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what is the burning passion for having an open fire?

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    #182
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭lalababa


    charlietheminxx wrote: »
    I have a new build house and I am a little bit sad I'll never have an open fire again. They are just lovely and cosy and give a fantastic glow, always brilliant during power cuts too. There's something soothing about the flicking warm light and the heat and the gentle crackling.

    Depending on your particular set up, you could put in a small stove and stick the flue out the wall and up...no great outlay🌞
    There are whole books written on the importance of fires, emotional, cultural, sipritual, etc etc. There is a saying 'you could nearly talk to a fire'
    All that said an OPEN fire is a bit of a waste these days especially with energy conservation. But a stove with a nice big glass is just as spirit lifting as an open 🔥. As far as fuel & emissions , I would say if you only used wood (from replanting schemes) tis alright until such time as Irelands grid is coming close to 95% renewable. Then there might be an auld debate alright 🙂


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    #183
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    I find the fire cosy and relaxing compared to central heating all the time.
    I've being in houses where there's no fire and whilst they are warm. They don't feel homely in my experience.

    you get used to it after a while .. not first of all if you are used to an open fire takes a bit of time , but all we ever have is oil heating on. the imitation electric fire in our fireplace has a fan heater in the bottom of it but never had to put the fan heater on because there a large double radiator in the living room . that has a thermostat on the radiator that goes to 5 and we turn it down to 3-4 otherwise room too hot.


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    #184
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Moon Indigo wrote: »
    Applied for the SEAI grant and awaiting a surveyor so that may help a bit. Ah I know old house and your right not greatly insulated and truth is I do worry about it but I count myself fortunate that I have heat and home. I also don’t think I can possibly be the only home in Ireland without central heating. I think often of some older person hearing about a ban on fires and them being genuinely worried silly. As do I think of the jobs that will go when it does all happen but times change and sometimes all you can do is change with them. Now to light that fire before I freeze!

    Which grant & works have you applied for? Had a cold home myself and was going to spend a lot of money dry lining it. Didnt get much confidence from any of the companies I had out to quote so in the end I didnt go ahead but instead replaced all the windows with triple glazing and a very low U value. Replaced the front and back doors too and the works have made a huge difference. Rule of thumb now is that I dont need to switch on any heating unless it is 8 degrees or below outside. When I switch the heating off the house will still be warm 2 hours later even when it is 2 or 3 degrees outside. Glad it has worked out as now I dont see any need to insulate it further as its no longer losing heat at the rate it used to.


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    #185
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    There is some amount PM everywhere no getting away from it. On the few days a year that you find it terrible you're better off going to visit your auntie's farm in the countryside and go for a jaunt on one of her horses. Or maybe grab the shotgun and bring home an auld pheasant for the dinner. This will save you from having to add to the problem yourself and much better than stewing at home being bitter about it.

    thats the problem right there, the countryside! - at least towns and cities have a ban on smokey coal and smokey fuel (well I say ban its supposed to be but a lot of the time its not enforced and the law is flouted) - in the countryside and rural areas i dont think the ban extends to there (not yet) . The nationwide ban was supposed to come in effect autumn 2019 .. but its been shelved ... indefinitely it seems at the moment


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    #186
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I couldnt see any political party in power pushing a new law that would ban lighting fires, it would be political suicide for them. Maybe the EU will push it and it will be forced upon us but then it will be widely ignored with little to no enforcement. .

    The ban on smoky coal was first promised by Labour’s Alan Kelly in 2015 .. and was to take place in autumn 2019 - richard bruton stopped it and has shelved it indefinitely now


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    #187
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    air wrote: »
    I agree, it won't happen overnight by any means but it is inevitable that they will be introduced eventually. It's already being talked about for larger European cities.

    I would imagine one off rural properties would be the last to be impacted.

    on off rural properties could be the biggest offenders (more than likely are) - towns and cities more than likely served by mains gas supply and occupants out to work most of the day


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    #188
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Maybe they will eventually come up with some daft contraption of a system that they make you install to suck the particles out, probably a lot easier to do than with a car since theres no movement but I'm not too worried they'll do anything.

    I wonder if a canister fitted to the chimney that acted like a catalytic converter on a car, would help cut down the particles? - it wouldn't cut them out altogether but might reduce the pollution?

    there are (or used to be) available on the market , metal fans that fit to the chimney top flue (held on by a massive jubilee clip) that would 'suck' the fumes up the chimney . you could fit them on 'troublesome' chimneys where the flue wasnt efficient to produce enough updraught or if there was wind blowing down the chimney (and blowing smoke back into the room) - you could get them powered by a 230v ac motor , or operated by the power of the wind only . I think Woodies sold them


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    #189
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Moon Indigo wrote: »
    For heat. The house has no central heating and never had. Rads heat up from the Stanley in the kitchen and open fire in sitting room heats that room. Yes I do know I must get central heating in but financially just unable to afford it at the present time. I love the open fire but really aware that times are changing so will have to get heating put in.

    can you still get oil conversion kits for the ol' stanley ranges these days i wonder. might be cheaper to convert the range in the kitchen than getting a brand new oil boiler maybe - you already have one of the main components in the range already there which is the cast iron boiler part. the second most important thing is the 'burner' for that you could easily get a Riello RDB2 burner for around 400euro i reckon


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    #190
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    I wonder if a canister fitted to the chimney that acted like a catalytic converter on a car, would help cut down the particles? - it wouldn't cut them out altogether but might reduce the pollution?

    there are (or used to be) available on the market , metal fans that fit to the chimney top flue (held on by a massive jubilee clip) that would 'suck' the fumes up the chimney . you could fit them on 'troublesome' chimneys where the flue wasnt efficient to produce enough updraught or if there was wind blowing down the chimney (and blowing smoke back into the room) - you could get them powered by a 230v ac motor , or operated by the power of the wind only . I think Woodies sold them

    A catalytic converter wouldn't work. On a car engine, there are sensors that reduce or increase the fuel as required so the cat doesn't get blocked. Overfuelling destroys cats.

    It would be like putting a cat on a car with a huge old carburettor, and no sensors. It would be fcuked in a day.


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    #191
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Yeah I would imagine at some stage a directive will come down from the EU and that will give the government of the day political cover to introduce a ban. Enforcement though would be a nightmare and I just cant see the Gardai spinning around at night time looking for smoke coming out of peoples chimneys. It would also result in a fair few jobs losses for those who work supplying solid fuels.

    I wonder would just banning coal/peat briquettes and permitting wood only make any tangible difference to the air quality or does it have to be wood too?

    ah yes EU directive - they banned 100w light bulbs and the high powered/wattage vacuum cleaners (or will do soon. we came to terms with that and went to CFL and LED bulbs easy enough - its all about adopting change , not easy with a lot of people but we all have it in our scope as intelligent human beings.

    The Gardai wouldn't be set the task of policing it I shouldn't think ... - i would see it as an 'official' from the local council authority. Come round your house (more than likely after being reported by a neighbour or someone) "hello sir/madam can you tell me do you use your open fire / stove and what fuel do you burn in it?" and then write you out a warning maybe and if they have report of it again will charge you a fine of 150euro or something - hit you in the pocket more like . I reckon thats the way it would go.

    There was talk when this ban came in of burning waste in your garden that the authorities sent out helicopters in the area to spy on people lighting fires in their back yard and issuing fines... I dunno if there was any truth in that but that was a rumour going round anyways ...


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    #192
    Moon Indigo
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭Moon Indigo


    Thanks for this never heard of it to be honest! Will most certainly check it out. If you have any further info can you send it my way? Sounds like a decent plan. The oil covertor for the Stanley That is


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    #193
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    thats the problem right there, the countryside! - at least towns and cities have a ban on smokey coal and smokey fuel (well I say ban its supposed to be but a lot of the time its not enforced and the law is flouted) - in the countryside and rural areas i dont think the ban extends to there (not yet) . The nationwide ban was supposed to come in effect autumn 2019 .. but its been shelved ... indefinitely it seems at the moment

    but if he goes to the countryside he escapes the pollution of the town and in the countryside there isn't enough pollution in any one place to cause a problem.

    I didn't know the smoky coal ban was shelved but if it goes ahead i reckon it would be hard to bring it into the country since I don't know any fella operating a coal mine on the qt


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    #194
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    An Ri rua wrote: »

    Sitting in front of a roaring fire right now. 2 rooms heated, rest of house cool til required.

    ...

    not too cold in the other rooms I hope? (like a fridge in the other rooms but stifling hot in the rooms with a fire in) - that would be one of the worst contribution to damp and mould ever especially if those other colder rooms have no ventilation. - you would want to keep them over rooms hovering around 'normal room temperature' (arond the 20'c mark) because if you open those cold rooms and the heat from the fire'd rooms go into those cold rooms have a look at the beads of condensation shortly afterwards on the windows and wall where it changes temperature so quickly and doesnt have time to adjust slowly (even more visible if the rooms only have single glazed glass windows)


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    #195
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    I wonder if a canister fitted to the chimney that acted like a catalytic converter on a car, would help cut down the particles? - it wouldn't cut them out altogether but might reduce the pollution?

    there are (or used to be) available on the market , metal fans that fit to the chimney top flue (held on by a massive jubilee clip) that would 'suck' the fumes up the chimney . you could fit them on 'troublesome' chimneys where the flue wasnt efficient to produce enough updraught or if there was wind blowing down the chimney (and blowing smoke back into the room) - you could get them powered by a 230v ac motor , or operated by the power of the wind only . I think Woodies sold them

    Those still exist but I don't believe in them. It wouldn't be very 'off the grid' to have to run a 240v electric motor in order to light the stove. Any fella installing one of those is only a pretender..one step away from a fella with a video of a fire on a pixelated screen and an electric heating element

    There are catylitic stoves that send the smoke back in a few times to be reburned and that seems to work fairly well and without consuming electricity but I don't know if it's enough to put a sock in the mouth of the most zealous green party voters


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    #196
    An Ri rua
    Registered Users Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    not too cold in the other rooms I hope? (like a fridge in the other rooms but stifling hot in the rooms with a fire in) - that would be one of the worst contribution to damp and mould ever especially if those other colder rooms have no ventilation. - you would want to keep them over rooms hovering around 'normal room temperature' (arond the 20'c mark) because if you open those cold rooms and the heat from the fire'd rooms go into those cold rooms have a look at the beads of condensation shortly afterwards on the windows and wall where it changes temperature so quickly and doesnt have time to adjust slowly (even more visible if the rooms only have single glazed glass windows)
    This isn't remotely true. Heat the ground floor of a semi and the heat rises up. Air the upstairs rooms daily. Zero damp issues here


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    #197
    Tin Foil Hat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭Tin Foil Hat


    We have gas heating in our house. If it's cold I'll go to the utility room, press a button on a box on the wall, and the house gets warm.
    Thumbs up from me.

    We're in a house in the country tonight. Open fire. I was out in the rain earlier, shoveling filthy black stones into a metal bucket. These were then thrown onto said fire. In the morning I'll have to clean out the smouldering ash.
    Thumbs down. Dickensian bullsh!t.


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    #198
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Moon Indigo wrote: »
    Applied for the SEAI grant and awaiting a surveyor so that may help a bit. Ah I know old house and your right not greatly insulated and truth is I do worry about it but I count myself fortunate that I have heat and home. I also don’t think I can possibly be the only home in Ireland without central heating. I think often of some older person hearing about a ban on fires and them being genuinely worried silly. As do I think of the jobs that will go when it does all happen but times change and sometimes all you can do is change with them. Now to light that fire before I freeze!

    good luck with getting the grant. One of the best things is the lagging up in the loft (above ceiling) I forget what the up to date minimum regs are for loft insulation / rockwell is these days. it used to be only 4mm years ago... I think its 6mm these days minimum , and what they ten to do is like put the 6mm with the 4mm still in situ (in other words when the professionals come in and insulate your loft they dont normally rip out all the old 4mm (pink it used to be) insulation, they normally put the nice thick blanket of 6mm (yellow in colour) on top of the 4mm) - also another thing to note , some older houses have no insulation whatsoever in the loft space, or if they have , over the years it gets all compressed with changes of air temperature and moisture that it effectively ends up getting so compressed that it no longer works in the way loft insulation should work.

    hopefully your grant will stretch to cavity wall insulation if your property is built of breeze-block rather than stone . Really makes a difference. House I am in at the moment has cavity wall insulation downstairs , but upstairs its one of those dormer type house where the windows come out onto the roof. - well the type of house like ours cannot have cavity wall insulation added to the upper floor of the house - something to do with the air space or something a roofer was telling me. so here is the result in real life. - we have a room thermostat downstairs for them rads and a room thermostat for the upstairs rooms (bedrooms)

    - I can leave our thermostat downstairs quite comfortably at 19 or 20 degrees - the upstairs stat i have on 21'c and there is still a bit of a chill when you walk upstairs. - if i turn the roomstat off downstairs then the heat seems (feels like it) keeps at that temperature for ages - if i turn the room stat off in the upstairs (without cavity wall insulation) the upstairs gets to feeling like a fridge within 20-30 minutes! - to me thats the real test of how good cavity wall insulation is. I would love to see how much cheaper our bills would be if the upstairs could have cavity wall insulation applied - but alas as I say, cannot be done because its not a proper 2 storey house its one of these dormer type ones.


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    #199
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    lalababa wrote: »
    Depending on your particular set up, you could put in a small stove and stick the flue out the wall and up...no great outlay��
    There are whole books written on the importance of fires, emotional, cultural, sipritual, etc etc. There is a saying 'you could nearly talk to a fire'
    All that said an OPEN fire is a bit of a waste these days especially with energy conservation. But a stove with a nice big glass is just as spirit lifting as an open ��. As far as fuel & emissions , I would say if you only used wood (from replanting schemes) tis alright until such time as Irelands grid is coming close to 95% renewable. Then there might be an auld debate alright ��

    what we at , at the moment? - I see a lot of wind turbines across the land


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    #200
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    what we at , at the moment? - I see a lot of wind turbines across the land

    less than half. and some new gas power stations being built


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    #201
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    less than half. and some new gas power stations being built

    ah right thats pretty bad alright. - all this power of flowing water in rivers and waterfalls across Ireland and they cannot fit a few generators at them locations and pump it back into the grid ... that's a shame that all that energy going to waste. think i saw a thing in some country they set up generators in the ocean as well and that its doable and that the natural power of the waves were not only providing electric for towns and villages but that they also had a surplus of electricity they sold to their neighbouring country


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    #202
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,731 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Moon Indigo wrote: »
    Thanks for this never heard of it to be honest! Will most certainly check it out. If you have any further info can you send it my way? Sounds like a decent plan. The oil covertor for the Stanley That is

    Could only find a unit like this on adverts but it was 4 years ago being sold .. but it does show that there is/was a unit for converting a solid fuel stanley range to oil :

    https://www.adverts.ie/stoves/oil-burner-to-convert-stanley-range-from-solid-fuel-to-oil/7709589

    the Riello RDB2 burner €300 - if a heating tech knew what they were (safely) doing i would be pretty sure they would find a way of fitting this neat compact riello burner inside your existing stanley range setup. - however its designed for an outdoor boiler unit so may be quite noisy for an indoor range , especially if it in a kitchen

    https://www.plumbingproducts.ie/oil-burners-ireland/3018-riello-rdb-21-oil-burner.html

    and a thread on boards , although it not very busy on it but here it is anyway.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63470493&postcount=1

    the general concensus on their them saying keep it solid fuel and fit an outside boiler but then not much use if your on a budget


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    #203
    Moon Indigo
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭Moon Indigo


    I just sincerely want to say thank you to everyone I was really honestly worried about having no central heating. You kind people have helped me tons knowing there’s is a slight possibility of a Stanley conversion. Thank you and hey sorry if I took over too much space on this thread. I’m going to test my luck.. if anyone in Dublin/Kildare does or knows of someone who does these stanley to oil conversions (and is not a cowboy!) Let me know. Thank you once again I mean that


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    #204
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,927 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    The ban on smoky coal was first promised by Labour’s Alan Kelly in 2015 .. and was to take place in autumn 2019 - richard bruton stopped it and has shelved it indefinitely now

    Good. Getting bloody sick of this nanny state, taxing and banning. What's next? Cattle? Save the planet me hole. It's just a money grab.

    If they truly wanted to go green then go for it. Use proper joined up thinking. Help people to go green (Not just the middle class) Proper Heating and insulation grants. Proper cycle ways. Use the huge amounts of water we get for power.

    We moved away from the open hearth and now have a multi fuel stove. Much more efficient.

    Apologies for the rant but tax tax tax or ban ban ban is not the way forward.


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    #205
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I like open fires, but the hassle of lighting and cleaning them would put me off using it. Gas fires might not be the same but the convenience of flicking a switch makes up for that imo. Electric fake fires can do one though, I've never seen a convincing one.


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    #206
    fallen01angel
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭fallen01angel


    When I bought my house there was a horrible gas insert stove fitted, which I absolutely hated,it gave off an awful dry heat. Put up with it for a couple of yrs, but as soon as I could afford it, got it ripped out and replaced with a big fronted wood burning stove,now I throw in a fire lighter,couple of bits of kindling and off she goes. The wood burns away to absolute dust,so easy to clean and makes it so cosy on the cold dark nights. No way would I be without it.


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    #207
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,525 ✭✭✭deezell


    Moon Indigo wrote: »
    I just sincerely want to say thank you to everyone I was really honestly worried about having no central heating. You kind people have helped me tons knowing there’s is a slight possibility of a Stanley conversion. Thank you and hey sorry if I took over too much space on this thread. I’m going to test my luck.. if anyone in Dublin/Kildare does or knows of someone who does these stanley to oil conversions (and is not a cowboy!) Let me know. Thank you once again I mean that
    Forget about converting a Stanley range to oil. It's a hugely inefficient job. The boiler surface in the range is completely unsuitable for heat transfer from an oil burner, as it was designed to absorb heat from the higher temperature smaller solid core of burning stove coal, logs, briquettes. You might as well try to roast a chicken with a hair dryer.
    You will very quickly find that the amount of oil you use is way more than is required if you had a proper oil boiler. Even if you could find the particular burner that used to be fitted (I know of one sitting idle 15 years), the whole job could cost you well over a €1000, not counting oil tank and installation. Your range would most likely stink of oil fumes, and your radiators would struggle to heat, while your oil usage would bankrupt you.
    Get an efficient condensor boiler fitted, scrap, or keep the range if you like the feel and smell of it in the room, boil the kettle and the spuds on it, but don't expect it to become a central heating boiler.


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    #208
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,525 ✭✭✭deezell


    OldRio wrote: »
    Good. Getting bloody sick of this nanny state....
    ....Apologies for the rant but tax tax tax or ban ban ban is not the way forward.

    Haha, but since the foundation of the state it's been successive governments' core principles. Banning is in our genes, especially if it's something in the least way pleasurable. As for taxing.....


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    #209
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,280 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    deezell wrote: »
    Forget about converting a Stanley range to oil. It's a hugely inefficient job. The boiler surface in the range is completely unsuitable for heat transfer from an oil burner, as it was designed to absorb heat from the higher temperature smaller solid core of burning stove coal, logs, briquettes. You might as well try to roast a chicken with a hair dryer.
    You will very quickly find that the amount of oil you use is way more than is required if you had a proper oil boiler. Even if you could find the particular burner that used to be fitted (I know of one sitting idle 15 years), the whole job could cost you well over a €1000, not counting oil tank and installation. Your range would most likely stink of oil fumes, and your radiators would struggle to heat, while your oil usage would bankrupt you.
    Get an efficient condensor boiler fitted, scrap, or keep the range if you like the feel and smell of it in the room, boil the kettle and the spuds on it, but don't expect it to become a central heating boiler.

    Yes a condenser boiler will be a far better prospect.
    Oil usage, reliability better. No oil smells in the house etc.


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    #210
    davedonie
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭davedonie


    I'd be lost without the open fire. I've no central heating, would love an insert stove but cant affors one. I only light it when it's so cold that the dogs (my hot water bottles, love em) are looking cold themselves.
    I have a fan heater but only use it for 20 mins to take nip out of the air.


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    #211
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Warm, cosy, beautiful, what is not to like ? :)


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