what is the burning passion for having an open fire?

Andy From Sligo · 07-12-2019 2:24am

air wrote: »

You get a feel for it quickly if you take an interest, many don't.

Air pollution is down primarily due to improvements in industrial and vehicle emissions.
There's very little scope for further improvements there other than the shift to electric vehicles.

According to this website an older wood stove emits 15 to 40g of particulate matter per hour.
I'd be fairly confident that a turf fire damped down as promoted by a few people in this thread emits a lot more.

A Euro 6 compliant diesel on the other hand can emit no more than 0.005g/km of particulate matter.

So even taking the lower figure of 15g per hour for a wood stove a single stove emits more PM than 40 cars doing 80kph.

If an average car does 18,000km per annum at 50kph, it's only running for 360 hours a year.
I'd guess a wood stove would run for at least twice that number of hours per year (say 4 months a year for 6 hours).
This would mean the PM emissions of one wood stove would be equivalent to that of 80 cars.

Hopefully this helps explain where the anti wood stove sentiment is coming from.

that's fascinating - puts it into perspective makes you sit up and think (rather makes me sit up and think) .. although the people who would rather die than give up an open fire , I doubt if it makes them sit up and think.

I wonder how many people have come home from work in their electric cars now, recycling everything in its proper bins, their kids missed days off school protesting about the environment, conserve water when brushing their teeth ..... come home and light an open fire?

pablo128 · 07-12-2019 3:13am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

its a lot lighter when you remove the gas bottle

It's a lot cheaper to break up a few pallets out of the job and burn them instead.:D

izzyflusky · 07-12-2019 1:09pm

We bought a new build and no need for a fire, house it's at a constant 21 degrees (which is what we like) and walk around in t-shirts all year round.

I never used the fire in other houses though. And now Yankee candles do crackling candles which is what I use for the noise effect when I want to relax. We are also inserting an electric fireplace at the moment for the visual only as the house is too warm as it is sometimes.

deezell · 07-12-2019 1:26pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

We have a stove that heats the water in the tank. The difference between stove heated water and oil heated water is actually quite remarkable when you are having a shower the next morning. There just seems to be more depth in the heat, more substance. I always miss it during the warmer months.

Thats just fantasy in your head, the energy stored in the heated water has no particular difference due to the heating source, other than the stove can often heat the cylinder way past the stat temperature limit of the oil. Still, it's a nice conceit, it's more likely the earthy feeling of satisfaction from using wood stove heated water. Old Proverb, "He who chops his own firewood warms himself twice". I love the stove heat from the radiators and the silence of the oil boiler at the same time, knowing it was my own sweat responsible for the wood pile that supplied it.

the_syco · 07-12-2019 1:34pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

hauling in filthy bloody dirty coal from the freezing cold outside

Coal? Logs is where it's at!

deezell · 07-12-2019 1:42pm

the_syco wrote: »

Coal? Logs is where it's at!

Yes, and a few smokeless coal stove nuggets sparingly now and then under the logs can get a really intense burn going, optimising combustion.

freshpopcorn · 07-12-2019 2:30pm

I find the fire cosy and relaxing compared to central heating all the time.
I've being in houses where there's no fire and whilst they are warm. They don't feel homely in my experience.

Ubbquittious · 07-12-2019 3:38pm

air wrote: »

You get a feel for it quickly if you take an interest, many don't.

Air pollution is down primarily due to improvements in industrial and vehicle emissions.
There's very little scope for further improvements there other than the shift to electric vehicles.

According to this website an older wood stove emits 15 to 40g of particulate matter per hour.
I'd be fairly confident that a turf fire damped down as promoted by a few people in this thread emits a lot more.

A Euro 6 compliant diesel on the other hand can emit no more than 0.005g/km of particulate matter.

So even taking the lower figure of 15g per hour for a wood stove a single stove emits more PM than 40 cars doing 80kph.

If an average car does 18,000km per annum at 50kph, it's only running for 360 hours a year.
I'd guess a wood stove would run for at least twice that number of hours per year (say 4 months a year for 6 hours).
This would mean the PM emissions of one wood stove would be equivalent to that of 80 cars.

Hopefully this helps explain where the anti wood stove sentiment is coming from.

There are way more cars on the road than there are lit stoves. and if you have the fire damped down the rate at which stuff comes out the chimney decreases an awful lot. Very few people have old stoves though I have a couple at home they would be rare enough since they only really caught on during the tiger here.

i can see it would cause a problem back in the day when every single person in a town was burning smoky coal in an open fire but these days when you look around there aren't that many chimneys with smoke coming out and the wind blows away most of it. We are very windswept here and only places like Iceland would have better air quality than we do

air · 07-12-2019 3:44pm

Try driving through any rural town or indeed city in freezing conditions when everyone has their stove or fire lit.
The air quality is absolutely abysmal and I find it very noticeable even driving through.
It happened only a week ago when we had a short cold snap.
Only a matter of time before legislation is introduced to protect us from ourselves.

Ubbquittious · 07-12-2019 3:53pm

air wrote: »

Try driving through any rural town or indeed city in freezing conditions when everyone has their stove or fire lit.
The air quality is absolutely abysmal and I find it very noticeable even driving through.
It happened only a week ago when we had a short cold snap.
Only a matter of time before legislation is introduced to protect us from ourselves.

The conditions have to be just right for that to happen. We are rarely lucky enough that it's cold and no wind. The odd time in places you'd get a whiff of turf or coal alright but it's never terrible. Whats way worse is when there's a fella burning plastic

r93kaey5p2izun · 07-12-2019 3:58pm

Up until last year I never lived in a house with another heating option apart from the open fire. All houses I lived in had no other heating. This house has gas which is a novelty for me, and while I miss sitting beside the fire, I don't miss the hassle of it. I am currently in the process of buying a house with oil and an open fire. I cannot see myself ever lighting the fire even though I like it, so I think I'll get rid of it, maybe replace with a stove.

air · 07-12-2019 4:01pm

Yes, and when the conditions are just right for it is when people are most likely to light their fires due to low temperatures.

I do find it terrible to be honest, but that's all subjective.

The real issue is the human health impact from imperceptibly tiny particulate matter which is impacting everyone's health, both inside and outside the houses with the fires.

Long before it gets bad enough that you can smell the smoke you can be sure you're guzzling damaging PM in through your lungs.

air · 07-12-2019 4:03pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I find the fire cosy and relaxing compared to central heating all the time.
I've being in houses where there's no fire and whilst they are warm. They don't feel homely in my experience.

Radiant heat is the primary constituent of what would be perceived as this "homely" feel.
It can be perfectly replicated with infrared heating panels.

The flickering glow of the fire is available on Netflix or Youtube!

The positive associations with the poor indoor air quality (smell of smoke) is related to memories you formed near a fire in the past.

freshpopcorn · 07-12-2019 4:17pm

air wrote: »

Radiant heat is the primary constituent of what would be perceived as this "homely" feel.
It can be perfectly replicated with infrared heating panels.

The flickering glow of the fire is available on Netflix or Youtube!

The positive associations with the poor indoor air quality (smell of smoke) is related to memories you formed near a fire in the past.

A flicking picture or an electric yoke. Isn't the same as a fire.
If your house smells badly of smoke. There's issues with your chimney.

Ubbquittious · 07-12-2019 4:32pm

air wrote: »

Yes, and when the conditions are just right for it is when people are most likely to light their fires due to low temperatures.

I do find it terrible to be honest, but that's all subjective.

The real issue is the human health impact from imperceptibly tiny particulate matter which is impacting everyone's health, both inside and outside the houses with the fires.

Long before it gets bad enough that you can smell the smoke you can be sure you're guzzling damaging PM in through your lungs.

There is some amount PM everywhere no getting away from it. On the few days a year that you find it terrible you're better off going to visit your auntie's farm in the countryside and go for a jaunt on one of her horses. Or maybe grab the shotgun and bring home an auld pheasant for the dinner. This will save you from having to add to the problem yourself and much better than stewing at home being bitter about it.

Muahahaha · 07-12-2019 5:14pm

air wrote: »

Try driving through any rural town or indeed city in freezing conditions when everyone has their stove or fire lit.
The air quality is absolutely abysmal and I find it very noticeable even driving through.
It happened only a week ago when we had a short cold snap.
Only a matter of time before legislation is introduced to protect us from ourselves.

I couldnt see any political party in power pushing a new law that would ban lighting fires, it would be political suicide for them. Maybe the EU will push it and it will be forced upon us but then it will be widely ignored with little to no enforcement. .

air · 07-12-2019 5:37pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

I couldnt see any political party in power pushing a new law that would ban lighting fires, it would be political suicide for them. Maybe the EU will push it and it will be forced upon us but then it will be widely ignored with little to no enforcement. .

I agree, it won't happen overnight by any means but it is inevitable that they will be introduced eventually. It's already being talked about for larger European cities.

I would imagine one off rural properties would be the last to be impacted.

air · 07-12-2019 5:39pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

A flicking picture or an electric yoke. Isn't the same as a fire.
If your house smells badly of smoke. There's issues with your chimney.

I never said it was the same, but it's likely to be the closest thing available eventually.

No smell of smoke in my house thanks as I don't have a fire. A different story if I step outside on a cold calm night however.

air · 07-12-2019 5:44pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

There is some amount PM everywhere no getting away from it.

Of course there is, which is all the more reason to eliminate all the needless sources of it.

If people want to burn wood for now it should be in pellet form where the fuel quality, moisture content and combustion can all be controlled precisely to minimise the human health impact.

I'm not in the least bit bitter about smoke, it's a fact of life for now however I'm not going to accept that solid fuel burning in urban areas is a good idea either.

Ubbquittious · 07-12-2019 5:45pm

air wrote: »

I agree, it won't happen overnight by any means but it is inevitable that they will be introduced eventually. It's already being talked about for larger European cities.

I would imagine one off rural properties would be the last to be impacted.

Maybe they will eventually come up with some daft contraption of a system that they make you install to suck the particles out, probably a lot easier to do than with a car since theres no movement but I'm not too worried they'll do anything.

freshpopcorn · 07-12-2019 5:45pm

air wrote: »

I never said it was the same, but it's likely to be the closest thing available eventually.

No smell of smoke in my house thanks as I don't have a fire. A different story if I step outside on a cold calm night however.

If you were in a house and there was a smell of smoke there's a problem with the chimney. That's what I was confirming for you.
Thanks for also confirming that your flicking screen isn't the same as a nice homely fire and it's imilar to an office, prison or something with no real atmosphere. Enjoy it.

beejee · 07-12-2019 5:54pm

As someone said to me once, and it stuck, a good fire is like company.

There is something animate about a fire, something close to being "alive", the crackle and movement and shifting glow.

Really love a nice fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_KmNZNT5xw

air · 07-12-2019 5:56pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Maybe they will eventually come up with some daft contraption of a system that they make you install to suck the particles out, probably a lot easier to do than with a car since theres no movement but I'm not too worried they'll do anything.

The issue with particulate filters is the huge variation in fuel quality that gets burned in solid fuel fires.
I don't know if there is any way to burn peat or peat products without horrific emissions.

Plenty of people were sceptical about the smoking ban as well before it was introduced.

Anyway, enjoy your polluted air while you can

Moon Indigo · 07-12-2019 6:56pm

For heat. The house has no central heating and never had. Rads heat up from the Stanley in the kitchen and open fire in sitting room heats that room. Yes I do know I must get central heating in but financially just unable to afford it at the present time. I love the open fire but really aware that times are changing so will have to get heating put in.

air · 07-12-2019 7:06pm

There are grants available for heat pumps but you need to have a pretty good BER to start with which isn't cheap either unfortunately if your house is an old and poorly insulated one.
A stove instead of the open fire in your sitting room would probably be a good improvement in the short term.

Muahahaha · 07-12-2019 7:38pm

air wrote: »

I agree, it won't happen overnight by any means but it is inevitable that they will be introduced eventually. It's already being talked about for larger European cities.

I would imagine one off rural properties would be the last to be impacted.

Yeah I would imagine at some stage a directive will come down from the EU and that will give the government of the day political cover to introduce a ban. Enforcement though would be a nightmare and I just cant see the Gardai spinning around at night time looking for smoke coming out of peoples chimneys. It would also result in a fair few jobs losses for those who work supplying solid fuels.

I wonder would just banning coal/peat briquettes and permitting wood only make any tangible difference to the air quality or does it have to be wood too?

An Ri rua · 07-12-2019 8:04pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

do you know when the world will go to **** - until it does will ye not use Gas or oil to heat your rads and water seeing as they are like readily available?

there are cleaner alternatives out there.

many people wash their clothes in a washing machine these days, they no longer go down to the river with a stone and washboard because the washing machine is cleaner, more modern, less hassle and does a good job .
sure if the electric goes off and you can no longer use the washing machine you will have to wash your clothes in the sink .. but until that time comes ...

What about the fact that oil extraction is the cause of so much human misery and loss of life?
We need to be practical about all of this. And move towards greener ways that brings everyone along, rich and poor.
At the moment, the green lobby is, intended or not, a war on poorer people. Drive a new diesel or hybrid or electric that has wasted so much resources to make, and import, or drive an older car, fully serviced, NCT'd, until it's 15-20 years old. Don't worry, the government and middle class overpaid urban types have already made that decision easy to make, if you have the money....
The environmental issues didn't just happen yesterday. The Greens did damage at the local elections and now FG/FF see merit in absorbing some of this message and so they fuel the kids. The kids aren't wrong, it's just they're only seeing what others have seen already. Except they get driven to school and fly on school trips and family holidays....
Years ago I wrote to Dan Boyle about installing simple stoves with a five year ROI using the very money they were giving through the fuel allowance.
Nothing happened. As the Greens werent rooted in practicality. Much like Pippa Hackett's first pronouncement as s Councillor in Offaly, with regards to biodegradable election posters. Did you ever hear the like?! Titanic...deckchairs.... Typical of the middle-class clueless green.
Be f**kin frugal and respect life and inanimate objects, instead of conspicuous consumption and destruction.

Sitting in front of a roaring fire right now. 2 rooms heated, rest of house cool til required.

All things should be examined. But the kneejerk stuff is painful to watch, like teenagers discovering the sky is falling. Much as we discovered impending nuclear armaggedon in the 80s....Geiger counters are go!

I wonder how that idiot on the radio that the OP referred to cuts his lawn? 2 stroke petrol? 4 stroke purgatory? Or does he use a good old cylinder push mower (I do once I get the weather and the lawn sorted).

Rant over.

Moon Indigo · 07-12-2019 8:43pm

Applied for the SEAI grant and awaiting a surveyor so that may help a bit. Ah I know old house and your right not greatly insulated and truth is I do worry about it but I count myself fortunate that I have heat and home. I also don’t think I can possibly be the only home in Ireland without central heating. I think often of some older person hearing about a ban on fires and them being genuinely worried silly. As do I think of the jobs that will go when it does all happen but times change and sometimes all you can do is change with them. Now to light that fire before I freeze!

md23040 · 07-12-2019 9:58pm

air wrote: »

There are grants available for heat pumps but you need to have a pretty good BER to start with which isn't cheap either unfortunately if your house is an old and poorly insulated one.
A stove instead of the open fire in your sitting room would probably be a good improvement in the short term.

I work for council in renewable energy projects in Ireland and across EU in collaboration schemes. I was surprised but the cheapest means on heating a house according to research last week was from new stove systems that efficiently burns coal at high temperature, followed by natural gas. It could be different in Ireland with the carbon tax. I come across so many reports, so at this stage don’t ask for source but if I find it can add as an edit to this.

In relation to air source pumps, I was talking to an energy manager of a large housing association with a few thousand properties at an energy conference and he was saying those installed a few years ago are constantly giving bother and are looking at other systems.

The only alternative IMO to heat a house is passive standard or nZeb (near zero emission building) and a PIV or mechanical heat recovery unit with low infrequent heat input. That way there will be not many issues in the future with things going wrong.

I’ve a Stanley Reginald that does the rads and water and it’s a fantastic ambience. Stayed in Dublin last week in a house with Natural Gas and it is very vanilla and not the same, no comparison. A nice fire is so comforting and similar IMO to a walk on the beach and the soothing sound of waves crashing as opposed to walking around a park.

air · 07-12-2019 10:10pm

Well coal fired electricity is dirt cheap as well but it's hardly a viable option.
Coal needs to stay in the ground, permanently.

lalababa · 07-12-2019 10:26pm

charlietheminxx wrote: »

I have a new build house and I am a little bit sad I'll never have an open fire again. They are just lovely and cosy and give a fantastic glow, always brilliant during power cuts too. There's something soothing about the flicking warm light and the heat and the gentle crackling.

Depending on your particular set up, you could put in a small stove and stick the flue out the wall and up...no great outlayðŸŒž
There are whole books written on the importance of fires, emotional, cultural, sipritual, etc etc. There is a saying 'you could nearly talk to a fire'
All that said an OPEN fire is a bit of a waste these days especially with energy conservation. But a stove with a nice big glass is just as spirit lifting as an open ðŸ”¥. As far as fuel & emissions , I would say if you only used wood (from replanting schemes) tis alright until such time as Irelands grid is coming close to 95% renewable. Then there might be an auld debate alright ðŸ™‚

Andy From Sligo · 07-12-2019 10:27pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I find the fire cosy and relaxing compared to central heating all the time.
I've being in houses where there's no fire and whilst they are warm. They don't feel homely in my experience.

you get used to it after a while .. not first of all if you are used to an open fire takes a bit of time , but all we ever have is oil heating on. the imitation electric fire in our fireplace has a fan heater in the bottom of it but never had to put the fan heater on because there a large double radiator in the living room . that has a thermostat on the radiator that goes to 5 and we turn it down to 3-4 otherwise room too hot.

Muahahaha · 07-12-2019 10:41pm

Moon Indigo wrote: »

Applied for the SEAI grant and awaiting a surveyor so that may help a bit. Ah I know old house and your right not greatly insulated and truth is I do worry about it but I count myself fortunate that I have heat and home. I also don’t think I can possibly be the only home in Ireland without central heating. I think often of some older person hearing about a ban on fires and them being genuinely worried silly. As do I think of the jobs that will go when it does all happen but times change and sometimes all you can do is change with them. Now to light that fire before I freeze!

Which grant & works have you applied for? Had a cold home myself and was going to spend a lot of money dry lining it. Didnt get much confidence from any of the companies I had out to quote so in the end I didnt go ahead but instead replaced all the windows with triple glazing and a very low U value. Replaced the front and back doors too and the works have made a huge difference. Rule of thumb now is that I dont need to switch on any heating unless it is 8 degrees or below outside. When I switch the heating off the house will still be warm 2 hours later even when it is 2 or 3 degrees outside. Glad it has worked out as now I dont see any need to insulate it further as its no longer losing heat at the rate it used to.

Andy From Sligo · 07-12-2019 11:06pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

There is some amount PM everywhere no getting away from it. On the few days a year that you find it terrible you're better off going to visit your auntie's farm in the countryside and go for a jaunt on one of her horses. Or maybe grab the shotgun and bring home an auld pheasant for the dinner. This will save you from having to add to the problem yourself and much better than stewing at home being bitter about it.

thats the problem right there, the countryside! - at least towns and cities have a ban on smokey coal and smokey fuel (well I say ban its supposed to be but a lot of the time its not enforced and the law is flouted) - in the countryside and rural areas i dont think the ban extends to there (not yet) . The nationwide ban was supposed to come in effect autumn 2019 .. but its been shelved ... indefinitely it seems at the moment

Andy From Sligo · 07-12-2019 11:25pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

I couldnt see any political party in power pushing a new law that would ban lighting fires, it would be political suicide for them. Maybe the EU will push it and it will be forced upon us but then it will be widely ignored with little to no enforcement. .

The ban on smoky coal was first promised by Labour’s Alan Kelly in 2015 .. and was to take place in autumn 2019 - richard bruton stopped it and has shelved it indefinitely now

Andy From Sligo · 07-12-2019 11:27pm

air wrote: »

I agree, it won't happen overnight by any means but it is inevitable that they will be introduced eventually. It's already being talked about for larger European cities.

I would imagine one off rural properties would be the last to be impacted.

on off rural properties could be the biggest offenders (more than likely are) - towns and cities more than likely served by mains gas supply and occupants out to work most of the day

Andy From Sligo · 07-12-2019 11:53pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Maybe they will eventually come up with some daft contraption of a system that they make you install to suck the particles out, probably a lot easier to do than with a car since theres no movement but I'm not too worried they'll do anything.

I wonder if a canister fitted to the chimney that acted like a catalytic converter on a car, would help cut down the particles? - it wouldn't cut them out altogether but might reduce the pollution?

there are (or used to be) available on the market , metal fans that fit to the chimney top flue (held on by a massive jubilee clip) that would 'suck' the fumes up the chimney . you could fit them on 'troublesome' chimneys where the flue wasnt efficient to produce enough updraught or if there was wind blowing down the chimney (and blowing smoke back into the room) - you could get them powered by a 230v ac motor , or operated by the power of the wind only . I think Woodies sold them

Andy From Sligo · 08-12-2019 12:11am

Moon Indigo wrote: »

For heat. The house has no central heating and never had. Rads heat up from the Stanley in the kitchen and open fire in sitting room heats that room. Yes I do know I must get central heating in but financially just unable to afford it at the present time. I love the open fire but really aware that times are changing so will have to get heating put in.

can you still get oil conversion kits for the ol' stanley ranges these days i wonder. might be cheaper to convert the range in the kitchen than getting a brand new oil boiler maybe - you already have one of the main components in the range already there which is the cast iron boiler part. the second most important thing is the 'burner' for that you could easily get a Riello RDB2 burner for around 400euro i reckon

pablo128 · 08-12-2019 12:14am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I wonder if a canister fitted to the chimney that acted like a catalytic converter on a car, would help cut down the particles? - it wouldn't cut them out altogether but might reduce the pollution?

there are (or used to be) available on the market , metal fans that fit to the chimney top flue (held on by a massive jubilee clip) that would 'suck' the fumes up the chimney . you could fit them on 'troublesome' chimneys where the flue wasnt efficient to produce enough updraught or if there was wind blowing down the chimney (and blowing smoke back into the room) - you could get them powered by a 230v ac motor , or operated by the power of the wind only . I think Woodies sold them

A catalytic converter wouldn't work. On a car engine, there are sensors that reduce or increase the fuel as required so the cat doesn't get blocked. Overfuelling destroys cats.

It would be like putting a cat on a car with a huge old carburettor, and no sensors. It would be fcuked in a day.

Andy From Sligo · 08-12-2019 12:24am

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah I would imagine at some stage a directive will come down from the EU and that will give the government of the day political cover to introduce a ban. Enforcement though would be a nightmare and I just cant see the Gardai spinning around at night time looking for smoke coming out of peoples chimneys. It would also result in a fair few jobs losses for those who work supplying solid fuels.

I wonder would just banning coal/peat briquettes and permitting wood only make any tangible difference to the air quality or does it have to be wood too?

ah yes EU directive - they banned 100w light bulbs and the high powered/wattage vacuum cleaners (or will do soon. we came to terms with that and went to CFL and LED bulbs easy enough - its all about adopting change , not easy with a lot of people but we all have it in our scope as intelligent human beings.

The Gardai wouldn't be set the task of policing it I shouldn't think ... - i would see it as an 'official' from the local council authority. Come round your house (more than likely after being reported by a neighbour or someone) "hello sir/madam can you tell me do you use your open fire / stove and what fuel do you burn in it?" and then write you out a warning maybe and if they have report of it again will charge you a fine of 150euro or something - hit you in the pocket more like . I reckon thats the way it would go.

There was talk when this ban came in of burning waste in your garden that the authorities sent out helicopters in the area to spy on people lighting fires in their back yard and issuing fines... I dunno if there was any truth in that but that was a rumour going round anyways ...

Moon Indigo · 08-12-2019 12:31am

Thanks for this never heard of it to be honest! Will most certainly check it out. If you have any further info can you send it my way? Sounds like a decent plan. The oil covertor for the Stanley That is

Ubbquittious · 08-12-2019 12:31am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thats the problem right there, the countryside! - at least towns and cities have a ban on smokey coal and smokey fuel (well I say ban its supposed to be but a lot of the time its not enforced and the law is flouted) - in the countryside and rural areas i dont think the ban extends to there (not yet) . The nationwide ban was supposed to come in effect autumn 2019 .. but its been shelved ... indefinitely it seems at the moment

but if he goes to the countryside he escapes the pollution of the town and in the countryside there isn't enough pollution in any one place to cause a problem.

I didn't know the smoky coal ban was shelved but if it goes ahead i reckon it would be hard to bring it into the country since I don't know any fella operating a coal mine on the qt

Andy From Sligo · 08-12-2019 12:35am

An Ri rua wrote: »

Sitting in front of a roaring fire right now. 2 rooms heated, rest of house cool til required.

...

not too cold in the other rooms I hope? (like a fridge in the other rooms but stifling hot in the rooms with a fire in) - that would be one of the worst contribution to damp and mould ever especially if those other colder rooms have no ventilation. - you would want to keep them over rooms hovering around 'normal room temperature' (arond the 20'c mark) because if you open those cold rooms and the heat from the fire'd rooms go into those cold rooms have a look at the beads of condensation shortly afterwards on the windows and wall where it changes temperature so quickly and doesnt have time to adjust slowly (even more visible if the rooms only have single glazed glass windows)

Ubbquittious · 08-12-2019 12:40am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I wonder if a canister fitted to the chimney that acted like a catalytic converter on a car, would help cut down the particles? - it wouldn't cut them out altogether but might reduce the pollution?

there are (or used to be) available on the market , metal fans that fit to the chimney top flue (held on by a massive jubilee clip) that would 'suck' the fumes up the chimney . you could fit them on 'troublesome' chimneys where the flue wasnt efficient to produce enough updraught or if there was wind blowing down the chimney (and blowing smoke back into the room) - you could get them powered by a 230v ac motor , or operated by the power of the wind only . I think Woodies sold them

Those still exist but I don't believe in them. It wouldn't be very 'off the grid' to have to run a 240v electric motor in order to light the stove. Any fella installing one of those is only a pretender..one step away from a fella with a video of a fire on a pixelated screen and an electric heating element

There are catylitic stoves that send the smoke back in a few times to be reburned and that seems to work fairly well and without consuming electricity but I don't know if it's enough to put a sock in the mouth of the most zealous green party voters

An Ri rua · 08-12-2019 12:52am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

not too cold in the other rooms I hope? (like a fridge in the other rooms but stifling hot in the rooms with a fire in) - that would be one of the worst contribution to damp and mould ever especially if those other colder rooms have no ventilation. - you would want to keep them over rooms hovering around 'normal room temperature' (arond the 20'c mark) because if you open those cold rooms and the heat from the fire'd rooms go into those cold rooms have a look at the beads of condensation shortly afterwards on the windows and wall where it changes temperature so quickly and doesnt have time to adjust slowly (even more visible if the rooms only have single glazed glass windows)

This isn't remotely true. Heat the ground floor of a semi and the heat rises up. Air the upstairs rooms daily. Zero damp issues here

Tin Foil Hat · 08-12-2019 12:54am

We have gas heating in our house. If it's cold I'll go to the utility room, press a button on a box on the wall, and the house gets warm.
Thumbs up from me.

We're in a house in the country tonight. Open fire. I was out in the rain earlier, shoveling filthy black stones into a metal bucket. These were then thrown onto said fire. In the morning I'll have to clean out the smouldering ash.
Thumbs down. Dickensian bullsh!t.

Andy From Sligo · 08-12-2019 12:54am

Moon Indigo wrote: »

Applied for the SEAI grant and awaiting a surveyor so that may help a bit. Ah I know old house and your right not greatly insulated and truth is I do worry about it but I count myself fortunate that I have heat and home. I also don’t think I can possibly be the only home in Ireland without central heating. I think often of some older person hearing about a ban on fires and them being genuinely worried silly. As do I think of the jobs that will go when it does all happen but times change and sometimes all you can do is change with them. Now to light that fire before I freeze!

good luck with getting the grant. One of the best things is the lagging up in the loft (above ceiling) I forget what the up to date minimum regs are for loft insulation / rockwell is these days. it used to be only 4mm years ago... I think its 6mm these days minimum , and what they ten to do is like put the 6mm with the 4mm still in situ (in other words when the professionals come in and insulate your loft they dont normally rip out all the old 4mm (pink it used to be) insulation, they normally put the nice thick blanket of 6mm (yellow in colour) on top of the 4mm) - also another thing to note , some older houses have no insulation whatsoever in the loft space, or if they have , over the years it gets all compressed with changes of air temperature and moisture that it effectively ends up getting so compressed that it no longer works in the way loft insulation should work.

hopefully your grant will stretch to cavity wall insulation if your property is built of breeze-block rather than stone . Really makes a difference. House I am in at the moment has cavity wall insulation downstairs , but upstairs its one of those dormer type house where the windows come out onto the roof. - well the type of house like ours cannot have cavity wall insulation added to the upper floor of the house - something to do with the air space or something a roofer was telling me. so here is the result in real life. - we have a room thermostat downstairs for them rads and a room thermostat for the upstairs rooms (bedrooms)

- I can leave our thermostat downstairs quite comfortably at 19 or 20 degrees - the upstairs stat i have on 21'c and there is still a bit of a chill when you walk upstairs. - if i turn the roomstat off downstairs then the heat seems (feels like it) keeps at that temperature for ages - if i turn the room stat off in the upstairs (without cavity wall insulation) the upstairs gets to feeling like a fridge within 20-30 minutes! - to me thats the real test of how good cavity wall insulation is. I would love to see how much cheaper our bills would be if the upstairs could have cavity wall insulation applied - but alas as I say, cannot be done because its not a proper 2 storey house its one of these dormer type ones.

Andy From Sligo · 08-12-2019 1:06am

lalababa wrote: »

Depending on your particular set up, you could put in a small stove and stick the flue out the wall and up...no great outlay&#55356;&#57118;
There are whole books written on the importance of fires, emotional, cultural, sipritual, etc etc. There is a saying 'you could nearly talk to a fire'
All that said an OPEN fire is a bit of a waste these days especially with energy conservation. But a stove with a nice big glass is just as spirit lifting as an open &#55357;&#56613;. As far as fuel & emissions , I would say if you only used wood (from replanting schemes) tis alright until such time as Irelands grid is coming close to 95% renewable. Then there might be an auld debate alright &#55357;&#56898;

what we at , at the moment? - I see a lot of wind turbines across the land

Ubbquittious · 08-12-2019 1:08am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

what we at , at the moment? - I see a lot of wind turbines across the land

less than half. and some new gas power stations being built

Andy From Sligo · 08-12-2019 1:20am

Ubbquittious wrote: »

less than half. and some new gas power stations being built

ah right thats pretty bad alright. - all this power of flowing water in rivers and waterfalls across Ireland and they cannot fit a few generators at them locations and pump it back into the grid ... that's a shame that all that energy going to waste. think i saw a thing in some country they set up generators in the ocean as well and that its doable and that the natural power of the waves were not only providing electric for towns and villages but that they also had a surplus of electricity they sold to their neighbouring country

what is the burning passion for having an open fire?

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