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SFC Final - Dublin v Mayo - *Read Mod Note in post #1 & #1393*

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    #32
    corny
    Registered Users Posts: 7,753 ✭✭✭corny


    One_Of_Shanks wrote: »
    I don't get this at all. I'll be bloody amazed if there is more than a few points between these going into the last knockings. Either way.

    I'm a Dub, I actually hope you're right but I think it will be mighty close and I wouldn't be in the least bit dismissive of Mayo.

    It's an All Ireland final, Mayo have way less pressure than us, they're the under-dog which can be a good thing, and there have been a million bigger upsets in sport than Mayo winning this.

    For Mayo to win they'll need to get everything spot on tactically and be at their best and out-work Dublin.

    No reason why that cannot happen.

    I'd rather be playing Tyrone (who Mayo beat) than be playing Mayo, personally.

    That stuff is irrelevant. Dublin don't do pressure or hype or any of that nonsense. They've proved it time and again. You'll get the usual performance from them on the day. Mayo are in a similar boat. The talk of curses and pressure is completely lost on the current team.

    I'm normally not big on predicting hammerings or one sided non events but i'm finding hard to make a case for a Mayo win. Objectively they've been average all season. Even in the Tyrone game the quality wasn't great. Its fine saying they have one big performance in them but if you're cold about it the form might actually point to Dublin winning comfortably.


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    #33
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

    It's an All Ireland final, Mayo have way less pressure than us, they're the under-dog which can be a good thing,

    Mayo may be the underdog but there's more pressure on them, most of this Dublin team have three all irelands under their belt while going for a double. The perceived logic is that doubles in the modern game are near impossible because a team can't keep up that level of hard work and commitment for two years on the trot. Dublin have managed the hard work and now they need to perform for 70 minutes or so the achieve something special

    Mayo on the other hand, fired a manager through player power and now, if they don't deliver, the players will have no one else to blame. They really can't afford to lose this and they've been prone to panicking this year.


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    #34
    Westernyelp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭Westernyelp


    gormdubhgorm wrote:
    I think this is going to be one of the most one sided all-ireland finals in recent history.

    gormdubhgorm wrote:
    Dublin have improved and have injected patience and calmness into thier play.

    gormdubhgorm wrote:
    I am starting to think the Dublin v Kerry Semi-Final was the final in all but name and was THE game to be at.

    gormdubhgorm wrote:
    Mayo have regressed.

    gormdubhgorm wrote:
    Strangely this Final almost seems like a side show.

    gormdubhgorm wrote:
    Mayo just going there trying to avoid getting hammered (on the pitch anyway).

    gormdubhgorm wrote:
    Dublin will be planning for the three in a row once the Dublin club championships finish.


    What's it like living under a bridge Mr troll?


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    #35
    One_Of_Shanks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭One_Of_Shanks


    @ Bambi, Corny,

    Fair enough. You think the pressure is on Mayo more so than Dublin then ok, I'm surprised by people saying that but each to their own.


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    #36
    ProudDUB
    Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    One_Of_Shanks wrote: »
    @ Bambi, Corny,

    Fair enough. You think the pressure is on Mayo more so than Dublin then ok, I'm surprised by people saying that but each to their own.

    Dublin are going for their 4th All Ireland this decade & have a very settled management set up. Mayo are going for their 1st AI in 60 odd years & are coming off a winter of player led, management drama.

    If you set everyones county allegiances (mine is pretty bloody obvious) and all the na na na, oneupmanship stuff going on, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what county is under the most pressure to deliver Sam this year.


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    #37
    One_Of_Shanks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭One_Of_Shanks


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    Dublin are going for their 4th All Ireland this decade & have a very settled management set up. Mayo are going for their 1st AI in 60 odd years & are coming off a winter of player led, management drama.

    If you set everyones county allegiances (mine is pretty bloody obvious) and all the na na na, oneupmanship stuff going on, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what county is under the most pressure to deliver Sam this year.

    You being serious?

    What I meant by pressure was the media, the tag of being favourites, the burden of expectation.
    That kind of pressure.

    I'm well aware that Mayo have gone donkeys years without a title, my missus is a Mayo lass.

    I was speaking from a Dublin point of view about people expecting us to win.

    I think you've taken me up wrong here.


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    #38
    ProudDUB
    Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    Yes, I am being serious. There is far less pressure on a county that has won the damm thing 3 times in the last 5 years, than there is on the county who hasn't won it since Moses was a boy. They are the cold hard facts.


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    #39
    corny
    Registered Users Posts: 7,753 ✭✭✭corny


    One_Of_Shanks wrote: »
    @ Bambi, Corny,

    Fair enough. You think the pressure is on Mayo more so than Dublin then ok, I'm surprised by people saying that but each to their own.

    I don't think there's more pressure on Mayo. I think 'pressure' (as in pressure of the build up) will be completely irrelevant to the performances on the day. The evidence would firmly point to that.

    Mayo are not going to perform poorly because players from their county lost an All Ireland 40 years ago. They've been a remarkably consistent side in the face of this 'pressure' for some time now. That won't change.

    Similarly, i can't think of a game where i thought Dublin underperformed because they couldn't handle the expectation or pressure. Not dealing with a small sample size with Dublin either. They've literally never lost when the top two inches were the decisive factor.


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    #40
    One_Of_Shanks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭One_Of_Shanks


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    Yes, I am being serious. There is far less pressure on a county that has won the damm thing 3 times in the last 5 years, than there is on the county who hasn't won it since Moses was a boy. They are the cold hard facts.

    If I'm playing for the team expected (by most of the country) to win then I feel more pressure than if I'm on the team expected to lose.

    Mayo should be approaching this saying everyone expects The Dubs to win, we'll go out and spoil the party.
    Leave the pressure on the favourites.

    The media, 30 other counties, everyone is fancying the Dubs. That brings its own pressure.

    Mayo are expected to lose anyway so where's the pressure?

    It's down to how you look at it I suppose but if im the mayo manager I'm telling my team the pressure is on Dublin.


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    #41
    One_Of_Shanks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭One_Of_Shanks


    corny wrote: »
    I don't think there's more pressure on Mayo. I think 'pressure' (as in pressure of the build up) will be completely irrelevant to the performances on the day. .

    Fair enough fella. :)

    I didn't mean to spark a debate about it anyway initially.

    Interesting replies all the same


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    #42
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,048 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    "Pressure", and its opposite, "hunger" are totally intangible.

    There is no way of measuring either before a game, and even after a game its not always clear whether one or other was a factor in the winning or losing of the game.


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    #43
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    One thing that massively favours the Dubs is the test that they got from Kerry. I don't have any inside knowledge of how Dublin training is going or anything, but I can well imagine that Cluxton, a notorious perfectionist, will have the team practising plan A, B, C and D for their kickouts.

    I can't see Mayo having the same success on his kickouts as Kerry managed, I can't see him getting rattled, and that's where about ten of Kerrys points came from in the minutes before half time. They'd have scored some points without it, but the game probably wouldn't have been close without Cluxton getting rattled.


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    #44
    Barlett
    Registered Users Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭Barlett


    I'm starting to think the people who believe Dublin have already won the final are either trolls or pretty don't watch football from one end of the year to the next bar a couple of 'big' games


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    #45
    Menoetius
    Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭Menoetius


    Barlett wrote: »
    I'm starting to think the people who believe Dublin have already won the final are either trolls or pretty don't watch football from one end of the year to the next bar a couple of 'big' games

    100% agree, nobody, in any sport, is unbeatable.

    Let's not forget this Mayo team took us to a replay last year, and we are an all star and the player of the year down in defense.

    Yes we are favourites, and rightly so, but to write Mayo off is crazy stuff.


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    #46
    mansize
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    Barlett wrote: »
    I'm starting to think the people who believe Dublin have already won the final are either trolls or pretty don't watch football from one end of the year to the next bar a couple of 'big' games

    http://www.oddschecker.com/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/all-ireland-senior-football-championship/winner

    The bookies have Dublin almost unbackable


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    #47
    Bunny Colvin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭Bunny Colvin


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    Yes, I am being serious. There is far less pressure on a county that has won the damm thing 3 times in the last 5 years, than there is on the county who hasn't won it since Moses was a boy. They are the cold hard facts.

    Don't think so. Dublin are clear favorites with the bookies. They are tipped by almost all pundits to win the game and get the 2IAR. Dublin fans aren't expecting Mayo to go up and win it especially with Mayo's form this year, we've almost stumbled into this final. The fact Mayo haven't won it since '51, means any Mayo supporter going up to Croke Park won't be overly confident - there's an air of "I'll believe it win I see it happen". I've seen us lose six finals in Croke Park (too young for '89) so there's no chance that there's any real expectation with most supporters. We've certainly a chance of winning it but that kind of thinking won't be transferred onto the players.

    The cold hard facts are there, if there is any pressure, it's on Dublin - not that it will affect them much.


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    #48
    One_Of_Shanks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭One_Of_Shanks


    Bunny Colvin wrote: »
    Don't think so. Dublin are clear favorites with the bookies. They are tipped by almost all pundits to win the game and get the 2IAR. Dublin fans aren't expecting Mayo to go up and win it especially with Mayo's form this year, we've almost stumbled into this final. The fact Mayo haven't won it since '51, means any Mayo supporter going up to Croke Park won't be overly confident - there's an air of "I'll believe it win I see it happen". I've seen us lose six finals in Croke Park (too young for '89) so there's no chance that there's any real expectation with most supporters. We've certainly a chance of winning it but that kind of thinking won't be transferred onto the players.

    The cold hard facts are there, if there is any pressure, it's on Dublin .

    Spot on


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    #49
    ArielAtom
    Registered Users Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭ArielAtom


    This is Mayo's to lose, to much pressure on the Dubs.


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    #50
    Bunny Colvin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭Bunny Colvin


    ArielAtom wrote: »
    This is Mayo's to lose, to much pressure on the Dubs.

    No need for the hyperbole. I was responding to ProudDub who thinks if there's any pressure then it's on Mayo. I don't think the 'cold hard facts' back his opinion up at all, it's the opposite actually.

    This Dublin team are well able to handle it, as we saw last week - so it's a mute argument anyway. If Mayo can get a lead up, then Dublin will have to respond (like they responded in the last quarter of last year's replay) but Mayo's job is too put them in that position again.


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    #51
    ArielAtom
    Registered Users Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭ArielAtom


    Bunny Colvin wrote: »
    No need for the hyperbole. I was responding to ProudDub who thinks if there's any pressure then it's on Mayo. I don't think the 'cold hard facts' back his opinion up at all, it's the opposite actually.

    This Dublin team are well able to handle it, as we saw last week - so it's a mute argument anyway. If Mayo can get a lead up, then Dublin will have to respond (like they responded in the last quarter of last year's replay) but Mayo's job is too put them in that position again.

    Not a hyperbole response. Mayo are lying in the long grass having underperformed all year, waiting to peak for the final. I think Mayo are going in as massive underdogs and have nothing to lose but a lot to win. However, JG will not let the panel buy into any of it.


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    #52
    Bunny Colvin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭Bunny Colvin


    ArielAtom wrote: »
    Not a hyperbole response. Mayo are lying in the long grass having underperformed all year, waiting to peak for the final. I think Mayo are going in as massive underdogs and have nothing to lose but a lot to win. However, JG will not let the panel buy into any of it.

    That wasn't a hyperbole? Come on :D

    Mayo are big underdogs. It's nothing to do with Jim Gavin buying anything either. The only way for Mayo to win it is to perform consistently for seventy minutes, keep the scoreboard ticking over, being ruthless in pressuring, tackling and winning 50/50 ball etc. If Mayo can do then it will be very close either way, the question is do Mayo have that kind of performance in them? The recent form book says 'no' but the caliber of player needed to put in a performance like that is certainly there. It's about a 5/2 shot imo - the bookies have it spot on.


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    #53
    PressRun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PressRun


    All this talk of pressure. There's no such thing as "no pressure", but the pressure won't be coming from outside the camp. I'm sure no one expects more from both groups of players than the players themselves. These are competitive people and high level athletes. The main pressure will come from within the two camps and I'm sure neither are radically different in that regard. They'll both be expecting big performances from themselves and there's probably very little criticism a journalist could heap on them that they wouldn't heap on themselves if they don't perform as they'd like.


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    #54
    yop
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 16,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭yop


    ArielAtom wrote: »
    This is Mayo's to lose, to much pressure on the Dubs.

    Ill leave this here from last time

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96872292&postcount=70
    Its Mayos to lose on Sat, all the momentum is with them, I'd say by 6+


    :D:D:D


    Dublin unbackable, going for 2 in a row, Mayo form poor in calendar year, this points to one thing and one thing now. ;)

    I remember 2012.
    http://www.livesport.ie/category/gaa-football/dublin-odds-on-for-all-ireland-semi-final-success-against-mayo-201208300003/

    I've been watching and going to various sports for close on 40 years now, of course there are favorites and underdogs but sometimes, and its rare, there are shocks.

    It could happen, no one is expecting it, but Mayo won't lie down, if they did they wouldn't come back year on year.


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    #55
    Call me Al
    Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    I agree yop. ...
    Some people on here have very short memories!


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    #56
    The flying mouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭The flying mouse


    Maybe some people here have short memories or are just colourblinded in there opinion's.

    This Dublin team over the last two seasons have really shown there form, Everything has been tried and thrown at them from every angle, Kerry,Cork,Tyrone,Mayo,Donegal they have beaten them all recently and done so quite convincingly in the overall picture of the games. There is always hype on the Dublin team in finals, always, There the team we love to hate and hate to love ,Everyone concedes that this Dublin team are something different, something special, They have proven it.

    Will they win on the 18th, most likely so, that's not taking it away from Mayo ,its just the way it looking on the forms of both teams recently. well that's the way a mouse sees it...



    Yes Dublin have certainly raised the bar in the game and imo ina good way.


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    #57
    castletownman
    Registered Users Posts: 11,058 ✭✭✭✭castletownman


    One thing I would say about Mayo this year, is that Stephen Rochford appears to be tactically fluid, and not afraid to change the set-up game on game. The started the championship with Kevin McLoughlin as a sweeper, and though that was kind of cutting of his nose to spite his face, Mayo bundled along the championship without much hype or expectation.

    In fact, they entered the game against Tyrone with most onlookers expecting the Red Hand to advance to the semis (and the final), but shook it up tactically by bringing in Barry Moran as some sort of hybrid sweeper/third midfielder.

    You can bet your bottom dollar, that he has some contingency plan that we haven't seen yet in place to use against the Dubs. Whether that is going man-on-man on the danger men up front, and playing AOS and Moran as a twin-threat at full forward, or even blocking up the middle third with them two, Parsons and Vaughan, remains to be seen. But surely, the players decision to dispense with the previous regime, is to be vindicated at the biggest stage of all.

    Bearing in mind, that they haven't hit the highs they usually hit at least once or twice a game in the championship since 2010, and that there is more in the likes of Higgins, Keegan, AOS and COC, then I think Mayo will be well capable of ending the curse.


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    #58
    Moo Moo Land
    Closed Accounts Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Moo Moo Land


    I think for Mayo to win, they need a lot of luck and a 2 or 3 soft/handy goals. However I am fairly certain Mayo will ship goals too.

    As with all GAA refs, the ref will keep it 'competitive' for as long as possible. A lot of luck and perhaps a late goal could bring Mayo an unlikey AI title. It would be great to see really.


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    #59
    PressRun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PressRun


    Why would goals need to be "soft/handy"?


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    #60
    yop
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 16,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭yop


    I was a bit bored there so I had a look at all the scores for both teams.
    This is the breakdown.

    For some reason Mayo liked to either concede 12 or 14 points!

    Goals.
    Mayo have been getting better return than Dublin on the goals side, hitting 1.6 goals per game but also only conceding 0.4 goals.
    Dublin have hit 1 goal average and conceded 1 goal average per game.

    Points
    Dublin lead that well, close on 20 points per game average, while conceding 11.
    Mayo then average 6 points less and concede 1 point more.


    If you want to take them averages on scoring alone then you'd see Mayo hit around 19 points, Dublin would win out by 4 points.

    It probably doesn't mean a lot on the day, but just some interesting numbers.



    Mayo 2:16 London - 0.9
    Mayo 0.12 - Galway 1.12
    Mayo 2-14 Fermanagh 1-12
    Mayo 2-17 Kildare 0-14
    Mayo 3-15 Westmeath 1-14
    Mayo 0-13 Tyrone 0-12
    Mayo 2-13 Tipp 0-14


    FOR:
    Goals: 11 - Points 100 AVERAGE: Goals: 1.6 - Points 14.3
    AGAINST:
    Goals: 3 - Points 85 AVERAGE: Goals: .4 - Points 12.1

    Dublin 2-21 Laois 2-10
    Dublin 0-21 Meath 0-11
    Dublin 2-19 Westmeath 0-10
    Dublin 1--15 Donegal 1-10
    Dublin 0-22 Kerry 2-14


    FOR:
    Goals: 5 - Points 98 AVERAGE: Goals: 1 - Points 19.6
    AGAINST:
    Goals: 5 - Points 55 AVERAGE: Goals: 1 - Points 11


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    #61
    Always_Running
    Registered Users Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭Always_Running


    In fact,they entered the game against Tyrone with most onlookers expecting the Red Hand to advance to the semis (and the final), but shook it up tactically by bringing in Barry Moran as some sort of hybrid sweeper/third midfielder.
    At the time that said more about Mayos form than anything about Tyrone. Tyrone played their league football this year in division 2. In the Ulster championship they needed a replay to beat Cavan and narrowly won the Ulster against a weary Donegal team. Even so in the quarter final they probably would have won it if they kept 15 men on the field and weren't so wasteful in front of goal with just 12 scores in 33 attempts. Dublin in comparison last Sunday scored 7 times from their last 8 attempts v Kerry.

    One the other note Barry Moran played in that role under H&C last year.


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