able to play a lot of these players in Europe due to the Kolpak rule..

No I'm not and never said anything remotely like that.

troyzer · 14-12-2018 12:06pm

Buer wrote: »

No I'm not and never said anything remotely like that.

Alright well you did point out that they wouldn't be able to get them all on the pitch at the same time.

Which is true in Europe anyway but I'm not sure they particularly care. I mean, obviously they don't or they wouldn't have put themselves in that situation. It's clear that the French in general don't really care that much about Europe, or else they wouldn't be splashing out on squads they can't field in Europe at full strength.

Yeah_Right · 14-12-2018 2:53pm

Fekitoa is going to Wasps isn't he? Whitelock isn't leaving NZ. He's taking over the captaincy after Read leaves. At least that's what I read somewhere. Savea would be in the same situation as Nacewa and Tomane. He would be eligible for a Samoan passport even though he was born in NZ so he won't be affected by Kolpak restrictions.

Buer · 14-12-2018 3:02pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Fekitoa is going to Wasps isn't he? Whitelock isn't leaving NZ. He's taking over the captaincy after Read leaves. At least that's what I read somewhere. Savea would be in the same situation as Nacewa and Tomane. He would be eligible for a Samoan passport even though he was born in NZ so he won't be affected by Kolpak restrictions.

It's depressing that Whitelock has only just turned 30. Himself and Retallick potentially have another two RWCs as the top pairing in the world.

Squidgy Black · 14-12-2018 3:17pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Whitelock isn't leaving NZ. He's taking over the captaincy after Read leaves. At least that's what I read somewhere.

I don't know, 2 days ago there was a million articles across French media and a few in NZ saying that Whitelock to Toulon was nearly a done deal.

Dubinusa · 14-12-2018 3:37pm

That's the crux of the problem with French rugby. Tons of great foreign imports and limited prospects for actual French men to compete and improve.
I firmly believe that all of these signings hamper development in France.
Toulon do care about Europe. They won 3 in a row iirc.
Yet, they barely beat a Leinster side in the semis a few years back. That Leinster team was not a great side and still a wayward pass cost us.
I guess the bigger the stars, the more cashflow for the owners as attendance must be very good.
Even, would have fit an Ulster Jersey just fine!

Yeah_Right · 14-12-2018 3:55pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I don't know, 2 days ago there was a million articles across French media and a few in NZ saying that Whitelock to Toulon was nearly a done deal.

Did it specify which Whitelock? There are four of them. But I think only 2 are still playing.

Squidgy Black · 14-12-2018 3:59pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Did it specify which Whitelock? There are four of them. But I think only 2 are still playing.

Sam. The good one.

Buer · 15-12-2018 10:00am

Apparently Jackson is now bound for London Irish and not Lyon. Makes sense given Kiss is there.

Sirius Boner · 15-12-2018 10:47am

Buer wrote: »

Apparently Jackson is now bound for London Irish and not Lyon. Makes sense given Kiss is there.

Makes no sense, can't see it happening what with the recent media interest again... going to LI would make him a target

Paul Smeenus · 15-12-2018 1:43pm

Sirius Boner wrote: »

Makes no sense, can't see it happening what with the recent media interest again... going to LI would make him a target

I don't think the English give a fiddlers any more.

Dog Botherer · 15-12-2018 3:52pm

Sirius Boner wrote: »

Makes no sense, can't see it happening what with the recent media interest again... going to LI would make him a target

I think the pressure on London Irish to stay up will outweigh any media pressure. International standard 10's at a low price and with open availability are like hen's teeth.

Bazzo · 15-12-2018 4:21pm

Dog Botherer wrote: »

I think the pressure on London Irish to stay up will outweigh any media pressure. International standard 10's at a low price and with open availability are like hen's teeth.

Not sure how well he has been going. Apparently he was booed off the pitch by Perpignan fans at the Connacht match yesterday when he was subbed.

Dog Botherer · 15-12-2018 4:26pm

Bazzo wrote: »

Not sure how well he has been going. Apparently he was booed off the pitch by Perpignan fans at the Connacht match yesterday when he was subbed.

Even if he's not in form he's a far better 10 than most newly promoted clubs could hope to sign.

Interesting that the two most recent promoted English teams will have Irish 10's. Exeter did too. Fly-half is a huge position of weakness in England. So much dross.

troyzer · 28-12-2018 12:31am

Just reading the Mike Ross book now.

Excellent read so far.

BonnieSituation · 28-12-2018 1:04am

troyzer wrote: »

Just reading the Mike Ross book now.

Excellent read so far.

He had some nice interviews across the autumn. Really enjoyed listening to him.

FrancieBrady · 28-12-2018 1:17am

Good selection from a great year here.
https://www.the42.ie/2018-best-tries-ireland-munster-leinster-connacht-4386889-Dec2018/?utm_source=facebook_short&fbclid=IwAR27hWoBOmhkSyblQ95gn80dlaaR6oajl3yMD4Q2AdFHr9GCAdMWj2qZeH8

thomond2006 · 03-01-2019 11:49am

Irish Rugby legend Leonardo Sarto has signed for Leicester Tigers!

DGRulz · 03-01-2019 12:46pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Irish Rugby legend Leonardo Sarto has signed for Leicester Tigers!

Leicester seem to really like their Italians, was it not them that raided Benetton a few years back?

Dog Botherer · 03-01-2019 3:58pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Irish Rugby legend Leonardo Sarto has signed for Leicester Tigers!

Yet another exciting back that can enjoy being paid stupid money to score exactly 0 tries as his pack crumbles faster than Michael Cohen under questioning!

Leicester are ****ed.

errlloyd · 03-01-2019 4:03pm

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Yet another exciting back that can enjoy being paid stupid money to score exactly 0 tries as his pack crumbles faster than Michael Cohen under questioning!

Leicester are ****ed.

They're probably paying him crap, I think he was without a club up till now.

Dog Botherer · 03-01-2019 4:04pm

errlloyd wrote: »

They're probably paying him crap, I think he was without a club up till now.

If it was any other club I'd agree, but Leicester love throwing money at backs to the detriment of the rest of their squad.

Burkie1203 · 03-01-2019 11:02pm

Welsh rugby makes dream team look believable

https://twitter.com/PontypoolRFC/status/1080850424255733760?s=19

troyzer · 03-01-2019 11:24pm

DGRulz wrote: »

thomond2006 wrote: »

Irish Rugby legend Leonardo Sarto has signed for Leicester Tigers!

Leicester seem to really like their Italians, was it not them that raided Benetton a few years back?

Leicester tried to set up an academy in Dublin a few years ago thinking they could nab some of the school's talent.

They've always been ones for seeking talent abroad and developing it in Leicester. Which, to be honest, is better than just shelling out **** loads of cash on mercenaries like Toulon.

irishbucsfan · 05-01-2019 4:58pm

Caron Hayman has been suspended by Pau after getting into a row with players

mfceiling · 05-01-2019 5:12pm

Dog Botherer wrote: »

If it was any other club I'd agree, but Leicester love throwing money at backs to the detriment of the rest of their squad.

*Ulster waves*

Dog Botherer · 05-01-2019 10:12pm

mfceiling wrote: »

*Ulster waves*

*Marty Moore waves back* :pac:

bilston · 06-01-2019 5:02pm

Some chat in the Mail on Sunday that the Premiership clubs are considering breaking from the RFU.

There may be trouble ahead...but then the minute CVC got involved it was inevitable.

06-01-2019 5:07pm

bilston wrote: »

Some chat in the Mail on Sunday that the Premiership clubs are considering breaking from the RFU.

There may be trouble ahead...but then the minute CVC got involved it was inevitable.

This is the start of the next new Heineken Cup.

irishbucsfan · 06-01-2019 5:23pm

bilston wrote: »

Some chat in the Mail on Sunday that the Premiership clubs are considering breaking from the RFU.

There may be trouble ahead...but then the minute CVC got involved it was inevitable.

Nah there’s no chance of that happening. Just posturing.

The English clubs aren’t going to turn their backs on European rugby and the English players aren’t going to turn their backs on international rugby, which is where they make the majority of their money respectively.

Dubinusa · 06-01-2019 6:52pm

It's surprising that the rfu allowed this to happen.
They should have maintained a stake in each team. It seems like they have no control whatsoever.

LeinsterDub · 06-01-2019 7:08pm

Dubinusa wrote: »

It's surprising that the rfu allowed this to happen.
They should have maintained a stake in each team. It seems like they have no control whatsoever.

They never had a stake in each team which to maintain

The Lost Sheep · 06-01-2019 7:49pm

Dubinusa wrote: »

It's surprising that the rfu allowed this to happen.
They should have maintained a stake in each team. It seems like they have no control whatsoever.

They never had a stake in each side in the first place. Its 12 teams how many million would that have cost the RFU?

troyzer · 06-01-2019 7:54pm

The RFU and the clubs are completely seperate and always have been.

The only real relationship they have is that the RFU pays the clubs to release players during the international windows and also provides grants on the condition that they play X amount of English eligible players in their squads.

awec · 06-01-2019 7:59pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nah there’s no chance of that happening. Just posturing.

The English clubs aren’t going to turn their backs on European rugby and the English players aren’t going to turn their backs on international rugby, which is where they make the majority of their money respectively.

If the Premiership clubs break away the RFU would still have to select their players. Who else are they going to pick?

I bet they'd be let in to European rugby tournaments as well. Again, who would take their place?

Podge_irl · 06-01-2019 8:11pm

awec wrote: »

If the Premiership clubs break away the RFU would still have to select their players. Who else are they going to pick?

I bet they'd be let in to European rugby tournaments as well. Again, who would take their place?

Well the clubs can't break away in the sense that any tournament they set up needs RFU approval. If they do not get it then anyone playing in the tournament will be ineligible for international rugby. It is the single biggest chip the RFU have to play and I can't see them letting it go. A breakaway is a non-starter without tacit RFU support (thus not really making it a breakaway in the classic sense).

irishbucsfan · 06-01-2019 8:24pm

awec wrote: »

If the Premiership clubs break away the RFU would still have to select their players. Who else are they going to pick?

I bet they'd be let in to European rugby tournaments as well. Again, who would take their place?

They won't be allowed to play international rugby unless they're playing regularly in World Rugby approved tournaments. The only way any team can play in a World Rugby approved tournament in the country of England is if they are given express permission by the RFU. Similarly, the only way a club can play in European rugby is if they are playing in a world rugby endorsed tournament.

The RFU's funding makes up a huge chunk of Premiership clubs' income. Another huge chunk of it comes from EPCR TV money. There are other clubs that money can go to and players and coaches can sign for those clubs, as messy as it would be (so messy that it'll never happen).

irishbucsfan · 06-01-2019 8:24pm

troyzer wrote: »

The RFU and the clubs are completely seperate and always have been.

They are not completely separate. The LTA joins them very closely.

thebaz · 06-01-2019 9:05pm

Paul Kimmage having another go at rugby in the Indo - I'm all for making rugby safer , but has he ever anything positive to say about the game - rugby does help people stay fit, avoid things like smoking and to have a healthy diet - most things in life have some danger , but it seams relentless negative from him - was Kimmage himself not a drug cheat ?

General Rugby Discussion II

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