Do you believe in God?

Zorya · 28-09-2019 3:22pm

stratowide wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/tyrone-squad-put-faith-in-pre-match-rosary-455117.html

What happens if both teams go to mass..?

Surely this is a dilemma even for god.

How will it be decided..the most prayers..?favourite team maybe..?

Hmmm it's a tough one for him alright.

That is where thunder and lightning come from.

corks finest · 28-09-2019 3:26pm

Drumpot wrote:

But it actually shines a light on another part of religion. The comfort it can bring and how can help heal a family. Those who detest religion will never really discuss this and will try to turn it around.

You're spot on reference comfort,I've learned to handle my grief through God,I'm not ashamed to say I talk to my God,the holy spirit,Mary,my dead relatives it makes me connect,( I'm not in about talking in public etc,but in a quit moment of reflection,or looking at a loved ones photo etc)

corks finest · 28-09-2019 3:30pm

Zorya wrote:

The people who yak about the cruelty of religions are really talking about the cruelty of humans and the cruelty of political machinations. Politics take over all religions, they become power structures. I always saw the church as a political institution as a child and found it hollow, left at 16. It is the same politics in Lamaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, everything, people sucking at power. The exoteric manipulation of crowds and creeds. But there are great thinkers and great thought to be found since forever in the esoteric or inner parts - without which we would be a lesser species.

One doesn't have to follow,be part of any religious group to recognise the good ppl involved in all religions, personally I pray to my God mostly on my own, swimming in Roberts cove, walking the cliffs,late at night in bed etc,I also enjoy communion with like minded ppl in church,and of course our youth folk group in Carrigaline at 6 mass make each mass a special uplifting experience

corks finest · 28-09-2019 3:32pm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote:

No you donâ€™t. No one on this earth knows. You, like millions of others believe there is a God and afterlife but you donâ€™t know it for a fact. No one has ever provided a scintilla of proof in any form that God exists. You have faith, you donâ€™t have proof.

Faith is the basis for all religions,those who don't understand or have it are at a loss to fully understand ppl with a religious belief

corks finest · 28-09-2019 3:33pm

Same as

uptherebels · 28-09-2019 3:35pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Might you be confusing me with someone else?

To your point though - you’re again conflating “the Church” with “people who are guilty of aiding and abetting criminals”. They’re not even close to being the same thing. Draw a Venn diagram and there would be a very small intersection between the two groups. You even admit as much yourself when you acknowledge that a small number of church members committed crimes (we’re agreed on that much), but then you go completely off the reservation to try and tar the majority of members of the Catholic Church, before coming back to again acknowledging that it was “the higher ups” (and I would suggest only a minority among the higher ups), who aided and abetted and facilitated criminal behaviour among a minority of it’s members.

The argument is as dumb as suggesting that the majority of rapes are committed by men, therefore all men are guilty of committing rape, and if men don’t buy into the whole “rape culture” nonsense, they’re aiding, abetting and facilitating the minority of men who commit rape. I’d tell anyone to fcuk off with that kind of shìte if they tried to associate me with rapists solely by virtue of the fact that we share one trait in common.

No not confusing you with someone else, alas touch screen phones. You can't separate the church from its membership. Those that committed crimes were protected by others who are in turn supported by the rest.
The difference to your ridiculous rape comparison is that men who commit rapes don't have the support and protection of any group or organisation in an effort to protect its power and money, least of all one that preaches "morality".

the beer revolu · 28-09-2019 3:37pm

corks finest wrote: »

Faith is the basis for all religions,those who don't understand or have it are at a loss to fully understand ppl with a religious belief

Was that not cjc's point?
Religious people have faith in the existence of god. They, no matter how much they believe, do not "know" that god exists.

uptherebels · 28-09-2019 3:37pm

realitykeeper wrote: »

I know there is a God and an after life. I was watching a movie some time back and it it a leftist Portuguese intellectual was saying there is no after life and if there were, the eternity of it would be absolute hell. This is presumptuous. It exhibits a limited imagination. Even in this life, eternity is all around us in the form of time and space. God, who knows ever hair on every head, is our architect and as such the eternity which awaits the righteous is tailor made.

You are confusing "know"with "think"

Drumpot · 28-09-2019 3:39pm

corks finest wrote: »

You're spot on reference comfort,I've learned to handle my grief through God,I'm not ashamed to say I talk to my God,the holy spirit,Mary,my dead relatives it makes me connect,( I'm not in about talking in public etc,but in a quit moment of reflection,or looking at a loved ones photo etc)

I’ve suffered my own demons and spiritual strategy’s have been infinitely more helpful then intellectual or scientific approaches that to be honest nearly drove me to suicide.

I don’t have any prejudice against religions but have found a way to be kind of ok with just not being sure. I am sure of nature and that represents my concept of a higher power. I talk to nature, talk to my dog/rabbit and try to reconnect with people I care about even if it’s just a brief few seconds of looking at them and In that eternal moment loving their every being.

I don’t necessarily believe in a god with a beard and heaven but when I was going to the hospital after my dad had a stroke I got great comfort/strength from saying to myself “god grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change , the courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. If my dad is going to die please help me have the strength to be strong for my family”. It was a moment I had before entering the hospital and meeting up with my family.

I can’t explain who I was talking to and I don’t feel the need to think about it. It gave me strength and I was able to organise my dads funeral and be very helpful to my family.

I’ve always been worried since I was a child that god didn’t exist but went to mass and prayed when I was younger. I am more comfortable just accepting I don’t know. An atheist didn’t know either but they have decided to not believe in anything because science can’t explain our existence and our universe. I’m ok with atheists who just accept that and don’t sh*t on religion.

One eyed Jack · 28-09-2019 4:16pm

uptherebels wrote: »

No not confusing you with someone else, alas touch screen phones. You can't separate the church from its membership. Those that committed crimes were protected by others who are in turn supported by the rest.

I wasn’t separating the Church from it’s membership. I’m just not interested in suggesting that every member of the Church is complicit or tacitly approves of the wrongdoing of a minority of it’s members. Your suggesting that members of the Church are responsible for the actions of a minority of it’s members is the same in principle as suggesting that victims of abuse are responsible for the actions of the people who commit abuse against them given that they were, and the vast majority of victims of abuse still are, members of the same Catholic Church. You sure you want to stick to that logic? I’ll tell you now it’s nonsense if you so much as gave it more than 30 seconds thought.

uptherebels wrote: »

The difference to your ridiculous rape comparison is that men who commit rapes don't have the support and protection of any group or organisation in an effort to protect its power and money, least of all one that preaches "morality".

You’re actually serious? Of course they do. That’s precisely how they were able to commit rape and abuse and have their crimes covered up, because they have a combination of power, wealth and influence in society which enables them to weave their way into positions where they have the capacity to commit crimes and have them covered up, while all the time portraying themselves as pillars of their respective communities.

One would imagine the recent scandals in all different walks of life and organisations would have taught you that much, that corruption and malfeasance isn’t an intrinsic part of any ideology or community, but there are always the minority of opportunistic fcuks will manipulate people’s idealism for their own nefarious purposes. It doesn’t follow that all members of that community or all people who subscribe to a particular ideology are degenerate fcukwits.

pgj2015 · 28-09-2019 5:10pm

Drumpot wrote: »

I’m not saying there is a god and am prob an agnostic, but do you believe the universe is infinite and came from a massive explosion out of nothing? Or there is multi verses and the universe has a finite size that we can’t see or know what exactly that is? As far as I know that’s the best we can come up with using science. We don’t know what the building blocks of the universe are, we presume we can work them out by looking at stuff light years away but we have never had a person past our moon. It’s like me looking out my window and trying to map out the world, it’s impossible.

Assuming we don’t kill ourselves, cause we are too stupid to actually implement a self preservation global strategy, how stupid will what we believe , even scientifically, look in 1000 years?

People get too hung up on the higher power element of religion. Nature can be a higher power, it’s far more balanced then man and you can trust it’s indiscriminate reactions.

But going back to the point. What do you believe in? That we came from nothing? That the universe is infinite? What do you think it means when scientists say that energy leaves our bodies when we die? Where does it go? What is consciousness?

You can ridicule people who believe in an after life but the the truth is atheists don’t have any idea what the F**k is going on anymore then those who follow a religion. That’s why I find their “religion is stupid” stance so silly. None of us know what’s going on, some have chosen their own ways of processing a life even our brainiest people can’t explain.

ok, I dont have the answers to your questions, but what I cant understand is why believe in a god just because other people do and you have a hunch there is a god? the reason most people believe in god is they are afraid of death, they want to see their dead relatives again when they die, they have a $hit life and hope things are great in heaven when they die.

I feel sorry for people who believe in a god and are religious, such a waste of a life if you ask me, just live a good life and enjoy it, no need to be praying and going to mass or other religious ceremonies.

Agricola · 28-09-2019 5:15pm

If you could raise a child in sort of Truman Show bubble, where that society had no religion of any kind, that child would grow into an adult who would find the concept of religion as ridiculous, as most of us find astrology or faith healing. It's success relies on pure indoctrination and the normalisation over centuries of nonsensical, contradictory mumbo jumbo.

But, if it helps some people get through the day, Im not going to go around taking a shít on it at every opportunity.

28-09-2019 5:16pm

"I do not need to believe..I know.."

Yester · 28-09-2019 5:19pm

We need civilizing forces to form civilization

railer201 · 28-09-2019 5:22pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

ok, I dont have the answers to your questions, but what I cant understand is why believe in a god just because other people do and you have a hunch there is a god? the reason most people believe in god is they are afraid of death, they want to see their dead relatives again when they die, they have a $hit life and hope things are great in heaven when they die.

I feel sorry for people who believe in a god and are religious, such a waste of a life if you ask me, just live a good life and enjoy it, no need to be praying and going to mass or other religious ceremonies.

It's more of a waste of time for non-believers to be even debating the subject as no afterlife means you'll have no memory of your existence - you may as well have never lived.

pgj2015 · 28-09-2019 5:27pm

railer201 wrote: »

It's more of a waste of time for non-believers to be even debating the subject as no afterlife means you'll have no memory of your existence - you may as well have never lived.

i just get scared that there are so many gullible weak people in the world that get a vote to be honest.

as for being a non believer i just live in the now, i have a great life, i think life is great and try to make the most of it as im not banking on any after life when i die.

railer201 · 28-09-2019 5:32pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

i just get scared that there are so many gullible weak people in the world that get a vote to be honest.

as for being a non believer i just live in the now, i have a great life, i think life is great and try to make the most of it as im not banking on any after life when i die.

No point in being scared - you won't remember such either, and if your time is so precious why are you wasting it by posting on boards ?

Zorya · 28-09-2019 5:34pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

railer201 wrote: »

It's more of a waste of time for non-believers to be even debating the subject as no afterlife means you'll have no memory of your existence - you may as well have never lived.

i just get scared that there are so many gullible weak people in the world that get a vote to be honest.

And yet from a purely empirical point of view research data regularly shows that religious people have better mental health than non believers. Better healing outcomes even. Roh well..... so much for presumptive weakness

pgj2015 · 28-09-2019 5:38pm

railer201 wrote: »

No point in being scared - you won't remember such either, and if your time is so precious why are you wasting it by posting on boards ?

it is a bit scary as im living now and the world is full of people who i deem to be a bit simple and they can affect certain things that impact my life.

i didnt say my time was precious, and i dont see why posting an odd comment on boards is a waste of time, its one of many little things i do each day.

railer201 · 28-09-2019 5:41pm

Zorya wrote: »

And yet from a purely empirical point of view research data regularly shows that religious people have better mental health than non believers. Better healing outcomes even. Roh well..... so much for presumptive weakness

Quite so, because we are spiritual beings along with the physical and mental components of being !

stratowide · 28-09-2019 5:43pm

Zorya wrote: »

And yet from a purely empirical point of view research data regularly shows that religious people have better mental health than non believers. Better healing outcomes even. Roh well..... so much for presumptive weakness

Placebo..nothing more.

smacl · 28-09-2019 6:10pm

Drumpot wrote: »

I’m ok with atheists who just accept that and don’t sh*t on religion.

That's fair enough, but the reverse has been the case throughout the history of this country and even in this thread we see atheists being referred to collectively as ****. Before more religious types get all pissy about atheists slagging off their religion they should maybe ask what's the source of resentment of organised religion and how much of it is justified?

Zorya · 28-09-2019 6:20pm

stratowide wrote: »

Placebo..nothing more.

A placebo that works. What harm does it do others if it works for some.

Zorya · 28-09-2019 6:25pm

smacl wrote: »

That's fair enough, but the reverse has been the case throughout the history of this country and even in this thread we see atheists being referred to collectively as ****. Before more religious types get all pissy about atheists slagging off their religion they should maybe ask what's the source of resentment of organised religion and how much of it is justified?

Haha

You must be readin a different thread than me. I find most of the people calling others names are the opposite way around than you. There must be some kind of name for that colouring of perception. Brain frogs prevent me from remembering it.

gormdubhgorm · 28-09-2019 6:32pm

Zorya wrote: »

A placebo that works. What harm does it do others if it works for some.

Exactly some atheists seem to resent people who get enjoyment out of religion.
But if some people get the benefit out of religion and feel the better for it what harm?

It is like some who resent those who enjoy a certain type of music or band and others resenting them, or looking down on them.
It works both ways on either end of the hard-line spectrum from the religious to the atheists on the other side.
Both sides should be entitled to do thier thing.

Galwayguy35 · 28-09-2019 6:36pm

I do believe there is something after death but I'm not sure what it is.

smacl · 28-09-2019 6:48pm

Zorya wrote: »

Haha You must be readin a different thread than me. I find most of the people calling others names are the opposite way around than you. There must be some kind of name for that colouring of perception. Brain frogs prevent me from remembering it.

Don't think so, maybe you're brain frog's a bit undernourished :pac:

Woke Hogan wrote: »

That's why I despise the obese, sneering internet atheists you will find on websites like this

nthclare wrote: »

You'll hear word's like sky fairy, Russell's teapot, the flying spaghetti monster etc
which is usually from bitter atheists who are obsessed with God, letting everyone know how intelligent atheists really are, shower of dick head's some of them..

nthclare wrote: »

Thats it in a nutshell, but being an agnostic I've come across more atheists being **** than religious people on these forums.

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

There’s an impression that a lot of online atheist sorts probably look a bit like this:

2013 wrx 0 60

Zorya · 28-09-2019 7:00pm

smacl wrote: »

Don't think so, maybe you're brain frog's a bit undernourished :pac:

Don't make me trawl back through the thread smacl, to post the other side of the sneering. It's there but I'm far too lazy right now

vistafinder · 28-09-2019 7:07pm

Ya I do too.

Alf Veedersane · 28-09-2019 7:18pm

I don't.

As others have said, a God wouldn't allow a lot of what happens in humanity to happen and when that is addressed by people with faith, there seem to be too many get-out clauses for their God.

That said, I respect their beliefs and try to be a decent human. I don't think anyone is worse off for the fact I don't believe in God.

Your Face · 28-09-2019 7:51pm

Im fairly indifferent to the concept but it's interesting to read people's answers and reactions to the question.

NickNickleby · 28-09-2019 7:52pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/tyrone-squad-put-faith-in-pre-match-rosary-455117.html

I'm astonished to read that , I mean the bit about "..at the behest.."

I suppose one could argue that its a team thing or a shared experience that the manager thinks will do some good, but I wonder would a slap up meal do the same thing????

As a child, I attended Presbyterian services as my local scout troop was the "xxxth Presbyterian Scout Troop". I don't think any of us thought we were being indoctrinated, even my Pakistani friend who was in it.

stratowide wrote: »

What happens if both teams go to mass..?

Surely this is a dilemma even for god.

How will it be decided..the most prayers..?favourite team maybe..?

Hmmm it's a tough one for him alright.

Aha
Don't you remember what you were taught by the Brothers? Don't ask for material stuff! (presumably because the outcome can be measured), When you ask for something, God will decide what's best for you, and he may well grant you victory in a football match, just not THIS match. God moves in mysterious ways.

Galwayguy35 · 28-09-2019 7:55pm

friendlyfun wrote: »

Don't think the decline in religious organisation is exactly great. Ireland seems to becoming more individualistic, more materialistic, egoism is rife with social media.

The decline of religion seems to be leaving a large void that seems difficult to replace.

TBH I think it is a good thing, up to 25 years ago the church had a hold over all aspects of life and the whole system was rotten to the core behind it all.

A smaller church like the COI have with honest people running it and followers who believe in it is better I think.

smacl · 28-09-2019 8:02pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

TBH I think it is a good thing, up to 25 years ago the church had a hold over all aspects of life and the whole system was rotten to the core behind it all.

A smaller church like the COI have with honest people running it and followers who believe in it is better I think.

Absolutely. Religion is grand if you're into it but no good reason to drag your sorry ass out of bed on a Sunday morning if not. I've a number of very religious friends who get lots out of their beliefs and more power to their elbow, but I feel sorry for all those that get dragged along that really couldn't be arsed. There's a not so fine line between wonderful and miserable.

vladmydad · 28-09-2019 8:06pm

The void that’s being left from the decline of traditional religion is now being filled with climate alarmism. (I’m not saying climate change isn’t real but it’s definitely taking on a religious/cult element). This , to me, gives credence to the theory that religiosity may be hard wired into human beings.

OMM 0000 · 28-09-2019 8:11pm

I think when you spend a lot of time thinking about life, why are we here, how are we here, are we here, it's impossible to not come to the conclusion that something mad is going on and we have no idea. So that leads me to believe there is some sort of higher power, and we're probably completely so far up our own holes we can't see what's really going on.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 28-09-2019 8:24pm

How would people who don’t believe feel if they found out tomorrow that there actually was a God who was all seeing and knowing and we were answerable to him in an afterlife?

I for one would be delighted, it saddens me to think I may never see or speak to my Dad again hence why I struggle with my belief. Part of me says there is a God but I think a bigger part of me knows there isn’t and that genuinely does upset me.

Dadzilla · 28-09-2019 8:37pm

These discussions are pointless. The extremists show ignorance and the middle ground show a reserved respect for the other side

Yet very few follow the creed of “knowing your enemy”

I was raised catholic but ended up studying a number of religions. There are similarities and crossover in many religions. It’s clear across all religions that people use religion as a tool to manipulate and abuse others.

As for Christianity/Catholicism, people get that wrong. For a start god doesn’t intervene with trivial issues on earth. That’s not the point. The promise is an eternal paradise. You have to deal with the cards you’re dealt with on this world as part of your voyage to the next. So all the horrors of this world, which are human made, are never going to be affected by god.

Equally if you pray and your dog survives his operation or your kid passes her junior cert, a that’s not god.

Religion brings so much comfort and solace to so many people. More power to them. As long as we respect one another than that’s all that matters.

Zorya · 28-09-2019 8:37pm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

How would people who don’t believe feel if they found out tomorrow that there actually was a God who was all seeing and knowing and we were answerable to him in an afterlife?

I for one would be delighted, it saddens me to think I may never see or speak to my Dad again hence why I struggle with my belief. Part of me says there is a God but I think a bigger part of me knows there isn’t and that genuinely does upset me.

Since what you seek to know for certain is unknowable you can choose to believe however gives you most peace.
For example many who choose to believe there is no metaphysical reality also choose to believe that we will come upon alien life forms at some time in the universe. Even if they are unsure about life elsewhere in the universe they mostly choose to believe that science will eventually explain everything - scientism. And neither of these two random examples of belief can be known to be true or not. For now. They are simply beliefs.
So just live your life as though what you believe is true. Like most other people.

uck51js9zml2yt · 28-09-2019 9:25pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If he listens to you, why have bad things happened to you?

Why does both the sun shine and the sky rain on the good and the evil?

Chancer3001 · 28-09-2019 9:37pm

There's about 3000 recorded God's throughout history.

So if you believe in God, and I dont, it just means I believe in one less god than you.

You think 2999 are absolute nonsense made up by delusional folk to explain their universe simply.

I've pushed the boat out to 3000.

stratowide · 28-09-2019 9:44pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I do believe there is something after death but I'm not sure what it is.

There will be loads happening after our deaths.unfortunately we wont be involved in any of it.

nacho libre · 28-09-2019 10:12pm

[QUOTE=Uriel.;111366963. I hope there is some form of aferlife. But probably not. I've a, probably irrational, fear of death and nothingness so I think I cling into a little bit of belief to reassure myself that there's more to come[/QUOTE]

To me nothingness is preferable to eternity. Finality gives lifes meaning. I don't see the point of fearing nothingness either. I was nothing before i existed, and i was fine.

20Wheel · 28-09-2019 11:01pm

best advice ive seen on the subject is this; there may or may not be a god, we cant answer that. However, that god will not intervene in your life.

i find this to be true, having seen people in situations way more fcked up than any ill find myself in. god didnt intervene for people in warzones, adrift at sea, or stuck in an upturned car. so he/she/it wont be intervening to get you a promotion/laid/out of minor trouble.

by all means pray, but be sure to tie up your camel, as the old saying goes.

pgj2015 · 28-09-2019 11:10pm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

How would people who don’t believe feel if they found out tomorrow that there actually was a God who was all seeing and knowing and we were answerable to him in an afterlife?

I for one would be delighted, it saddens me to think I may never see or speak to my Dad again hence why I struggle with my belief. Part of me says there is a God but I think a bigger part of me knows there isn’t and that genuinely does upset me.

I wouldnt change a thing and go on living exactly as i am. why would i be answerable to anyone?

smacl · 29-09-2019 10:23am

Taliyah Vast Gofer wrote: »

Why does both the sun shine and the sky rain on the good and the evil?

The sun shines because it is a nuclear furnace and it rains or not based on prevalent weather conditions. Whether either fall on you depends pretty much on where you're standing regardless of what you happen to believe.

Dampsquid · 29-09-2019 12:04pm

vladmydad wrote: »

The void that’s being left from the decline of traditional religion is now being filled with climate alarmism. (I’m not saying climate change isn’t real but it’s definitely taking on a religious/cult element). This , to me, gives credence to the theory that religiosity may be hard wired into human beings.

Religion isn't hard wired, but trying to explain the unexplained is. I prefer the scientific approach. Theorising and then trying to prove/disprove - some people will just latch on to something and go with that or follow the crowd.

Christianity has only spread so widely due to it being adopted by the roman empire 1800 or so years ago.

What do religious people think of other religions, do you respect their beliefs? Do you feel sorry for them worshiping a false god?

Mad_maxx · 29-09-2019 12:17pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I do believe there is something after death but I'm not sure what it is.

I'm sort of the same, I'm not smart enough to definitively know that nothing happens, I don't believe in the conventional message surrounding God though, I spent a few years wrestling with the concept from the age of twenty one, came out the other end an agnostic, I don't have any wish to be conscious somewhere else when I pass on however

Mad_maxx · 29-09-2019 12:20pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

uptherebels wrote: »

No not confusing you with someone else, alas touch screen phones. You can't separate the church from its membership. Those that committed crimes were protected by others who are in turn supported by the rest.

I wasn’t separating the Church from it’s membership. I’m just not interested in suggesting that every member of the Church is complicit or tacitly approves of the wrongdoing of a minority of it’s members. Your suggesting that members of the Church are responsible for the actions of a minority of it’s members is the same in principle as suggesting that victims of abuse are responsible for the actions of the people who commit abuse against them given that they were, and the vast majority of victims of abuse still are, members of the same Catholic Church. You sure you want to stick to that logic? I’ll tell you now it’s nonsense if you so much as gave it more than 30 seconds thought.

uptherebels wrote: »

The difference to your ridiculous rape comparison is that men who commit rapes don't have the support and protection of any group or organisation in an effort to protect its power and money, least of all one that preaches "morality".

You’re actually serious? Of course they do. That’s precisely how they were able to commit rape and abuse and have their crimes covered up, because they have a combination of power, wealth and influence in society which enables them to weave their way into positions where they have the capacity to commit crimes and have them covered up, while all the time portraying themselves as pillars of their respective communities.

One would imagine the recent scandals in all different walks of life and organisations would have taught you that much, that corruption and malfeasance isn’t an intrinsic part of any ideology or community, but there are always the minority of opportunistic fcuks will manipulate people’s idealism for their own nefarious purposes. It doesn’t follow that all members of that community or all people who subscribe to a particular ideology are degenerate fcukwits.

Supporting institutions is seen as the respectable thing to do, it's the same with the guards, despite the endless scandals, people who criticise the guards are viewed as not being respectable.

Institutions thrive on the hypocrisy endemic in all of society

ILoveYourVibes · 29-09-2019 12:25pm

yes

Do you believe in God?

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