US Presidential Election 2020

Brian? · 24-10-2020 4:29pm

WastedYouth wrote: »

There is a lot of activity on boards.ie about Trump and the US election

Has the US election and US politics always been a popular topic in this forum or is it just popular recently because it involves Trump?

Is politics in other countries also discussed to the same degree?

As to the election itself - if it isn’t actually happening until the 3rd of November then why is Trump (and I assume others) voting today? Is it getting spread out over different days because of CoVid?

There used to be an entire forum dedicated to US politics. It had about 10 regular posters but was decently active. Used to get very busy every 4 years around September.

salmocab · 24-10-2020 4:52pm

Phoebas wrote: »

In no particular order: English speaking, gets covered in other media, some very interesting/crazy characters, US policy has an impact on Ireland, Trump, covered in popular culture, usually some fun shenanigans around election time, lots of polls/stats (for the nerds), divisive system so it's fun to pick a side and watch the game.

Plenty of people have relatives or friends living there and a lot of people work for American multinationals

martingriff · 24-10-2020 4:55pm

Phoebas wrote: »

In no particular order: English speaking, gets covered in other media, some very interesting/crazy characters, US policy has an impact on Ireland, Trump, covered in popular culture, usually some fun shenanigans around election time, lots of polls/stats (for the nerds), divisive system so it's fun to pick a side and watch the game.

The news station with there predictions and we give x state or county to x candidate while another may say something else

L1011 · 24-10-2020 5:08pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

He needs to be extremely careful with the constituency he needs to win.

Trump's push in 2016 was coal (which has continued to decline under his presidency, as it happens); during the debate he was pushing fracked gas.

Different states for the most part.

valoren · 24-10-2020 5:37pm

WastedYouth wrote: »

And why is US politics in particular popular on boards.ie? Aside from whoopty-do about Trump?

It's akin to rubber necking. You can't help but look. The Trump presidency and the shenanigans involved has been car crash TV/politics and given how unprecedented his election was it will draw more interest than a regular Joe Democrat/Republican president i.e. if Jeb Bush was President then there wouldn't be the same level of interest from those who would only follow US politics periodically.

An Ciarraioch · 24-10-2020 7:46pm

Latest turnout update - now up to 41% of the total 2016 turnout, or roughly 25% of the overall electorate, and that's before any stats from NY, where early voting began today. Some interesting tendencies, in that the Rust Belt states are all low-to-mid forties, along with California, Nevada and Arizona. Texas continues to lead the way on 76%, along with Montana (67%) and New Mexico (62)%. North Carolina and Georgia are also in the 60s, with Tennessee and Florida on 55%, so unclear whether either party gains any advantage:

https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/index.html

stefanovich · 24-10-2020 7:47pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Writing is on the wall for fossil fuel.

Fracking killed coal on cost. And that's before you take into account future carbon tax increases.

Electric cars are reducing the demand for oil.

Biden could have phrased it better. But unless those areas are diversifying now the future is looking grim.

US coal-fired capacity peaked in 2011

Most of the remaining coal capacity is in the south.

Fossils fuels becoming obsolete because of taxation?

Just don’t raise tax on it and it won’t be obsolete.

Alternative energy is not viable without subsidies.

VinLieger · 24-10-2020 8:26pm

stefanovich wrote: »

Fossils fuels becoming obsolete because of taxation?

Just don’t raise tax on it and it won’t be obsolete.

Thats literally not how it works,

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/29/murray-energy-joins-list-of-coal-companies-to-declare-bankruptcy.html

It is hilarious that the republicans are the ones fighting tooth and nail against the free market in this instance though.

droidus · 24-10-2020 8:26pm

stefanovich wrote: »

Fossils fuels becoming obsolete because of taxation?

Just don’t raise tax on it and it won’t be obsolete.

Alternative energy is not viable without subsidies.

lol, unsubsidised solar is now the cheapest source of energy in history. Wind and solar will soon be cheaper than existing natural gas plants. Meanwhile fossil fuels receive $4.7 trillion in subsidies each year.

24-10-2020 8:36pm

Brian? wrote: »

There used to be an entire forum dedicated to US politics. It had about 10 regular posters but was decently active. Used to get very busy every 4 years around September.

Did it even last 2 election cycles? It was fun though, particularly the Wall St Ayn Rand offspring from Donegal who took a stripper and married her and made her a successful day trader.

stefanovich wrote: »

Fossils fuels becoming obsolete because of taxation?

Just don’t raise tax on it and it won’t be obsolete.

Alternative energy is not viable without subsidies.

I generally hate dismissive posts but ya really gotta educate yourself. Fossil fuels and nuclear have had ungodly amounts of subsidies and tax breaks. On a like-for-like basis renewables reached a critical scale in the last decade (at different times) where they became cheaper than digging stuff out of the ground to burn it. It's pretty much all ideology that frames arguments in favour of fossil fuels.

Water John · 24-10-2020 8:54pm

Obama speaking in Miami. Absolutely shredding Trump and he's enjoying it. Mixes the humorous with the serious.

paul71 · 24-10-2020 9:05pm

stefanovich wrote: »

Fossils fuels becoming obsolete because of taxation?

Just don’t raise tax on it and it won’t be obsolete.

Alternative energy is not viable without subsidies.

You do know that it is other way around don't you or have you existed entirely in a bubble. It is the fossil fuel industry that is subsidised.

An Ciarraioch · 24-10-2020 9:26pm

Bizarrely, even Montana could potentially go blue, the question being whether the expense required would only distract from more significant states:

https://twitter.com/USA_Polling/status/1320048091530145793

Phoebas · 24-10-2020 9:53pm

There have been a handful of polls that give Montana to Biden, but Trump is well ahead, way beyond margin of error, in most polls.

Not going to happen.

Edit: Although I should qualify that by saying that 538 are giving the chance of Biden taking Montana around the same chance that Trump will take the Presidency.

Itssoeasy · 24-10-2020 10:35pm

I know this is a thread about the presidency but the tide for Lindsey Graham is turning even more. A poll from SC has come out where his opponent is actually leading.

Edit: seven days ago a New York Times/Siena college had Graham up by six.

TomOnBoard · 24-10-2020 11:03pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I know this is a thread about the presidency but the tide for Lindsey Graham is turning even more. A poll from SC has come out where his opponent is actually leading.

Edit: seven days ago a New York Times/Siena college had Graham up by six.

Lou Dobbs, who is one of Trump's leading Fox whisperers did a piece to camera recently that was brutal on Graham. Once the GOP lads start eating their own like that, its gonna lead to FUD in the minds of some Rep voters who may just lose some of their oft-hyped enthusiasm and may decide to sit this one out! Biden only needs to stay out of trouble over the next 10 days and let them at it!

After the debate on Thursday and the 60 Minutes tantrum Trump threw during the week, as well as Obama's evisceration of Trump in Florida today, the Sunday shows and the polling afterwards ought to be very interesting and exciting indeed.

Itssoeasy · 25-10-2020 1:13am

I’ve watched 30 minutes of the Barack Obama campaign speech from today and my god is it nice to hear a American president who doesn’t sound like a college student after a night on the lash and is making no sense( and we’ve all been there in our younger days) but you need more than the logic of a pissed college student to be president of the United States.

Outlaw Pete · 25-10-2020 5:30am

His speech was full of more falsehoods than The Comey Rule and that's saying something.

It was the usual nauseating professional politician nonsense we heard for 8 years. Trump called out that crap the other night when Biden was at his 'empty chair at the dinner table' crap but yet Obama just had to indulge himself in more of that cringeworhty garbage.

"Joe Biden would never call the men and women of our military suckers and losers. He knows those troops are somebody's husbands, somebody's wives, somebody's kids, somebody's spouse, somebody's father"

If he has to lie about things Trump's said (and clearly he must) then he mustn't have too many legitimate gripes on the man to be sticking with.

Tell me how · 25-10-2020 5:44am

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

His speech was full of more falsehoods than The Comey Rule and that's saying something.

It was the usual nauseating professional politician nonsense we heard for 8 years. Trump called out that crap the other night when Biden was at his 'empty chair at the dinner table' crap but yet Obama just had to indulge himself in more of that cringeworhty garbage.

If he has to lie about things Trump's said (and clearly he must) then he mustn't have too many legitimate gripes on the man to be sticking with.

Clint Eastwood brought an empty chair to the RNC and everyone was like 'WTF'.
Joe Biden spoke about an empty chair at the table and everyone was like 'He gets it.'

Outlaw Pete · 25-10-2020 5:55am

Tell me how wrote: »

Clint Eastwood brought an empty chair to the RNC and everyone was like 'WTF'.
Joe Biden spoke about an empty chair at the table and everyone was like 'He gets it.'

Exactly, it makes no sense :P

looksee · 25-10-2020 8:59am

Tell me how wrote: »

Clint Eastwood brought an empty chair to the RNC and everyone was like 'WTF'.
Joe Biden spoke about an empty chair at the table and everyone was like 'He gets it.'

You are really stretching now. The only possible link between those two incidents are the words 'empty chair', but in entirely different contexts. And I'm sure you don't really want to remind people of the first incident, even Clint Eastwood afterwards described it as 'silly'.

the purple tin · 25-10-2020 9:09am

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I’ve watched 30 minutes of the Barack Obama campaign speech from today and my god is it nice to hear a American president who doesn’t sound like a college student after a night on the lash and is making no sense( and we’ve all been there in our younger days) but you need more than the logic of a pissed college student to be president of the United States.

Look at some of Kennedy's speeches on Youtube. The man had more brains and natural charisma in his little finger than Trump and Biden have combined.

MJohnston · 25-10-2020 9:16am

pixelburp wrote: »

Why has American politics ever been popular around the world? Because thanks to its entertainment industry and the various cultural links through migration, US politics is a popular spectator sport. If we don't actively follow it in the news, film and TV exposes us to it through "the West Wing" et al. Exposure made more of a guilty pleasure by the ever increasing hyperbole and partisanship. It's the closest thing to politics as a soap opera at this stage, as glib or flippant as that might sound.

I think this is reductive — it’s undoubtedly part of the reason but far from the most important one.

The reason why US elections are obsessively followed by non Americans is because what the USA does has a huge impact on the rest of the world.

Nowhere is that more apparent than with Covid-19 — Trump dismantled the CDC embed programme and a lot of the CDC itself. This, at best, left the world without a couple of months extra notice about the virus. At worst I honestly can imagine a scenario where anyone but Trump (and that includes Generic Republican) reacts quickly and Covid is nothing more than another SARS type contained epidemic.

Setting that aside though, you’ve got climate change, global conflict, trade, etc. The USA, declined in stature though it may be, still controls how the rest of the world proceeds. The EU is a growing counterbalance to this in terms of seeing our own agenda, but we’re still inextricably linked to where the USA goes in most cases.

pixelburp · 25-10-2020 11:36am

Trump voted in Florida, in person, today. And sure enough is still trying to undermine and cast doubts on the validity of postal /distance voting with his remarks to journalists...

“... a very secure vote. Much more secure than when you send in a ballot, I can tell you that”

Timberrrrrrrr · 25-10-2020 11:51am

pixelburp wrote: »

Trump voted in Florida, in person, today. And sure enough is still trying to undermine and cast doubts on the validity of postal /distance voting with his remarks to journalists...

“... a very secure vote. Much more secure than when you send in a ballot, I can tell you that”

The last gasping desperate breath of a man who knows his campaign is dead, like the chicken that has had it's head cut off he is still running around flapping, not realising that its already over.

relax carry on · 25-10-2020 12:23pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The last gasping desperate breath of a man who knows his campaign is dead, like the chicken that has had it's head cut off he is still running around flapping, not realising that its already over.

And yet Americans will continue to vote for the headless chicken. The problems of the US political system will not be fixed by voting out Trump. It will go someway to restoring some semblance of sanity but the system that allowed Trump to become POTUS and do the damage he has done, still exists waiting to be exploited by a more intelligent version of him. It will be interesting to see if Biden wins, will there be a recognition of the frailty of their system.

briany · 25-10-2020 12:33pm

I watched an interesting documentary last night about flat earth believers. One of the analyses that stood out to me was that when you start off with a bogus assumption - when you make it the centre of your worldview, in fact - you're going to have to explain away a lot of apparent facts that clash. So, in the case of the flat earth believer, when they're confronted with video and picture from spacecraft that show the clear curvature and shape of the Earth, they must say that this video and photographic evidence was faked.

Now, there's a similarity with certain Trump supporters. Their assumption is that Trump is the best president ever, that the polls are wrong and there's absolutely no way he can lose the election. So, if he does lose the election, and lose well, then they must reorient reality to remain consistent with their previous assumption. It could not be that America did not want Trump, this is impossible. It would have to be that the greatest case of electoral fraud in the history of the country, by far, had just taken place.

VinLieger · 25-10-2020 12:43pm

briany wrote: »

I watched an interesting documentary last night about flat earth believers. One of the analyses that stood out to me was that when you start off with a bogus assumption - when you make it the centre of your worldview, in fact - you're going to have to explain away a lot of apparent facts that clash. So, in the case of the flat earth believer, when they're confronted with video and picture from spacecraft that show the clear curvature and shape of the Earth, they must say that this video and photographic evidence was faked.

Now, there's a similarity with certain Trump supporters. Their assumption is that Trump is the best president ever, that the polls are wrong and there's absolutely no way he can lose the election. So, if he does lose the election, and lose well, then they must reorient reality to remain consistent with their previous assumption. It could not be that America did not want Trump, this is impossible. It would have to be that the greatest case of electoral fraud in the history of the country, by far, had just taken place.

Indeed, its called a cult.

People have literally drank poison and died simply because he told them to do it.

pixelburp · 25-10-2020 12:52pm

The American system is too corrupted and malformed that I think it CAN be saved, but when the house is burning, the guy with a bucket of water with holes, is more appealing than the grinning lunatic holding a box of matches while gloating "I'm not responsible". America is a broken experiment, a Sunk Cost nation almost beyond repair

the purple tin · 25-10-2020 1:18pm

pixelburp wrote: »

The American system is too corrupted and malformed that I think it CAN be saved, but when the house is burning, the guy with a bucket of water with holes, is more appealing than the grinning lunatic holding a box of matches while gloating "I'm not responsible". America is a broken experiment, a Sunk Cost nation almost beyond repair

The more centrist and moderate elements of the Rep and Dem parties need to break away and form two new parties I think, taking the moderate voters with them.

pixelburp · 25-10-2020 1:43pm

the purple tin wrote: »

The more centrist and moderate elements of the Rep and Dem parties need to break away and form two new parties I think, taking the moderate voters with them.

But it's not as simple as that, the two party system is so engrained, systemically and culturally, it's not so easy that a 3rd party could operate within that aggressive duopoly. If it were it would have happened already. This is why the Democrats are so riven by internal fighting ATM really, the necessity of picking one of two meaning left wing politicians like AOC or Sanders are butting against the centrist players such as Pelosi.

dinorebel · 25-10-2020 1:44pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Trump voted in Florida, in person, today. And sure enough is still trying to undermine and cast doubts on the validity of postal /distance voting with his remarks to journalists...

“... a very secure vote. Much more secure than when you send in a ballot, I can tell you that”

Had he not already said he mailed in his vote:rolleyes:

marno21 · 25-10-2020 1:45pm

pixelburp wrote: »

But it's not as simple as that, the two party system is so engrained, systemically and culturally, it's not so easy that a 3rd party could operate within that aggressive duopoly. If it were it would have happened already. This is why the Democrats are so riven by internal fighting ATM really, the necessity of picking one of two meaning left wing politicians like AOC or Sanders are butting against the centrist players such as Pelosi.

Another case in point being New York's 16th where 16 term incumbent and Chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee Eliot Engel was primaried by a Sanders/AOC endorsed challenger.

the purple tin · 25-10-2020 1:47pm

pixelburp wrote: »

But it's not as simple as that, the two party system is so engrained, systemically and culturally, it's not so easy that a 3rd party could operate within that aggressive duopoly. If it were it would have happened already. This is why the Democrats are so riven by internal fighting ATM really, the necessity of picking one of two meaning left wing politicians like AOC or Sanders are butting against the centrist players such as Pelosi.

Give it a go sure. If it fails, it fails. They need something radically different. Anything is better than what they have at the minute: extremists have taken the reins of both parties.

VinLieger · 25-10-2020 1:52pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Give it a go sure. If it fails, it fails. They need something radically different. Anything is better than what they have at the minute: extremists have taken the reins of both parties.

The real problem is they are using first past the post voting which will always eventually reduce the ultimate choices down to 2 parties.

Its an incredibly poor system of voting, but its not really discussed in the states as people only acknowledge the 2 party system as being the problem when its really just a symptom of how bad FPtP is.

It will never be changed though as it would lead to the complete disintegration of both parties and they are the only ones who can change it.

briany · 25-10-2020 1:54pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Give it a go sure. If it fails, it fails. They need something radically different. Anything is better than what they have at the minute: extremists have taken the reins of both parties.

The Democrats and Republicans would probably do well for themselves not to go too far down the current route of partisanship. They will unwittingly p*ss off enough of America that a new party will form out of the disaffected.

paul71 · 25-10-2020 2:03pm

briany wrote: »

The Democrats and Republicans would probably do well for themselves not to go too far down the current route of partisanship. They will unwittingly p*ss off enough of America that a new party will form out of the disaffected.

To be absolutely honest after watching the ****show America has become in the last decade (perhaps longer) that is probably what they need. Move away from an outdated presidency which at stage is a bought office with a multi billion dollar price tag, and to a real democracy with a Multiparty parliament.

Tell me how · 25-10-2020 2:11pm

paul71 wrote: »

To be absolutely honest after watching the ****show America has become in the last decade (perhaps longer) that is probably what they need. Move away from an outdated presidency which at stage is a bought office with a multi billion dollar price tag, and to a real democracy with a Multiparty parliament.

There are over 1,000 applicants for the office of President in this election.
America is too big a country to see the natural emergence of a cohesive party or parties on a national scale and the way money controls campaigning and therefore awareness and therefore votes, neither the Dem's or Republicans are going to allow a party to grow cohesively.

Maybe if someone with the profile like AOC, or Sanders broke out of the Democrats and received massive funding support from a wealthy philantropist (we're talking billions of dollars) they could grow a regional party with enough of a base to get a structure in place and then take that nationally but I think that would be a 10-30 year project and remember Sanders came in to the Democrats because he saw what was happening on the outside of the big 2.

Unfortunately, as with most significant political upheavals, conflict can be a massive instigator of change and I wouldn't be surprised if the same was the case here again.

paul71 · 25-10-2020 2:16pm

Tell me how wrote: »

There are over 1,000 applicants for the office of President in this election.
America is too big a country to see the natural emergence of a cohesive party or parties on a national scale and the way money controls campaigning and therefore awareness and therefore votes, neither the Dem's or Republicans are going to allow a party to grow cohesively.

Maybe if someone with the profile like AOC, or Sanders broke out of the Democrats and received massive funding support from a wealthy philantropist (we're talking billions of dollars) they could grow a regional party with enough of a base to get a structure in place and then take that nationally but I think that would be a 10-30 year project and remember Sanders came in to the Democrats because he saw what was happening on the outside of the big 2.

Unfortunately, as with most significant political upheavals, conflict can be a massive instigator of change and if I wouldn't be surprised if the same was the case here again.

Unfortunately,

And only the 2 richest fundraisers bought and paid for by the richest in Society ever get to be presented to the public for election for a position that has far too much power for 1 person. Its a broken system.

The republican party needs to break too, the rabid right wing is in control and you no longer get McCains or Regans.

Rjd2 · 25-10-2020 3:20pm

paul71 wrote: »

And only the 2 richest fundraisers bought and paid for by the richest in Society ever get to be presented to the public for election for a position that has far too much power for 1 person. Its a broken system.

The republican party needs to break too, the rabid right wing is in control and you no longer get McCains or Regans.

Mc Cain was an evil war monger who until he was dying was demanding men go fight and die in forever wars.

Regan also was a warmonger who has blood on his hands on how he handled Aids and his horrific economic policies which were so influential lead to widening the gap in society between the rich and poor.

I really wish people would stop holding these 2 evil men up as some sort of aspiration for any party.

Rjd2 · 25-10-2020 3:26pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Give it a go sure. If it fails, it fails. They need something radically different. Anything is better than what they have at the minute: extremists have taken the reins of both parties.

Extremists have not taken control of the democrat party, the Sanders wing while loud is not that important. The corporate Dems still have total control party of the party, Pelosi is in charge of the house and Biden will win the presidency.

The likes of Omar, AOC are normal centre left politicians who want to drag the party somewhat to the left.

The bigger concern for the Dems is how they are flirting with suburban republican voters , the type of people who were content to vote GOP their whole lives despite how cruel their policies were on the poor, but are only leaving now because they find Trump crude.

pixelburp · 25-10-2020 3:40pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Give it a go sure. If it fails, it fails. They need something radically different. Anything is better than what they have at the minute: extremists have taken the reins of both parties.

But if it fails then bang goes any political career. Look at AOC: would she have got where she has, had she not swallowed her presumed distaste toward the corporate democrats? In Ireland she'd be a boilerplate, left of centre politician but in the US is a wild card and outrageous socialist hated by its core. No way she'd have gained the traction she did without Democratic party prominence though, needing to pick a side

Rjd2 · 25-10-2020 4:49pm

pixelburp wrote: »

But if it fails then bang goes any political career. Look at AOC: would she have got where she has, had she not swallowed her presumed distaste toward the corporate democrats? In Ireland she'd be a boilerplate, left of centre politician but in the US is a wild card and outrageous socialist hated by its core. No way she'd have gained the traction she did without Democratic party prominence though, needing to pick a side

I think she has said years ago ideally her and Biden would not be in same party.

However she is sensible enough to know its join the Dems and try to fight for change or moan online for retweets and obviously went with option a.

In a perfect/less awful world, the Greens and the libertarian party would have more power to give voters more options but neither do and it does not look like changing anytime soon.

The "centre" aka the Neo-con Zombie Reganism people will probably take the party back once Trump loses and obviously the corporate Dems if they do a clean sweep everywhere will have firm control over their party and to be fair when you win elections that's what happens.:D

The centre most certainly will hold in American politics.

TomOnBoard · 25-10-2020 5:57pm

Better Hang on to your Hat this week! As we head into the home straight, I'm expecting a wall of misinformation and lies to be unleashed in a last ditch attempt to get Trump over the line! He seems to have an uphill climb according to almost all sensible polls, and I'm seeing the 'sentiment analysis' systems adding to Biden's lead based on recent social media activity. Texas went marginally Blue for Biden in the last day or so, although its still on a knife-edge. I'm expecting a wipe-out of Trump's hold on Florida, as Seniors are turning against him in their droves. SO, the pre- and post- election shennanigans in Florida ought to be record- breaking as ever- more desperate voter suppression methods are called into play.

I'm expecting a ton of totally unverified (and indeed unverifiable) "Breaking News" reports on all manner of topics including new-found cures and now-available Covid vaccines, Hunter Biden drug-fuelled 'kompromat', Joe Biden 'Chyna' tangles as well as 'October Surprises' I can't even imagine.

Thankfully, such final week 'revelations' will have less of an effect on election outcomes, as so many votes are already in the box, and can no longer be changed. I foresee a lot of last-minute activity in the courts, aimed at disenfranchising minority voters and undermining postal and drop-in ballots, as well as legal manoeuverings to support interference in vote counting and results announcements.

Buckle Up, and believe nothing unless it's supported by iron-clad evidence. And buy the popcorn for the Count!

droidus · 25-10-2020 6:08pm

Nearly 60 million votes cast now. 80% of the 2016 total in Texas. The indicators are there for all who chose to see them.

rossie1977 · 25-10-2020 6:52pm

the purple tin wrote: »

The more centrist and moderate elements of the Rep and Dem parties need to break away and form two new parties I think, taking the moderate voters with them.

Moderate and centrist elements of the Republican party?

Have you seen the Republican voting record last decade?

Brian? · 25-10-2020 6:57pm

the purple tin wrote: »

The more centrist and moderate elements of the Rep and Dem parties need to break away and form two new parties I think, taking the moderate voters with them.

The entire Dem party are moderates, there are no extremists in the party that I'm aware of. Even the likes of AOC is a pretty moderate social democrat.

VinLieger · 25-10-2020 7:25pm

Brian? wrote: »

The entire Dem party are moderates, there are no extremists in the party that I'm aware of. Even the likes of AOC is a pretty moderate social democrat.

There may be no extremists similar to the republicans but theres a pretty wide range of views in the democrats so that in any other country that didnt have FPtP it would be at least 2 if not 3 separate parties

Igotadose · 25-10-2020 11:52pm

Hey, Trump! Your boss sez cut the Hunter Biden crap! https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN27A0TA?__twitter_impression=true

O'Neill · 26-10-2020 12:31am

Brian? wrote: »

The entire Dem party are moderates, there are no extremists in the party that I'm aware of. Even the likes of AOC is a pretty moderate social democrat.

Yes. A certain percentage of the YouTube world view her as a 'wannabe tyrant' or 'communist dictator'......:rolleyes:

US Presidential Election 2020

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