Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

Alkers · 20-06-2019 12:24am

I am amazed at the mark-up most of the installers are charging!

From actual quotes I received:
2.275kW array no battery, net cost €3,700.
2.6kW array & 2.8kWh battery, net cost €4,550.

These are the most competitive quotes I can get via the grant.

Researching an installation outside of the grant, it would cost me circa €3,600 + VAT + labour for a similar system to the battery system above. That's probably a no brainer to go through the grant comparing those prices but means the installer is earning €1,000 plus the €2,800 of the grant to cover VAT, labour and profit. Seems rich to me.

If not going through the grant, the battery doesn't even come close to being economically viable, especially if you have a night meter.

A 2.4kW system similar to the one listed first above would come in at around €1,600 + VAT + labour, which will extremely easily come in below the €3,600 price via the grant - am I missing something?

If not going through the grant, it probably makes more sense to go with a smaller array now to tackle the base load of the house and then add more panels once the FIT is announced / introduced. Does anyone know how flexible it is to design a system that will accommodate further panels at a later date or does the inverter have to be sized to suit the array? Can you run one string into the inverter and then add another string at a later date or does this compromise efficiency? Can you have two separate inverters for different strings / arrays?

My ideal system would be maybe 900w / 1200w array now, then doubling that when FIT arrives and then possibly another 2 or 4 panels facing east and west on the garage if that's feasible also.

jimmyging · 20-06-2019 7:03am

Alkers wrote: »

I am amazed at the mark-up most of the installers are charging!

From actual quotes I received:
2.275kW array no battery, net cost €3,700.
2.6kW array & 2.8kWh battery, net cost €4,550.

These are the most competitive quotes I can get via the grant.

Researching an installation outside of the grant, it would cost me circa €3,600 + VAT + labour for a similar system to the battery system above. That's probably a no brainer to go through the grant comparing those prices but means the installer is earning €1,000 plus the €2,800 of the grant to cover VAT, labour and profit. Seems rich to me.

If not going through the grant, the battery doesn't even come close to being economically viable, especially if you have a night meter.

A 2.4kW system similar to the one listed first above would come in at around €1,600 + VAT + labour, which will extremely easily come in below the €3,600 price via the grant - am I missing something?

If not going through the grant, it probably makes more sense to go with a smaller array now to tackle the base load of the house and then add more panels once the FIT is announced / introduced. Does anyone know how flexible it is to design a system that will accommodate further panels at a later date or does the inverter have to be sized to suit the array? Can you run one string into the inverter and then add another string at a later date or does this compromise efficiency? Can you have two separate inverters for different strings / arrays?

My ideal system would be maybe 900w / 1200w array now, then doubling that when FIT arrives and then possibly another 2 or 4 panels facing east and west on the garage if that's feasible also.

This is pretty much what I am thinking as well . The grant is well intentioned but has bypassed the consumer . You will need to oversize your inverter initially I would imagine to future proof adding extra array .

wexfordman2 · 22-06-2019 12:04am

40kwh today. 22kwh consumed including what the eddi sent to the immersion.

gally74 · 22-06-2019 6:00am

wexfordman2 wrote: »

40kwh today. 22kwh consumed including what the eddi sent to the immersion.

To think you could probably drive 150 kms on what you exported,

Evd-Burner · 22-06-2019 9:18am

gally74 wrote: »

To think you could probably drive 150 kms on what you exported,

Not in my Leaf you couldn't

, be lucky to get 100km.

Neil. J. F · 24-06-2019 6:43pm

kceire wrote: »

Current offer from Next Gen Power

Taking the leap with the above company (system as advertised).
Was impressed with the salesman/owner of the company.
Had the invertor, batteries, eddi installed last week and panels due to be installed later this week. The work so far looks good, the electricians were very efficient and very tidy. Looking forward to generating some power!
Will keep you all updated.

AidenL · 29-06-2019 3:32pm

Must be lots of generation these days !

rolion · 03-07-2019 4:47pm

AidenL wrote: »

Must be lots of generation these days !

yes...VERY good for the boys in ESB... gavein 10Kwh and still flowing down the road here...good for the bank account enviros...

Water John · 03-07-2019 7:28pm

So you're donating 25/30% of your production to Ireland Inc, if my reading is correct. You are a great patriot.

air · 03-07-2019 10:59pm

I'm sure everyone is well aware but just in case it's not obvious to everyone.

The spilling of domestic PV into the grid doesn't even approach a rounding error and nobody is benefitting financially from it.

phester28 · 03-07-2019 11:17pm

Just looking for feedback. Getting quotes now but, as i have slates and not tiles installers are saying ohhh thats going to be extra. about 20% extra. They say tiles are much quicker and slates are just too slow and hard work.

air · 04-07-2019 12:11am

Slates are a ball ache of the highest order all right in fairness, 20% extra seems a reasonable premium.

Alkers · 04-07-2019 9:44am

Still tackling various quotes for a system to try and get the best value.
The best quote I've managed now is by getting a price for installing a system supplied by me but the installation still seems extremely expensive:
1600+vat for a 4 panel array or 2500+vat for an 8 panel array with a battey.

air · 04-07-2019 10:03am

That does sound high, is your roof particularly high or difficult to access?

Alkers · 04-07-2019 10:08am

air wrote: »

That does sound high, is your roof particularly high or difficult to access?

No, standard 3-bed terraced house in Dublin 12, single storey extension to rear and lane access to back garden.

air · 04-07-2019 10:11am

Slated roof or a difficult run to the fuse board maybe? Have the people quoting surveyed?

rolion · 04-07-2019 10:24am

air wrote: »

I'm sure everyone is well aware but just in case it's not obvious to everyone.

The spilling of domestic PV into the grid doesn't even approach a rounding error and nobody is benefitting financially from it.

That is a big statement,i hope you can back it up with some figures.
Dont want to start a war, imagine the whole new estates injecting for free electricity day time, feeding other houses and so on.I will be curious to make a research how that really practical works...

Injected 12KWh ysterday,over 10 hours time.Thats 1,200W per hour,i will say 4 houses on my street benefitted of my panels.
I been self sufficient of my PVs whole day,until 7pm and exported...well,that was a good exception day.

i am happy,proud,patriot or just making somebody rich with my fcuking panels !?

Alkers · 04-07-2019 10:28am

air wrote: »

Slated roof or a difficult run to the fuse board maybe? Have the people quoting surveyed?

Tiled roof, fuse board in kitchen but not a difficult run from attic. Everyone except the cheapest (installation quote above) has visited the house but at this stage I know what they look for and am explaining the layout to them on phone and via email.

wexfordman2 · 04-07-2019 10:56am

air wrote: »

I'm sure everyone is well aware but just in case it's not obvious to everyone.

The spilling of domestic PV into the grid doesn't even approach a rounding error and nobody is benefitting financially from it.

Yeah, would imagine that a hell of a lot more installations need to be installed and pushing out to the grid before it even makes a dent in the overall figures.

They wont be powering down power stations any time soon due to domestic solar Pv exports

uck51js9zml2yt · 04-07-2019 11:38am

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Yeah, would imagine that a hell of a lot more installations need to be installed and pushing out to the grid before it even makes a dent in the overall figures.

They wont be powering down power stations any time soon due to domestic solar Pv exports

I thought Rolion could have serviced the grid with his set up. He just needs to divert from his greenhouse:D

Calahonda52 · 04-07-2019 12:08pm

air wrote: »

I'm sure everyone is well aware but just in case it's not obvious to everyone.

The spilling of domestic PV into the grid doesn't even approach a rounding error and nobody is benefitting financially from it.

This quasi-nihilistic post epitomises the mountain that needs to be climbed in terms of changing folks behaviours and attitudes to our impact on the planet.

1: We have to start somewhere so pi$$ing in on / dissing home owner initiatives such as described here is not just unhelpful, it is damaging: we need to start somewhere.
The reason for this is self-evident in this item.
https://www.ted.com/talks/alex_laskey_how_behavioral_science_can_lower_your_energy_bill?language=en

2: There IS a financial benefit, because every kWh of free elec, or thermal energy that is generated, is a kWh that does not need to be imported and paid for in foreign ccy.

3: when one factors in distribution losses, it could be 2.5 kWh

4: so while the unsurprising focus on personal financial gain is self evident in your post, the argument for such initiatives is much, much broader.

5: So rather than resignation and negativity, lets look at what is possible

air · 04-07-2019 12:52pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

This quasi-nihilistic post epitomises the mountain that needs to be climbed in terms of changing folks behaviours and attitudes to our impact on the planet.

No, it doesn't. I wasn't making any inference as regards the environmental impact. Any export is an environmental positive.

Calahonda52 wrote: »

1: We have to start somewhere so pi$$ing in on / dissing home owner initiatives such as described here is not just unhelpful, it is damaging: we need to start somewhere.
The reason for this is self-evident in this item.
https://www.ted.com/talks/alex_laskey_how_behavioral_science_can_lower_your_energy_bill?language=en

I never inferred any of this. I've PV on my own home.

Calahonda52 wrote: »

2: There IS a financial benefit, because every kWh of free elec, or thermal energy that is generated, is a kWh that does not need to be imported and paid for in foreign ccy.]

I was specifically referring to domestic export to the grid that isn't paid for, and my point was that the amounts involved are infinitesimal in the grand scheme of things. The tone of posts around here sometimes seems to imply that there is a grand conspiracy at play and that "the man" is somehow making a fortune on this.

Calahonda52 wrote: »

3: when one factors in distribution losses, it could be 2.5 kWh

Nonsense.

Calahonda52 wrote: »

4: so while the unsurprising focus on personal financial gain is self evident in your post, the argument for such initiatives is much, much broader.

5: So rather than resignation and negativity, lets look at what is possible

Again, just misconstruing what I said completely (clue - I made a short concise point).

air · 04-07-2019 1:10pm

Alkers wrote: »

Tiled roof, fuse board in kitchen but not a difficult run from attic. Everyone except the cheapest (installation quote above) has visited the house but at this stage I know what they look for and am explaining the layout to them on phone and via email.

Sounds very easy to be honest. I think you might just be getting high quotes because companies are busy on grant jobs where they also make a margin on the equipment supply and yours is a small job.
If you're going ahead DIY non grant, 8 panels and no battery would be the best bang for your buck by far.

Gumbo · 04-07-2019 3:17pm

Alkers wrote: »

Still tackling various quotes for a system to try and get the best value.
The best quote I've managed now is by getting a price for installing a system supplied by me but the installation still seems extremely expensive:
1600+vat for a 4 panel array or 2500+vat for an 8 panel array with a battey.

Scaffolding?
Labour
Warranty

Alkers · 04-07-2019 3:22pm

kceire wrote: »

Scaffolding?
Labour
Warranty

They've all said it's a day's installation so it still seems very steep for me. Would the warranty not relate to the equipment provider (supplied by me inc. all cabling) as opposed to the installer?

The above items don't justify the significant increase for the battery system either.

Neil. J. F · 05-07-2019 10:16am

Still waiting for our system to be connected up :-(
Electrical equipment installed first over two weeks ago, followed by panels ten days later.
Different sparks called yesterday to connect the DC, only he hadn't been informed by his manager that he needed a heavy duty drill in order to run the cable through a cavity wall to connect up. So after an hour and several failed attempts to punch through the wall, he had no option but to leave and is now to come back some time next week.
This company have very good hardware and the tradesmen seem very good but they are all over the place when it comes to logistics & communication with customers.
The summer may be over before we get connected!

rolion · 05-07-2019 12:07pm

air wrote: »

No, it doesn't. I wasn't making any inference as regards the environmental impact. Any export is an environmental positive.

I never inferred any of this. I've PV on my own home.

I was specifically referring to domestic export to the grid that isn't paid for, and my point was that the amounts involved are infinitesimal in the grand scheme of things. The tone of posts around here sometimes seems to imply that there is a grand conspiracy at play and that "the man" is somehow making a fortune on this.

Nonsense.

Again, just misconstruing what I said completely (clue - I made a short concise point).

My ESB certified approved smart meter reads the reverse energy generated by my meter and PVs.
Where are those electrons going i wonder ?

I've double cheked ...there is no filter or restrictions at the boundary level...as they travel from PV to my home appliance,what stops them travelling to my neighbour(S) house(S) and power their appliances !?

And i am sure that works this way as the minim condition of any inveter is islanding, to stop pushing the electrons up the grid / cabling in case there is work carried over...

So,yes, i have shares in ESB but only for the bonuses side... one way pay.

LE

AND, those 536KWh upstream "costs" my neighbours €97 at .18c a unit.Their meter(S) registered as a valid consumption.
Multiply with how many PV installs around "the island" and you get the picture of the overall FIT.

antoinolachtnai · 05-07-2019 3:42pm

rolion wrote: »

My ESB certified approved smart meter reads the reverse energy generated by my meter and PVs.
Where are those electrons going i wonder ?

I've double cheked ...there is no filter or restrictions at the boundary level...as they travel from PV to my home appliance,what stops them travelling to my neighbour(S) house(S) and power their appliances !?

And i am sure that works this way as the minim condition of any inveter is islanding, to stop pushing the electrons up the grid / cabling in case there is work carried over...

So,yes, i have shares in ESB but only for the bonuses side... one way pay.

LE

AND, those 536KWh upstream "costs" my neighbours €97 at .18c a unit.Their meter(S) registered as a valid consumption.
Multiply with how many PV installs around "the island" and you get the picture of the overall FIT.

Any estimate on how many PV installations are there?

The way this is accounted for is that the unmetered solar generation goes towards the residual error volume (which is basically the gap between the loss adjusted metered generation and the loss adjusted metered consumption), resulting in the Residual Error Volume charge being reduced for the suppliers buying energy on behalf of domestic and SME customers. It might help to think of this as 'negative theft'.

See https://www.cru.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/cer11099.pdf and the Trading and Settlement Code Part A Para 4.91A

n97 mini · 05-07-2019 11:38pm

Neil. J. F wrote: »

Still waiting for our system to be connected up :-(
Electrical equipment installed first over two weeks ago, followed by panels ten days later.
Different sparks called yesterday to connect the DC, only he hadn't been informed by his manager that he needed a heavy duty drill in order to run the cable through a cavity wall to connect up. So after an hour and several failed attempts to punch through the wall, he had no option but to leave and is now to come back some time next week.
This company have very good hardware and the tradesmen seem very good but they are all over the place when it comes to logistics & communication with customers.
The summer may be over before we get connected!

Where is your inverter? The DC side is between panels and inverter, which would typically be sited in the attic.

Neil. J. F · 06-07-2019 12:13am

n97 mini wrote: »

Where is your inverter? The DC side is between panels and inverter, which would typically be sited in the attic.

It’s in a flat roofed garage beside the fuse board & meter.

garbanzo · 06-07-2019 5:05pm

Great thread, thanks everyone. I am starting the process of getting quotes. I have an east-west facing aspect so they suggested 4 panels on each side. Proposal is:

3.2kwp Solar PV system
8x 400w LG panels
Hybrid inverter
Fitting etc
BER Cert

€6,700 less SEAI grants of €1,400 = €5,300 including VAT.

I’m mulling over whether to go with a battery as they are expensive. The Rep recommended a 3.5 kw Pylontech Li Ion one. Not sure if that is too big/small? About €1,600 for it, fitted. Would welcome any perspectives on that, whether the size is adequate and whether it is worth getting.

Motivation for doing this is it’s the right thing and we can save ourselves some money. Would welcome any feedback.

Cheers

g

Evd-Burner · 06-07-2019 6:44pm

You would get an extra 1700 (maybe another 350 for the 0.5kw) worth of grant for getting it but you would also need a more expensive inverter.

gally74 · 06-07-2019 7:33pm

Evd-Burner wrote: »

You would get an extra 1700 (maybe another 350 for the 0.5kw) worth of grant for getting it but you would also need a more expensive inverter.

Try enphase micro inverter s

unkel · 06-07-2019 10:09pm

Evd-Burner wrote: »

You would get an extra 1700 (maybe another 350 for the 0.5kw) worth of grant for getting it but you would also need a more expensive inverter.

He's already included a hybrid inverter.

That means he'll get another €1000 subsidy for the battery and for the extra over 2kwp, so 1.2kwp * 700 = €840, or €1840 in total so it will be cheaper to add the battery now

€5300 -/- €240 = 5 grand, not a bad price for a battery system

@garbanzo, I would recommend that battery size too. You can very easily add another unit in a few years time when hopefully they are a bit cheaper.

Alkers · 06-07-2019 11:56pm

unkel wrote: »

He's already included a hybrid inverter.

That means he'll get another €1000 subsidy for the battery and for the extra over 2kwp, so 1.2kwp * 700 = €840, or €1840 in total so it will be cheaper to add the battery now

€5300 -/- €240 = 5 grand, not a bad price for a battery system

@garbanzo, I would recommend that battery size too. You can very easily add another unit in a few years time when hopefully they are a bit cheaper.

Would you not just get the smallest battery you can from that supplier (for the grant) and then you can always add further batteries if needed based on your usage profile?

unkel · 07-07-2019 12:31am

Alkers wrote: »

Would you not just get the smallest battery you can from that supplier (for the grant) and then you can always add further batteries if needed based on your usage profile?

You could. But if you get the Pylontech US2000 (2.4kWh), you can only charge / discharge it at 25A

You can charge / discharge the US3000 at 37A

Makes quite a difference. If you put a single device on like a dishwasher, with the US2000 (limited to 1.2kW) you are already buying electricity from the grid even if your house has a small base load. Also with the US2000, a lot more of your production will not be used and send straight to the grid, even with an empty battery with a large PV array

The US3000 is a nice compromise. I like whoever recommended it.

gally74 · 08-07-2019 9:51pm

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/glanbia-set-to-roll-out-solar-energy-systems-to-farmers/

Water John · 08-07-2019 10:01pm

Active8 are the suppliers. Farmers can get a TAMS grant on the installation. May be around 40%.

unkel · 08-07-2019 10:07pm

Water John wrote: »

Active8 are the suppliers. Farmers can get a TAMS grant on the installation. May be around 40%.

Eh yeah, but if they paid twice as much as they should to get the system installed..... :pac:

rolion · 08-07-2019 11:02pm

Good luck...

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057985852/1/#post110350998

Neil. J. F · 10-07-2019 3:43pm

Still waiting for our system to be connected up, three weeks after the electrical work started. Have been assured it will be completed tomorrow.
The only conciliation is that I know the value of the equipment now installed exceeds the deposit paid. Will not be paying the balance until BER is completed and all documents have been uploaded by this company to the SEAI!

Neil. J. F · 13-07-2019 12:12pm

Yippee! Finally got connected last Thursday.
Everything seems to be working, if only the sun would shine!
A very slow process getting everything installed, 23 days from start to finish.
Was going to hold off paying the balance but they will not do BER or upload documents to the SEAI until fully paid.
Catch 22!

wexfordman2 · 13-07-2019 1:32pm

Neil. J. F wrote: »

Yippee! Finally got connected last Thursday.
Everything seems to be working, if only the sun would shine!
A very slow process getting everything installed, 23 days from start to finish.
Was going to hold off paying the balance but they will not do BER or upload documents to the SEAI until fully paid.
Catch 22!

Happy days :-)

What size system did you get in the end. Even with moderate cloud cover today, I am producing excess, with battery fully charged, hot water tank boiling, and running dishwasher washing machine etc

My battery lasted until 5am this morning as well (partly due to "take away friday" so not running oven etc).

unkel · 13-07-2019 2:40pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Neil. J. F wrote: »

Yippee! Finally got connected last Thursday.
Everything seems to be working, if only the sun would shine!
A very slow process getting everything installed, 23 days from start to finish.
Was going to hold off paying the balance but they will not do BER or upload documents to the SEAI until fully paid.
Catch 22!

Happy days :-)

What size system did you get in the end. Even with moderate cloud cover today, I am producing excess, with battery fully charged, hot water tank boiling, and running dishwasher washing machine etc

My battery lasted until 5am this morning as well (partly due to "take away friday" so not running oven etc).

Time to buy an EV methinks

Neil. J. F · 13-07-2019 8:56pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Happy days :-)

What size system did you get in the end. Even with moderate cloud cover today, I am producing excess, with battery fully charged, hot water tank boiling, and running dishwasher washing machine etc

My battery lasted until 5am this morning as well (partly due to "take away friday" so not running oven etc).

4.5kw East West with 5.6kw battery

Neil. J. F · 14-07-2019 4:57pm

Has anyone any idea how much I should be generating with a 4.5kw East West split?
It's been sunny most of the day but only showing 5kwh production for the day so far.

Gumbo · 14-07-2019 5:35pm

Neil. J. F wrote: »

Has anyone any idea how much I should be generating with a 4.5kw East West split?
It's been sunny most of the day but only showing 5kwh production for the day so far.

I’m at just under 15 kWh for a 3 kw system facing due south today.

reklamos · 14-07-2019 5:45pm

Neil. J. F wrote: »

Has anyone any idea how much I should be generating with a 4.5kw East West split?
It's been sunny most of the day but only showing 5kwh production for the day so far.

That's low.
4.5W system facing south 27kWh at this point.

Neil. J. F · 14-07-2019 5:56pm

Yes, underwhelming performance, yet batteries have been charged and full tank of water heated since midday.
I think the data may be corrupted by the consumption meters installed as both have flashing red alarm lights.
Funny levels of demand for the house showing, as the only thing on is the tv. Demand spiking, then falling for no apparent reason.
It's that or one of the strings not working. Will have to contact the NGP tech guy tomorrow.

Gumbo · 14-07-2019 6:06pm

Neil. J. F wrote: »

Yes, underwhelming performance, yet batteries have been charged and full tank of water heated since midday.
I think the data may be corrupted by the consumption meters installed as both have flashing red alarm lights.
Funny levels of demand for the house showing, as the only thing on is the tv. Demand spiking, then falling for no apparent reason.
It's that or one of the strings not working. Will have to contact the NGP tech guy tomorrow.

Deffo something up there.
Get onto James as he’s the tech guy for NGP.
He knows his stuff with regards to the IT side of things.

Can you look at the daily graph and see what the kw spiked at?
For example, I can see mine spiked at 3.4kw a few times between 11 and 3 so I know all panels are functioning fine.

Check yours then you’ll know if it’s just a data transfer/ info issue.

Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

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