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The Jews can revive a dead language reserved for ceremonial purposes

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  • 05-06-2018 9:24pm
    #1
    JohnKyle39
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭


    We can't revive our own language, and choose to speak the language of a nation that caused us 700 years of oppression

    Why?


«13456

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    #2
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    JohnKyle39 wrote: »
    We can't revive our own language, and choose to speak the language of a nation that caused us 700 years of oppression

    Why?

    What's your opinion?


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    #3
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,185 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    JohnKyle39 wrote: »
    We can't revive our own language, and choose to speak the language of a nation that caused us 700 years of oppression

    Why?

    You know why they revived it, right?


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    #4
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,298 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    English in the No 1 business language of the world and it has been a huge advantage to our economy that we speak it here.

    You can try to revive Irish all you like but what would be the point. It would just complicate things and English would never go away because of the status it has. I can't ever see Ireland becoming a multilingual country because we have such a bad attitude in this country to speaking even a second language just like in the UK where on the continent many Germans, French, Belgians speak a second or even third language.


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    #5
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    How would we communicate with the world if we only spoke irish.
    Tbh the standard of teaching of irish has to improve and the attitude towards it would need to change for any large numbers to be able to speak it fluently.
    After this years leaving cert irish exam is over how many would be able to genuinely hold a conversation in irish that didnt consist of learned off sentences thst, imo, is what the irish leaving consists of.


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    #6
    JohnKyle39
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭JohnKyle39


    AllForIt wrote: »
    English in the No 1 business language of the world and it has been a huge advantage to our economy that we speak it here.

    You can try to revive Irish all you like but what would be the point. It would just complicate things and English would never go away because of the status it has. I can't ever see Ireland becoming a multilingual country because we have such a bad attitude in this country to speaking even a second language just like in the UK where on the continent many Germans, French, Belgians speak a second or even third language.


    There is no excuse. Dutch, Icelandic, Catalan and countless other languages were banned and their countries brought them back and revived them.

    We're lazy and cowards. It's pathetic how a country that was invaded for 800 years, it's people starved, abused and culturally raped just gives in so easy and abandons it's language even after we become independent. I could understand if we were still under British rule but we're not. There is no excuse.

    The other European countries and EU members don't speak English and are getting on fine.


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    #7
    Skatedude
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Skatedude


    Irish needs to be taught properly in schools,After so many years of classes, we should all be fluent in it but we were never actually taught to use or speak it, pretty much memorize and recital only. Or reading completely out of date literature that nobody was interested or relevant to today

    whereas french or German was also taught in schools, abit only a class or so a week, yet far more students could hold a conversation or at least ask basic questions and answers in french or german because we were taught using conversational and practical lessons.

    I would love to be able to speak Irish as it is part of our culture, but I'm also happy to be fluent in english which is probably the most useful language to have.


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    #8
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,116 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    JohnKyle39 wrote: »
    There is no excuse. Dutch, Icelandic, Catalan and countless other languages were banned and their countries brought them back and revived them.

    We're lazy and cowards. It's pathetic how a country that was invaded for 800 years, it's people starved, abused and culturally raped just gives in so easy and abandons it's language even after we become independent. I could understand if we were still under British rule but we're not. There is no excuse.

    The other European countries and EU members don't speak English and are getting on fine.




    Lead by example then.


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    #9
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    JohnKyle39 wrote: »
    There is no excuse. Dutch, Icelandic, Catalan and countless other languages were banned and their countries brought them back and revived them.

    We're lazy and cowards. It's pathetic how a country that was invaded for 800 years, it's people starved, abused and culturally raped just gives in so easy and abandons it's language even after we become independent. I could understand if we were still under British rule but we're not. There is no excuse.

    The other European countries and EU members don't speak English and are getting on fine.

    It's that kind of attitude entwined into teaching the language that didn't help.


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    #10
    JohnKyle39
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭JohnKyle39


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Lead by example then.

    You can't with only one person speaking it genius.


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    #11
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,182 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    JohnKyle39 wrote: »
    There is no excuse. Dutch, Icelandic, Catalan and countless other languages were banned and their countries brought them back and revived them.

    We're lazy and cowards. It's pathetic how a country that was invaded for 800 years, it's people starved, abused and culturally raped just gives in so easy and abandons it's language even after we become independent. I could understand if we were still under British rule but we're not. There is no excuse.

    The other European countries and EU members don't speak English and are getting on fine.

    There are millions of schoolkids in the EU learning English.
    The USA fought two wars against Britain to establish their independence... they speak English. They didnt feel the need to revert to Latin or adopt Cherokee.

    Maybe people are able to separate language and history?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #12
    JohnKyle39
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭JohnKyle39


    Ipso wrote: »
    It's that kind of attitude entwined into teaching the language that didn't help.

    They've been teaching it the same way for decades and are still doing it. We had to read stupid stories to learn it. Why can't it be taught like a normal language?Why won't people take a hint and realize that it isn't working?

    We need to take a leaf out of Wales book and do it the way they do.


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    #13
    JohnKyle39
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭JohnKyle39


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    There are millions of schoolkids in the EU learning English.
    The USA fought two wars against Britain to establish their independence... they speak English. They didnt feel the need to revert to Latin or adopt Cherokee.

    Maybe people are able to separate language and history?

    It's called being weak and giving up. We didn't bring Irish back because we're lazy, submissive and the English have made us not want to speak Irish. They changed the Irish psyche


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    #14
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    There are millions of schoolkids in the EU learning English.
    The USA fought two wars against Britain to establish their independence... they speak English. They didnt feel the need to revert to Latin or adopt Cherokee.

    Maybe people are able to separate language and history?
    Your comparison of the USA with Ireland doesn't stand up in this context. Very different cultural and linguistic histories.


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    #15
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    JohnKyle39 wrote: »
    They've been teaching it the same way for decades and are still doing it. We had to read stupid stories to learn it. Why can't it be taught like a normal language?Why won't people take a hint and realize that it isn't working?

    We need to take a leaf out of Wales book and do it the way they do.

    Great questions. I think the nationalist, anti English and oldest language in Europe and other sure we're great nonsense didn't help.
    It needs to be taught in conjunction with English, they are two different language groups (and English is a bastid language itself) and it needs to be explained why structure, verbs etc. are different instead of rhyming things like a Scientology convention.
    Maybe mix it with mythology and folklore and at a layer stage throw in some basic linguistics to show how it evolved etc. to keep it more interesting.


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    #16
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    You know not all Jews can speak Hebrew, right?


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    #17
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,182 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Your comparison of the USA with Ireland doesn't stand up in this context. Very different cultural and linguistic histories.

    As valid a reference as Hebrew.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #18
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    Do YOU speak Irish daily OP?


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    #19
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,182 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    You know not all Jews can speak Hebrew, right?

    Plus there is debate as to how dead a language it actually was.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #20
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    As valid a reference as Hebrew.

    Why?


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    #21
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,185 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    You know not all Jews can speak Hebrew, right?

    outside israel very few do


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    #22
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,298 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Lead by example then.

    Good point. Afaia Irish is being taught in primary school. Anyone who wants to take it further can. If one was a grounding in a language then you can take it further by studying it online these days. The fact is hardly anyone wants to and they can hardly be forced to as some seem to think they should.


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    #23
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    JohnKyle39 wrote: »
    We can't revive our own language, and choose to speak the language of a nation that caused us 700 years of oppression

    Why?

    John, how much Irish do you personally use. I don't know your family circumstances, but do you speak it at home?


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    #24
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,298 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Ursus Horribilis wrote: »
    Do YOU speak Irish daily OP?

    Fluent no doubt.


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    #25
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,185 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Plus there is debate as to how dead a language it actually was.

    as a living language it was very much dead. They had to create thousands of words just to make it useful for everyday life.


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    #26
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    Giz us a cúpla focail there.


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    #27
    JohnKyle39
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭JohnKyle39


    feargale wrote: »
    John, how much Irish do you personally use. I don't know your family circumstances, but do you speak it at home?

    1. My name isn't John.

    2. I don't use it that much as I don't live in the gaeltacht


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    #28
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    JohnKyle39 wrote: »
    1. My name isn't John.

    2. I don't use it that much as I don't live in the gaeltacht

    Are you a member of Conradh na Gaeilge?

    https://cnag.ie/en/


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    #29
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    JohnKyle39 wrote: »
    1. My name isn't John.

    2. I don't use it that much as I don't live in the gaeltacht

    I don't live in the Gaeltacht and use it most days. I'm conversational but still learning . What I've learnt I've learnt most of it on my phone.


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    #30
    JohnKyle39
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭JohnKyle39


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    I don't live in the Gaeltacht and use it most days. I'm conversational but still learning . What I've learnt I've learnt most of it on my phone.

    I don't really use it because nobody around me speaks it.


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    #31
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    as a living language it was very much dead. They had to create thousands of words just to make it useful for everyday life.

    If you want to find a language today that isn't peppered with English words and expressions you will need to visit somewhere like the jungles of Brazil or Papua-New Guinea.
    To give you an example of what I have encountered in my travels:
    Dutch "bumper to bumper."
    Maltese " life choices" and "mothers' day."


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