BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

cgcsb · 18-07-2019 1:06pm

Over all there is too much An-Larism, 3 spines and 2 high frequency routes on O'Connell Street and 4 spines and 2 routes on the quays in the city centre, and then large amounts of the city centre with no service. Capel st, Grattan bridge remain bus-free.

jd · 18-07-2019 1:15pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Over all there is too much An-Larism, 3 spines and 2 high frequency routes on O'Connell Street and 4 spines and 2 routes on the quays in the city centre, and then large amounts of the city centre with no service. Capel st, Grattan bridge remain bus-free.

Did Jarret Walker do this iteration of the redesign?

cgcsb · 18-07-2019 1:16pm

jd wrote: »

Did Jarret Walker do this iteration of the redesign?

yes

Qrt · 18-07-2019 1:28pm

The City Centre will probably always be the biggest destination for people so I think a lot of it is valid. Personally, I think it’ll lead to an added urge to restrict private traffic within the canals, and especially on the quays.

cgcsb · 18-07-2019 1:33pm

Qrt wrote: »

The City Centre will probably always be the biggest destination for people so I think a lot of it is valid. Personally, I think it’ll lead to an added urge to restrict private traffic within the canals, and especially on the quays.

I just think there's a lot more to the City Centre than College Green and O'Connell Street and lots of areas in the city centre with no bus service at all.

Sam Russell · 18-07-2019 1:41pm

Why do they not implement the 90 min Leap ticket now, as that will encourage passengers to change buses more, and give better value to Leap card users.

The other aspect that would help Busconnects - even before it starts - is if DCC starts removing on street parking by reducing it gradually piece by piece. There are plenty of places where there are a few extra places where there should not be, say too close to a junction, or on both sides of a street where one side only may be more appropriate.

Every move that encourages modal shift to PT is important - even if those moves may appear small.

D14Rugby · 18-07-2019 1:44pm

If they had any sense whatsoever they would do that and introduce the 90 minute "free" travel system now and get people used to the idea of switching bus but as with the whole bus connects plan, right idea, absolutely god awful execution.

elmoslats · 18-07-2019 1:50pm

When the first network proposals were published, Dublin city council had an application being reviewed by An Bord Pleanala to pedestrianise college green. That is why the NTA designed the network without east/west through college green.

Currently there is no application pending, although Dublin City Council are still planning to pedestrianise college green.

It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that the next proposals will use college green east/west. There are no current official plans to change the setup of college green. I don't think this says anything about the future of college green (the plaza was never an NTA project). If the plaza was to go ahead, the NTA would obviously re route the buses.

cgcsb · 18-07-2019 1:52pm

elmoslats wrote: »

If the plaza was to go ahead, the NTA would obviously re route the buses.

Can you imagine the calls Joe would get?

Evil_g · 18-07-2019 2:29pm

cgcsb wrote: »

F Spine South
The Spine is longer before with all F buses staying the same as far as Kimmage Rd/Terenure Rd E
F1: Fortified Rd, Cypress Grove, Firhouse Road, Ballycullen Road, Old Bawn, Firhouse, Whitestown Way, Tallaght
F2: Whitehall Rd, Glendown Ave, Wellington Lane
F3: Kimage, Cromwellsfort, St peter's Rd, St James Rd

Any word on whether this is correct? The F3 should turn off at Kimmage Rd. / Sundrive Rd.

Terenure Rd. E is in Rathgar. Terenure Rd. W is the KCR.

Qrt · 18-07-2019 2:42pm

Evil_g wrote: »

Any word on whether this is correct? The F3 should turn off at Kimmage Rd. / Sundrive Rd.

Terenure Rd. E is in Rathgar. Terenure Rd. W is the KCR.

I’m guessing it’s Terenure Road West, so assuming it’s staying on the spine until the KCR. I think there’s another route serving Sundrive Road?

Side question; any idea it the 240 is still planned? Or the 16’s Tallaght/Old Court/Ballycullen Connection?

cgcsb · 18-07-2019 4:00pm

Evil_g wrote: »

Any word on whether this is correct? The F3 should turn off at Kimmage Rd. / Sundrive Rd.

Terenure Rd. E is in Rathgar. Terenure Rd. W is the KCR.

Yes, it's W, not E.

Evil_g · 18-07-2019 4:01pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Yes, it's W, not E.

So you're saying the F3 will no longer go down Sundrive Rd and Stannaway Rd?

That seems very strange.

cgcsb · 18-07-2019 4:08pm

Qrt wrote: »

I’m guessing it’s Terenure Road West, so assuming it’s staying on the spine until the KCR. I think there’s another route serving Sundrive Road?

Side question; any idea it the 240 is still planned? Or the 16’s Tallaght/Old Court/Ballycullen Connection?

15 will serve sundrive.

240 is gone. Lots of the local buses are gone with more direct radials instead

Evil_g · 18-07-2019 4:13pm

cgcsb wrote: »

15 will serve sundrive.

240 is gone. Lots of the local buses are gone with more direct radials instead

In the original plans the F3 replaced the current 83, turning onto Sundrive, then running down Stannaway to Cromwellsfort.

I'd be very surprised if the F3 now runs to KCR then turns towards Cromwellsfort.

It would take the same amount of time, and leave Stannaway unserved.

[Edit] Here's the relevant location from the original plans. I don't see how making the F3 follow the F1 and F2 and then the S4 would improve things for anyone.

Qrt · 18-07-2019 4:31pm

cgcsb wrote: »

15 will serve sundrive.

240 is gone. Lots of the local buses are gone with more direct radials instead

What local buses remain?

cgcsb · 18-07-2019 4:58pm

Qrt wrote: »

What local buses remain?

Lots of them, will update with the main post

cgcsb · 18-07-2019 4:59pm

Evil_g wrote: »

In the original plans the F3 replaced the current 83, turning onto Sundrive, then running down Stannaway to Cromwellsfort.

I'd be very surprised if the F3 now runs to KCR then turns towards Cromwellsfort.

It would take the same amount of time, and leave Stannaway unserved.

[Edit] Here's the relevant location from the original plans. I don't see how making the F3 follow the F1 and F2 and then the S4 would improve things for anyone.

The chord between the F spine and the S4 would be served by the 15 at lower frequency.

cgcsb · 18-07-2019 5:14pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Spines:
A northside;
A4 will start in swords in the same place as now but will then take a more direct route via what was to be the 262 route. It bypasses the airport and joins the spine at Whitehall. The A1 finishes at Beaumont hospital via Lorcan ave instead of continuing to Clongriffin. The A2 is the same. The A3 continues past DCU and turns onto shanlissroad and terminates at shanowen road

A southside;
The same more less except A2 and A3 are switched and A4 continues all the way to Nutgrove SC

All A buses will take O'Connell st, College Green and George's st in the city centre

B:
B1 and B2 are the same. The new B3 starts at Dun Laoghaire stn and continues via rock road and joins the B spine at St Vincints. On the north side It leaves Blanch SC and serves Tyrellstown via castlecurragh heath and church rd. The B4 starts in Sallynoggin and joins the B3 at Monkstown rd. It's unclear where the B4 ends, perhaps a drafting error.

C spine:
C4 will take a straighter route past Weston aerodrome and both C1 and C2 will continue to terminate at st John's near Sydney parade. All of the c branches appear to be now at a lower mid day frequency

D Spine South:

So the D3 went into Clondalkin via Watery rd and turned North onto 9th lock road and then Bawnogue. The new D3 will enter Clondalkin by Watery Road and continue south, then turn north onto Fonthill road and onto Bawnogue and terminate at St Cuthbert's. The D1 will start at Grifeen Avenue, take in the Grange Castle road and serve Grangecastle business park, then the D1 will take New Nangor Road and bypass clondalkin village and join up with D3 at Watery Rd/New Nangor and continue towards the city as the current D3 does. D2 is the same except it continues on Blessington Rd and serves Jobstown and Citywest Rd, terminating at Kingswood avenue. D4 will follow the D2 route to Tallaght and continue along Blessington road and loop around Killinarden heights and terminate at Kiltipper way. D5 follows D4 and D2 past the M50 then turns o serve Castletymon, Avonmore, Main st and terminates in Tallaght

D Spine North:

D3 is the same, D2 terminates on Clare Hall road shortly after turning off the Malahide Rd, D1 continues to the station via main street

D4 splits off at Ardlea Rd and serves Skelly's lane, Beaumont hospital and terminates at Coolock Lane

D5 splits of and serves McAuley Rd, HArmonstown Rd, Edenmore, Milbrook Rd and finishes at Blunden Drive in the same was as the previously planned 279. In this case they've basically added radial routes where a local feeder was panned.

E spine is the same except E1 starts at IKEA

F Spine North
All F buses start at Charlestown
The new F1 is the same as the F3 in the previous plan.
The New F3 will go through the main street, across mellows road, cardiffsbridge road, st helana's rd and back to the main spine.
The New F2 goes through Barry Rd, Mellows rd and then straight down Finglas road to the main F spine

F Spine South
The Spine is longer before with all F buses staying the same as far as Kimmage Rd/Terenure Rd W
F1: Fortified Rd, Cypress Grove, Firhouse Road, Ballycullen Road, Old Bawn, Firhouse, Whitestown Way, Tallaght
F2: Whitehall Rd, Glendown Ave, Wellington Lane
F3: Kimage, Cromwellsfort, St peter's Rd, St James Rd

G spine is the same but G1 continues, crosses the M50 and then turns south ant terminates at the red cow. In the City it turns onto wine tavern st and up the quays terminating at Spencer dock

H Spine:
Starts with a Talbot st/Abbey st loop, Amien St, Fairview, Howth Rd

H1: All Saints Rd, Raheny Station, Raheny Rd, Grange Rd down to the coast and then red arches rd to finish at Clongriffin station
H2 and H3 continue on Howth Road with H3 serving Howth Summit. H2 diverts by the coast road and up to Malahide.

Orbitals:
O and W4 remain the same as do all orbitals more/less except for the N6 which is completely gone in the new plan and the S7 which also gone, and a more frequent S6 is in place.

Other radials:

10 and 12 are mostly the same except in the Centre they go via Westland Row, Pears/Sandwith st, Gardener St and terminate at Parnell Square. There is also a new route, 11, which is the same as the 12 except it continues to Enniskerry. The 10 is also extended from Sandyford luas across Blackthorn rd, over the M50, Sandyford village, Blackglen rd and finishes at Ticknock Park. Route 232 is gone.

16 is the same except it starts at Parnell Square and takes O'Connell st, College Green and back to the same route. The 16 will be higher frequency, every 10 mins mid day.

14 Liffey Valley to Ballinteer is the same except from Churchtown rd upper it goes: Beaumont Ave, Barton rd, Nutgrove way, Brehon field Rd. The 14 is also up to 10 minutes freq at mid day.

15: will start at Mountjoy Sq, Gardiner St, Westland Row, Stephen's Green, Earlsfort terrace, Richmond, Rathmines, Kennilworth, Sundrive, Stannaway, St Agnes Park, Whitehall Rd west, Limekiln Rd, 20-25 mins

20 will go through College Green, O'Connell Bridge, The Quays and a loop around east wall road, east road and new wapping st. 20 will be joined by the new 22 from here out as far as the SSR. The 20 continues as present but diverts by St Agnes rd, cromwellsfort, Ballymount, over the M50, Kingswood luas, Sylvan Dr, Cookstown rd and finish in tallaght. The longline is gone and it's now all the same frequency. 22 splits form the 20 at SSR then goes: Herberton rd, keeper rd, Galtymore Rd, finishing at the Cooley Rd triangle

New 23 is the same as the previous 22 except it operates via mourne road, SSR, Thomas St, College Green, O'Connell St, Parnell St and back to same route

*Annoyingly this leaves the Bolton st/King st area busless.

Instead of 7b and 7a the new routes will be 7 and 8, they'll start at Merrion Square and take: Pearse/Sandwith, College Green, Christchurch, Church St and on the same route as the previos 7b/a. The 7 will take the former a branch and terminate at Charlestown. The 8 will serve Charlestown and then serve St MArgaret's road, airport road and terminate at the airport. This gives the Finglas area a more direct airport link, which is welcome.

The 37/35 will be replaced by the 34/35, both at higher frequency. At the Blanch end the 34 will be the same as the previous 37, the 35 will turn right off main street ant serve Waterville, corduff and Blackcourt before terminating at the shopping centre. On the southern end, both routes go past Parnell square and serve: O'Connell, Kildare st, Stephen's Green, Leeson St, Burlington Rd.

Route 36 will be the same except it bypasses Broombridge station and uses Ratoath road. In the city centre it will use O'Connell, Pearse, Merrion Sq, Mount St, Northumberland rd and finish in Ballsbridge.

Route 60 is gone

Route 64 remains the same.

63 is replaced by the 93 at the same frequency. The route remains the same except it continues to serve Rathcool and the higher frequency 242 is scrapped, giving Rathcoole lower frequency but a direct bus to the centre. Closer to town it takes South Circular road, Conningham road and the quays and finishes in the port

Completely New Radials:

82, Glen Ellen Road, Swords Main street and then same as the A4 until it turns onto Gardiner St, Pearse/Sandwith, Westland Row and finish at Merrion Sq

97, new low frequency granny route to compliment the 34/35/36, it'll start in Parnell Sq and follow the 34/35 and turn off new cabra road, do a loop around Carnlough Rd, nephin rd, navan rd and finish in Ashington park

94, New Lw frequency granny route to compliment the E spine. Starting at Ikea, it takes Ballbutcher lane south to the Ballymun rd then down the ballymun rd, quick detour onto Collins ave, dellville rd, st canices rd and back onto the Ballymun rd, Home farm rd, Drumcondra, and a finish in Parnell sq,

96, brace yourselves for this one: Beaumont hosp, Kilbarron ln, Kilmore rd, Skellys lane, Beaumont rd, Collins ave, Killester, Blackheath park, castle ave, fairview, amien st, Abbey/Talbot st finish.

95, exactly the same as the G spine until it gets to Ballyfermot, then it takes Decies Rd, Kylemore rd, goes north of Ballyfermot rd briefly and then serves Clifton rd and Cherry orchard, not sure why this isn't just given a G number for simplicity.

98 Starts at Mountjoy Square; Gardiner st, Pearse/Sandwith, Merrion SQ, Mount St, Northumberland, Rock Rd, Glenegeary Rd, Sallynoggin Rd, Rochestown ave, Churchview Rd, Loughlinstown dr,

213 is basically replacing the current 47 but terminating in Ringsend.

I'll update further later

That's all the radials and orbitals done.

Evil_g · 18-07-2019 6:20pm

cgcsb wrote: »

The chord between the F spine and the S4 would be served by the 15 at lower frequency.

Thanks.

So it looks like the 10-15 min F3 service from Stannaway directly to town and all orbitals has been scrapped...and the current 83 is being replaced by the 15 which still goes half way around the world to get into town, but just runs less frequently.

Wonderful.

I quite liked the original plan, but after a period of public consultation they've been prevailed upon to make the current service worse.

Hopefully this is just a plan to get the infrastructure in place, then kill the granny busses one at a time.

L1011 · 18-07-2019 6:21pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

If they had any sense whatsoever they would do that and introduce the 90 minute "free" travel system now and get people used to the idea of switching bus but as with the whole bus connects plan, right idea, absolutely god awful execution.

Still an outside chance the December fare determination will provide this. Looking less likely with no new ticket machines

Qrt · 18-07-2019 6:36pm

Evil_g wrote: »

Thanks.

So it looks like the 10-15 min F3 service from Stannaway directly to town and all orbitals has been scrapped...and the current 83 is being replaced by the 15 which still goes half way around the world to get into town, but just runs less frequently.

Wonderful.

I quite liked the original plan, but after a period of public consultation they've been prevailed upon to make the current service worse.

Hopefully this is just a plan to get the infrastructure in place, then kill the granny busses one at a time.

I don’t know where you’re getting the impression all the orbitals have been scrapped. It says in the summary post that the only one being scrapped is the N6.

devnull · 18-07-2019 6:41pm

L1011 wrote: »

Still an outside chance the December fare determination will provide this. Looking less likely with no new ticket machines

Plus there still has to be agreements worked out with the operators as to who gets what revenue in these circumstances as Dublin Bus for instance are dependent on farebox revenue from their services.

Spanish Eyes · 18-07-2019 6:54pm

Thanks for all the updates.

The reality is that those affected may not realise the changes involved, even if they are for their benefit locally.

But anyway most people drive and don't give a fig really.

Evil_g · 18-07-2019 7:00pm

Qrt wrote: »

I don’t know where you’re getting the impression all the orbitals have been scrapped. It says in the summary post that the only one being scrapped is the N6.

That wasn't what I was trying to say.

What I mean is that they've scrapped the element of the F3 which would have brought me straight to town, and linked me up with all the orbitals.

The 15 will bring me on a magical mystery tour.

Evil_g · 18-07-2019 7:16pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Thanks for all the updates.

The reality is that those affected may not realise the changes involved, even if they are for their benefit locally.

But anyway most people drive and don't give a fig really.

From the NTA's perspective, these granny busses whilst expensive (and plain stupid in most cases) significantly reduce the amount of valid complaints that can be raised.

Independents 4 no change whatsoever (and elements of most other parties in fairness), can no longer court favour with Charles O'Carroll Kelly who stands to lose parking for his third car, by claiming to be standing up for wheelchair users who can't change busses.

There will be three categories of people left opposing this now:

(a) Traders who may be temporarily disrupted, but who arguably stand to gain hugely when the work is complete;

(b) Homeowners who believe they should simultaneously have all of the advantages of living walking distance from the centre of a capital city, all of the advantages of living in a rural village, and that 25 grand per square metre is not adequate compensation for the loss of a car parking space; and

(c) People who mistakenly believe that every tree within 20 metres of every bus route is going to be removed.

And if politicians want to appeal to these constituencies they'll have to do so openly.

The debate should be a lot clearer now (you'd hope).

Dyr · 18-07-2019 7:19pm

Whats with the granny bus term?

Qrt · 18-07-2019 7:25pm

Evil_g wrote: »

That wasn't what I was trying to say.

What I mean is that they've scrapped the element of the F3 which would have brought me straight to town, and linked me up with all the orbitals.

The 15 will bring me on a magical mystery tour.

Ah right, I get you know. All I can say is that there's still a round of public consultation due (god help us) for these plans (which will probably change before they're published [why wouldn't they just publish them now if complete?]) so it's not the end of the road. Alternatively, we can just take solace in our ability to walk to the nearest spine (and if you can't, no malice intended, just saying figuratively).

Personally, my area still seems to be gaining an awful lot, so I'm not too fussed. I'm blessed with the Luas, sadly not all of us are afforded the same.

Evil_g · 18-07-2019 7:27pm

Bambi wrote: »

Whats with the granny bus term?

There's a perception that many of the objections to replacing lightly used services that operate illogical routes, with faster services that offer more destinations, but require a change of buses, were raised by people who are set in their ways, afraid of change, and misinformed.

It's ageist, and perhaps sexist, but this persona conjures up an image of a granny to some people.

So to satisfy these people, it appears that the NTA have decided to continue operating lightly used services that run on illogical routes, even if this results in a poorer service than today. Granny busses.

Qrt · 18-07-2019 7:29pm

Bambi wrote: »

Whats with the granny bus term?

Most of the areas which were planned to only be served by local buses tended to be the product of 50s/60s/70s sprawl, so naturally the population is older on average.

The elderly were also used by some as a weapon against the plan, even though some experienced net gains (my own grandmother would have had a bus straight to her local post office for example).

Tarabuses · 18-07-2019 8:20pm

Bambi wrote: »

Whats with the granny bus term?

Evil_g wrote: »

There's a perception that many of the objections to replacing lightly used services that operate illogical routes, with faster services that offer more destinations, but require a change of buses, were raised by people who are set in their ways, afraid of change, and misinformed.

It's ageist, and perhaps sexist, but this persona conjures up an image of a granny to some people.

So to satisfy these people, it appears that the NTA have decided to continue operating lightly used services that run on illogical routes, even if this results in a poorer service than today. Granny busses.

A disparaging term nonetheless and one which, hopefully, can be dropped from this conversation.

Stephen15 · 18-07-2019 8:40pm

devnull wrote: »

Plus there still has to be agreements worked out with the operators as to who gets what revenue in these circumstances as Dublin Bus for instance are dependent on farebox revenue from their services.

I could see a situation where the 90 minute fare is rolled out first on buses and then to IE and Luas perhaps even a flat 90 minute fare on bus and Luas then extended to IE.

I would also imagine that the 2.25 and 2.50 will be merged into one flat by the end of the year which will a benefit in itself meaning most Leap users will be using the right hand validator to tag on reducing dwell times.

devnull · 18-07-2019 10:42pm

Anne Graham was taking calls on Newstalk, only 15 mins and not all related to BusConnects, but parts are:
https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-newstalk-breakfast/phoneinnt-anne-graham-nta-ceo

KD345 · 18-07-2019 11:05pm

Thanks cgcsb for posting the update, there’s a lot of info there.

I’m impressed with these changes and think they address many of the concerns people had. They deal with the pockets of Dublin which were losing a service. The rumoured increase to express routes will be welcomed too.

It’ll be interesting to see what the frequencies are. This will be the big test. Ultimately we’re asking people to change their travel habits, the routes and pattern people take will be the big test of capacity.

I don’t agree with the term ‘granny routes’. We shouldn’t label any type of bus passenger in a negative way. The suggestion that existing routes like the 27a, 79 and 122 only carry OAPs is wrong.

D14Rugby · 18-07-2019 11:06pm

L1011 wrote: »

Still an outside chance the December fare determination will provide this. Looking less likely with no new ticket machines

Don't think new machines should be needed? Surely its a software thing as opposed to hardware.

devnull · 18-07-2019 11:12pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

Don't think new machines should be needed? Surely its a software thing as opposed to hardware.

The model of ticket machine DB are using is approx 20 years old and can barely cope with functionality it has now.

Last Stop · 18-07-2019 11:19pm

Evil_g wrote: »

From the NTA's perspective, these granny busses whilst expensive (and plain stupid in most cases) significantly reduce the amount of valid complaints that can be raised.

Independents 4 no change whatsoever (and elements of most other parties in fairness), can no longer court favour with Charles O'Carroll Kelly who stands to lose parking for his third car, by claiming to be standing up for wheelchair users who can't change busses.

There will be three categories of people left opposing this now:

(a) Traders who may be temporarily disrupted, but who arguably stand to gain hugely when the work is complete;

(b) Homeowners who believe they should simultaneously have all of the advantages of living walking distance from the centre of a capital city, all of the advantages of living in a rural village, and that 25 grand per square metre is not adequate compensation for the loss of a car parking space; and

(c) People who mistakenly believe that every tree within 20 metres of every bus route is going to be removed.

And if politicians want to appeal to these constituencies they'll have to do so openly.

The debate should be a lot clearer now (you'd hope).

The routes was never the show stopper. The CBCs are what kills it and will continue to. There is no way they will get planning on their current designs.

FWIW, the routes only work with the CBCs. Without them, the network redesign can’t deliver on its proposals

BonnieSituation · 19-07-2019 12:28am

Tarabuses wrote: »

A disparaging term nonetheless and one which, hopefully, can be dropped from this conversation.

It's rightly disparaging. I have no time for the few, regardless of age, screwing the many. Which this cohort do all the time. Meanwhile those of us who use PT at rush hour have to deal with College Street and Green.

D14Rugby · 19-07-2019 1:00am

devnull wrote: »

The model of ticket machine DB are using is approx 20 years old and can barely cope with functionality it has now.

Yeah but while I don't know exactly what hardware or systems are in place surely the scanner on the right just reads the card, matches and tells the system its been scanned and the system does the rest? All you'd need to do it have it timestamp each scan which I think it already does and check if that time is within 90 minutes. I'm fairly confident the current hardware should be capable of it.

Their scanners for leap cards definitely aren't 20 years old anyway so just make it a leap card exclusive of even just have the driver read the physical tickets.

TheChrisD · 19-07-2019 4:49am

cgcsb wrote: »

[the large post with all the details]

For anyone who can't quite visualise the changes listed in the big post... here's a custom map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1ilVsfzuzRQ7flK6arBnXwmllnuK1uqBa

Think I have everything reported in there. Only missing the locals because the fate of most of them has not yet been reported bar my own one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

r93kaey5p2izun · 19-07-2019 5:28am

Is there a proposed new route or changed route to serve the Celbridge Road (R404) in Leixlip now the C4 won't be going that way? Especially with planning granted for new housing at the Wonderful Barn. The current 66B is not great but it's certainly better than nothing.

AlekSmart · 19-07-2019 6:29am

D14Rugby wrote: »

Yeah but while I don't know exactly what hardware or systems are in place surely the scanner on the right just reads the card, matches and tells the system its been scanned and the system does the rest? All you'd need to do it have it timestamp each scan which I think it already does and check if that time is within 90 minutes. I'm fairly confident the current hardware should be capable of it.

Their scanners for leap cards definitely aren't 20 years old anyway so just make it a leap card exclusive of even just have the driver read the physical tickets.

The current Wayfarer is easily capable of dealing with the 90 minute element,in fact it already does in respect of the 90 minute €1 discount applied to current transfer journeys (across ALL TfI modes :eek: )

The main issue with the current system is the default to cash fares and constant requirement to switch between them,even though Cashless accounts for c.85% of Transactions.

If the NTA holds its nerve,the December review should go a long way towards allowing the current TIM to function at something approaching 20th Century levels.

L1011 · 19-07-2019 6:30am

D14Rugby wrote: »

Yeah but while I don't know exactly what hardware or systems are in place surely the scanner on the right just reads the card, matches and tells the system its been scanned and the system does the rest? All you'd need to do it have it timestamp each scan which I think it already does and check if that time is within 90 minutes. I'm fairly confident the current hardware should be capable of it.

Their scanners for leap cards definitely aren't 20 years old anyway so just make it a leap card exclusive of even just have the driver read the physical tickets.

The machine needs to be able to work out whether someone is to be charged or not, store details of who has been charged and so on. They really don't have the processing power or storage to do this already yet alone another layer of complexity

It can't just take notes and charge later as the transaction has to actually be written to the card and anyway it hasn't got the storage to keep track

Polar101 · 19-07-2019 6:39am

The new version doesn't seem completely horrible. I hope they can manage to implement the "spine" routes - if we have that in place then the "local" lines can be tweaked later. The current system is so slow that ANY change is likely to be an improvement. It was just so depressing to see all the uninformed politicians going on about "BUSCONNECT AXES LOCAL BUS SERVICES".

cgcsb · 19-07-2019 9:33am

TheChrisD wrote: »

For anyone who can't quite visualise the changes listed in the big post... here's a custom map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1ilVsfzuzRQ7flK6arBnXwmllnuK1uqBa

Think I have everything reported in there. Only missing the locals because the fate of most of them has not yet been reported bar my own one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's impressive work. I can confirm that's pretty accurate. I'll provide more info on locals and expresses when I get the chance.

AlmightyCushion · 19-07-2019 9:44am

L1011 wrote: »

The machine needs to be able to work out whether someone is to be charged or not, store details of who has been charged and so on. They really don't have the processing power or storage to do this already yet alone another layer of complexity

It can't just take notes and charge later as the transaction has to actually be written to the card and anyway it hasn't got the storage to keep track

As AlekSmart points out above it does this for the €1 discount. How can it manage a €1 discount but not handle not charging under the same circumstances?

cgcsb · 19-07-2019 9:44am

I had cause to cycle through Pearse st, College st, Westmoreland St and the south quays in the evening rush a few days ago. This would be an unusual journey for me. It was absolute chaos. Cars just driving around, for significant distance in the bus lanes, cars parked in cycle lanes, Left hand drive tour buses trying to pull out, cyclists weaving in and out of cars and going up on footpaths to get past and pedestrians getting fed up waiting and walking out on front of buses.
Cars driving from Pearse to College st are doing so illegally but they are numerous and they will beep at you if they think you aren't cycling fast enough, and they do this in full view of Pearse St Garda station.

This needs to be fixed, there are too many buses using this area, which Bus Connects will partially fix. Cars have completely lost the run of themselves, they drive and park wherever they like, no consequences. Pedestrians have to wait for long periods to walk a few metres and there is no provision for cycling.

L1011 · 19-07-2019 10:02am

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

As AlekSmart points out above it does this for the €1 discount. How can it manage a €1 discount but not handle not charging under the same circumstances?

Rather different calculation basis and realistically the machines are at their limit.

LeinsterDub · 19-07-2019 10:09am

devnull wrote: »

The model of ticket machine DB are using is approx 20 years old and can barely cope with functionality it has now.

I'd imagine the 90 minute ticket will come when leap is relaunched

Stephen15 · 19-07-2019 10:12am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I'd imagine the 90 minute ticket will come when leap is relaunched

When's Leap due to be relaunched

BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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