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Liam Neeson has landed himself in a spot of trouble

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    #122
    Ariadne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Ariadne


    The perpetually offended annoy me no end. However, I'm just thinking "Liam, why did you say that? Sure, you thought it and you realise it's wrong now but keep that sh1t to yourself". I realise he didn't hurt anyone and he knows that he was wrong but he was spoiling for a fight with any black man because his friend was raped by a black man. If I read about a black celebrity saying that his friend was raped by a white man and he went out wanting to kill any white man, I wouldn't be a bit impressed and I'd find it racist. Just a weird thing to say.


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    #123
    GAA Beo
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 195 ✭✭GAA Beo


    Succubus_ wrote: »
    The perpetually offended annoy me no end. However, I'm just thinking "Liam, why did you say that? Sure, you thought it and you realise it's wrong now but keep that sh1t to yourself". I realise he didn't hurt anyone and he knows that he was wrong but he was spoiling for a fight with any black man because his friend was raped by a black man. If I read about a black celebrity saying that his friend was raped by a white man and he went out wanting to kill any white man, I wouldn't be a bit impressed and I'd find it racist. Just a weird thing to say.
    I agree, I do think it's a bit much. I'm more thinking why would he say it, surely he knew saying such a thing wouldn't go down well. The yanks that are chomping at the bit to give Irish people abuse can **** off though.


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    #124
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,612 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Anybody calling him racist or shouting him down over this is an idiot.
    The man had a moment after something horrific happened to somebody very close to him. It's human, he felt ashamed at how he acted and didn't hurt anybody.
    Imo it's a good thing that he is sharing this, it may give others who are feeling this way pause for thought.


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    #125
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Had the rapist being a fat guy he'd have waited out side a GYM waiting for a fat guy to have a go so he could beat his fat ass.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyh_GFDqrFM


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    #126
    pgj2015
    Registered Users Posts: 8,953 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    the scary thing is, if someone had a go at him in the weeks after his friend was raped, would he have beat them to death? he would be in jail now most likely.


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    #127
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    A cow kicked me one time, in a moment of madness I nearly bundled the whole lot of them in a lorry and headed for the meat factory!
    I get a sense that thinking of it and actually walking around with a cosh hoping it would happen, that some "black bastard" would get aggressive with him and that at that time he would have beat his brains out or some such, was just an overselling of the story, an analogy taken too far.
    The papers are plastered with it today, I think if Liam could turn back the clock he wouldn't have said it.
    Cue a late late show appearance to explain himself.
    Unlike Peter Casey, I'd say Tubbers will lean on Neesons side, a shur it was only about "black bastards", they're not as important as our cultural travellers.


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    #128
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    the scary thing is, if someone had a go at him in the weeks after his friend was raped, would he have beat them to death? he would be in jail now most likely.
    That's the thing, instead of Liam Neeson the beloved actor, we could have had Liam Neeson the racist murderer if someone had just looked at him funny


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    #129
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    People seem to be of the opinion that condemning Neeson's desire for "revenge" on anyone sharing the same skin colour as a rapist is the same as condoning the rape and in a way that's scarier.


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    #130
    PhiloCypher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,388 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    the scary thing is, if someone had a go at him in the weeks after his friend was raped, would he have beat them to death? he would be in jail now most likely.

    Well he does have a particular set of skills

    * I'll get my coat *

    In all seriousness tho, it was an incredibly stupid thing for him to say given his profile. If he had just said , he had gone out for a week after looking for the actual rapist to deal out some vigilante justice like the character he plays in Cold Pursuit he'd have been fine. A lot of people would have related to that, but saying he was going to kill any black bastard who looked at him funny was never going to go down well .

    What I hope Liam was speaking to in his hamfisted way, is the primitive way in which trauma can affect someone and cause them to lash out at an innocent party or even a loved one. It's not logical, it's not acceptable, it's just a traumatised mind trying to process grief and lashing out .


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    #131
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    People seem to be of the opinion that condemning Neeson's desire for "revenge" on anyone sharing the same skin colour as a rapist is the same as condoning the rape and in a way that's scarier.
    Ah that's just some reregs


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    #132
    Sorry about that
    Closed Accounts Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Sorry about that


    I just feel so sorry for him. He's admitted to having bad thoughts at a bad time, a very long time ago. Did he hurt anyone? No. And probably wouldn't have either. Look, he was much younger, full of bravado and unable to actually do anything to help the victim.

    Journalist is the only one to get anything out of this, and Neeson's career could be over. Never trust a journalist kids!


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    #133
    valoren
    Registered Users Posts: 5,458 ✭✭✭valoren


    He had it coming to be honest. He was way too specific with the details.

    Version 1 - "My friend was raped and I was so angry, I carried a cosh around hoping for someone to start with me so I could beat the **** out of them. Thankfully I realised I had gone absolutely nuts and got a grip on myself before I hurt someone"

    Everyone thinks "Yeah, a friend getting raped would do that to you". We can empathise with Liam.


    Version 2 - "My friend was raped. I asked her what he looked like. She said he was black. I was so angry, I carried a cosh around hoping for some black bastard to start with me so I could beat the **** out of them. Thankfully I realised I had gone absolutely nuts and got a grip on myself before I hurt someone"

    Same core story in both versions but version 2 is way too specific and just dynamite in today's media.


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    #134
    SoundsRight
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 408 ✭✭SoundsRight


    Sorry about that wrote: »
    I just feel so sorry for him. He's admitted to having bad thoughts at a bad time, a very long time ago. Did he hurt anyone? No. And probably wouldn't have either. Look, he was much younger, full of bravado and unable to actually do anything to help the victim.

    Journalist is the only one to get anything out of this, and Neeson's career could be over. Never trust a journalist kids!

    He's 66, so realistically his career is already winding down. He's been through the worst horror imaginable when his wife died suddenly, so I doubt he'll be losing any sleep over this.


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    #135
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Feisar wrote: »
    Seems like thoughts are now crimes.

    Wasn't there always people who wanted that though? There are some old examples of people into thought crime. Jesus for example espoused positions on what was essentially thought crime too for example. Can not remember the exact quote but something about building an equivalency between lusting in your mind and having committed adultery.

    I can tell you I have committed a _lot_ of adultery over the years under that standard.


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    #136
    Ariadne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Ariadne


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Wasn't there always people who wanted that though? There are some old examples of people into thought crime. Jesus for example espoused positions on what was essentially thought crime too for example. Can not remember the exact quote but something about building an equivalency between lusting in your mind and having committed adultery.

    I can tell you I have committed a _lot_ of adultery over the years under that standard.

    Though shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife.
    Though shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods.

    Grand, so no lusting after anyone ever or envying something that they have. Seems possible :p


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    #137
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Succubus_ wrote: »
    Though shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife.
    Though shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods.

    Grand, so no lusting after anyone ever or envying something that they have. Seems possible :p

    Into the cave for 12 hours a day meditation for us so!

    "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh. on a woman to lust after her hath committed. adultery with her already in his heart."

    Think that was the one I was thinking of.


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    #138
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Into the cave for 12 hours a day meditation for us so!

    "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh. on a woman to lust after her hath committed. adultery with her already in his heart."

    Think that was the one I was thinking of.

    I could covet my neighbours wife, I do, I had the pleasure a couple of times too, but I'm fcking not stupid enough to tell him.


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    #139
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,151 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    John Barnes has quite angrily defended Neeson, saying what and how he said it has been misrepresented and it's now become a witch hunt because of a soundbite, rather than analysing the whole point of his story, i.e. the shame on what he felt, how black people were stereotyped and how he fell into believing that stereotype, and his realisation of how wrong it is.


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    #140
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    I hear your a racist now liam.

    funny how he was carrying a weapon hoping a black man would confront him, so he could then stab them to death. exactly what his character in Taken would do. imagine if he didn't tip the black guy in the toliets after getting a paper towel handed to him, the guy says thanks sarcastically and then liam beats him to death.


    Damn it, beat me to it.
    Cant understand why he would say that, even with the hindsight part, so 40 years ago or so in Northern Ireland?? how many Black people were in NI then? Regardless if this happened in NI or not, Im a bit suspicious of the story, think he has dropped himself right in it.
    Maybe its his age, or that actors aren't the font of knowledge, experience, wisdom that movies portray them to be. They're just people, many are idiots I'm reasonably convinced, especially when they believe their own hype.
    I think thats enough Taken style movies for Liam.
    If this was some kind of skit, he's taken it too far (to not get the backlash).

    Glad Im not on twitter, I wont be recounting in 40 years how I wanted to kill twitter users though,


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    #141
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    I'm willing to try and put myself into someone else's shoes, and I can understand that someone would be extremely angry if someone close to them were raped and I could understand someone having a flash of irrationality. However, he said he "went up and down areas with a cosh, hoping I'd be approached by somebody" and did so with the aim of possibly killing someone based purely on their race and this went on for a week?

    Unfortunately, as I do think the guy is a talented actor, I just cannot get my head around that. It's beyond the beyonds for me and I can't really place it in cultural context of a bygone era, 30 years ago was 1988. The world wasn't THAT different on issues of race. You're not talking 1950s Alabama.

    I'm glad his logical filter kicked in and he didn't do it and regrets it, but it's still something that just leaves me cold. I just cannot get my head around how anyone would do that or think like that. There's nothing snowflakey about my saying I'm genuinely shocked.

    I mean, if you put that into the context of say an English person who'd had a friend who'd been say caught up in a Northern Irish terrorism incident in England, who then decided to plot a revenge attack against anyone with a Northern Irish accent, how would it seem to us?


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    #142
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Hurrache wrote: »
    John Barnes has quite angrily defended Neeson, saying what and how he said it has been misrepresented and it's now become a witch hunt because of a soundbite, rather than analysing the whole point of his story, i.e. the shame on what he felt, how black people were stereotyped and how he fell into believing that stereotype, and his realisation of how wrong it is.

    In the story I read, Neeson expressed regret about seeking revenge because revenge only leads to more revenge, there was no mention of regret for his targeting of a specific race, which I think also rubbed people up the wrong way. Looking at the Barnes quotes, he's interpreting Neeson's words differently from how I would interpret them.


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    #143
    jiltloop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    Edward M wrote: »
    Just another actor who thinks they're super intellectually intelligent and that if they say something people will consider it as such, reality is that without a script they haven't really go a clue about real life and what's acceptable and what's not.
    Mindless killing is acceptable in action moves, but real life is somewhat more sobering.

    I don't think you've read the article or actually understand what the thread is about.


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    #144
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    jiltloop wrote: »
    I don't think you've read the article or actually understand what the thread is about.

    Why, is that important?


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    #145
    Standman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    ... Kinda like when the father of a victim of Larry Nassar lunged at him in court last year. It was a wrong action but a perfectly understandable one.

    This came to mind for me as well.

    It's understandable, yeah - but when I saw that, I wished he'd have a bit of understanding for his traumatised daughter who was standing next to him and had to go through even more anguish because he couldn't control himself.


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    #146
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    I'm willing to try and put myself into someone else's shoes, and I can understand that someone would be extremely angry if someone close to them were raped and I could understand someone having a flash of irrationality. However, he said he "went up and down areas with a cosh, hoping I'd be approached by somebody" and did so with the aim of possibly killing someone based purely on their race and this went on for a week?

    Unfortunately, as I do think the guy is a talented actor, I just cannot get my head around that. It's beyond the beyonds for me and I can't really place it in cultural context of a bygone era, 30 years ago was 1988. The world wasn't THAT different on issues of race. You're not talking 1950s Alabama.

    I'm glad his logical filter kicked in and he didn't do it and regrets it, but it's still something that just leaves me cold. I just cannot get my head around how anyone would do that or think like that. There's nothing snowflakey about my saying I'm genuinely shocked.

    I mean, if you put that into the context of say an English person who'd had a friend who'd been say caught up in a Northern Irish terrorism incident in England, who then decided to plot a revenge attack against anyone with a Northern Irish accent, how would it seem to us?

    21 years ago, that was normal.


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    #147
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    The example of a media outrage, as opposed to a public outrage. The general public don't care but media are attempting to make it a big story.

    The enemy of the people.


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    #148
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    21 years ago, that was normal.

    I don't know where you were living 21 years ago, but it certainly wasn't normal.


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    #149
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    I mean, if you put that into the context of say an English person who'd had a friend who'd been say caught up in a Northern Irish terrorism incident in England, who then decided to plot a revenge attack against anyone with a Northern Irish accent, how would it seem to us?
    Isn't that exactly what was happening in Northern Ireland though? Protestant is murder by Catholics. Other Catholics are murdered by protestants in revenge. Other protestants are murdered by Catholics in revenge.

    The rapist being black is a secondary matter here really. Tribalism is inbuilt; we identify ourselves as part of a tribe, and people outside that tribe as "others".

    And as so frequently happens, other "tribes" are often held to account for the actions of an individual - whether that other "tribe" even exists.

    If Neeson had admitted that he spent a week hoping for a Proddie to start on him so he could beat one to death after the murder of a catholic friend, then we'd be say, "Whoa, Neeson was an angry kid", but we'd understand it. We'd know the context.

    The fact that the anger was directed towards black people rather than proddies, makes no difference to the context. He'd grown up in a heavily segregated and tribalised environment and sought to exact revenge against another tribe for a crime done against a member of his. Very normal feelings. His method of expressing them, extreme. But understandble - testosterone is a hell of a drug.

    Have to give him kudos for laying it out honestly. He could have substituted the people in his story for proddies and catholics. But he didn't.

    Of course, you have a pile of clueless idiots now talking about "white privilege" and normalising of anti-black violence, despite the fact that these concepts are irrelevant to the context.


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    #150
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    I wonder if it actually has something to do with his Northern Ireland troubles upbringing of categorising the world as "us" and "them". It is exactly the kind of thinking that drove the worst atrocities up there.

    If it were a discussion about attacking catholics or protestants, I'd still take a very dim view of it.


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    #151
    MPFGLB
    Registered Users Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭MPFGLB


    ....if we are quoting the bible here is one

    Let him without sin cast the first stone

    I know many people have bad thoughts towards others sometimes in times of stress or hurt.Who hasn't wanted to 'kill' someone who hurt you or a loved one badly, for a short time until the pain passes, or even in this case transfer that hurt in your mind onto a stereotype of the perpetrator But almost everyone doesn't act on it and neither did Liam Neeson

    That he admitted to his darkest feeling is very honest and should be part of the debate on how we stereotype people both consciously and unconsciously. I dont think he should back down from his comments because they are the truth and acknowledge who he was many years ago and how he mastered his feelings and moved on
    But i am guessing the way so many people in todays society have such outrageous indignation and condemn everyone and everything that veers from their views on what is 'right' or even what is seen to be right ...without thought for how people can be young and foolish and when we know better we do better ..Liam Neeson has just ruined his career

    As the man said..most people cant handle the truth


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