Learn to filter!

zubair · 03-04-2017 12:02pm #1

Maybe its fair weather bikers but why do some people think it's ok to ride in the hard shoulder, you have as much right to do that as a car. Bus lanes, that's a different story, but it's never ok to ride in the hard shoulder. There was stopped traffic on the N7 this morning for miles and one rider was in the hard shoulder the entire way. He obviously knows it's illegal as when he spotted the guards he was back to normal filtering and then back into the hard shoulder again. When the speed picked up he was still undertaking traffic at the speed limit in the hard shoulder. Learn to filter FFS! A puncture is the best thing you can get from doing this

bladespin · 03-04-2017 12:08pm

TBH I could definitely be described as fair weather (these days anyway) but I've always tried to stay out of the hard shoulder, undertaking there is a recipe for a bad day IMO.

zubair · 03-04-2017 12:10pm

bladespin wrote: »

TBH I could definitely be described as fair weather (these days anyway) but I've always tried to stay out of the hard shoulder, undertaking there is a recipe for a bad day IMO.

Maybe fair weather was too broad. I did not mean to offend any fair weather bikers in this post

Cienciano · 03-04-2017 12:37pm

It's illegal, but it's probably safer than filtering sometimes. But as you say, good chance of a puncture

bladespin · 03-04-2017 12:47pm

Cienciano wrote: »

It's illegal, but it's probably saferthan filtering sometimes. But as you say, good chance of a puncture

I wouldn't think so, knowing how observant 4 wheelers can be, how many times have you seen one just swerve into the HS to stop, next exit, etc etc.

03-04-2017 12:50pm

Have seen a fella on the N7 filtering between cars and the central median.
what a nutjob

GerryDerpy · 03-04-2017 1:00pm

I find it safer myself. If a driver is the non-observant type then they will swerve into you no matter if you are in the hard shoulder or not.

Have never got a puncture either, I'm very observant of nails, glass etc.

Have been pulled in by gardai once and got told off but no other action.

Lumen · 03-04-2017 2:04pm

crv wrote: »

Being in cycle lanes is illegal

No, being in mandatory cycle lanes (i.e. solid line) is illegal. I think.

More generally...

This section of the northbound N11 is frequently jammers in the morning and the lanes are narrow enough to make filtering very difficult:

https://goo.gl/maps/jUG1iW3bzSx

...so lots of motorcyclists use the hatched area (is it still called hard shoulder).

I'm not really sure how I feel about that.

zubair · 03-04-2017 2:06pm

crv wrote: »

Being in cycle lanes is illegal but safer as they are empty most of the time and drivers tend not to go into them as much. I prefer to use common sense than laws created by someone who does not ride a motorbike.

No offense but this is completely wrong, you'll get ****ed up in the cycle lane. While I'll occupy a cycle lane for a moment if necessary this isn't a place for motorbikes or scooters who are going far faster than any bicycles and will find trouble much sooner, you're also more likely to encounter cyclists and pedestrians in there. You have no escape in there.

Back to the hard shoulder topic, it's obviously illegal and i find the fact that they were driving there frustrating as a fellow biker, no doubt we'd all be complaining if a car did it. Bikes already have a great advantage of being able to filter and you should use that, if you don't think its safe to filter then wait in your lane until it is safe to do so. I should clarify that after miles of this and the traffic was on the move again they continued to undertake the traffic in the hs when it was going 100kph+.

frozenfrozen · 03-04-2017 2:16pm

crv wrote: »

What is safer? Going in the opposite direction traffic coming straight towards your or an empty hard shoulder? The situation you explained by drivers turning into hard shoulder happens in the city all the time, example would be 2 lanes, 1 is turn right and the other go straight, you would get drivers mistakenly in the wrong lane go back to the other one without looking happens all the time. How many drivers you have seen pull in the hard shoulder and stop? I am saying that it is much more likely to happen on a straight road than on the hard shoulder, therefore making the hard shoulder safer. The only difference is that it usually has loads of ****e on it. Being in cycle lanes is illegal but safer as they are empty most of the time and drivers tend not to go into them as much. I prefer to use common sense than laws created by someone who does not ride a motorbike.

hows that working out for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9IEgyBUUL4

bladespin · 03-04-2017 2:18pm

frozenfrozen wrote: »

hows that working out for you

Squeaky bum moment :eek:

crv · 03-04-2017 3:40pm

Lumen wrote: »

No, being in mandatory cycle lanes (i.e. solid line) is illegal. I think.

More generally...

This section of the northbound N11 is frequently jammers in the morning and the lanes are narrow enough to make filtering very difficult:

https://goo.gl/maps/jUG1iW3bzSx

...so lots of motorcyclists use the hatched area (is it still called hard shoulder).

I'm not really sure how I feel about that.

That's what I meant, sorry for no clarification.

crv · 03-04-2017 3:45pm

frozenfrozen wrote: »

hows that working out for you

The quality is not that great due to youtube, but the speed limit in that part of the road is 80 km/h. I did not break any laws, if you notice I barely go over 80, the only thing that I did illegal was go into the bus lane. In that situation I should have waited for the car to turn right then proceeded? Because for some reason it is my fault that the driver does not seem me.

frozenfrozen · 03-04-2017 4:17pm

I don't care what you do just posting you nearly in a really common accident from undertaking after you were trying to give your opinion about how nobody would really ever merge in on top of you, it happens as quickly as it did in that video.

BTW you don't do any life savers and you cross continuous white lines as well as staying in an auxiliary lane while it changes to a bus lane while undertaking and filtering fairly haphazardly so do whatever you want but just be aware that you're not riding safely

Doesn't matter whose fault it is if you get injured.

So do whatever you want but maybe refrain from giving riding tips and leave it to proper instructors

crv · 03-04-2017 4:55pm

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I don't care what you do just posting you nearly in a really common accident from undertaking after you were trying to give your opinion about how nobody would really ever merge in on top of you, it happens as quickly as it did in that video.

BTW you don't do any life savers and you cross continuous white lines as well as staying in an auxiliary lane while it changes to a bus lane while undertaking and filtering fairly haphazardly so do whatever you want but just be aware that you're not riding safely

Doesn't matter whose fault it is if you get injured.

So do whatever you want but maybe refrain from giving riding tips and leave it to proper instructors

Yeah I guess you're right, I was a bit stupid there. I will delete my posts. I am still on a provisional licence as you can see so I don't have that much experience but I am getting better every week. I shouldn't say anything when you all have your licenses for years and I have mine for 4 months.

Lumen · 03-04-2017 5:00pm

crv wrote: »

Yeah I guess you're right, I was a bit stupid there. I will delete my posts. I am still on a provisional licence as you can see so I don't have that much experience but I am getting better every week. I shouldn't say anything when you all have your licenses for years and I have mine for 4 months.

I spent an evening watching Youtube crash videos after feeling a bit cocky catching my first slide off a roundabout.

"youtube lane splitting crash" is a good search term.

I wouldn't bother deleting your posts. This isn't your CV!

frozenfrozen · 03-04-2017 5:13pm

crv don't feel bad or anything, all anyone on here wants would be for everyone to enjoy their bikes however they like and not get hurt so don't worry about it and keep getting better

the one thing i'd say is to just think over mistakes you make after each ride and try to think what you should have done and try not to make the same mistake twice.

so don't worry about what you posted

zubair · 03-04-2017 6:42pm

As per the lads, no need to apologise or delete your post, forums are about discussions and opinions, they'd be boring if we all agreed.

As you are only learning it's great for you to be involved in the forum and even better that you have an open mind to take on board the guys feedback. We all had to learn, it's just always best that its not the hard way.

I'm not saying I never undertake, drive in bus lanes, cross a solid white line (although i don't cross the yellow ones as discussed

), I never know what speed i'm doing but it's almost always faster than everything around me; however, i am always watching, looking, checking, preparing and planning which is the most important thing IMO. If you cant see or be seen you're going to have problems and this means you have to be very careful when in the hs, cycle lane or lane 1 where visibility is at its worst so it's best not to be there.

st1979 · 04-04-2017 7:20am

Glad this thread was started as I was meaning to start similar. I am only 15mts on the road full licence but total fair weather rider. Plus I rarely ride in bad traffic. Had to come down n11 at rush hour around bray exit one evening. I watched other bikes use hard shoulder and generally fly along so wondered if I was wrong. When both lanes stopped I would slowly ride between the 2 lanes of cars until the started to move again. Was I filtering or lane splitting

Max Headroom · 04-04-2017 8:44am

If we were to do things by the book or as per instruction we may as well just buy a car...Where has all the common sense gone these days...people looking for reasons or excuses to blame someone else seems to be the order of the day...do what you feel comfortable doing..i've seen guys sitting in traffic behind cars..its their thing..:)

GBX · 04-04-2017 8:50am

Max Headroom wrote: »

If we were to do things by the book or as per instruction we may as well just buy a car...Where has all the common sense gone these days...people looking for reasons or excuses to blame someone else seems to be the order of the day...do what you feel comfortable doing..i've seen guys sitting in traffic behind cars..its their thing..:)

Thats it, theres some days for me its easier to filter and move up and others I just sit there because of the amount of cyclists already at the top etc

listermint · 04-04-2017 10:02am

If you can't manage to have the ability to filter through normal lanes then i suggest you stop commuting until you get adequate training to do so.

It's a basic skill for manuevour and most importantly observation.

Lashing up the hard shoulder gives you neither and is dangerous illegal and gives you no additional skill points.

Go get some training and get comfortable with the bike.

Cienciano · 04-04-2017 12:00pm

st1979 wrote: »

Glad this thread was started as I was meaning to start similar. I am only 15mts on the road full licence but total fair weather rider. Plus I rarely ride in bad traffic. Had to come down n11 at rush hour around bray exit one evening. I watched other bikes use hard shoulder and generally fly along so wondered if I was wrong. When both lanes stopped I would slowly ride between the 2 lanes of cars until the started to move again. Was I filtering or lane splitting

You're doing the right thing. Whatever method you use, do not do it fast, cars will change lanes or move into the hard shoulder, so you will have to prepare to stop.

listermint wrote: »

If you can't manage to have the ability to filter through normal lanes then i suggest you stop commuting until you get adequate training to do so.

It's a basic skill for manuevour and most importantly observation.

Lashing up the hard shoulder gives you neither and is dangerous illegal and gives you no additional skill points.

Go get some training and get comfortable with the bike.

I don't agree. I was in traffic the other day on the M50 and bikes were filtering between lanes. I didn't feel comfortable doing it because you had so little room each side and cars will change lane with minimal observation. I'm not going to stop commuting till I get training filter! What are these "skill points" you talk of

There's plenty of moves that are "illegal" on a bike but if we feel safe doing it, we'll do it. I wouldn't be drawing a line on whats legal to do or not. Obviously you don't get much sympathy if you come off while doing something illegal, and some people will draw the line further than others.

Wonda-Boy · 04-04-2017 12:22pm

FFS...

Just do what I do. Ride so fast no one can see WTF your doing so cant comment!!!!

Over and out Rubber DICKY!

:pac::pac::pac:

colm_c · 04-04-2017 1:07pm

There is no simple yes/no when filtering.

IMO you should always do two things:

#1 always ride within your ability, regardless of what others are doing (sometimes known as the 70% rule).

#2 ride for the conditions around you (including other road users)

Wossack · 04-04-2017 1:28pm

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

FFS...

Just do what I do. Ride so fast no one can see WTF your doing so cant comment!!!!

Over and out Rubber DICKY!

:pac::pac::pac:

I find if my handlebars are same level as the wing mirrors, and impeding my progress - just pop it up on the back wheel

Max Headroom · 04-04-2017 4:24pm

FFS .:mad:.....if anyone else mentions "because its illegal" i swear i'll come round to yer house an stamp on yer daffs....".Let he who is without sin " etc etc....:rolleyes:

Lumen · 04-04-2017 5:15pm

Max Headroom wrote: »

FFS .:mad:.....if anyone else mentions "because its illegal" i swear i'll come round to yer house an stamp on yer daffs....".

That's trespass and criminal damage. Which is illegal.

bladespin · 04-04-2017 5:22pm

Max Headroom wrote: »

FFS .:mad:.....if anyone else mentions "because its illegal"

Counted 2 posts

sonofenoch · 04-04-2017 6:51pm

Was filtering behind some guy on the N4 one time ....from Palmerstown to Liffey valley he stuck the leg out for every vehicle passed ....most ridiculous and amusing thing I've ever seen

listermint · 04-04-2017 7:19pm

Max Headroom wrote: »

FFS .:mad:.....if anyone else mentions "because its illegal" i swear i'll come round to yer house an stamp on yer daffs....".Let he who is without sin " etc etc....:rolleyes:

Well forget the legality's. You just look a twat going up the hard shoulder.

Enough said.

Hotblack Desiato · 05-04-2017 1:59am

frozenfrozen wrote: »

the one thing i'd say is to just think over mistakes you make after each ride and try to think what you should have done and try not to make the same mistake twice.

I still do the same thing after every ride.

22 years on bikes.

Never stop learning.

sonofenoch wrote: »

Was filtering behind some guy on the N4 one time ....from Palmerstown to Liffey valley he stuck the leg out for every vehicle passed ....most ridiculous and amusing thing I've ever seen

It's equivalent to a wave. Very common on the continent.

CaptainR · 05-04-2017 7:40am

One thing that really annoys me is when the council re-paint white centre lines without burning/chipping off the original layer. Over a couple of repaints it becomes a raised lip in the road. Filtering over it is headwrecking.

Max Headroom · 05-04-2017 8:27am

bladespin wrote: »

Counted 2 posts

Get out more......;)

listermint wrote: »

Well forget the legality's. You just look a twat going up the hard shoulder.

Enough said.

Maybe in your blinkered view....good enough for the Gardai..good enough for me...nuff said

listermint · 06-04-2017 1:47pm

Max Headroom wrote: »

Get out more......;)

Maybe in your blinkered view....good enough for the Gardai..good enough for me...nuff said

Its an emergency lane, the Guards have better training than you.

Training never stops,

It appears for some it does....

Lumen · 06-04-2017 2:15pm

listermint wrote: »

Its an emergency lane, the Guards have better training than you

Not only that, they're responding to an emergency (well, that's the theory) so balance of risks is taken.

Max Headroom · 06-04-2017 5:00pm

listermint wrote: »

Its an emergency lane, the Guards have better training than you ..doubt it..;);)

Training never stops,..it does when you pass..;);)

It appears for some it does....

Lumen wrote: »

Not only that, they're responding to an emergency (well, that's the theory) so balance of risks is taken.

Not always....

schaffer · 07-04-2017 1:55pm

CaptainR wrote: »

One thing that really annoys me is when the council re-paint white centre lines without burning/chipping off the original layer. Over a couple of repaints it becomes a raised lip in the road. Filtering over it is headwrecking.

Try filtering down the N11 where they have done a bad road join between the lanes... you have to choose one side or the other.

AlekSmart · 13-06-2019 7:18pm

Cienciano wrote: »

You're doing the right thing. Whatever method you use, do not do it fast, cars will change lanes or move into the hard shoulder, so you will have to prepare to stop.

I don't agree. I was in traffic the other day on the M50 and bikes were filtering between lanes. I didn't feel comfortable doing it because you had so little room each side and cars will change lane with minimal observation. I'm not going to stop commuting till I get training filter! What are these "skill points" you talk of

There's plenty of moves that are "illegal" on a bike but if we feel safe doing it, we'll do it. I wouldn't be drawing a line on whats legal to do or not. Obviously you don't get much sympathy if you come off while doing something illegal, and some people will draw the line further than others.

Resurrecting this thread,but in good faith....:)

Interesting video clip from Nottingham,with my observation being just how much room her Majesty's Subjects appear to give to Motorcyclists....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS9ypDoRO-c

I rarely encounter such lengths of well seperated vehicles on the M50...maybe a half dozen before some wild eyed loon spots my approach and deliberately moves to close up access......:(

Richard tea · 13-06-2019 9:33pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Resurrecting this thread,but in good faith....:)

Interesting video clip from Nottingham,with my observation being just how much room her Majesty's Subjects appear to give to Motorcyclists....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS9ypDoRO-c

I rarely encounter such lengths of well seperated vehicles on the M50...maybe a half dozen before some wild eyed loon spots my approach and deliberately moves to close up access......:(

The majority on the M4 make room but there is always a few meanies who feel you shouldn't pass them. There are some that dart over way in excess to let you pass and I wonder if they just got a fright or is it a fellow biker having a car day. Either way as odd as it sound I enjoy the filtering parts of my commute. Commuting on a early Sunday morning with no traffic can be monotonous.

Hotblack Desiato · 14-06-2019 11:45am

A fellow biker having a car day should know not to do anything sudden or unpredictable - when he's looking at you on his left maybe another rider is trying to pass him on his right?

He should know to let you ride your own ride and that you'll only go if you're happy you have room

He should know that the reason you're hanging back could be the truck on your left, or the guy ahead of his car

There's no need for any car driver to do anything other than drive reasonably close to the centre of their lane

Since the Newlands Cross flyover opened I rarely have to do much filtering though. Bus lanes now, that's another story

I do find the exaggerated last second swerves out of the way a bit amusing though, it's like they think I need two metres to get by? Or, oh you only saw me now I've been behind you for the last few hundred metres just biding my time

macplaxton · 14-06-2019 7:41pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

before some wild eyed loon spots my approach and deliberately moves to close up access......:(

Richard tea wrote: »

but there is always a few meanies who feel you shouldn't pass them.

This doesn't happen on routes into London because mirrors are fair game for those filtering - e.g. if you try to be an arse like that, it doesn't take long before they are "removed".

Due to shift working, I don't have to filter much over here. On the occasions I have filtered from J6 all the way to the M50 between the two outer lanes quicker than others that have used the bus lane. (IMO there's two many breaks / cross-overs in that bus lane to be of any use to save time). On other occasions I'm just to lazy to bother and will wave someone through so I can carry on at my leisure.

IJS84 · 18-06-2019 3:11pm

Issue I find is that, like this morning you'll always get the 1, you know who they are. the mr/mrs (they dont discrimiate on gender) you shouldnt be able to pass me in my big car, as your going past move the car in your direction to cut you off/make it look like they want to hit you. These are also the same breed that havent splashed out on the ''optional extra indicators''

But when you do get the obliging motorist that gives you a bit more space fpr ya to filter through safely and we all get home.

zubair · 18-06-2019 3:31pm

I commute daily and honestly find almost all drivers to be either in their own world and unfazed by myself or any other biker or they make an effort to let me by. I seldom see someone try and bully me. The only one that gets my goat is the lane 3 hoggers when lane 1 and 2 are clear who don't seem to want to move despite me clearly looking to overtake.

IJS84 · 18-06-2019 3:49pm

I find most drivers grand but maybe I didnt explain it properly but there is always 1 lol

rowanh · 20-06-2019 8:11pm

This lad clearly is quite capable when it comes to filtering but chooses to go in the hard shoulder..

IrishGrimReaper · 20-06-2019 9:58pm

That is idiotic... terrifying and impressive all at once. Holy ****.

listermint · 20-06-2019 10:02pm

You don't be long living driving like that.

And I love the level of concern he had for the fella standing at the side of the road to his right....

Hotblack Desiato · 21-06-2019 2:10am

I'd be rightly pissed off if I was on one of the bikes tootlling along in the hard shoulder when he did that.

Cian_ok · 21-06-2019 7:24am

IrishGrimReaper wrote: »

That is idiotic... terrifying and impressive all at once. Holy ****.

No need to shoulder-check when you're riding that fast - nobody could catch you.

IJS84 · 21-06-2019 11:53am

videos like that give me anxiety of something bad happening

Learn to filter!

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