Learn to filter!

zubair

Maybe its fair weather bikers but why do some people think it's ok to ride in the hard shoulder, you have as much right to do that as a car. Bus lanes, that's a different story, but it's never ok to ride in the hard shoulder. There was stopped traffic on the N7 this morning for miles and one rider was in the hard shoulder the entire way. He obviously knows it's illegal as when he spotted the guards he was back to normal filtering and then back into the hard shoulder again. When the speed picked up he was still undertaking traffic at the speed limit in the hard shoulder. Learn to filter FFS! A puncture is the best thing you can get from doing this

bladespin

TBH I could definitely be described as fair weather (these days anyway) but I've always tried to stay out of the hard shoulder, undertaking there is a recipe for a bad day IMO.

zubair

bladespin wrote: »

TBH I could definitely be described as fair weather (these days anyway) but I've always tried to stay out of the hard shoulder, undertaking there is a recipe for a bad day IMO.

Maybe fair weather was too broad. I did not mean to offend any fair weather bikers in this post

Cienciano

It's illegal, but it's probably safer than filtering sometimes. But as you say, good chance of a puncture

bladespin

Cienciano wrote: »

It's illegal, but it's probably saferthan filtering sometimes. But as you say, good chance of a puncture

I wouldn't think so, knowing how observant 4 wheelers can be, how many times have you seen one just swerve into the HS to stop, next exit, etc etc.

Have seen a fella on the N7 filtering between cars and the central median.
what a nutjob

GerryDerpy

I find it safer myself. If a driver is the non-observant type then they will swerve into you no matter if you are in the hard shoulder or not.

Have never got a puncture either, I'm very observant of nails, glass etc.

Have been pulled in by gardai once and got told off but no other action.

Lumen

crv wrote: »

Being in cycle lanes is illegal

No, being in mandatory cycle lanes (i.e. solid line) is illegal. I think.

More generally...

This section of the northbound N11 is frequently jammers in the morning and the lanes are narrow enough to make filtering very difficult:

https://goo.gl/maps/jUG1iW3bzSx

...so lots of motorcyclists use the hatched area (is it still called hard shoulder).

I'm not really sure how I feel about that.

zubair

crv wrote: »

Being in cycle lanes is illegal but safer as they are empty most of the time and drivers tend not to go into them as much. I prefer to use common sense than laws created by someone who does not ride a motorbike.

No offense but this is completely wrong, you'll get ****ed up in the cycle lane. While I'll occupy a cycle lane for a moment if necessary this isn't a place for motorbikes or scooters who are going far faster than any bicycles and will find trouble much sooner, you're also more likely to encounter cyclists and pedestrians in there. You have no escape in there.

Back to the hard shoulder topic, it's obviously illegal and i find the fact that they were driving there frustrating as a fellow biker, no doubt we'd all be complaining if a car did it. Bikes already have a great advantage of being able to filter and you should use that, if you don't think its safe to filter then wait in your lane until it is safe to do so. I should clarify that after miles of this and the traffic was on the move again they continued to undertake the traffic in the hs when it was going 100kph+.

frozenfrozen

crv wrote: »

What is safer? Going in the opposite direction traffic coming straight towards your or an empty hard shoulder? The situation you explained by drivers turning into hard shoulder happens in the city all the time, example would be 2 lanes, 1 is turn right and the other go straight, you would get drivers mistakenly in the wrong lane go back to the other one without looking happens all the time. How many drivers you have seen pull in the hard shoulder and stop? I am saying that it is much more likely to happen on a straight road than on the hard shoulder, therefore making the hard shoulder safer. The only difference is that it usually has loads of ****e on it. Being in cycle lanes is illegal but safer as they are empty most of the time and drivers tend not to go into them as much. I prefer to use common sense than laws created by someone who does not ride a motorbike.

hows that working out for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9IEgyBUUL4

bladespin

frozenfrozen wrote: »

hows that working out for you

Squeaky bum moment :eek:

crv

Lumen wrote: »

No, being in mandatory cycle lanes (i.e. solid line) is illegal. I think.

More generally...

This section of the northbound N11 is frequently jammers in the morning and the lanes are narrow enough to make filtering very difficult:

https://goo.gl/maps/jUG1iW3bzSx

...so lots of motorcyclists use the hatched area (is it still called hard shoulder).

I'm not really sure how I feel about that.

That's what I meant, sorry for no clarification.

crv

frozenfrozen wrote: »

hows that working out for you

The quality is not that great due to youtube, but the speed limit in that part of the road is 80 km/h. I did not break any laws, if you notice I barely go over 80, the only thing that I did illegal was go into the bus lane. In that situation I should have waited for the car to turn right then proceeded? Because for some reason it is my fault that the driver does not seem me.

frozenfrozen

I don't care what you do just posting you nearly in a really common accident from undertaking after you were trying to give your opinion about how nobody would really ever merge in on top of you, it happens as quickly as it did in that video.

BTW you don't do any life savers and you cross continuous white lines as well as staying in an auxiliary lane while it changes to a bus lane while undertaking and filtering fairly haphazardly so do whatever you want but just be aware that you're not riding safely

Doesn't matter whose fault it is if you get injured.

So do whatever you want but maybe refrain from giving riding tips and leave it to proper instructors

crv

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I don't care what you do just posting you nearly in a really common accident from undertaking after you were trying to give your opinion about how nobody would really ever merge in on top of you, it happens as quickly as it did in that video.

BTW you don't do any life savers and you cross continuous white lines as well as staying in an auxiliary lane while it changes to a bus lane while undertaking and filtering fairly haphazardly so do whatever you want but just be aware that you're not riding safely

Doesn't matter whose fault it is if you get injured.

So do whatever you want but maybe refrain from giving riding tips and leave it to proper instructors

Yeah I guess you're right, I was a bit stupid there. I will delete my posts. I am still on a provisional licence as you can see so I don't have that much experience but I am getting better every week. I shouldn't say anything when you all have your licenses for years and I have mine for 4 months.

Lumen

crv wrote: »

Yeah I guess you're right, I was a bit stupid there. I will delete my posts. I am still on a provisional licence as you can see so I don't have that much experience but I am getting better every week. I shouldn't say anything when you all have your licenses for years and I have mine for 4 months.

I spent an evening watching Youtube crash videos after feeling a bit cocky catching my first slide off a roundabout.

"youtube lane splitting crash" is a good search term.

I wouldn't bother deleting your posts. This isn't your CV!

frozenfrozen

crv don't feel bad or anything, all anyone on here wants would be for everyone to enjoy their bikes however they like and not get hurt so don't worry about it and keep getting better

the one thing i'd say is to just think over mistakes you make after each ride and try to think what you should have done and try not to make the same mistake twice.


so don't worry about what you posted

zubair

As per the lads, no need to apologise or delete your post, forums are about discussions and opinions, they'd be boring if we all agreed.

As you are only learning it's great for you to be involved in the forum and even better that you have an open mind to take on board the guys feedback. We all had to learn, it's just always best that its not the hard way.

I'm not saying I never undertake, drive in bus lanes, cross a solid white line (although i don't cross the yellow ones as discussed ), I never know what speed i'm doing but it's almost always faster than everything around me; however, i am always watching, looking, checking, preparing and planning which is the most important thing IMO. If you cant see or be seen you're going to have problems and this means you have to be very careful when in the hs, cycle lane or lane 1 where visibility is at its worst so it's best not to be there.

st1979

Glad this thread was started as I was meaning to start similar. I am only 15mts on the road full licence but total fair weather rider. Plus I rarely ride in bad traffic. Had to come down n11 at rush hour around bray exit one evening. I watched other bikes use hard shoulder and generally fly along so wondered if I was wrong. When both lanes stopped I would slowly ride between the 2 lanes of cars until the started to move again. Was I filtering or lane splitting

Max Headroom

If we were to do things by the book or as per instruction we may as well just buy a car...Where has all the common sense gone these days...people looking for reasons or excuses to blame someone else seems to be the order of the day...do what you feel comfortable doing..i've seen guys sitting in traffic behind cars..its their thing..:)

GBX

Max Headroom wrote: »

If we were to do things by the book or as per instruction we may as well just buy a car...Where has all the common sense gone these days...people looking for reasons or excuses to blame someone else seems to be the order of the day...do what you feel comfortable doing..i've seen guys sitting in traffic behind cars..its their thing..:)

Thats it, theres some days for me its easier to filter and move up and others I just sit there because of the amount of cyclists already at the top etc

listermint

If you can't manage to have the ability to filter through normal lanes then i suggest you stop commuting until you get adequate training to do so.

It's a basic skill for manuevour and most importantly observation.

Lashing up the hard shoulder gives you neither and is dangerous illegal and gives you no additional skill points.

Go get some training and get comfortable with the bike.

Cienciano

st1979 wrote: »

Glad this thread was started as I was meaning to start similar. I am only 15mts on the road full licence but total fair weather rider. Plus I rarely ride in bad traffic. Had to come down n11 at rush hour around bray exit one evening. I watched other bikes use hard shoulder and generally fly along so wondered if I was wrong. When both lanes stopped I would slowly ride between the 2 lanes of cars until the started to move again. Was I filtering or lane splitting

You're doing the right thing. Whatever method you use, do not do it fast, cars will change lanes or move into the hard shoulder, so you will have to prepare to stop.

listermint wrote: »

If you can't manage to have the ability to filter through normal lanes then i suggest you stop commuting until you get adequate training to do so.

It's a basic skill for manuevour and most importantly observation.

Lashing up the hard shoulder gives you neither and is dangerous illegal and gives you no additional skill points.

Go get some training and get comfortable with the bike.

I don't agree. I was in traffic the other day on the M50 and bikes were filtering between lanes. I didn't feel comfortable doing it because you had so little room each side and cars will change lane with minimal observation. I'm not going to stop commuting till I get training filter! What are these "skill points" you talk of

There's plenty of moves that are "illegal" on a bike but if we feel safe doing it, we'll do it. I wouldn't be drawing a line on whats legal to do or not. Obviously you don't get much sympathy if you come off while doing something illegal, and some people will draw the line further than others.

Wonda-Boy

FFS...

Just do what I do. Ride so fast no one can see WTF your doing so cant comment!!!!

Over and out Rubber DICKY!

:pac::pac::pac:

colm_c

There is no simple yes/no when filtering.

IMO you should always do two things:

#1 always ride within your ability, regardless of what others are doing (sometimes known as the 70% rule).

#2 ride for the conditions around you (including other road users)

Wossack

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

FFS...

Just do what I do. Ride so fast no one can see WTF your doing so cant comment!!!!

Over and out Rubber DICKY!

:pac::pac::pac:

I find if my handlebars are same level as the wing mirrors, and impeding my progress - just pop it up on the back wheel

Max Headroom

FFS .:mad:.....if anyone else mentions "because its illegal" i swear i'll come round to yer house an stamp on yer daffs....".Let he who is without sin " etc etc....:rolleyes:

Lumen

Max Headroom wrote: »

FFS .:mad:.....if anyone else mentions "because its illegal" i swear i'll come round to yer house an stamp on yer daffs....".

That's trespass and criminal damage. Which is illegal.

bladespin

Max Headroom wrote: »

FFS .:mad:.....if anyone else mentions "because its illegal"

Counted 2 posts

sonofenoch

Was filtering behind some guy on the N4 one time ....from Palmerstown to Liffey valley he stuck the leg out for every vehicle passed ....most ridiculous and amusing thing I've ever seen

listermint

Max Headroom wrote: »

FFS .:mad:.....if anyone else mentions "because its illegal" i swear i'll come round to yer house an stamp on yer daffs....".Let he who is without sin " etc etc....:rolleyes:

Well forget the legality's. You just look a twat going up the hard shoulder.

Enough said.