Bike Scheme like Dublin, Waterford misses out.

Max Powers · 12-06-2013 4:20pm #1

Seems like they were in favour of it a few months ago, then they changed their mind on Waterford, full steam ahead for Cork, Limerick and Galway as you would (unfortunately) come to expect these days. Its a shame as I think it is a great idea and im sure would have been a success if installed especially since the city is becoming more pedestrian/cyclist friendly with works on the Mall and Quays, not to mention bike lanes outside of that. to be honest, it just feels like another kick in the teeth for Waterford from the govt., the bike scheme itself isnt a massive deal but it just feels like we arent getting a fair deal as usual. I havent seen anything to think that we are being helped significantly with our employment problem etc. If the city was more vibrant with people/locals, im sure this would help things like this, make it more attractive for potential business sponsors etc, the way it is, with the unemployment and people happy to stay in their locals (and other reasons im sure) businesses and the govt feel its fine to look past us.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0611/456034-public-bike-scheme-cities/

...The news will come as a disappointment to Waterford City however, as it has not been included for a bike scheme.
This is despite the NTA having included a scheme for Waterford last November when seeking expressions of interests from potential sponsors of the bike schemes.
At the time a mooted scheme for the city included 10 docking stations and the 80 to 100 bikes.
A spokesperson for the NTA said that following analysis of the potential for a bicycle scheme in Waterford it was concluded that the cost per bike based on the scheme size would be too high.
She said that the tender documents do include the stipulation that other cities and towns may be added during the tender process.
The spokesperson also confirmed the NTA is talking to a potential sponsor of the schemes in Galway, Cork and Limerick....

Max Powers · 12-06-2013 4:29pm

after thought....i wonder if the money trumpeted by Ciara conway spent/wasted on the tramore road bike lane have been better spent on the city bike scheme. i posted the figures about that before here, the break up of the money to consultants, designers etc was pathetic, bordering on scandalous, how many designers does one need to paid some lines on a road for a couple of miles.

Better spent on her traditional county voters maybe.

http://www.smartertravel.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/NCN%20Application%20Form-Tramore%20Final.pdf

Cabaal · 12-06-2013 5:47pm

Its a shame alright, would have been a perfect way to enable workers and students to get from the likes of the middle of town and ardkrean out to WIT/IDA.

S28382 · 12-06-2013 7:56pm

The rest of Ireland hates Waterford...........Fu*k me these Waterford misses out threads are getting boring.

Jason Todd · 12-06-2013 10:51pm

S28382 wrote: »

The rest of Ireland hates Waterford...........Fu*k me these Waterford misses out threads are getting boring.

Nice contribution to the thread.

Roanmore · 12-06-2013 11:57pm

"A spokesperson for the NTA said that following analysis of the potential for a bicycle scheme in Waterford it was concluded that the cost per bike based on the scheme size would be too high."

Any idea why the costs in Waterford would be too high, was any reason given?

S28382 · 13-06-2013 7:48am

Jason Todd wrote: »

Nice contribution to the thread.

Thanks buddy and your a world of information yourself.

You see some Waterford people have this entitlement feeling in their heads and it makes them think that whatever is going around that Waterford should get it over every other county in the country and those said people go on Boards and give out like babies when Waterford doesnt get it. So low and behold some one else doesnt agree and then comes the childish comments just like yours Mr Todd. Grow up my friend im allowed reply in a non threatening or abusive way in which i have this isnt the Ray Darcy thread its not all about whinging.

Jason Todd · 13-06-2013 8:28am

S28382 wrote: »

Thanks buddy and your a world of information yourself.

You see some Waterford people have this entitlement feeling in their heads and it makes them think that whatever is going around that Waterford should get it over every other county in the country and those said people go on Boards and give out like babies when Waterford doesnt get it. So low and behold some one else doesnt agree and then comes the childish comments just like yours Mr Todd. Grow up my friend im allowed reply in a non threatening or abusive way in which i have this isnt the Ray Darcy thread its not all about whinging.

Nothing childish about my post. Sarcastic, yes. Childish? No.

No-one is asking to get anything 'over' other counties, just asking for the 'same' as the other cities.

I didn't realise you didn't agree with the OP, you were too busy getting a dig in at 'the whingers' to explain why you felt Waterford should NOT have got the bike scheme. That's why I called you up on your post.

Max Powers · 13-06-2013 8:44am

I dont think anyone here is whining, all we ever and still want is a level playing field, fair share of investment, jobs etc. The bike thing is not a massive issue but its just another kick when we are down i suppose. no sense of entitlement, Waterford was recommended for the bike scheme and the suddenly we are off it. Its rolled out to all the other cities, Waterford is doing more for cyclists then a lot of other cities with a fair amount of cycle/bus lanes (dunmore road, carrickphierish, along the quay etc) I think we have put in more than a fair effort and I dont buy the excuses/reasons given in the article.

Personally, I like to highlight a lot of the positives going on around the city and in turn I do my utmost to support these initiatives and businesses in the city, often even when it doesnt suit so im not being overly negative.

PS.. id say part of the reason i put this up is another example of govt or govt agency paying lip service to Waterfords problems but in reality doing little. Jobs announcements with significant IDA/govt backing; 200 in nypro, 75 in Glanbia, no where near enough to tackle our problems here.

Psychedelic · 13-06-2013 1:22pm

Here's why Waterford is not included:

Paudie Coffey TD ‏@PaudieCoffey 12 Jun
@leonard76_ according to NTA current no. of potential users makes it unviable - now if Dunmore & Tramore were included it might be different

Paudie Coffey TD ‏@PaudieCoffey 12 Jun
@leonard76_ my understanding request for demonstration of interest, viability exam and survey was done - need to query this further

CIARA CONWAY T.D. ‏@ciaramconway 12 Jun
@PaudieCoffey @leonard76_ also believe a private investor / sponsor cannot be secured

Jason Todd · 13-06-2013 2:21pm

Psychedelic wrote: »

Here's why Waterford is not included:

Paudie Coffey TD ‏@PaudieCoffey 12 Jun
@leonard76_ according to NTA current no. of potential users makes it unviable - now if Dunmore & Tramore were included it might be different

I wonder when the councils are merged will it have a positive effect on something like this, for example?

fricatus · 13-06-2013 4:21pm

Psychedelic wrote: »

Here's why Waterford is not included:

Paudie Coffey TD ‏@PaudieCoffey 12 Jun
@leonard76_ according to NTA current no. of potential users makes it unviable - now if Dunmore & Tramore were included it might be different

Tramore being a bit detached from the city seems to be a real problem. Any other town of 10,000 people would have its own hospital, IDA business park, etc., but Tramore people are expected just to share the facilities in Waterford city.

Fair enough, as it's only 7 miles out the road, you might say, but then Waterford seems only ever to be catered for on the basis of its own population - with Tramore never being considered as part of the city for resource planning purposes.

Maybe the new Metropolitan District mightn't be a bad thing after all - anyone know what the population of the new district is? I found this map, but I can't find any population breakdown:

http://www.boundarycommittee.ie/reports/Ireland-Map.pdf

fricatus · 13-06-2013 4:27pm

fricatus wrote: »

Maybe the new Metropolitan District mightn't be a bad thing after all - anyone know what the population of the new district is? I found this map, but I can't find any population breakdown:

http://www.boundarycommittee.ie/reports/Ireland-Map.pdf

Actually, I just found it... isn't Google great!

Metropolitan district: 65,928
County: 47,867

hardybuck · 13-06-2013 4:49pm

Is there anything Waterford can proactively do itself rather than wait to be included in a national scheme?

Organisations like the Chamber of Commerce, Bord Failte and the City Council should all be looking to progress plans to develop a Waterford Bike Scheme.

Sully · 13-06-2013 5:12pm

This was mentioned ages ago and there were difficulties in securing sponsors IIRC. Was discussed on Boards. If studies were done and suggested that there would not be demand and no finances locally, we can't expect to have such a service. It doesn't appear to be a proper comparison for the "them vs us" debate.

Lets see what the facts are before jumping the gone, maybe? It appears the grounds for Waterford not having one is valid based on the initial findings.

As for Tramore needing or should be considered for a hospital or IDA - this isnt the right planning. Waterford City has ample services a short distance.and it doesn't need to are more services splintered. The problems Tramore have are for general financing which Dungarvan doesn't appear to give much for a popular large town like Tramore. But all of this isn't for this thread to be fair.

Wanderer2010 · 13-06-2013 5:49pm

It still makes me laugh to read people who post "Galway, Limerick and Dublin got x, y and z, therefore Waterford should get similar. Its this simple: Population of Limerick > Waterford. Population of Galway > Waterford. Population of Dublin >Waterford.

No council is going to give funding for any project which wont make money back in some way and if the population allows for it then yes, these things will become reality but the way Waterford is at the moment, what with no major retail centre (City Square is very poor and so many shops have closed down), mass emmigration and unemployment at an all time high, there isnt the political will to hand over some cash for what would no doubt be a niche and unprofitable scheme. Instead of whining about how hard done by Waterford is we should be doing more to get behind projects like Winterval etc and thinking up of fresh and original ideas to keep our name out there.

hardybuck · 13-06-2013 6:03pm

Having a population of a certain size doesn't mean that certain projects will or won't work. They will depend on people's willingness to make use of them.

Dublin's scheme became a template for how cities like London and Paris developed their own scheme. As a much smaller city, you'd expect it to be the other way around.

Jakarta started construction on a metro system only this year, and they have a population of 15 million. Meanwhile places like Rennes in France have a subway with a population of about 200,000.

I can see how a bike scheme which allowed people to get from places like Ardkeen to People's Park, WIT's College Campus to the Cork Road Campus, the train station to the city centre etc. would be utilised by people, but who knows I suppose!?

Roanmore · 13-06-2013 6:53pm

The link in the OP said it may go ahead in Cork, Limerick and Galway so I don't know where the "full steam ahead" is coming from. There is a tender process to get through first so it may go the same way as the Waterford scheme.

Wanderer2010 · 13-06-2013 7:04pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Having a population of a certain size doesn't mean that certain projects will or won't work. They will depend on people's willingness to make use of them.

Dublin's scheme became a template for how cities like London and Paris developed their own scheme. As a much smaller city, you'd expect it to be the other way around.

Jakarta started construction on a metro system only this year, and they have a population of 15 million. Meanwhile places like Rennes in France have a subway with a population of about 200,000.

I can see how a bike scheme which allowed people to get from places like Ardkeen to People's Park, WIT's College Campus to the Cork Road Campus, the train station to the city centre etc. would be utilised by people, but who knows I suppose!?

I just dont think it would take off here. Waterford is a ghost town after 5pm weekdays, town centre is like a graveyard, nothing is open nothing to do and no buzz. People only emerge at Friday nights and even then are frugal about parting with money, so there isnt enough of a reason to set up this scheme, It may be used from Monday to Friday by people and no doubt some would find it very handy but enough to satisfy the bean counters? I would bet no.

Jason Todd · 13-06-2013 8:15pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

It still makes me laugh to read people who post "Galway, Limerick and Dublin got x, y and z, therefore Waterford should get similar. Its this simple: Population of Limerick > Waterford. Population of Galway > Waterford. Population of Dublin >Waterford.

No council is going to give funding for any project which wont make money back in some way and if the population allows for it then yes, these things will become reality but the way Waterford is at the moment, what with no major retail centre (City Square is very poor and so many shops have closed down), mass emmigration and unemployment at an all time high, there isnt the political will to hand over some cash for what would no doubt be a niche and unprofitable scheme. Instead of whining about how hard done by Waterford is we should be doing more to get behind projects like Winterval etc and thinking up of fresh and original ideas to keep our name out there.

Nothing wrong with wanting the best for your City. The town has fallen so far behind, why let other cities have schemes that may benefit them and not us? Why not run it on a trial scheme first even?

Just on what you said about City Square, it's not 'very poor' in fairness, it's probably only decent at best but I think you were doing it a disservice there.

And as has been pointed out in this forum already, most units that had shops close have reopened with new shops in them already.

I totally agree about what you say about Winterval etc. I definitely think that we should be doing everything in our power to be creative for the City and maybe even become a leader in forward-thinking for cities and towns of our size.

Chiparus · 13-06-2013 10:54pm

Max Powers wrote: »

I dont think anyone here is whining, all we ever and still want is a level playing field, fair share of investment, jobs etc. The bike thing is not a massive issue but its just another kick when we are down i suppose. no sense of entitlement, Waterford was recommended for the bike scheme and the suddenly we are off it. Its rolled out to all the other cities, Waterford is doing more for cyclists then a lot of other cities with a fair amount of cycle/bus lanes (dunmore road, carrickphierish, along the quay etc) I think we have put in more than a fair effort and I dont buy the excuses/reasons given in the article.

Personally, I like to highlight a lot of the positives going on around the city and in turn I do my utmost to support these initiatives and businesses in the city, often even when it doesnt suit so im not being overly negative.

PS.. id say part of the reason i put this up is another example of govt or govt agency paying lip service to Waterfords problems but in reality doing little. Jobs announcements with significant IDA/govt backing; 200 in nypro, 75 in Glanbia, no where near enough to tackle our problems here.

The cycle lane along the Dunmore road is a joke.As for the cycle lane on William street, where the council have randomly drawn a bicycle on the road and double yellow lines over it.:):)

Max Powers · 14-06-2013 2:03pm

Chiparus wrote: »

The cycle lane along the Dunmore road is a joke.As for the cycle lane on William street, where the council have randomly drawn a bicycle on the road and double yellow lines over it.:):)

i dont think so, a lot of it is perfect and then some of it is in a bus lane so thats even better. Along cork road too, plenty of space. a bit of balance wouldnt go astray here, yeah parts of the dunmore road one are a bit tight, but they were hardly gonna CPO property and road realignment for bikes. William st, doesnt have a cycle lane but those bikes painted on road are to remind drivers.

Max Powers · 14-06-2013 2:06pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I just dont think it would take off here. Waterford is a ghost town after 5pm weekdays, town centre is like a graveyard, nothing is open nothing to do and no buzz. People only emerge at Friday nights and even then are frugal about parting with money, so there isnt enough of a reason to set up this scheme, It may be used from Monday to Friday by people and no doubt some would find it very handy but enough to satisfy the bean counters? I would bet no.

a common attitude but an incorrect one. people are too lazy and stuck in a rut to do anything. Theatre royal, garter lane, cinema, city centre pubs instead of cosy local same heads, red kettle do some mad stuff, galleries, unusual filsms being shown, bands.....plenty to do.

7upfree · 14-06-2013 9:08pm

S28382 wrote: »

The rest of Ireland hates Waterford...........Fu*k me these Waterford misses out threads are getting boring.

Wonderful contribution. What do you want people to do - accept it? And say nowt? Great plan....:rolleyes:

S28382 · 15-06-2013 1:13pm

7upfree wrote: »

Wonderful contribution. What do you want people to do - accept it? And say nowt? Great plan....:rolleyes:

Thank you for recognising my wonderful contribution.

I dont really care what people do if some one wants to let things like this upset them then that is entirely their choice but you must admit it is getting boring seeing the constant us against them attitude that seems to be getting even more prevailant on the Waterford forum.

hfallada · 15-06-2013 1:22pm

Why should have waterford gotten one? Its extremely expensive to build and in Dublin it still only covers a very small area for the size of the city. The money would be better spent expanding Dublins one considering how small it is and the density of Dublin.

7upfree · 15-06-2013 2:25pm

S28382 wrote: »

Thank you for recognising my wonderful contribution.

I dont really care what people do if some one wants to let things like this upset them then that is entirely their choice but you must admit it is getting boring seeing the constant us against them attitude that seems to be getting even more prevailant on the Waterford forum.

I disagree. Waterford - as a city - is being deliberately held back and kept under the cosh by vested interests within Government. We must ensure that we are heard at every opportunity. Imagine if, say, Cork had been left out.

Oh - I don't have to. Remember the hissy fit a certain Mr. Martin threw when WRTC was upgraded to WIT because Cork could "miss out"? See where this is going?

7upfree · 15-06-2013 2:27pm

hfallada wrote: »

Why should have waterford gotten one? Its extremely expensive to build and in Dublin it still only covers a very small area for the size of the city. The money would be better spent expanding Dublins one considering how small it is and the density of Dublin.

The other three cities outside Dublin are getting it. Did you not read the OP? This is what happens when there is no City-based TD representing us. The three sitting TDs are an unmitigated disaster for the City.

Wanderer2010 · 15-06-2013 2:34pm

7upfree wrote: »

The other three cities outside Dublin are getting it. Did you not read the OP? This is what happens when there is no City-based TD representing us. The three sitting TDs are an unmitigated disaster for the City.

The other cities have more multi national companies setting up and investing there, creating a lot of employment. The other cities have a much higher population that Waterford. The other cities have the need for this scheme and the money behind it. Do you really lay all the blame on the militant reputation of Waterford at the seat of our three TDs. They dont even have a voice or any power in the Dail whatsoever. I know it they know it and the dogs on the street know it. Stop blaming them for every little thing that goes wrong in Waterford.

7upfree · 15-06-2013 2:41pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

The other cities have more multi national companies setting up and investing there, creating a lot of employment. The other cities have a much higher population that Waterford. The other cities have the need for this scheme and the money behind it. Do you really lay all the blame on the militant reputation of Waterford at the seat of our three TDs. They dont even have a voice or any power in the Dail whatsoever. I know it they know it and the dogs on the street know it. Stop blaming them for every little thing that goes wrong in Waterford.

For God's sake man - THEY'RE IN THE DAIL! They were elected to represent us. They should be jumping up and down about everything that has happened. They're not. Following the party whip like sheep. So you now want to blame the people of Waterford City for the discrimination being practised against us?

So no other City is "militant"? Was Cork's push against WIT not "militant"?

Sweet Jesus. There is no hope . There really isn't. Not with attitudes like that prevailing.

BTW, Limerick's population 57k, Waterford's almost 50k. So I fail to see your point.

O Riain · 15-06-2013 2:50pm

7upfree wrote: »

For God's sake man - THEY'RE IN THE DAIL! They were elected to represent us. They should be jumping up and down about everything that has happened. They're not. Following the party whip like sheep. So you now want to blame the people of Waterford City for the discrimination being practised against us?

So no other City is "militant"? Was Cork's push against WIT not "militant"?

Sweet Jesus. There is no hope . There really isn't. Not with attitudes like that prevailing.

BTW, Limerick's population 57k, Waterford's almost 50k. So I fail to see your point.

In fairness Limericks population is just about 100k but the 'metropolitan' district of waterford is 68k, Galway is 73k so if they can have it, we should also be able to

Bike Scheme like Dublin, Waterford misses out.

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