Should nuts in school be banned for the small % who have "nut allergies"

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-10-2019 8:44pm

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

A much higher risk of getting hit by a car then dying of anawhatever shock as a percentage of the general population. Thousand of people have died from car accidents, people get into cars everyday. A more accurate analogy would be asking everybody in the office not to drive to work because one of the employees has an allergy to cars.

This post is a work of art in its naked stupidity.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 09-10-2019 8:44pm

Treppen wrote: »

No problem with getting school to go nut free.

We did it and they sky didn't fall in.

Kids got to stay alive.... and got and education too. Nobody was put out... Except idiots on here I suppose.

I've got a surprise for you... The school isn't nut free.

FunLover18 · 09-10-2019 8:45pm

Two sides of this argument;

1. My child could die

2. My child likes nuts

I know which one I find more compelling.

I remember there was a huge backlash against the Peter Rabbit film a few years back because it had a character with a strawberry allergy having strawberries thrown at him and it was portrayed as comical hijinks, idiotic to show that kind of thing in such a manner in a kid's film.

Lesalare · 09-10-2019 8:46pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Anaphylactic shock . I had two and be very grateful you had not

My sister developed this in her 40's if she gets a wasp sting. She has to carry an Epipen with her now all the time.

It's made me so paranoid now around wasps as when I was a kid I had no issues at all with their stings. Seemingly it can develop out of the blue at any stage of your life.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 09-10-2019 8:47pm

FunLover18 wrote: »

Two sides of this argument;

1. My child could die

2. My child likes nuts

I know which one I find more compelling.

I remember there was a huge backlash against the Peter Rabbit film a few years back because it had a character with a strawberry allergy having strawberries thrown at him and it was portrayed as comical hijinks, idiotic to show that kind of thing in such a manner in a kid's film.

Two sides of the arguement:

1. My child could die if they go to school

2. I keep my child at home

CJhaughey · 09-10-2019 8:49pm

Lesalare wrote: »

My sister developed this in her 40's if she gets a wasp sting. She has to carry an Epipen with her now all the time.

It's made me so paranoid now around wasps as when I was a kid I had no issues at all with their stings. Seemingly it can develop out of the blue at any stage of your life.

I know a Doctor who has a Latex allergy, sounds funny but lots of medical gear is made of latex, surgical tubing, gloves etc.
Trying to save someone's life but having an attack is no joke.

NIMAN · 09-10-2019 8:50pm

Lesalare wrote: »

I was on a flight from the US to Dub recently and they said at the very start no one was to even open a packet of nuts on the plane, they repeated it about 7 times. I have no idea some people are that badly effected. It must be terrible to suffer from this.

I think the danger can be amplified on a plane as the air is recirculated.

So a person eating peanuts at the top of the plane could in theory affect someone sitting at the back.

It must be a torture for sure. But if you know having that packet of peanuts could kill someone, would you really need them that badly?

Lesalare · 09-10-2019 8:52pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I think the danger can be amplified on a plane as the air is recirculated.

So a person eating peanuts at the top of the plane could in theory affect someone sitting at the back.

It must be a torture for sure. But if you know having that packet of peanuts could kill someone, would you really need them that badly?

Hey, no I get that. Re. the air etc...

I just felt bad for the person with the condition has to go through that on a daily basis. Really opened my eyes how constricting and worrying it must be for them.

Dravokivich · 09-10-2019 8:52pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I think the danger can be amplified on a plane as the air is recirculated.

So a person eating peanuts at the top of the plane could in theory affect someone sitting at the back.

It must be a torture for sure. But if you know having that packet of peanuts could kill someone, would you really need them that badly?

I dont think they were complaining.

NIMAN · 09-10-2019 8:53pm

I have had 2 shocks in my life, and they are scary. And I don't even think mine were bad.

I spoke to my GP about it, and I think that I might have been a little flippant about it, as he kinda got a bit angry with me about it and told me to take it very seriously. He then proceed to tell me he lost a friend to it, he was out fishing on a boat and had no epipen with him, and died.

That made me take it seriously.

And unfortunately for me, he said that once you start to develop allergies, you can get them to anything. So although I have been stung many times in my life, he said the next one might shock me, or I could develop an allergy to peanuts for example.

SusieBlue · 09-10-2019 8:54pm

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

A much higher risk of getting hit by a car then dying of anawhatever shock as a percentage of the general population. Thousand of people have died from car accidents, people get into cars everyday. A more accurate analogy would be asking everybody in the office not to drive to work because one of the employees has an allergy to cars.

Your ignorance is absolutely astounding.
People die horrible, terrifying deaths every day from anaphylactic shock.

I’ve seen someone go through it and the only thing I can liken it to is watching someone suffocate in plain sight, you can’t help them, they can’t help themselves, it’s so scary.
And the more they panic the less they can breathe and the faster they’ll black out and potentially die.

Maybe educate yourself on how serious and life threatening conditions like this are before throwing about such off hand assumptions about their severity.
So disappointing to see.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 09-10-2019 8:57pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I think the danger can be amplified on a plane as the air is recirculated.

So a person eating peanuts at the top of the plane could in theory affect someone sitting at the back.

It must be a torture for sure. But if you know having that packet of peanuts could kill someone, would you really need them that badly?

Worked with a woman who used to break out in huge hives if someone in the large office building ate nuts. Even if they were well away from her, so maybe could be down to the same thing with air conditioning and recirculating air.

I sat near to her and knew about her allergy but not everyone did. She had an epi pen and I suggested she maybe have a memo sent around to have a no nut policy (admittedly I was nervous in case something happened to her) but she was too embarrassed and didn't want to make a fuss.

I would not have liked to see what her allergic reaction was like if she touched or worse ate a nut because it was quite severe just from airborne particles.

Kathnora · 09-10-2019 8:59pm

I was on a plane in South America (internal flight) where they served nuts as a free snack to all passengers. Not a word about allergies. I don't how the airline got away withe doing that.

Zaph · 09-10-2019 9:00pm

Lesalare wrote: »

My sister developed this in her 40's if she gets a wasp sting. She has to carry an Epipen with her now all the time.

It's made me so paranoid now around wasps as when I was a kid I had no issues at all with their stings. Seemingly it can develop out of the blue at any stage of your life.

Yep, happened me, I developed a nut allergy a few years ago despite having eaten them all my life up to that point. Fortunately my allergy is mild enough, it's uncomfortable if I have a reaction as various parts of me swell or itch, but thankfully it's not life-threatening and I don't need to carry an epipen. But I will say that even a mild allergy is bloody unpleasant, so I wouldn't wish a full blown anaphylactic episode on my worst enemy. Anyone getting outraged about not being able to have a packet of nuts for a while so another person doesn't come to harm should take a good look at themselves in the mirror, because that's what a dick looks like.

Montage of Feck · 09-10-2019 9:01pm

Corkgirl18 wrote: »

Our school is nut free.
Last year we received first aid training in how to use Epipens and Jextpens just in case we had to use them.
A few kids have airborne nut allergies so nuts are a big no-no.

Airborne nut allergies, wtf? I went through all levels of school I didn't know a single person with any major allergy, so to me to hear that someone could have a serious immune response to an airborne food particle is literally nuts to me.

There is something seriously wrong with western society if this is now becoming a thing in a relatively short period of time. To me its due to a lack of exposure of the immune system to the environment. Banning nuts will just add to the problem of kids developing deficient immune systems.

NIMAN · 09-10-2019 9:15pm

Kathnora wrote: »

I was on a plane in South America (internal flight) where they served nuts as a free snack to all passengers. Not a word about allergies. I don't how the airline got away withe doing that.

I think rather than ban nuts on all flights, airlines prefer to do it just on flights where perhaps a passenger alerts them to their allergy.

Peatys · 09-10-2019 9:22pm

cnocbui wrote: »

If a child at a school has an allergy to eggs, should all egg products be banned?

Nuts.. not eggs.

AulWan · 09-10-2019 9:22pm

Poll Options are a little confusing.

I would have no problem with a complete ban on nuts and nut products when there is a child with a diagnosed allergy in the school.

But if there are no children with nut allergies, then some nuts / nut products shouldn't be an issue.

So YES - full ban where there is a child with a nut allergy

But NO - against a full ban on nuts just as a general policy.

Peatys · 09-10-2019 9:24pm

Kathnora wrote: »

I was on a plane in South America (internal flight) where they served nuts as a free snack to all passengers. Not a word about allergies. I don't how the airline got away withe doing that.

We were flying to States and before take off, flight crew came on the intercom and said no nuts or good from menu with nuts listed would be served as they received prior notice from a passenger.

Raconteuse · 09-10-2019 9:39pm

road_high wrote: »

How we survived primary school from the late 80s to mid 90s without any of this namby pamby nanny state stuff is still a mystery to me. Allergies etc seemed to be almost unheard of

Well then they must not exist so.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Billions of Monkey nuts handed out at Halloween years ago

Nobody died

Obviously you haven't seen a child go into anaphylactic shock. You'd change your tune if you did. It could kill people.

Very selfish too - "oh it doesn't happen to my loved ones, therefore it doesn't exist." Medical research uncovers new things all the time - just because something was not known about or just because it's rare, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Nanny state whatever is irrelevant.

And if it's the parents' fault (explain how please) then how come not every child in the family has it.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 09-10-2019 9:39pm

Elora Wide Stack wrote: »

I'm sure parents must worry but you have to balance the risk for the sake of the kid.

If the school has a no nuts policy then you have a small peace of mind that they will monitor it and have a degree of control over things.

The child and other children will be mindful of the allergy too as well as staff and severe allergy sufferers will probably have access to an epipen just in case.

Just because they have an allergy doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to live a relatively normal life and go to school and have friends just like everyone else. Allowing no nuts is a pretty minor thing to let a kid have a normal childhood.

Yes something could happen but the risk is minimised through all of this.

So what happens when they are outside school, are you going to try and control every other environment that the kids encounter.

Classic bulldoze parenting. Bulldoze everything out of my child's way and make other people adjust to my child's circumstances.

What rare condition do we need to placate to next. And it's always parents who had their kids in their 40's who are so precious about their kids.

Raconteuse · 09-10-2019 9:41pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Airborne nut allergies, wtf? I went through all levels of school I didn't know a single person with any major allergy, so to me to hear that someone could have a serious immune response to an airborne food particle is literally nuts to me.

There is something seriously wrong with western society if this is now becoming a thing in a relatively short period of time. To me its due to a lack of exposure of the immune system to the environment.

Read about airborne nut allergies years ago.

Unreal selfishness on this thread.

NIMAN · 09-10-2019 9:42pm

Remember that little girl who died on a main shopping area of Dublin a few years back.

She'd eat at a local restaurant that said there was no peanuts in a sauce, and there was.

Her mum asked a chemist for an epipen and they refused.

She died on the street.

AulWan · 09-10-2019 9:45pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Remember that little girl who died on a main shopping area of Dublin a few years back.

Her mum asked a chemist for an epipen and they refused.

She died on the street.

She died after eating accidentally eating a satay dish in a chinese restaurant without knowing what it contained.

Very tragic death, she was only 14.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-10-2019 9:46pm

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

So what happens when they are outside school, are you going to try and control every other environment that the kids encounter.

Classic bulldoze parenting. Bulldoze everything out of my child's way and make other people adjust to my child's circumstances.

What rare condition do we need to placate to next. And it's always parents who had their kids in their 40's who are so precious about their kids.

Those circumstances could be death. Damn straight those parents should bulldoze. Who cares if it’s a rare condition if it’s deadly?

Does the rareness offset the high risk of fatality? What’s the relevance?

Princess Calla · 09-10-2019 9:46pm

AulWan wrote: »

Poll Options are a little confusing.

I would have no problem with a complete ban on nuts and nut products when there is a child with a diagnosed allergy in the school.

But if there are no children with nut allergies, then some nuts / nut products shouldn't be an issue.

So YES - full ban where there is a child with a nut allergy

But NO - against a full ban on nuts just as a general policy.

Yeah but an evolving policy is confusing at best.

It's safer for all concerned if it's just a set policy.

We didn't know ours had an allergy until they had a reaction, there is no history in either of our families. Their minder in crèche got an awful fright. I wouldn't wish that on anyone in charge of another person's child, even if it is their job.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 09-10-2019 9:47pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Remember that little girl who died on a main shopping area of Dublin a few years back.

Her mum asked a chemist for an epipen and they refused.

She died on the street.

Terrible case, but the law around that has changed now as a result, so sad and unnecessary.

Raconteuse · 09-10-2019 9:47pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Remember that little girl who died on a main shopping area of Dublin a few years back.

Her mum asked a chemist for an epipen and they refused.

She died on the street.

No I don't remember that.

What I remember is a girl who was 14. She had a meal with peanuts in it and neither she nor her mother had an epi-pen. Her mother went into a chemist, not panicking, asking if there was any chance she could get an epi-pen over the counter. The chemist wasn't able to do this.

Her death was pinned on the chemist which was a disgrace - that poor man or woman.

But it does illustrate that a peanut allergy can kill, no matter what moronic things are said here to downplay that reality.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-10-2019 9:48pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Remember that little girl who died on a main shopping area of Dublin a few years back.

She'd eat at a local restaurant that said there was no peanuts in a sauce, and there was.

Her mum asked a chemist for an epipen and they refused.

She died on the street.

Yeah, that was heartbreaking. And controversial if I remember rightly.

c.p.w.g.w · 09-10-2019 9:49pm

If the government removed the the advice for pregnant women not to eat nuts during pregnancy the allergy rates would drop way down.

Allergy rates are on the increase in the countries that continue to advice expecting mothers to avoid nuts during pregnancy.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/270605.php

But my SIL & Sister were both told to avoid anything with peanuts, despite the fact neither had an allergy to nuts or peanuts. In the early 00's i know if was a massive campaign for pregnant women to avoid peanuts while pregnant.*

*In the States

EmmetSpiceland · 09-10-2019 9:50pm

AulWan wrote: »

She died after eating accidentally eating a satay dish in a chinese restaurant without knowing what it contained.

Very tragic death, she was only 14.

Well, that and the fact the jobsworth chemist refused to handover an epi-pen that would have saved her life.

c.p.w.g.w · 09-10-2019 9:50pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yeah, that was heartbreaking. And controversial if I remember rightly.

But why didn't the mother have the pen with her...chemists can't just give out one without the script...unfortunately the parents share the blame on their daughters death along with the restaurant

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 09-10-2019 9:51pm

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

So what happens when they are outside school, are you going to try and control every other environment that the kids encounter.

Classic bulldoze parenting. Bulldoze everything out of my child's way and make other people adjust to my child's circumstances.

What rare condition do we need to placate to next. And it's always parents who had their kids in their 40's who are so precious about their kids.

Well I'd imagine they will just do what they can to minimise the risks, that's all they can do.

Make people aware of the allergy and its severity, educate. They would know all too well to be careful about where and what is eaten, educate the child as much as possible until they are old enough to take responsibility themselves.

I would never offer anyone elses child something to eat without checking first. Chances are if there's an allergy you will already know about it but it doesn't do any harm to check first.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-10-2019 9:52pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

If the government removed the the advice for pregnant women not to eat nuts during pregnancy the allergy rates would drop way down.

Allergy rates are on the increase in the countries that continue to advice expecting mothers to avoid nuts during pregnancy.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/270605.php

But my SIL & Sister were both told to avoid anything with peanuts, despite the fact neither had an allergy to nuts or peanuts. In the early 00's i know if was a massive campaign for pregnant women to avoid peanuts while pregnant.

I’m all for research into this topic and questions about why allergy rates are climbing.

This doesn’t help anyone who has these very serious allergies though. They need to be taken seriously.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-10-2019 9:55pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

But why didn't the mother have the pen with her...chemists can't just give out one without the script...unfortunately the parents share the blame on their daughters death along with the restaurant

A fuck up, I guess. I’m sure she feels some responsibility, maybe all of it. Who knows? It seems like in an emergency situation, protocol should be able to waived somehow. It seems obscene that the thing that could have saved the girl was nearby and couldn’t be used. It just doesn’t seem right. Was the chemist being officious? Or would they genuinely have got into a lot of trouble even if a life was saved? I don’t know.

MeisterG · 09-10-2019 9:56pm

It will eventually come to this one way or another as the instances of diagnosis are increasing rapidly in the Western (and specifically urban) world.

My son has a peanut allergy and the level of stress the condition induces in parents and child alike is difficult to articulate, every kids party, meal out, flight contains a small in probability but large in downside risk.

09-10-2019 9:56pm

i think that there's been a huge move towards everyone in a wider group having to swerve around the needs (and often "needs") of small minorities.

there is a point where practicalities seem to have gone out the window for the sake of inclusion at any cost.

nut allergies are obviously potentially very serious, but if one child from many has such a sensitive condition is there a case that they have to be educated separately rather than everyone else making accommodation?

c.p.w.g.w · 09-10-2019 9:57pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m all for research into this topic and questions about why allergy rates are climbing.

This doesn’t help anyone who has these very serious allergies though. They need to be taken seriously.

Here is a video which explains it a bit further, very interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OXI17ye9Gw

For people who already have it, there is a way to reverse the allergy by exposing them to micro-doses via exposure therapy...I think UCC do it

cnocbui · 09-10-2019 9:57pm

Raconteuse wrote: »

No I don't remember that.

What I remember is a girl who was 14. She had a meal with peanuts in it and neither she nor her mother had an epi-pen. Her mother went into a chemist, not panicking, asking if there was any chance she could get an epi-pen over the counter. The chemist wasn't able to do this.

Her death was pinned on the chemist which was a disgrace - that poor man or woman.

But it does illustrate that a peanut allergy can kill, no matter what moronic things are said here to downplay that reality.

Actually, the daughter lay dying on the pavement nearby and the mother was utterly distraught and pleaded with the staff for an epi-pen.

Your sanitized recollection is as poor as the judgement of the Chemists staff.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mothers-agony-as-teenage-girl-dies-from-peanut-allergy-on-city-street-29854519.html

09-10-2019 10:00pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Actually, the daughter lay dying on the pavement nearby and the mother was utterly distraught and pleaded with the staff for an epi-pen.

Your sanitized recollection is as poor as the judgement of the Chemists staff.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/mothers-agony-as-teenage-girl-dies-from-peanut-allergy-on-city-street-29854519.html

"A senior member of staff at the Hamilton Long pharmacy told the Irish Independent that they had been advised by gardai to make no public comment whatsoever about the incident.

A member of the pharmacy profession in Dublin later told this newspaper that regulations prohibit the dispensing of epipen injections without a prescription.

It is classed as an 'S1B' drug containing adrenaline and has the potential to do harm. Pharmacists are not allowed to give the injection"

that's the end of it, and appealling to that rag as your source does you little credit

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-10-2019 10:00pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Here is a video which explains it a bit further, very interesting

For people who already have it, there is a way to reverse the allergy by exposing them to micro-doses via exposure therapy...I think UCC do it

That’s very interesting! I think I heard about that, that they can be trained to deal with trace amounts.

wakka12 · 09-10-2019 10:04pm

Depends on the situation. I know a girl who will die if she comes into contact with nuts and obviously her class arent allowed to bring them because of that. If it puts a child in great danger of course it should be banned. You can eat all the nuts you like when you go home, theres no way for her or her family to accomodate that issue without homeschooling her so the other students just do the decent thing to help out

MeisterG · 09-10-2019 10:04pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Here is a video which explains it a bit further, very interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OXI17ye9Gw

For people who already have it, there is a way to reverse the allergy by exposing them to micro-doses via exposure therapy...I think UCC do it

Yep we have completed the treatment - it does not so much reverse the condition but increasing the threshold required for anaphylaxis to occur. It’s unfortunately extremely expensive (we did it in the UK - but the aim is to eventually roll it out in a wholesale fashion. The only problem is that it does not work for everyone and lots of kids get reactions so the doses are usually administered in a specialised clinic

cnocbui · 09-10-2019 10:05pm

Raconteuse wrote: »

Read about airborne nut allergies years ago.

Unreal selfishness on this thread.

The selfishness lies with the parents of the allergy suffererers. Plane loads of people and schools full of hundreds are all expected to cater to their child instead of them simply having their child wear a face mask.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-10-2019 10:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

i think that there's been a huge move towards everyone in a wider group having to swerve around the needs (and often "needs") of small minorities.

there is a point where practicalities seem to have gone out the window for the sake of inclusion at any cost.

nut allergies are obviously potentially very serious, but if one child from many has such a sensitive condition is there a case that they have to be educated separately rather than everyone else making accommodation?

If it’s avoiding fucking death, what level of cunt would you have to be to have a problem with special precautions being taken? I cannot get my head around it. You’re making out like the people asking for precautions to be taken are being entitled when it’s the people pouting about being mildly inconvenienced who are by far the most self-absorbed people in this scenario.

Like I said earlier, I previously had a housemate with deadly allergies. It was very easy to accommodate her.

Samsgirl · 09-10-2019 10:06pm

Not having nuts won't kill your child but it may kill a child with an allergy.
That's good enough reason to ban them.

Mrs OBumble · 09-10-2019 10:08pm

road_high wrote: »

How we survived primary school from the late 80s to mid 90s without any of this namby pamby nanny state stuff is still a mystery to me. Allergies etc seemed to be almost unheard of

Funny, they existed in my primary school in the 70s. You's must have been well behind the curve.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 09-10-2019 10:08pm

cnocbui wrote: »

The selfishness lies with the parents of the allergy suffererers. Plane loads of people and schools full of hundreds are all expected to cater to their child instead of them simply having their child wear a face mask.

Wow, I hope you are kidding because that's an astonishing attitude. What's the big deal, postpone eating nuts for a while so that someone doesn't die.

Educate yourself maybe, a face mask as protection isn't a risk I would take if one of my kids had a severe allergy.

screamer · 09-10-2019 10:09pm

Have you ever had an anaphylactic reaction? I have, so let me share. Your body shuts down you can’t breathe you can’t think your limbs don’t work you vomit you turn bright red, you can’t stand anymore, your legs don’t work, confusion sets in, and you accept you’re going to die as your body starts to shut down. If you have an epi pen and someone to administer it, it buys you time to get to hospital and you’re put into resuss with a crash cart in case your heart stops, strapped to drips and monitored for hours whilst your body is wracked by this reaction.

Now imagine that happens to a child. As an adult you can’t even inject yourself such is the instant chain reaction set off in your body.

A nut ban is a small ask for people who can literally die because of anaphylactic shock. It’s not an allergy it’s life or death and really unless you’ve had this near death experience yourself, you can’t imagine and hope you never have to.

c.p.w.g.w · 09-10-2019 10:13pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

That’s very interesting! I think I heard about that, that they can be trained to deal with trace amounts.

and over time its increased until the reaction is significantly reduced or gone...i girl in Bruff in Co Limerick was part of a trail in Cork and is pretty cured

Should nuts in school be banned for the small % who have "nut allergies"

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