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The jealousy thread

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    #152
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,818 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I was referring to room night tax levied directly on guests. They have other business taxation in the cities that charge that too


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    #153
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAR0O-ndvek


    10 minute trains at 2 am! 5 minute more frequent than the Dart at 2 pm!


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    #154
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Berlin central station being set up to receive a special ICE today, marking the full opening of VDE8 (the project to link Berlin and Munich by high speed rail).

    The final segment officially goes into service on the 12th with the new timetable and will cut the journey time on the 623km route to 4 hours.

    Given Munich airport is a 45 minute train ride from Munich central station and Berlin's future airport will be roughly 30 minutes out and the flight time is around an hour, the train will provide serious competition to that busy air route as you can get a solid 4 hours work in on the train.

    The project was begun in 1991.


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    #155
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    Ah I wouldn't say its as clear cut as apples and oranges. Money wise yes, but in contextual vision terms, no. Ireland really doesn't aspire to much when it comes to transport infrastructure.

    Exactly,
    Anyway you need only look at countries of similar size like portugal, czech republic , norway and denmark to see just how underdeveloped our transport infrastrucuture is
    Even regional cities in bigger countries like france have far superior transport than Dublin which is a capital and much larger


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    #156
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COLMODzYX7U

    Owe won't it be grand when we've NMN for 60 years and we can run it into the ground ;)


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    #157
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Was informed last night about all the metro built in Sofia since the late 90s.

    One of the poorest countries in Europe. Yet here, nothing.....:mad:

    Another poor city with a great metro is Naples. I was there two years ago they've made most of the stations into a public art gallery with some beautiful art installations at almost every stop it really has rejuvenated the city from a corrupt mafia run hellhole to a civilised European city. Obviously Dublin has not had this problem but still has problems.

    I feel a metro would make a Dublin a much better city than it is today, the only thing I would fear is we would do in typical half arsed Irish fashion due to idiots such as elected officials and civil servants scaling down the project with ridiculous suggestions such as 60m platforms all in the name of penny pinching due the short term mentality and lack of forward thinking by some.

    It will cost billions to build the tunnels for a metro it would only save millions by having shorter platforms but it may cost billions in the future to rectify the problem and cause lots of disruption.


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    #158
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,253 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    While I'm jealous of many infrastructure projects around the world, I'm also happy to see that we're not the only ones to screw up major projects. Lovely article on the problems facing the new Berlin International Airport here.

    Highlights include:
    Berlin Brandenburg Airport (BER) was set to open in 2012 until final safety checks revealed that the smoke extractor system was defective and, in case of fire, risked exploding. With no safety certificate the opening was cancelled at the last minute. Subsequent checks revealed much of the airport had not been built according to the blueprints.

    Some 90km of cabling was defective, often sunk in concrete instead of running through shafts. Electric doors had no electricity; no one knew how to turn off the lights; the floors in the car park, even without cars, began to sag because they didn’t contain enough steel girders. The escalator was too short into the underground train station, where – every night – a train passes through to circulate the air and prevent mould.


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    #159
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    CatInABox wrote: »
    While I'm jealous of many infrastructure projects around the world, I'm also happy to see that we're not the only ones to screw up major projects. Lovely article on the problems facing the new Berlin International Airport here.

    Highlights include:
    Berlin Brandenburg Airport (BER) was set to open in 2012 until final safety checks revealed that the smoke extractor system was defective and, in case of fire, risked exploding. With no safety certificate the opening was cancelled at the last minute. Subsequent checks revealed much of the airport had not been built according to the blueprints.

    Some 90km of cabling was defective, often sunk in concrete instead of running through shafts. Electric doors had no electricity; no one knew how to turn off the lights; the floors in the car park, even without cars, began to sag because they didn’t contain enough steel girders. The escalator was too short into the underground train station, where – every night – a train passes through to circulate the air and prevent mould.
    I'd say they would love if  a bomb was accidentally dropped on it, to save the embarrassment of having to admit it'll never work.


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    #160
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,854 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Spent the weekend in Quito.

    Ecuador is a fairly poor country even by South American standards.

    Construction on their metro is well underway.


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    #161
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,074 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Does anyone else find it mind-blowingly depressing that since Luas cross city finished in December 2017 that there isn't a single public transport project of any significance under construction anywhere in the country. And nothing in the immediate pipeline. Yes metro and BusConnects but they're having issues before they even get off the drawing board.


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    #162
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Yeah definitely depressing, even more so is that even if these plans go ahead the earliest we would see Metro is 2027. With objections, delays, etc 2030 is more realistic. Busconnects will take to 2027 too for all lane widening to be implemented but even that is facing resistance over the trees. We are literally a decade away from seeing any tangible improvements to PT in Dublin. In the meantime things just keep getting busier and busier.


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    #163
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Does anyone else find it mind-blowingly depressing that since Luas cross city finished in December 2017 that there isn't a single public transport project of any significance under construction anywhere in the country. And nothing in the immediate pipeline. Yes metro and BusConnects but they're having issues before they even get off the drawing board.

    That’s down to 2 main factors:
    1. An incredible lack of foresight by both the government and NTA/TII
    2. FGs inability to distinguish between current and capital expenditure

    Why in gods name they didn’t bother keeping the design of schemes ticking over so that when this boom came, there would be plenty of schemes to pick off the shelf. Perhaps that gives a true sense of the financial crisis we were in that we couldn’t even spend that small amount of money.

    The second point is even more bemusing. Given FGs role over the past 10 years in bringing Ireland from one end of the unemployment spectrum to the other, it is mind boggling to think that they potentially could be kicked out at the next election. While I don’t support them, I find it hard to believe that they are not sitting pretty with a massive advantage.
    The main reason for this is how out of touch with the people they are. How many opinion pools have shown that 70% of people prefer services than tax cuts (I Bellevue the other 30% simply don’t trust the government) yet Leo keeps going on about tax cuts which will have minimal impact and cost a fortune.

    The majority of the projects they have delivered have either been PPPs or the cheapest option (e.g Luas Cross City over Metro/DART). As bad as FF were, at least they had the balls to invest money. If only we had an in between party who spent like FF but minded the house like FG.


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    #164
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,854 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    In Dresden atm.

    So many trans lines, so much pedestrian friendly streets in the city.

    Good quality air. Very little noise pollution.

    Ironic that places that make you feel good, can make you feel so sick!! :D


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    #165
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    In Dresden atm.

    So many trans lines, so much pedestrian friendly streets in the city.

    Good quality air. Very little noise pollution.

    Ironic that places that make you feel good, can make you feel so sick!! :D

    Dresden was flattened in a fire storm bombing in Feb 1945 by USA/British attack which would be counted as a war crime if it happened now, or if the USA/Britain had been on the losing side. It killed 135,000 civilians.


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    #166
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,854 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Dresden was flattened in a fire storm bombing in Feb 1945 by USA/British attack which would be counted as a war crime if it happened now, or if the USA/Britain had been on the losing side. It killed 135,000 civilians.

    Yep, I’m fully aware of those crimes.


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    #167
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    Before I get shot down as being a loon, I know this will never happen in our lifetime, or ever, but that's why I'm adding it here. Progress seems to be being made on the Helsinki - Tallinn tunnel, with China's Touchstone Capital pledging €15billion to the scheme, which the Finnish Government estimated to cost in the region of €20billion during a feasibility study in 2018 (Source).

    Should HS2 ever make it past Birmingham, and I know that even Birmingham is looking precarious at the moment, I feel that this would make the benefits of a theoretical tunnel even greater. In theory, assuming the line between the Holyhead end of a tunnel and both northern branches of the proposed HS2 near Crewe, was upgraded to the standard of HS2 (at additional cost, yes), and an operating speed limit similar to that seen in the Channel Tunnel was in place, a train could depart Dublin, and be in Manchester or Liverpool in an hour, in Birmingham in less than an hour and a half, or London in two hours.

    In 2018, 4.9million people flew between Dublin and the London airports, 985,000 flew on the Manchester route, 927,000 flew on the Birmingham route, and 384,000 on the Liverpool route, which when combined totals approx. 7.2m people(source). Studies have led EU policy makers to believe that "high-speed rail in Europe is generally competitive over travel distances of between 200 and 500 km, with journeys lasting up to four hours" (Note: Dublin - London would be just under 500km)(Source). This theory is supported by the model split seen between the following cities; Paris-London: Rail 81% Air 17%, Madrid-Seville: Rail 83% Air 27%, Paris-Brussels: Rail 95% Air 5% (Source). If we took the lowest share of rail, seen between Paris and London, we could potentially expect 5.8million passengers per annum to defect to rail in the event that the tunnel was built. Taking the average capacity of an Aer Lingus A320 and Ryanair 737 (181.5 pax per plane), that would equate to 31,956 flights per annum, or 88 per day being taken out of the sky.

    Meanwhile, in 2016, passengers on the Dublin to Holyhead Ferry route stood at 1.8million. If we consider freight, a combined 5.9 million tonnes of goods travelled between Dublin, and Liverpool and Holyhead (Source). Assuming a truck can only carry 43tonnes, and that only fully loaded trucks make the journey at present (which is obviously not the case), this would equate to 137,000 truckloads per year, or 377 truckloads per day. If we look at the model split seen between Calais and Dover, just over 50% of passengers crossing the Straits of Dover chose the Channel Tunnel as opposed to the Ferries, so we could potentially expect an additional 900,000 to use an Irish Sea Tunnel Link. In regards to freight, 46% of tonnage went through the Channel Tunnel as opposed to utilising the ferry services, so we could expect 63,000 trucks to defect per year (173 per day), to an Irish Sea Tunnel.

    Of course, there are many other projects that are way up the priority list in terms of infrastructure here in Ireland. Creating an actual high quality public transport network in Dublin, improving rail times between Belfast, Dublin and Cork, and connecting Limerick and Cork by motorway. But I thought it would be interesting to understand the potential of such a scheme.

    With EU policy seemingly wanting to move people from airplanes to trains, how can we ignore the busiest air route in Europe. Yes the line would potentially only serve 6.7million people per annum, and Metro North Link is forecast to serve 50million, but that is 6.7million people that won't be flying, and who will be paying a good deal more than the price of a ticket between Charlemont and Swords.


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    #168
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,854 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    It’s such a pity that Holyhead (or somewhere close by on the northern coast) isn’t a vibrant city with 250-500,000 population.


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    #169
    hi5
    Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭hi5


    We should be looking more to Europe than Britain. Put the money into high speed super ferries instead.


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    #170
    disposableFish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭disposableFish


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Dresden was flattened in a fire storm bombing in Feb 1945 by USA/British attack which would be counted as a war crime if it happened now, or if the USA/Britain had been on the losing side. It killed 135,000 civilians.

    I don't understand why this is used in comparison to Ireland.

    If you look at our cities, the vast majority of development has happened post WW2, with another large chunk in the 1922-WW2 period.

    Dublin/Cork getting flattened wouldn't have made much difference - most of what you're talking about was farm land anyway (most of the rest was in pretty rag order and the state didn't hesitate to knock it when it felt like it).

    I'm afraid we're entirely to blame here.
    We had leaders that had a deeply flawed idea of every Irish family spread out on their own plot of land etc. etc. with little care for public space/services and we ran with it.


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    #171
    disposableFish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭disposableFish


    @ncounties

    There are plenty of good reasons for having a tunnel, it's just that the costs would be astronomical.

    A tunnel from Ireland to Wales would be the biggest and most difficult project of its kind ever attempted. No other project is as long and deep as that, and it may well be beyond the bounds of what's actually possible.

    Then, if the tunnel is actually built you have the issue of the infrastructure either side.

    Our own rail network is way, way below the standard of continental Europe and the UK isn't much better (especially around Hollyhead/Fishguard). We'd have to develop a proper rail-freight network here. All of this would require massive changes (sure, good in themselves but very costly).
    Oh, and we have a different gauge. We'd have to sort that.

    So, yeah. It's a nice idea but it would just cost so much that it can't happen. Even in environmental terms it's questionable how long it would take to pay off the environmental cost of all that concrete.

    Hopefully in 100 years the technology will have advanced enough to make it practical


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    #172
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    disposableFish wrote: »
    I don't understand why this is used in comparison to Ireland.

    If you look at our cities, the vast majority of development has happened post WW2, with another large chunk in the 1922-WW2 period.

    Dublin/Cork getting flattened wouldn't have made much difference - most of what you're talking about was farm land anyway (most of the rest was in pretty rag order and the state didn't hesitate to knock it when it felt like it).

    I'm afraid we're entirely to blame here.
    We had leaders that had a deeply flawed idea of every Irish family spread out on their own plot of land etc. etc. with little care for public space/services and we ran with it.

    We cannot build any infrastructure because of the existing fabric. Look at Busconnects - we cannot even take out trees to make room for cycles and buses.

    With a clean slate, a centralised plan can achieve a great city environment.

    All development in Ireland has been incremental - it's just add a bit as required, then add a bit more as required, and so on. Hotels like that are awful. It is like a 10 bed hotel adding 5 beds, them another 5 beds, instead of adding a purpose built 4 or 5 star new hotel of 50 beds, and a new restaurant and bar, etc., in one go.

    London, after the Great Fire of 1666 tried that, but the city could not wait, so it never happened.


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    #173
    disposableFish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭disposableFish


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    We cannot build any infrastructure because of the existing fabric. Look at Busconnects - we cannot even take out trees to make room for cycles and buses.

    With a clean slate, a centralised plan can achieve a great city environment.

    All development in Ireland has been incremental - it's just add a bit as required, then add a bit more as required, and so on. Hotels like that are awful. It is like a 10 bed hotel adding 5 beds, them another 5 beds, instead of adding a purpose built 4 or 5 star new hotel of 50 beds, and a new restaurant and bar, etc., in one go.

    London, after the Great Fire of 1666 tried that, but the city could not wait, so it never happened.
    So...you agree that it's got nothing to do with not being bombed (much) in WW2?

    Don't hope too much for a clean slate - what you're talking about comes at an enormous human cost. If it were to happen then we probably wouldn't be able to afford any grand developments anyway. Places get destroyed all the time, cases where they're build back better are pretty rare - mostly they're just left struggling and poor.

    Incremental development is no bad thing - the development of the Copenhagen metro has been incremental, as part of a broader development plan. The only important is to have a good idea of what direction you want to head in (so on the importance of having a plan we agree). This is where we've fallen down.

    Maybe there's an argument for addressing legal and regulatory issues in what might be called an "overhaul", but levelling the city on its own wouldn't do much good.


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    #174
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    disposableFish wrote: »
    So...you agree that it's got nothing to do with not being bombed (much) in WW2?

    Don't hope too much for a clean slate - what you're talking about comes at an enormous human cost. If it were to happen then we probably wouldn't be able to afford any grand developments anyway. Places get destroyed all the time, cases where they're build back better are pretty rare - mostly they're just left struggling and poor.

    Incremental development is no bad thing - the development of the Copenhagen metro has been incremental, as part of a broader development plan. The only important is to have a good idea of what direction you want to head in (so on the importance of having a plan we agree). This is where we've fallen down.

    Maybe there's an argument for addressing legal and regulatory issues in what might be called an "overhaul", but levelling the city on its own wouldn't do much good.

    Of course, I am not saying level the city, but a good plan that is more than just owner driven might be a good start. For example the Crosbie plan to fill in the area north of the Liffey and reclaim a parcel of land and build houses on it is the sort of plan that would result in a well structured city area.


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    #175
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Of course, I am not saying level the city, but a good plan that is more than just owner driven might be a good start. For example the Crosbie plan to fill in the area north of the Liffey and reclaim a parcel of land and build houses on it is the sort of plan that would result in a well structured city area.

    What area north of the Liffey?


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    #176
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,522 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    What area north of the Liffey?

    Dublin Bay.


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    #177
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    What area north of the Liffey?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/harry-crosbie-reclaim-land-from-irish-sea-to-tackle-housing-crisis-1.3989706

    Harry Crosbie: Reclaim land from Irish sea to tackle housing crisis
    Developer says reclaiming land near Clontarf would create homes for 65,000 people


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    #178
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,253 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    In other words, a plan that has zero chance of happening.


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    #179
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,319 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    ITV is to broadcast a new documentary series about the Newcastle Tyne & Wear Metro in the 1st quarter of 2020.
    Metro: A Real Life Story

    In this new series, we chart the lives of those who use and run the biggest Metro system in Britain outside London: Newcastle’s Tyne and Wear Metro.

    https://www.itvmedia.co.uk/download_file/958/702


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    #180
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,319 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    The Metro: A Rail life Story begins tonight at 7:30pm on ITV/UTV/STV.

    It has a total of 4 episodes. An episode will be shown every Tuesday night. Each episode lasts for 30 minutes.

    The 1st episode is about the staff trying to manage a fault & the crowds going to Sunderland for the recent Spice Girls World tour concert.
    Documentary following workers on the Tyne and Wear Metro - the UK's largest metro system outside of London. In the first edition, staff in Sunderland prepare for the arrival of 50,000 Spice Girls fans ahead of the pop group's concert at the Stadium of Light. The pressure rises across the day as head of operations Wayne spots a potential fault with an overhead line, and there's an anxious call to the control room - a set of fans have lost their tickets for the concert of a lifetime. Narrated by Zoe Hakin. S1 Ep1


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    #181
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,319 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    It was interesting to note that new trains for the Tyne & Wear Metro have currently been ordered. However; they won't replace the current fleet for another few years. Their trains in use at the moment have done really well to stay on the tracks for this long. They have been on their own rails in Newcastle for 40 years which is a great achievement. They were currently well able to withstand the large numbers of fans who went to the recent Spice Girls concert in Sunderland.


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