The Jews can revive a dead language reserved for ceremonial purposes

JohnKyle39

We can't revive our own language, and choose to speak the language of a nation that caused us 700 years of oppression

Why?

Ulysses Gaze

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

We can't revive our own language, and choose to speak the language of a nation that caused us 700 years of oppression

Why?

What's your opinion?

ohnonotgmail

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

We can't revive our own language, and choose to speak the language of a nation that caused us 700 years of oppression

Why?

You know why they revived it, right?

AllForIt

English in the No 1 business language of the world and it has been a huge advantage to our economy that we speak it here.

You can try to revive Irish all you like but what would be the point. It would just complicate things and English would never go away because of the status it has. I can't ever see Ireland becoming a multilingual country because we have such a bad attitude in this country to speaking even a second language just like in the UK where on the continent many Germans, French, Belgians speak a second or even third language.

Rubberchikken

How would we communicate with the world if we only spoke irish.
Tbh the standard of teaching of irish has to improve and the attitude towards it would need to change for any large numbers to be able to speak it fluently.
After this years leaving cert irish exam is over how many would be able to genuinely hold a conversation in irish that didnt consist of learned off sentences thst, imo, is what the irish leaving consists of.

JohnKyle39

AllForIt wrote: »

English in the No 1 business language of the world and it has been a huge advantage to our economy that we speak it here.

You can try to revive Irish all you like but what would be the point. It would just complicate things and English would never go away because of the status it has. I can't ever see Ireland becoming a multilingual country because we have such a bad attitude in this country to speaking even a second language just like in the UK where on the continent many Germans, French, Belgians speak a second or even third language.

There is no excuse. Dutch, Icelandic, Catalan and countless other languages were banned and their countries brought them back and revived them.

We're lazy and cowards. It's pathetic how a country that was invaded for 800 years, it's people starved, abused and culturally raped just gives in so easy and abandons it's language even after we become independent. I could understand if we were still under British rule but we're not. There is no excuse.

The other European countries and EU members don't speak English and are getting on fine.

Skatedude

Irish needs to be taught properly in schools,After so many years of classes, we should all be fluent in it but we were never actually taught to use or speak it, pretty much memorize and recital only. Or reading completely out of date literature that nobody was interested or relevant to today

whereas french or German was also taught in schools, abit only a class or so a week, yet far more students could hold a conversation or at least ask basic questions and answers in french or german because we were taught using conversational and practical lessons.

I would love to be able to speak Irish as it is part of our culture, but I'm also happy to be fluent in english which is probably the most useful language to have.

Donald Trump

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

There is no excuse. Dutch, Icelandic, Catalan and countless other languages were banned and their countries brought them back and revived them.

We're lazy and cowards. It's pathetic how a country that was invaded for 800 years, it's people starved, abused and culturally raped just gives in so easy and abandons it's language even after we become independent. I could understand if we were still under British rule but we're not. There is no excuse.

The other European countries and EU members don't speak English and are getting on fine.

Lead by example then.

Ipso

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

There is no excuse. Dutch, Icelandic, Catalan and countless other languages were banned and their countries brought them back and revived them.

We're lazy and cowards. It's pathetic how a country that was invaded for 800 years, it's people starved, abused and culturally raped just gives in so easy and abandons it's language even after we become independent. I could understand if we were still under British rule but we're not. There is no excuse.

The other European countries and EU members don't speak English and are getting on fine.

It's that kind of attitude entwined into teaching the language that didn't help.

JohnKyle39

Donald Trump wrote: »

Lead by example then.

You can't with only one person speaking it genius.

odyssey06

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

There is no excuse. Dutch, Icelandic, Catalan and countless other languages were banned and their countries brought them back and revived them.

We're lazy and cowards. It's pathetic how a country that was invaded for 800 years, it's people starved, abused and culturally raped just gives in so easy and abandons it's language even after we become independent. I could understand if we were still under British rule but we're not. There is no excuse.

The other European countries and EU members don't speak English and are getting on fine.

There are millions of schoolkids in the EU learning English.
The USA fought two wars against Britain to establish their independence... they speak English. They didnt feel the need to revert to Latin or adopt Cherokee.

Maybe people are able to separate language and history?

JohnKyle39

Ipso wrote: »

It's that kind of attitude entwined into teaching the language that didn't help.

They've been teaching it the same way for decades and are still doing it. We had to read stupid stories to learn it. Why can't it be taught like a normal language?Why won't people take a hint and realize that it isn't working?

We need to take a leaf out of Wales book and do it the way they do.

JohnKyle39

odyssey06 wrote: »

There are millions of schoolkids in the EU learning English.
The USA fought two wars against Britain to establish their independence... they speak English. They didnt feel the need to revert to Latin or adopt Cherokee.

Maybe people are able to separate language and history?

It's called being weak and giving up. We didn't bring Irish back because we're lazy, submissive and the English have made us not want to speak Irish. They changed the Irish psyche

Professor Moriarty

odyssey06 wrote: »

There are millions of schoolkids in the EU learning English.
The USA fought two wars against Britain to establish their independence... they speak English. They didnt feel the need to revert to Latin or adopt Cherokee.

Maybe people are able to separate language and history?

Your comparison of the USA with Ireland doesn't stand up in this context. Very different cultural and linguistic histories.

Ipso

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

They've been teaching it the same way for decades and are still doing it. We had to read stupid stories to learn it. Why can't it be taught like a normal language?Why won't people take a hint and realize that it isn't working?

We need to take a leaf out of Wales book and do it the way they do.

Great questions. I think the nationalist, anti English and oldest language in Europe and other sure we're great nonsense didn't help.
It needs to be taught in conjunction with English, they are two different language groups (and English is a bastid language itself) and it needs to be explained why structure, verbs etc. are different instead of rhyming things like a Scientology convention.
Maybe mix it with mythology and folklore and at a layer stage throw in some basic linguistics to show how it evolved etc. to keep it more interesting.

bodice ripper

You know not all Jews can speak Hebrew, right?

odyssey06

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Your comparison of the USA with Ireland doesn't stand up in this context. Very different cultural and linguistic histories.

As valid a reference as Hebrew.

Ursus Horribilis

Do YOU speak Irish daily OP?

odyssey06

bodice ripper wrote: »

You know not all Jews can speak Hebrew, right?

Plus there is debate as to how dead a language it actually was.

Professor Moriarty

odyssey06 wrote: »

As valid a reference as Hebrew.

Why?

ohnonotgmail

bodice ripper wrote: »

You know not all Jews can speak Hebrew, right?

outside israel very few do

AllForIt

Donald Trump wrote: »

Lead by example then.

Good point. Afaia Irish is being taught in primary school. Anyone who wants to take it further can. If one was a grounding in a language then you can take it further by studying it online these days. The fact is hardly anyone wants to and they can hardly be forced to as some seem to think they should.

feargale

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

We can't revive our own language, and choose to speak the language of a nation that caused us 700 years of oppression

Why?

John, how much Irish do you personally use. I don't know your family circumstances, but do you speak it at home?

AllForIt

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Do YOU speak Irish daily OP?

Fluent no doubt.

ohnonotgmail

odyssey06 wrote: »

Plus there is debate as to how dead a language it actually was.

as a living language it was very much dead. They had to create thousands of words just to make it useful for everyday life.

Ursus Horribilis

Giz us a cúpla focail there.

JohnKyle39

feargale wrote: »

John, how much Irish do you personally use. I don't know your family circumstances, but do you speak it at home?

1. My name isn't John.

2. I don't use it that much as I don't live in the gaeltacht

Ulysses Gaze

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

1. My name isn't John.

2. I don't use it that much as I don't live in the gaeltacht

Are you a member of Conradh na Gaeilge?

https://cnag.ie/en/

LeinsterDub

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

1. My name isn't John.

2. I don't use it that much as I don't live in the gaeltacht

I don't live in the Gaeltacht and use it most days. I'm conversational but still learning . What I've learnt I've learnt most of it on my phone.

JohnKyle39

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I don't live in the Gaeltacht and use it most days. I'm conversational but still learning . What I've learnt I've learnt most of it on my phone.

I don't really use it because nobody around me speaks it.

feargale

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

as a living language it was very much dead. They had to create thousands of words just to make it useful for everyday life.

If you want to find a language today that isn't peppered with English words and expressions you will need to visit somewhere like the jungles of Brazil or Papua-New Guinea.
To give you an example of what I have encountered in my travels:
Dutch "bumper to bumper."
Maltese " life choices" and "mothers' day."

ohnonotgmail

feargale wrote: »

If you want to find a language today that isn't peppered with English words and expressions you will need to visit somewhere like the jungles of Brazil or Papua-New Guinea.
To give you an example of what I have encountered in my travels:
Dutch "bumper to bumper."
Maltese " life choices" and "mothers' day."

while that is true those other languages didnt have to come up with them all practically overnight.

Pugzilla

Irish was the dominant language in this country up until 19th century, even after several hundred years of British occupation, but it has seen a steady decline since then. A combination of British cultural policies and famine decimated the more rural Irish speaking areas.

I'm a fluent speaker myself, but I can't see it being turned around unfortunately. There's almost no opportunities outside several tiny gaeltacht areas to use it in real life. British and American language/culture is so ingrained here now.

Had Ireland gained independence earlier, then the language could have been saved.

briany

It's not a comparison. There was a *need* for Hebrew in Israel at the inception of its state because you had Jews coming into it from all over the world, all speaking different languages. To be a united people, they needed a common language, and Hebrew was a natural choice, given its universality throughout the Jewish world as a religious lingua franca.

If you could devise a similar need for the Irish language in Ireland, you might have something, and there was some really half-arsed incentives devised to this end at the inception of the Irish state, but they never really worked out. Since then, the idea of Irish regaining parity with English has remained basically a nice idea and little else.

What are the advantages, right now, of speaking Irish?

Impress some foreigners, maybe

Feel a general sense of cultural superiority

If you have a fellow Gaelgeoir, you can have a sort of secret code

Become an Irish teacher

Nice perks, but not really going to be a goer unless you already have a passion for it. A bit like learning the viola.

pleas advice

Oy vey!

Conservatory

You need to make it sexy.

Maybe fifty shades of grey could be made in Irish.

odyssey06

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Why?

Ireland, Usa and Israel were all established via forceful rebellion against the British Empire.

We could have our own language and still be a part of the UK. So I dont see how our use of English points to us being lazy or submissive.
Jewish people could still be nomads without a state of Israel to call home but speaking Hebrew... would that make them any more or less lazy or submissive?

RobbingBandit

Revive the hedge schools and grave side orations my eyes are gone from diabetic complications so I will lead the troops into battle but this time we fight our own oppressive leaders who themselves have grown to be like the crown and English aristocracy once was absentee landlords growing fat off our suffering and giving little to nothing in return, we need to reclaim this land of ours for ourselves and not let Ireland lose its own identity  Éirinn go Brách.

JohnKyle39

.

LeinsterDub

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

I don't really use it because nobody around me speaks it.

Family and friends? Facebook, WhatsApp and Twitter have loads of Irish content. Have you been to An Club or a Pop Up Gaelicteach?

_CreeD_

Language is a tool, nothing more, if that tool no longer fits it's intended purpose and there is a more common and useful one in place then let the old one go.
The Language itself is not part of our heritage or our pride, what it was used to express is and that can be much more widely appreciated in a common tongue.

feargale

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

1. My name isn't John.

I do beg your pardon. I was basing that on your username. What would you like to be called?

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

2. I don't use it that much as I don't live in the gaeltacht

You don't need to live in the Gaeltacht to move in Irish-speaking circles. I watch alot of TG4 and I read a bit of Irish. Occasionally I get to a Gaeltacht.. I spent a good part of my life dealing with the public and I used Irish when requested to do so.
But one thing I don't do is denigrate people who have no interest in the Irish language. Just about every Western European democracy now recognises that the language you choose to speak is your own business, just like the religion you practice (or not) is your business.
Many years ago an Irish government minister said that the way to promote Irish is to speak it, not to speak about it. Do you know that there are Iriah language threads in Boards.ie. You could start one. Be sure to make it interesting.
I usually find myself in the middle in these threads about the language. Personally I would prohibit those who don't want it from learning it. On the other hand I abhor the gratuitously insulting comments on Irish that some posters have made on previous threads.
Having said that, I have to say that thus far in this thread those who are out of sympathy with the language have made their points in a cogent and respectful manner.

Filmer Paradise

No point. Aside from a few fanatical Language Hawks, Irish language teachers/translators & people in rapidly dwindling Gaelteacht areas with the begging bowl out for grants.........No one really cares.

Why would they?

hognef

feargale wrote: »

If you want to find a language today that isn't peppered with English words and expressions you will need to visit somewhere like the jungles of Brazil or Papua-New Guinea.

Or just go to Iceland.

feargale

feargale wrote: »

Having said that, I have to say that thus far in this thread those who are out of sympathy with the language have made their points in a cogent and respectful manner.

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

No point. Aside from a few fanatical Language Hawks, Irish language teachers/translators & people in rapidly dwindling Gaelteacht areas with the begging bowl out for grants.........No one really cares.

Why would they?

Oops! Did I speak too soon?

hognef

JohnKyle39 wrote: »

There is no excuse. Dutch, Icelandic, Catalan and countless other languages were banned and their countries brought them back and revived them.

When was Icelandic banned and needed to be revived?

feargale

hognef wrote: »

Or just go to Iceland.

There too. Can you name another Indo-European one in Europe?

wexie

hognef wrote: »

When was Icelandic banned and needed to be revived?

or Dutch?

super_furry

I see Voat is leaking again.

ohnonotgmail

feargale wrote: »

There too. Can you name another Indo-Europen one in Europe?

Hungarian. They deliberately eliminated nearly all of their german loanwords.

feargale

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Hungarian. They deliberately eliminated nearly all of their german loanwords.

Aha! Not Indo-European, my friend.