The jealousy thread

BonnieSituation

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It's meant to make you jealous! Talk about missing the point completely

Jealousy and depression go hand in hand sometimes.

murphaph

This is where I changed trains on the way to my office this morning. Inter-City and express regional, regional and city services cross at right angles to each other (there's an elevated section and an underground section). The Underground also serves the station in a limited manner until the U55 is replaced by integrating it into the extended U5 (under construction). Sorry.

MJohnston

Ah to live in a city that was decimated by bombs and then rebuilt by American money....

anothernight

Yes, because all cities with good infrastructure were bombed to the ground... and all cities that were bombed to the ground have great infrastructure. I mean, look at Coventry.

MJohnston

anothernight wrote: »

Yes, because all cities with good infrastructure were bombed to the ground... and all cities that were bombed to the ground have great infrastructure. I mean, look at Coventry.

Who said anything like that?

murphaph

MJohnston wrote: »

Ah to live in a city that was decimated by bombs and then rebuilt by American money....

Berlin central station was built in 2006. Oh and half the city was under the control of the Soviet Union and there was no Marshallski plan for them. The Russkies stripped the cupboard bare in the east and sent it home as reparations and who could really blame them. None of this excuses our failure in Ireland to build stuff. And this is the jealousy thread anyway.

MJohnston

murphaph wrote: »

Berlin central station was built in 2006. Oh and half the city was under the control of the Soviet Union and there was no Marshallski plan for them. The Russkies stripped the cupboard bare in the east and sent it home as reparations and who could really blame them. None of this excuses our failure in Ireland to build stuff. And this is the jealousy thread anyway.

I can't be arsed going into it on a Friday about 10 minutes before I go home, but Germany and Ireland have very divergent economic evolutions that make them really hard to compare. It wasn't an excuse, just me being facetious about that :pac:

But yes, this is the jealousy thread, so unrealistically grumble away

murphaph

Sure look, the countries of the world have vastly differing economies. It's simply a matter of priorities for any developed nation and public transport has zero priority in Ireland.

Hotblack Desiato

anothernight wrote: »

I mean, look at Coventry.

They do have an elevated ring road - a bit hairy to drive on with all the weaving because of the very closely spaced on/off ramps. I was over there nearly 20 years ago and did a couple of laps (on my motorbike!) just for the hell of it.

http://www.cbrd.co.uk/articles/coventry-ring-road/ "a tribute to the age of concrete" indeed.

Not exactly a good example of successful urban infrastructure provision.

anothernight

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

They do have an elevated ring road - a bit hairy to drive on with all the weaving because of the very closely spaced on/off ramps.

Understatement of the century. :P

For those not familiar with it:
As you drive into the ring road, cars are driving out of it. They didn't think to separate the entry and exit points, so it's all this simultaneous manoeuvre of cars driving sideways, some to the left and some to the right. It's not too bad... unless there's more than a couple of cars on the road. Then it becomes chaotic. Low visibility in several sections of it due to the walls everywhere. Cars regularly hit those walls. Oh, and sometimes each other as they enter/leave. Most driving instructors in that area actually give special lessons on how to drive on the ring road. You can even find youtube tutorials about it!

I had three months of having the ring road as part of my commute... never again.


Anyway, sorry for the off topic.

Hotblack Desiato

Just stay in the 'Hotel California' right lane. It's pleasant and safe, but you'll never leave

I rode around it in the relative calm of mid-morning, with no particular place to go would hate to have to use it in rush hour, that's for sure.

They're not messing when the signs say you must get into lane. If you're not in the left lane before the junction before the one you want to exit on, you've no chance.

It's not really that off-topic, if some of the wilder urban motorway ideas proposed for Dublin 40-odd years ago had taken shape...

We dodged a bullet there, but unfortunately the urban rail envisaged back then still mostly hasn't materialised either :mad:

Dardania

I almost think Ireland doesn't have the ambition for world class infrastructure.

murphaph

Dardania wrote: »

I almost think Ireland doesn't have the ambition for world class infrastructure.

There's sadly no almost about it.

Heroditas

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

A field and goalposts does not constitute a 'gold plated sports facility'.

Are the coaches trained and accredited? What are the changing rooms like? Hot showers? We couldn't manage hot showers for our ladies 6 Nations team a couple of years ago ffs.

Most IRFU clubs are in the ha'penny place when compared to many GAA clubs. The IRFU may take in a lot of money but most of that goes on running the professional game with only very small alumnus trickling down to the clubs and the women's game.

MJohnston

Dardania wrote: »

I almost think Ireland doesn't have the ambition for world class infrastructure.

Its a function of our political system I believe - staffed with a lot of politicians who can't recognise the benefits of anything beyond its direct impact, and if that direct impact doesn't look like it'll provide them with enough reelection cachet, they avoid it. Something like Metro North has a small enough direct impact, but the second order impact is huge[2]. They just won't look that far because (a) our media aren't smart enough to see these extra benefits, (b) some of the electorate are in dire financial straits and would feel aggrieved by perceived spending on a fancy shiny ribbon cutting ceremony that they can't see improving their lives (thanks to the inadequate media in part), (c) the parochial effect.

I'd have to say I think a lot of this is a holdover from the pre-internet era of politicians, and we might see a big change over the next few years in how our politics is structured (already did a bit last year).

[1] In terms of likely voters whose lives it'll improve.
[2] Vastly increasing the amount of desirable residential areas, therefore decreasing city rent prices, therefore reducing homelessness, all the while improving Dublin's chances of capitalizing on Brexit, attracting large investment, and bringing loads of extra money into the economy to benefit all.

McAlban

Don't normally get jealous about roads, but Just spent 2 weeks in Croatia / Bosnia, The E65 North / South Motorway is probably the Best Motorway I've ever driven on and it's built high in the mountains way from the scenic coastline and tourist spots, it has Hundreds of Bridges / Tunnels, if built in Ireland it would have cost billions! Even the trunk road connecting Zadar to the E65 is Irish HQDC standard. The Road from Ploce to Mostar in Bosnia was vastly better than any of our N Roads.

I even drove on Local Roads (the D116) which goes through rural villages / olive groves on an Island, and it was top quality most of the way.

Sam Russell

I was in Scotland last week and visited Edinburgh and Glasgow - both great cities.

While Edinburgh has a tram system, it was difficult to see any trams - they are far from frequent (and very ugly).

Glasgow has the clockwork orange (metro) that has just a circle route that does not serve anywhere that I wanted to go so I did not go on it.

What did interest me was their bin system. They had these skip/bins in the street that people just put their domestic rubbish into - communal bins. Much cheaper to operate that ours, and not something to have demonstrations about. It is a simple and sensible solution and gives rise to clean streets. Dublin please copy.

I also travelled quite a bit by train. A fifteen minute frequency between Glasgow and Edinburgh - 50 minute transit time and the line currently being electrified. Overall train system is brilliant with trains being on time and about 75% full. Irish Rail please copy.

spacetweek

Sam Russell wrote: »

What did interest me was their bin system. They had these skip/bins in the street that people just put their domestic rubbish into - communal bins. Much cheaper to operate that ours, and not something to have demonstrations about. It is a simple and sensible solution and gives rise to clean streets. Dublin please copy.

People would set fire to them.

Stephen15

spacetweek wrote: »

People would set fire to them.

In fairness now in Glasgow they have a similar breed called neds if that's what your thinking of. This is Glasgow we're talking about not some kind of far away more socially advanced place like Berlin or Amsterdam.

Bray Head

Sam Russell wrote: »

I also travelled quite a bit by train. A fifteen minute frequency between Glasgow and Edinburgh - 50 minute transit time and the line currently being electrified. Overall train system is brilliant with trains being on time and about 75% full. Irish Rail please copy.

Scotland has two reasonably sized cities which are quite close. This is ideal for a rail link.

Dublin and Cork/Belfast are roughly equivalent but much further apart.

Apart from the links to England and between Glasgow and Edinburgh trains in Scotland are pretty slow.

Sam Russell

Bray Head wrote: »

Apart from the links to England and between Glasgow and Edinburgh trains in Scotland are pretty slow.

I did notice that as well, but they have a better penetration into the more remote districts. But also I thought the usage was pretty high. I estimated that the trains I travelled on were about 75% full - all off-peak.

I think that currently off-peak usage of Dart trains to be about 10%. If they ran 4 coach trains then this figure would double.

cgcsb

Edinburgh and Glasgow have virtually overlapping suburbs. They're not that far apart so I guess their economies are interconnected a bit more than say Dublin-Cork hence the high frequency. Still it would be nice to see Dublin Cork up to half hour frequency.

LeinsterDub

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/08/28/warmth-from-tube-trains-could-heat-uk-homes-as-part-of-governmen/

One scheme being developed in Islington, north London, will use heat from the Northern Line of the London Underground network. In Stoke-on-Trent, plans are under way to tap renewable geothermal heat from deep underground. The council is also exploring recycling heat from pottery kilns from the ceramics industry.

Just wow

Stephen15

What about the idea of electriflying the Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Belfast and race pendolinos down those lines running between Cork and Belfast via Dublin.

Sam Russell

Stephen15 wrote: »

What about the idea of electriflying the Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Belfast and race pendolinos down those lines running between Cork and Belfast via Dublin.

What about the idea of electrifying the Connolly Maynooth line? Lets not lose the run of ourselves - we can get jealous about small things too.

murphaph

I'll just leave this here...
http://www.vde8.de/---_site.project..ls_dir._likecms.html

Stephen15

Separate intercity and suburban lines what 21st century 1st world intercity trains have to share trackage with suburban trains.

Bray Head

murphaph wrote: »

I'll just leave this here...
http://www.vde8.de/---_site.project..ls_dir._likecms.html

Germany's public spend on infrastructure is actually as low as Ireland's. As in extremely low.

random_guy

Bray Head wrote: »

Germany's public spend on infrastructure is actually as low as Ireland's. As in extremely low.

Yes but they're livingto regret that not. A lot it is struggling.

murphaph

Bray Head wrote: »

Germany's public spend on infrastructure is actually as low as Ireland's. As in extremely low.

Perhaps because they used to spend so much on it and built their underground systems and motorways and whatnot in previous decades. We are playing catch-up with Germany etc. so should be spending double or triple what they spend per capita. Next year you'll be able to do Berlin - Munich in 4 hours, central station to central station. That will be competitive with flying as Munich airport is a 1 hour train trip to Munich central station after exiting your plane at the minute and when Berlin's airport finally moves it'll be a good 40 minutes there. The flight is around an hour long but factor in check in time and the train will be more attractive as you can get a solid 4 hours work done on your laptop.

Hotblack Desiato

The costs of reunification with East Germany must be a factor in that reduced infrastructure spend too, approx 2 trillion euro :eek:

NiallBoo

Is it just me or do these threads always end up being a debate about how "It's a pity we weren't bombed to shìte"?

MJohnston

fwiw my wife is German, and she says that the infrastructure spending (what she calls "everyone must get a newly paved road to their house") in Germany came alongside a significant downturn in their quality of education. Whether the two are connected or not, I don't know, but it is notable that as infra investment has decreased, the education system has largely turned itself around.

LeinsterDub

NiallBoo wrote: »

Is it just me or do these threads always end up being a debate about how "It's a pity we weren't bombed to shìte"?

Now that's the level of jealousy we want to see here

Stephen15

I was on the metro in naples there a while ago and what beautiful piece of modern architecture it feels more like an art gallery than a public transport system if mn was to be built it would have to look like that oh wait we'd probably have to stick a load of advertising hoarding

Bray Head

Stephen15 wrote: »

I was on the metro in naples there a while ago and what beautiful piece of modern architecture it feels more like an art gallery than a public transport system if mn was to be built it would have to look like that oh wait we'd probably have to stick a load of advertising hoarding

Naples probably has GDP per capita levels between a half and a third of that of Dublin.

It's about the same size and population density.

It has had a metro since 1991.

NiallBoo

Bray Head wrote: »

Naples probably has GDP per capita levels between a half and a third of that of Dublin.

*officially

Orchard Rebel

Bray Head wrote: »

Naples probably has GDP per capita levels between a half and a third of that of Dublin.

It's about the same size and population density.

It has had a metro since 1991.

It's also got a DART-style network, the Circumvesuviana. I remember travelling on it with the missus on our honeymoon and a bloke got on, somewhere near Ercolano IIRC, and started busking with an accordion. He got off after a couple of stops. You don't see that between Dalkey and Killiney.....

LeinsterDub

Ireland's too small for a metro. We are too broke for a metro

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/News/1.2767323

To be delivered before the proposed MN date too

BonnieSituation

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Ireland's too small for a metro. We are too broke for a metro

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/News/1.2767323

To be delivered before the proposed MN date too

FLANDERS NEWS wrote:

The current premetro line from the North Station to the Albert stop in Vorst will be transformed into a fully-fledged metro line by 2022.

Upgrading a line that they already have? Wow. Inspired. It's a crazy idea isn't it?

FLANDERS NEWS wrote:

Expanding the metro line from the North Station to Bordet will cost 857 million euros

That's about €3.25bn here in case anyone was wondering.


---

Bordet to Brux Nord is about the same as Artane to Connolly FYI

MJohnston

For those who like the idea of a directly elected Mayor, may want to read this - http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/09/16/waiting-for-a-directly-elected-mayor/

Stephen15

cgcsb wrote: »

Edinburgh and Glasgow have virtually overlapping suburbs. They're not that far apart so I guess their economies are interconnected a bit more than say Dublin-Cork hence the high frequency. Still it would be nice to see Dublin Cork up to half hour frequency.

I know its on a different scale but how about this idea allowing a private operator to run trains every hour on the cork line this is the case in italy which has ntv and state trains on the high speed lines. It started about four or five years as the new high spend obivously ordinary trains couldn't run on the high speed lines and the state thought they weren't going to be used at least every 15 minutes it would have been a waste of money so they allowed the first ever private company run high speed rail in europe very surprising in an extremely bureacratic country but an excellent idea creates much needed competion without having private monopolies ala uk privatisation.

BonnieSituation

Why is privatization alwasy seen a the solution in this country?

For all its ills over the years IE can't run trains on a non-existent tunnel or on unopened lines. And they are hamstrung by government policy. They have their ills but as has been proven b y the DB strike the State doesn't give a shoite about PT and that's it.

thereitisgone

Some stations opening already
http://www.lansimetro.fi/en/home.html

BonnieSituation

Will be heading over to Hamburg next Easter and was just looking at Google maps for a few things and something occurred to me when I zoomed a wee bit NW of the city toward Denmark

"Janey, they should build a tunnel between Putgarden (DE) and Rødby (DK). That would be a great link between Copenhagen and Hamburg"

Well, it looks like they are.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Belt_Fixed_Link


This country woudelt your face with inaction over the smallest things. Meanwhile Denmark are in the process of building a SECOND road and rail tunnel link to serve their Capital.

L1011

I can see that project being delayed a few more times. The Copenhagen metro proposal to extend to Malmo will be very interesting to follow also

BonnieSituation

L1011 wrote: »

I can see that project being delayed a few more times. The Copenhagen metro proposal to extend to Malmo will be very interesting to follow also

All delays seem to be on the German side. But in fairness it's a massive plan of ambition we could only dream of here.

Muahahaha

Just back from Barcelona and the metro there is pure bliss. Only downside was long walks between some connetions but with trains every four minutes you are on the move very quickly

Chivito550

Just to make us all even more jealous:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/World_Metro_systems.svg

corm500

Chivito550 wrote: »

Just to make us all even more jealous:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/World_Metro_systems.svg

That's an embarrassment. Pretty much us,Sub-Saharan Africa and Australia.