what is the burning passion for having an open fire?

Galwayguy35

air wrote: »

There's a great opportunity for us to lead the way on this in Europe like we did with the smoking ban.
Hopefully the health benefits will be even more far reaching.

Maybe it would be a better idea for the 3 countries who are the biggest polluters on the planet to start making an effort first.

Leo can have a word with Trump, Modi and Xi Jinping and tell them to get their act together instead of making life harder on a few people here trying to keep their house warm.

air

Unfortunately it's ourselves that are directly poisoning the air we breathe.

CO2 emissions and air pollution are two separate issues.
CO2 emissions in China and the USA have no direct health impact on Irish residents.

In any case we consume plenty of products and services produced in each of them so thus bear a share of the responsibility for producing those emissions.

deezell

air wrote: »

Unfortunately it's ourselves that are directly poisoning the air we breathe.

CO2 emissions and air pollution are two separate issues.
CO2 emissions in China and the USA have no direct health impact on Irish residents.

In any case we consume plenty of products and services produced in each of them so thus bear a share of the responsibility for producing those emissions.

I would consider greenhouse gas production a far more serious pollutant of the planet than the occasional bit of soot. Co2 will end the world, no mistake, but I'm ok with that, humans are just a relatively short blip on the life cycle of this planet. Maybe in x million years time newly evolved sentient creatures will be digging up our bones in wonder. Meantime enjoy you fire, clean, polluting or otherwise. The few particles are nothing compared to this co2 chart.

air

I agree, hence my distinction between human health in Ireland and the overall world CO2 problem.

However, even if there was no worldwide CO2 issue, it would still be a good idea to stop burning solid fuels in order to improve local air quality and improve health and life expectancy for all of us.

deezell

Well it's wrong to say that China Russia and US ( 50% of world CO2) have no effect on our health. When the ice caps melt and the seas are sterile and we're nearly all drowned, frozen or starved to death, I won't be blaming turf fires.

Muahahaha

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I'll be looking forward to my local TDs views on this next year when they knock on my door looking for votes.

They might get a free pass on this in urban areas but not in the rest of the country.

From what I gathered from the Newstalk discussion is rather than hand out a nationwide ban on burning smokey coal the government are proposing to hand responsibility over to each council who will decide by vote themselves.

air

deezell wrote: »

Well it's wrong to say that China Russia and US ( 50% of world CO2) have no effect on our health. When the ice caps melt and the seas are sterile and we're nearly all drowned, frozen or starved to death, I won't be blaming turf fires.

Again, I agree, that's why I said "direct" effect on our health.
I'm as concerned about CO2 levels as the next person but the discussion here is more focused on local air quality.

Galwayguy35

Muahahaha wrote: »

From what I gathered from the Newstalk discussion is rather than hand out a nationwide ban on burning smokey coal the government are proposing to hand responsibility over to each council who will decide by vote themselves.

Smart move there by the Government, let the hapless councillers get it in the neck from the voters!

Muahahaha

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Smart move there by the Government, let the hapless councillers get it in the neck from the voters!

Well they would be getting it in the neck from me given I just installed a wood burning stove a few months ago for 1.5k and I've about a ton of logs lying out the back

myshirt

The burning passion for an open fire all started with Alan Reed and Oliver Bates in the movie "Women in Love".

Marvelous scene by the fireside for anyone who hasn't seen it.

Snow Garden

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Maybe it would be a better idea for the 3 countries who are the biggest polluters on the planet to start making an effort first.

Leo can have a word with Trump, Modi and Xi Jinping and tell them to get their act together instead of making life harder on a few people here trying to keep their house warm.

India are now putting their garbage on the moon.

Ubbquittious

The fecking Chinese are still only pretending to be quenching their coal seam fires. More emissions and particles than all of Ireland and several other countries and nobody getting any benefit from them

gozunda

Muahahaha wrote: »

From what I gathered from the Newstalk discussion is rather than hand out a nationwide ban on burning smokey coal the government are proposing to hand responsibility over to each council who will decide by vote themselves.

Oh just wonderful. The local shower of overpaid eejits couldn't even organise a piss up in a brewery. This should be the icing on the cake...

368100

I think it's cosy and adds atmosphere to a room. But I also can't be bothered with the dirt and cleaning of the whole thing, so I bought an electric stove heater and just use it for flame effect.

House is warm enough anyways so don't need to use heater part but it does the job adding atmosphere.....still not as nice as open fire but I'm happy with the compromise :-)

air

Ubbquittious wrote: »

The fecking Chinese are still only pretending to be quenching their coal seam fires. More emissions and particles than all of Ireland and several other countries and nobody getting any benefit from them

Not having any impact on the air quality in Irish towns and cities though, unlike our solid fuel fires.

deezell

air wrote: »

Not having any impact on the air quality......

Except to the speed of it (storm Ophelia, etc), the torenntial moisture content, (ditto), and the temperature of it, ( Ice caps melting, drought, extreme heatwaves). And unlike the seasonal evening nature of open fire emissions, these effects are 24/7.

air

deezell wrote: »

Except to the speed of it (storm Ophelia, etc), the torenntial moisture content, (ditto), and the temperature of it, ( Ice caps melting, drought, extreme heatwaves). And unlike the seasonal evening nature of open fire emissions, these effects are 24/7.

Again, agreed.
But not a lot of point in complaining about things outside of our control, we should improve what we do have control over.
Our poor local air quality is having immediate direct effects on our health and is something that we have the ability to improve.

air

deezell wrote: »

Except to the speed of it (storm Ophelia, etc), the torenntial moisture content, (ditto), and the temperature of it, ( Ice caps melting, drought, extreme heatwaves). And unlike the seasonal evening nature of open fire emissions, these effects are 24/7.

Again, agreed.
But not a lot of point in complaining about things outside of our control, we should improve what we do have control over.
Our poor local air quality is having immediate direct effects on our health and is something that we have the ability to improve.

deezell

air wrote: »

Again, agreed.
But not a lot of point in complaining about things outside of our control, we should improve what we do have control over.
Our poor local air quality is having immediate direct effects on our health and is something that we have the ability to improve.

But this will never happen unless people are incentivised. Our leaders are all stick and no carrot. Co. councillors have even less imagination, pandering as they do to the populist agenda. Here's a suggestion I guarantee would produce results. A program of chimney removal or disabling, to below the roof tiles, paid for in full by the state, and an immediate substantial reduction in property tax for compliant houses. Put their money where their mouths are. Architecturally significant chimneys could be disabled by a simple pouring of lightweight mass concrete filling the flue, not easily reversible. Actually this latter method would be very cost effective to perform with the right mobile concrete pump rig, you could do streets of houses in a day.

air

Ah you lack imagination.
I've great confidence that our government will come up with an elaborate grant scheme that will enrich some vested interests

deezell

air wrote: »

Ah you lack imagination.
I've great confidence that our governments....

I take it you couldn't finish that sentence as your tounge was so firmly wedged in your cheek!

Snow Garden

deezell wrote: »

I would consider greenhouse gas production a far more serious pollutant of the planet than the occasional bit of soot. Co2 will end the world, no mistake, but I'm ok with that, humans are just a relatively short blip on the life cycle of this planet. Maybe in x million years time newly evolved sentient creatures will be digging up our bones in wonder. Meantime enjoy you fire, clean, polluting or otherwise. The few particles are nothing compared to this co2 chart.

I would have thought India would be much higher. Good chart.

deezell

Snow Garden wrote: »

I would have thought India would be much higher. Good chart.

The entry that really bothers me is Saudi Arabia. Same 2% as industrial Germany, but 2.75 times the per capita emissions, and they manufacture relatively sfa. Is it all caused by air conditioning?

air

deezell wrote: »

The entry that really bothers me is Saudi Arabia. Same 2% as industrial Germany, but 2.75 times the per capita emissions, and they manufacture relatively sfa. Is it all caused by air conditioning?

Yes, AC and generating electricity via really inefficient means, gas guzzling cars, water desalination etc.

A part of the world that should be left uninhabited really.

Andy From Sligo

Muahahaha wrote: »

Ban on burning all solid fuels is being discussed on Newstalk now in a minute

i missed that, think they were talking on Today FM last word with Mat cooper - missed that too

Andy From Sligo

air wrote: »

I agree, hence my distinction between human health in Ireland and the overall world CO2 problem.

However, even if there was no worldwide CO2 issue, it would still be a good idea to stop burning solid fuels in order to improve local air quality and improve health and life expectancy for all of us.

indeed - there may not be too much /enough we can do about world pollution but at least we have the power to do something at local level if we just changed our way a little. And it wouldnt mean people have to freeze - at least (with load of people) yes it might mean giving up a bit of tradition and with others not letting their passion ruin other peoples health .. even as i right this , this thing is popping into my head the same with the smoking argument "I will smoke if I want to, its my body and I can do what I like - I dont care that it is harming people around me" - am I right or am I right?

buried

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

indeed - there may not be too much /enough we can do about world pollution but at least we have the power to do something at local level if we just changed our way a little. And it wouldnt mean people have to freeze - at least (with load of people) yes it might mean giving up a bit of tradition and with others not letting their passion ruin other peoples health .. even as i right this , this thing is popping into my head the same with the smoking argument "I will smoke if I want to, its my body and I can do what I like - I dont care that it is harming people around me" - am I right or am I right?

Do you drive a car Andy man?

Andy From Sligo

Muahahaha wrote: »

From what I gathered from the Newstalk discussion is rather than hand out a nationwide ban on burning smokey coal the government are proposing to hand responsibility over to each council who will decide by vote themselves.

a cop out then - councils will buckle under pressure and nothing will change then

Far better for a directive from EU, and then people can just moan that its bloody EU dictating again and over-ruling the Irish government on local issues ... but just do it

Ubbquittious

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

a cop out then - councils will buckle under pressure and nothing will change then

Far better for a directive from EU, and then people can just moan that its bloody EU dictating again and over-ruling the Irish government on local issues ... but just do it

If d'EU marches in we just lay low for a while until it blows over and go back to the way it was.

Andy From Sligo

air wrote: »

Again, I agree, that's why I said "direct" effect on our health.
I'm as concerned about CO2 levels as the next person but the discussion here is more focused on local air quality.

aye thats it. Its a local problem , first and foremost . It might be contributing to the world Co2 problem or it may not but no-one can deny its affecting local people every winter (and cold summer nights when people decide to light a fire) but worse in winter because of the dense fog and mist.