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Bike Scheme like Dublin, Waterford misses out.

24

Comments

  • #52
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    7upfree wrote: »
    From your earlier post:

    "Do you really lay all the blame on the militant reputation of Waterford at the seat of our three TDs"

    In your rush to defend Government incompetence you have, effectively, blamed the people of Waterford city.

    And what, pray tell, is a "typical Waterford head"?

    I've already given examples of other places jumping up and down and being given their own way, but when it's Waterford it's because we are "militant"? WTF. Seriously?

    And as for who is going to rebuild for us - is that a serious question??!!

    Shame you didnt respond to my points on how government works and that I support the efforts of Waterford Crystal people etc and just continued on your rant about how its the TDs fault and the Government should just hand you a better Waterford. Who as you say has "jumped up and down and got their way"? Im intrigued to find out..

    As for typical Waterford head, I meant on issues such as the city, jobs etc people like YOU who sit back and put all of the blame for our woes on TDs or people who you work with who didnt back unions etc etc, I see it in the pubs in this city, the sense of entitlement from a certain faction is staggering. We should have more jobs, we should have more wages, we should have better roads, more shops etc etc. If you try to explain logic to these people they just stare at you dumbfounded before returning to their anti-Waterford conspiracy. If there is a sense that some companies wont invest here, its because enough of our militant reputation has spread to cause fear. I have seen it, I have heard it, I know what Im talking about.

    If you are not part of the solution 7UPFree, you are part of the problem.


  • #53
    ziedth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,081 ✭✭✭ziedth


    7upfree wrote: »
    Without the spin Sully? That post has answered questions that have been asked. Where is the problem with it? Without wearing your FG hat.......:)


    You have been warned countless times to cut that **** out, I'm going to be as clear as I can be. Your getting a one week ban however if you continue with this craic on your return it'll be a month off and after that it's permanent.


  • #54
    Roanmore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Roanmore


    7upfree wrote: »
    I would imagine all four would have been done simultaneously? If so, why not?

    So Waterford gets evaluated before the other 3 cities and you complain? Did you or Max Powers read the link in the OP?
    You and Max Powers have not addressed the question I asked earlier about why Waterford is so expensive, instead you decided to move the debate on to the Waterford TD's who (and I and not defending them in the slightest) have no influence on this decision.
    Seriously lads, if you are going to start a "everybody is against Waterford" rant please make sure it is legit because otherwise you sound delusional and pathetic.
    There are a lot of other issues where Waterford are getting a raw deal but when you highlight this issue as one you are making yourselves out to be a bunch of whingers especially when the reason for the scheme not going ahead is laid out so clearly in the link posted in the OP (and the poster who started the OP twice in this thread ignores what it says and posts his own review of it "full steam ahead for Cork, Limerick and Galway as you would (unfortunately) come to expect these days" and "The bike thing is not a massive issue but its just another kick when we are down i suppose. no sense of entitlement, Waterford was recommended for the bike scheme and the suddenly we are off it. Its rolled out to all the other cities". )

    Imagine if they turn around and say it's going ahead in any of those cities but it's too costly to pay for itself so the taxpayers are going to stump up money everybody here would justifiably be up in arms complaining about the cost.


  • #55
    O Riain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭O Riain


    How is the cost in Waterford too high and also how is that Galway with a significantly smaller population than limerick(to the tune of 20,000 less) gets more bikes? 200-250 bikes when cork gets 300? Seriously lads cork is around 5 times the size of Galway and it only gets between 50-100 bikes more?


  • #56
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    Looks to me like the numbers just didn't add up which also explains why there are more bikes in Galway than Cork, tourist numbers simples.
    For only the second time only I agree with Sully fight the real battles guys this is not one of them


  • #57
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    O Riain wrote: »
    How is the cost in Waterford too high and also how is that Galway with a significantly smaller population than limerick(to the tune of 20,000 less) gets more bikes? 200-250 bikes when cork gets 300? Seriously lads cork is around 5 times the size of Galway and it only gets between 50-100 bikes more?

    I'm only new to Waterford but I'd guess that Galway gets alot more tourists than Waterford. Any time I've been down there you would easily spot a few tourists.

    I hadn't really been to Waterford before I started working here but now that I'm here I'm surprised it was even considered for the Bike Scheme, I just don't see it as being big enough for it.


  • #58
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    For only the second time only I agree with Sully fight the real battles guys this is not one of them

    I'm taking a screengrab of this. :pac: :P


  • #59
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    Wanderer2010 wrote: »
    The other cities have more multi national companies setting up and investing there, creating a lot of employment. The other cities have a much higher population that Waterford. The other cities have the need for this scheme and the money behind it. Do you really lay all the blame on the militant reputation of Waterford at the seat of our three TDs. They dont even have a voice or any power in the Dail whatsoever. I know it they know it and the dogs on the street know it. Stop blaming them for every little thing that goes wrong in Waterford.

    All nonsense of course. Galway has to be one of the most unfriendly cities for cycling in Europe without a doubt.Limerick is hardly better. The urban sprawl there is riduculous and a national shame. Its population is also not that much greater than Waterford. Its amazing that a population difference between Limerick and Galway of over 20000 and Galway is automatically still in the game. Yet a smaller drop between Galway and Waterford and Waterford is excluded. Yet realistically there is hardly any difference at all, But the real issue here is that Waterford is more suited to this than any of the others because it is reasonably compact.The workforce in the three other cities is predominanty outside the commuter range of using bicycles. And Waterford doesn't have a miliitant reputation that stands up to scrutiny especially not compared to Galway, Limerick and Cork. But I agree with you about one thing our politicians have no voice or power. Which is the perfect reason to dispose of them.


  • #60
    Max Powers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    Roanmore wrote: »
    So Waterford gets evaluated before the other 3 cities and you complain? Did you or Max Powers read the link in the OP?
    You and Max Powers have not addressed the question I asked earlier about why Waterford is so expensive, instead you decided to move the debate on to the Waterford TD's who (and I and not defending them in the slightest) have no influence on this decision.
    Seriously lads, if you are going to start a "everybody is against Waterford" rant please make sure it is legit because otherwise you sound delusional and pathetic.
    There are a lot of other issues where Waterford are getting a raw deal but when you highlight this issue as one you are making yourselves out to be a bunch of whingers especially when the reason for the scheme not going ahead is laid out so clearly in the link posted in the OP (and the poster who started the OP twice in this thread ignores what it says and posts his own review of it "full steam ahead for Cork, Limerick and Galway as you would (unfortunately) come to expect these days" and "The bike thing is not a massive issue but its just another kick when we are down i suppose. no sense of entitlement, Waterford was recommended for the bike scheme and the suddenly we are off it. Its rolled out to all the other cities". )

    Imagine if they turn around and say it's going ahead in any of those cities but it's too costly to pay for itself so the taxpayers are going to stump up money everybody here would justifiably be up in arms complaining about the cost.

    As the original poster, this has really blown up over the weekend. Look lads, i think i said in my original post its not a massive deal, we would all prefer 20 jobs instead of any bikes, it just seems like another kick when you we are down, if we were never on the list, it wouldnt be as bad but on it, the off it for what seems like made up finanical reasons, seems a bit dodgy is all. I dont think its worth contacting my TD about, lack of jobs, investment etc is worth contacting your TD about, I should think we all agree on that. Just to clarify also, i dont think there is any sense of entitlement around here, a lot of anger
    is around though.


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  • #61
    Trotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭Trotter


    The anger is not necessarily that we weren't included in the scheme. It's more that its yet another thing that fits into the valid perception that no matter what, Waterford just can't get a break. While its not something I'm overly devastated by considering my belief that a huge amount of Waterford people want cyclists off the road either way, it is another example of a step forward that others are taking that we aren't.

    While this isn't a significant step to miss, when taken in the same glance as the general apparent policy of running Waterford into the floor, it does add to the frustration.


  • #62
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    We were considered.

    We were told it was too expensive to operate here, there was little interest and no sponsor came forward.

    There is a possibility we could still get it. There is a possibility others won't get it.

    Storm in a teacup. Completely. We were not undermined in anyway and we were not purposely neglected in anyway. We didn't meet the criteria but someone can still come forward during the tendering process and say "Hold your horses! Send down a few bikes there to those friendly folks in the Sunny South East, my treat!".

    This is what I hate. People assuming, people adding legs onto a story, people making up stuff and people all around exaggerating.


  • #63
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    When you see some of the locations in Dublin where these bike stations are located it is obvious that they are in some of the toughest parts of the inner city and not exactly tourist hot spots. These three particularly stand out.

    Upper Sherrard Street
    Hardwicke Street
    Mountjoy Square

    Other locations in Dublin where the bike stations are would be similarly associated with negative social issues but would have some tourist location in their vicinity. Examples:

    Custom House Quay
    Georges Quay
    James St.

    So the location of the stations and the bike scheme is not directed at any particular demograph but a varied one.So for 100 Bikes in Waterford you would need 10 stations. Where could they potentially be?

    Plunkett Station
    Bustation on Quay
    Clock Tower
    Bishops Palace/House of Waterford Crystal
    Reginalds Tower
    John Roberts Square
    Mayors Walk near cop shop
    Ballybricken opposite Carrolls
    Ardkeen near the Library/Stores
    John Roberts Square
    Main Gates of Peoples Park

    If 150 bikes is some sort of magic number to make it viable then include

    WIT Main Campus
    College St
    WRH
    RSC/Kingfisher
    The Glen
    Ferrybank

    So if the 150 bike figure is to cover availability as well as usage then it is not unreasonablr to expect that the number expected to be used would be approx 70 or 80 at any given time. So ask yourself this! Given that there is 10000 people studying at WIT is it unreasobble to expect that a mere 8-10 of them per day could use the bikes on a regular basis?
    Of the 12000 people working in the business parks of the city do you actually believe not even 10 of them could be found to use the bikes on a given day?150000 people visited Waterford Crystal on the mall in 2011 in economic harsh times. On average almost 500 a day every day of the year.
    50000 live in the city. Is it unreasonable to expect that 10 of them per day could not take a whim and decide to rent a bike?WRH has ALMOST 25000 admissions per year. Is it over reaching to think 10 people visiting the hospital would not rent a bike that would be free for the first half hour and then use it to get home or to cycle into town for their bus/ train?
    WRH has 120000 outpatients per year.thats 300 per day. 10 people per day would not use a bike to get to the hospital or back?

    Does anyone honestly think that not even 10 people who pass through Plunkett Station could be found to use these bikes.

    Ditto Bus Station
    Ditto Rapid Express near Bishops place.
    Ditto Ferrybank with a leisurly roll down a hill that would cost nothing.
    Ditto Dunmore Road.

    In order to use the system, users need to take out a subscription, which allows the subscriber an unlimited number of rentals. Subscriptions can get a Long Term Hire Card costing €10, or a 3 Day Ticket costing €2. Users also authorize Dublin Bikes to charge €150 from their credit card if the bike is not returned.[2] The first half-hour of every journey is free, after that a service charge applies. See below for pricing structure:

    Time Rate

    30 min Free
    1 hr €1.50
    2 hrs €3.50
    4 hrs €6.50

    After 4 hours, every extra 30 minutes costs €2. In practice, the system is virtually free to users as over 95% of journeys last less than 30 minutes.

    　
    This could easily be accomodated in Waterford. It would be the perfect method of connecting all the transport modes of the city as well the tourist locations that are not exactly in the city centre such as Mount Sion visitors centre,. Not to mention Mount Congreve, Tramore, Dunmore East,Passage East Car Ferry and Dunbrody Abbey and Duncannon,

    　

    This isn't the Western Rail Corridor. It would cost a few hundred grand and unlike the WRC it would be used.

    It doesn't make any money in Dublin. The idea that it would be a waste of money here is a nonsense. It does not add up what is being said in the report. It s another case of the line being drawn at Galway and F^ck the rest of ye!

    It's apparently cost prohibitive in Waterford but yet will be considered for smaller towns in the future.

    Let's wake up here for God's sake...


  • #64
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    I'd love to know how the study was done and where we can see the results. I'd have thought WIT alone would provide strong interest.


  • #65
    O Riain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭O Riain


    People need to understand here too that every journey made on a bicycle rather than a car reduces fuel consumption and so helps keep money within the economy. This further increases the schemes cost effectiveness and attractiveness here and for many other towns.


  • #66
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    This thread might be worth a bump as it looks like the bike scheme in Galway has been a bit disappointing according to the Irish Times.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/galway-bikes-users-make-less-than-one-trip-a-month-on-average-1.2423293

    I wonder how it would have fared here if it had been implemented. Shocking figures really for Galway considereing the amount of students in the city and tourists.


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  • #67
    Max Powers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    yeah, doesn t look great alright. Makes you wonder how it would have fared here, I certainly think the city centre to WIT route would be busy, Hospital to City Centre would possibly be busy too as it would have a bike lane (of sorts) but the short distances it mentions seem a bit silly. Afterall, in our city, you can walk a lot of places handily too.


  • #68
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,903 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    im not convinced at all that it work here even though its a nice idea. i dont think it would be viable at all


  • #69
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Max Powers wrote: »
    yeah, doesn t look great alright. Makes you wonder how it would have fared here, I certainly think the city centre to WIT route would be busy, Hospital to City Centre would possibly be busy too as it would have a bike lane (of sorts) but the short distances it mentions seem a bit silly. Afterall, in our city, you can walk a lot of places handily too.

    There's a bit of a hill going from the city centre out to the hospital so I dunno how the bikes would fair on that.


  • #70
    fiachr_a
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭fiachr_a


    These bicycles have no helmets, a major flaw. Waterford Council won't pay out from injuries on these bikes.


  • #71
    gordongekko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    Max Powers wrote: »
    yeah, doesn t look great alright. Makes you wonder how it would have fared here, I certainly think the city centre to WIT route would be busy, Hospital to City Centre would possibly be busy too as it would have a bike lane (of sorts) but the short distances it mentions seem a bit silly. Afterall, in our city, you can walk a lot of places handily too.

    The problem in galway is as you describe. No route to the hospital or gmit. All collection points are within about a 10 minute walk.


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  • #72
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    fiachr_a wrote: »
    These bicycles have no helmets, a major flaw. Waterford Council won't pay out from injuries on these bikes.

    It must be terrible living in your half empty glass,negative world, really awfull ,but probably worse to go for a pint with you.


  • #73
    JourneyMan8
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭JourneyMan8


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    It must be terrible living in your half empty glass,negative world, really awfull ,but probably worse to go for a pint with you.

    stating what's likely to be true is living in a negative world nowadays?

    anyway its never going to work in Waterford, facts and figures show that this kind of stuff only works in big cities or cities with large urban area's with a lot of different things to do, Waterford is spread out and sadly doesn't fit in to the categories these people are looking for.


  • #74
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    JourneyMan8 wrote: »
    stating what's likely to be true is living in a negative world nowadays?

    anyway its never going to work in Waterford, facts and figures show that this kind of stuff only works in big cities or cities with large urban area's with a lot of different things to do, Waterford is spread out and sadly doesn't fit in to the categories these people are looking for.
    No it is a comment on the poster nothing else ,I have my own bike!


  • #75
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    JourneyMan8 wrote: »
    stating what's likely to be true is living in a negative world nowadays?

    Is it true? I have seen these schemes in many places and provision of helmets was never part of them. As for whether it would work in Waterford or not we don't know because it wasn't tried.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bicycle-sharing_systems

    Your point of it needing to be part of large urban center does is also not necessarily true. The list of systems in Wikipedia have towns as small as 5000 people with them in Hungary. Towns as small as 25000 in Denmark.Many towns in Netherlands up to around 150000 have them. Incidentally the Netherlands system was the way to go with a National system in place and not specific to cities. If they had done it this way and allowed carriage on trains and in holds of buses you could have an effective national system or regional system.


  • #76
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    Roanmore wrote: »
    "A spokesperson for the NTA said that following analysis of the potential for a bicycle scheme in Waterford it was concluded that the cost per bike based on the scheme size would be too high."

    Any idea why the costs in Waterford would be too high, was any reason given?

    We're too small a city, sorry, town!


  • #77
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    We're too small a city, sorry, town!


    Where isn't in Ireland outside of say Dublin? But insincerity aside if it was seen as feasible for Galway and Limerick how did it suddenly become unfeasible for Waterford considering there is other places in Europe where villages have such schemes? There maybe be valid reasons but as usual in the Ireland of transparency we don't live in nobody has the answer other than some declaration that it would n costs are "too high". I would hazard if it was implemented the worst case scenario is that it would be somewhere between Galway and Limerick for user numbers.


  • #78
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    fiachr_a wrote: »
    These bicycles have no helmets, a major flaw. Waterford Council won't pay out from injuries on these bikes.

    There is no requirement under Irish law for cyclists to wear helmets, thankfully this is the case or even Dublin bikes would have been closed years ago due to lack of use.

    A major flaw would be making helmet use a legal requirement for any bike scheme in Ireland, it would kill the schemes.
    The fact that you think that having no legal requirement is a flaw to me suggests that you have little or no real life experience with these schemes and actually commuting in general via bikes.


  • #79
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    I would assume that Waterford City Council just don't want them anyway!

    Who would use them? Hardly college student owing to the amount of

    cars parked at the IT & surrounding estates!


  • #80
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    I would assume that Waterford City Council just don't want them anyway!

    Who would use them? Hardly college student owing to the amount of

    cars parked at the IT & surrounding estates!

    Wasn't this one of the critical things said about Dublin bikes.

    - Who's going to use them?
    - Sure they all be stolen or end up in the liffey
    - Its dangerous cycling them in the city
    - It rains too much in Dublin

    The reality is it actually rains less in Dublin then Amsterdam, plenty of people used them for getting to work to just nipping out to the shop for lunch. They are students and also solicitors using them.

    Sure students drive to WIT but lots of students also walk or get the bus, students in some parts of the city have crap options when its comes to bus use so giving them cycle options would encourage alternative use other then cars which cost alot more to use, maintain etc


  • #81
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Wasn't this one of the critical things said about Dublin bikes.

    - Who's going to use them?
    - Sure they all be stolen or end up in the liffey
    - Its dangerous cycling them in the city
    - It rains too much in Dublin

    The reality is it actually rains less in Dublin then Amsterdam, plenty of people used them for getting to work to just nipping out to the shop for lunch. They are students and also solicitors using them.

    Sure students drive to WIT but lots of students also walk or get the bus, students in some parts of the city have crap options when its comes to bus use so giving them cycle options would encourage alternative use other then cars which cost alot more to use, maintain etc

    Certainly you've a very different type of urban population in Dublin which isn't present in most if not all the other Irish cities. A significant number of the population wouldn't own a car. A significant proportion of those that do own cars wouldn't or couldn't bring it anywhere near the city.

    Waterford city centre is pretty dead at the best of times. Maybe you'd get some benefit from people driving as far as the park and cycling a bit further into town. Maybe students moving between the Cork Road and the Manor Street Campus and the city centre might generate some demand.

    A pilot involving WIT could actually be a worthwhile exercise.


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  • #82
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    hardybuck wrote: »
    Waterford city centre is pretty dead at the best of times. Maybe you'd get some benefit from people driving as far as the park and cycling a bit further into town. Maybe students moving between the Cork Road and the Manor Street Campus and the city centre might generate some demand.

    A pilot involving WIT could actually be a worthwhile exercise.

    I'd have to agree that there are certainly concerns about usage within the city centre, but a trial of a scheme that links toe college campuses with the city centre might be worthwhole


  • #83
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    There is a lack of joined up thinking here regards this. The dutch system was the way to go. Or one system for Dublin and another for the rest of the country. 1500 bikes operating in Dublin and another 1500 across the country in say the 10 largest urban centers for arguments sake and a facility to use trains and luggage compartments in buses. One company to manage collect and redistribute the bikes where needed. It would have made public transport a lot more flexible as I suspect given the chance a lot of people who could use public transport but dislike waiting for the second bus etc would avail of the bike instead.

    There is also a narrow idea that the bikes would be just used in the city center or in Waterford. This not necessarily the case. A tourist with the right knowledge might venture out to passage and across the ferry to say Duncannon. Or on the train up to Kilkenny or vice versa. Or simply out to Tramore. A taxi out to the hospital from town is 10 Euro.Anyone visiting a relative out there knows what a clusterf*ck the parking is out there. Given the chance I suspect there is no shortage of people who would cycle the 15 mins back into town if the alternative was there.


  • #84
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    There is a lack of joined up thinking here regards this. The dutch system was the way to go. Or one system for Dublin and another for the rest of the country. 1500 bikes operating in Dublin and another 1500 across the country in say the 10 largest urban centers for arguments sake and a facility to use trains and luggage compartments in buses. One company to manage collect and redistribute the bikes where needed. It would have made public transport a lot more flexible as I suspect given the chance a lot of people who could use public transport but dislike waiting for the second bus etc would avail of the bike instead.

    There is also a narrow idea that the bikes would be just used in the city center or in Waterford. This not necessarily the case. A tourist with the right knowledge might venture out to passage and across the ferry to say Duncannon. Or on the train up to Kilkenny or vice versa. Or simply out to Tramore. A taxi out to the hospital from town is 10 Euro.Anyone visiting a relative out there knows what a clusterf*ck the parking is out there. Given the chance I suspect there is no shortage of people who would cycle the 15 mins back into town if the alternative was there.

    In reference to your second paragraph, I think yes we are specifically talking about use in or around the city. The City Bikes would not be suitable for going to somewhere like Passage.

    You're right about people bringing their own bikes on public transport. Irish Rail to have facilities, but nothing on the buses, unless you have a folding bike.


  • #85
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    hardybuck wrote: »
    In reference to your second paragraph, I think yes we are specifically talking about use in or around the city. The City Bikes would not be suitable for going to somewhere like Passage.

    You're right about people bringing their own bikes on public transport. Irish Rail to have facilities, but nothing on the buses, unless you have a folding bike.


    Not at all. I have seen people cycle these frequently to places like Lucan in Dublin or along the coast to Bray and Killiney which is more demanding than a leisurely jaunt to Passage. Cycling to Passage East for the majority of people would be undemanding bar the very young,very old and the sick. About 7 miles.In the Netherlands I see tourists doing similar trips on a massive scale. As for the public transport. You could reserve space for eight bikes in the luggage compartment of an expressway bus and 80% of the space is would still be available. Restricting it to outside of peak times or to these types of bike would probably mean no modifications would be required at all.We are talking minor logistical issues here that can be solved without any great thought.


  • #86
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    Not at all. I have seen people cycle these frequently to places like Lucan in Dublin or along the coast to Bray and Killiney which is more demanding than a leisurely jaunt to Passage. Cycling to Passage East for the majority of people would be undemanding bar the very young,very old and the sick. About 7 miles.In the Netherlands I see tourists doing similar trips on a massive scale. As for the public transport. You could reserve space for eight bikes in the luggage compartment of an expressway bus and 80% of the space is would still be available. Restricting it to outside of peak times or to these types of bike would probably mean no modifications would be required at all.We are talking minor logistical issues here that can be solved without any great thought.

    I'll be honest with you, I've lived in Dublin for a number of years now and I've never seen them outside of the city centre. I must ask a few people about that to see if anyone else has seen them in the surrounding towns.


  • #87
    tonc76
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭tonc76


    hardybuck wrote: »
    I'll be honest with you, I've lived in Dublin for a number of years now and I've never seen them outside of the city centre. I must ask a few people about that to see if anyone else has seen them in the surrounding towns.

    I'll second that. Outside of the city centre I've never seen anyone on one of these bikes and I'm regularly all over the city. Has Fuzzy ever ridden one of the bikes? They're ideal for short trips but I wouldn't be venturing on a trip to Bray, Lucan etc.


  • #88
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    hardybuck wrote: »
    I'll be honest with you, I've lived in Dublin for a number of years now and I've never seen them outside of the city centre. I must ask a few people about that to see if anyone else has seen them in the surrounding towns.

    I saw a couple on the cycle path from Clontarf out to Sutton once but that route is perfectly flat.

    I don't know how these bikes would operate on a hilly surface which is what there is in a few spots in Waterford, the bikes themselves only have 3 gears so I don't think they'd be in any way nice to cycle on around Waterford (ie out to Passage, Dunmore, Tramore, or Kilmeaden). Even in the city itself there are some big enough hills like going up to Ballybricken or out to Ardkeen.

    As for students using them I don't know how much of a runner that is as then you might find that all the bikes go out from the city centre in the morning and end up parked up in WIT so no one in the city would get to use them. In Dublin there's no stations in DCU or UCD which are only a few kms away from the city centre.


  • #89
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    I saw a couple on the cycle path from Clontarf out to Sutton once but that route is perfectly flat.

    I don't know how these bikes would operate on a hilly surface which is what there is in a few spots in Waterford, the bikes themselves only have 3 gears so I don't think they'd be in any way nice to cycle on around Waterford (ie out to Passage, Dunmore, Tramore, or Kilmeaden). Even in the city itself there are some big enough hills like going up to Ballybricken or out to Ardkeen.

    As for students using them I don't know how much of a runner that is as then you might find that all the bikes go out from the city centre in the morning and end up parked up in WIT so no one in the city would get to use them. In Dublin there's no stations in DCU or UCD which are only a few kms away from the city centre.

    Yeah they're not suitable for cycling long distances. The station up in North Wall wouldn't be a massive jaunt, but I'd say the people on them were happy enough to give them back when they were finished!

    I've rented mountain bikes in places like San Francisco and that was a brilliant way of seeing the city. That would be a far more practical way of promoting tourism.


  • #90
    fiachr_a
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭fiachr_a


    Cabaal wrote: »
    There is no requirement under Irish law for cyclists to wear helmets, thankfully this is the case or even Dublin bikes would have been closed years ago due to lack of use
    I never said there's a law for this. A dozen people died last year from cycling in this country. If they've no helmet it's their own life at risk. There's an increase in deaths and serious accidents from cycling in recent years. No doubt due to these free bike schemes that don't require a helmet.


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  • #91
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    fiachr_a wrote: »
    I never said there's a law for this. A dozen people died last year from cycling in this country. If they've no helmet it's their own life at risk. There's an increase in deaths and serious accidents from cycling in recent years. No doubt due to these free bike schemes that don't require a helmet.

    Uh no. There is no hard evidence that helmets save lives. The key point about the bikeshare schemes is that they have shown that urban cycling by adults wearing ordinary clothes can have a very low injury risk.

    In Dublin there has only been one fatality and that involved a DB bike user who had taken alcohol and cycled into a stationary taxi.

    So what the bikeshare schemes have shown is that helmets and helmet laws are not needed for normal everyday cycling.


  • #92
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    fiachr_a wrote: »
    I never said there's a law for this. A dozen people died last year from cycling in this country. If they've no helmet it's their own life at risk. There's an increase in deaths and serious accidents from cycling in recent years. No doubt due to these free bike schemes that don't require a helmet.

    With all due respect you're making alot of incorrect assumptions here. There's one death I'm aware of by somebody using the Dublin bikes scheme, if you think there's been more then please produce the proof.

    When it comes to cycle deaths in general most are caused by hgvs, no helmet will stop an entire body being crushed by a truck.

    Ironically some research on helmets has shown that motorists actually give less Road space to a cyclist wearing a helmet when compared to one not wearing one.

    From my observations over the years, most of the time the people who believe helmets should be made law lack any real world experience cycling day to day and have not even bothered to read any research on the topic. The problem is such people have a perception that cycling is more dangerous then it actually is in reality.


  • #93
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    tonc76 wrote: »
    I'll second that. Outside of the city centre I've never seen anyone on one of these bikes and I'm regularly all over the city. Has Fuzzy ever ridden one of the bikes? They're ideal for short trips but I wouldn't be venturing on a trip to Bray, Lucan etc.


    Not the Dublin ones but I have used them elsewhere. Yes there not the most comfortable of bikes but that is not the point. A 10km (40 mins) cycle is by no means excessive for these bikes. And while they are not used en masse to travel to outer parts of Dublin I have seen them while I was living there on occasion out towards the west i.e between Chapelizod and Lucan. However they are not uncommon at all in places along the coast like Dalkey and Killiney or Portmarnock and Howth. Its outlandish to think these are the type of places that are not ideally in range for such bikes for someone who wants to explore Dublin.


  • #94
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,754 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    JourneyMan8 wrote: »
    stating what's likely to be true is living in a negative world nowadays?

    anyway its never going to work in Waterford, facts and figures show that this kind of stuff only works in big cities or cities with large urban area's with a lot of different things to do, Waterford is spread out and sadly doesn't fit in to the categories these people are looking for.

    Spain has 132 separate bike share schemes. Spain does not have 132 large urban areas. I'd say maybe the top 30 are in Cities larger than Waterford.


  • #95
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,754 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    tonc76 wrote: »
    I'll second that. Outside of the city centre I've never seen anyone on one of these bikes and I'm regularly all over the city. Has Fuzzy ever ridden one of the bikes? They're ideal for short trips but I wouldn't be venturing on a trip to Bray, Lucan etc.

    I've cycled one out to hazelhatch along the canal once, nice journey.


  • #96
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,754 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    you might find that all the bikes go out from the city centre in the morning and end up parked up in WIT so no one in the city would get to use them.
    Same problem encountered and solved in Dublin
    CatFromHue wrote: »
    In Dublin there's no stations in DCU or UCD which are only a few kms away from the city centre.

    The scheme doesn't yet extend that far out there are stations around Trinity and the DIT campuses with more stations planned for the new DIT campus.


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  • #97
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,754 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    fiachr_a wrote: »
    There's an increase in deaths and serious accidents from cycling in recent years. No doubt due to these free bike schemes that don't require a helmet.

    No serious incidents reported on Dublin Bikes this year.


  • #98
    JourneyMan8
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭JourneyMan8


    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    Not at all. I have seen people cycle these frequently to places like Lucan in Dublin or along the coast to Bray and Killiney which is more demanding than a leisurely jaunt to Passage. Cycling to Passage East for the majority of people would be undemanding bar the very young,very old and the sick. About 7 miles.In the Netherlands I see tourists doing similar trips on a massive scale. As for the public transport. You could reserve space for eight bikes in the luggage compartment of an expressway bus and 80% of the space is would still be available. Restricting it to outside of peak times or to these types of bike would probably mean no modifications would be required at all.We are talking minor logistical issues here that can be solved without any great thought.

    you'd want to be the fittest man in waterford to take on a trip to passage with one of these scheme bikes with the amount of hills and stuff.

    can we stop comparing us to the Dutch, they are obsessed with their bikes and their flat surfaces are perfect for it.


  • #99
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    JourneyMan8 wrote: »
    you'd want to be the fittest man in waterford to take on a trip to passage with one of these scheme bikes with the amount of hills and stuff.

    Ballix! A 10 year old could do it. You would want to be some lazy b@stard to think this is some sort of strong man effort.
    JourneyMan8 wrote: »
    can we stop comparing us to the Dutch, they are obsessed with their bikes and their flat surfaces are perfect for it.

    Why? because you don't like it? Better that than a country overflowing with obese couch potatoes...

    http://italicroots.lefora.com/topic/497/Obesity-rates-in-Europe#.VkTKDHarSUk


  • #100
    fiachr_a
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭fiachr_a


    cgcsb wrote: »
    No serious incidents reported on Dublin Bikes this year.

    Dublin is the most dangerous place for cyclists.

    http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/record-level-of-cycling-injuries-31002997.html


  • #101
    JourneyMan8
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭JourneyMan8


    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    Ballix! A 10 year old could do it. You would want to be some lazy b@stard to think this is some sort of strong man effort.



    Why? because you don't like it? Better that than a country overflowing with obese couch potatoes...

    http://italicroots.lefora.com/topic/497/Obesity-rates-in-Europe#.VkTKDHarSUk

    I cycle every day and even I find it hard on a proper bike so I wouldn't like to think how someone who doesn't would take to it.

    lol I said don't compare because they have loved their bikes for years and have flat surfaces and great conditions for it unlike us, and your response is about obesity?? makes sense.


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