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M50 - apalling gridlock

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12357…20

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    #122
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    I'm sorry if this is unfair but you seem like the type who if they had a Metro on their doorstep ,to the gym , the school and work you'd find some other excuse to drive.

    I dont like cycling or public transport so I probably would drive.

    My ideal would be to work within walking distance because then I could run it or walk it.

    I did cycle or walk for years to work.

    But when youre looking at a distance of 20k+, and when I consider how I live (ie, gym, shopping etc during working hours) - then driving is the only real option for me.


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    #123
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    QueenMTBee wrote: »
    I do this every day. I have a 50 minute train journey plus a 10 minute walk each end. I have a set of work clothes, at least one set of gym clothes (often a second set), my breakfast and lunch and snacks, my makeup bag, kindle/laptop. Sometimes even another change of clothes if I'm going out for dinner/drinks after work. Then anything I buy in the shops. It takes some planning but it's very do-able when you have no other option. I'm lucky in that my office has showers, a towel service and a drying room.

    Id possibly do it on a train with showers available in work. And a 10 minute walk.

    I wouldnt do it with a bike for 20k+.


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    #124
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Hurrache wrote: »
    It's a hospital though, it's better suited to being on the periphery of the M50 rather than in the city.

    For emergency services, it's a bad location. I would hope the ambulance services know which hospital is a shorter trip from different parts of the city at different times, and I'm sure Tallaght is a better destination from some places that are physically closer to James's.

    But hospitals are more than A&E, and accessibility is more than ambulance journey times.


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    #125
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    metricspaces wrote: »
    Why do you think public transport will change sufficiently in the short to medium term compared to previous 5, 10, 15 years such that it will allow people leave their cars at home?

    Public finances would suggest it will not...
    BusConnects is an active plan being discussed currently. This is the first greater Dublin public transport initiative that has been given serious attention, pretty much ever!
    The first phases are being put into place as I type.
    https://busconnects.ie/media/1365/phases-map-final.pdf
    metricspaces wrote: »
    Looked at is not trying or doing. My point stands, that they are solutions that will have immediate impact in short to medium term whereas public transport is not.
    Pubic transport is the only solution. The car, as much as I love them, is not a solution for the majority of the population: that's the reality.
    metricspaces wrote: »
    What are the statistics for destination of traffic on the M50. Certainly all traffic is not going into the city. Is it even 50%? What is "loads of people"?
    Ok, I should have said "loads of people want to travel throughout the city at the same time and want everyone else to change". It doesn't matter - the central tenet of my point is the same.
    People have been resisting change and won't change unless they are forced to. To think that the car is a sustainable option is not correct and I'm not sure how you think it could be.


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    #126
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,037 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    No idea what improvements can be made but the powers that be don't even have a proposal or intention to sort out this problem which can only get worse.
    It's like the health or housing problems, no plan, no proposal. Even if they came out and said it would cost 10 billion and take 10 years to solve at least that would be a start.

    I’ll give ya some ideas, bus connects, metrolink, banning cars from the city centre, dart underground, metro sw/ne (otherwise known as metro2).Incentivize cycling more.
    If people would stop objecting to public transport plans we might actually solve this gridlock.
    The answer is public transport, not bigger and better roads.


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    #127
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Hurrache wrote: »
    It's a hospital though, it's better suited to being on the periphery of the M50 rather than in the city.
    Why?
    ....... wrote: »
    I dont like cycling or public transport so I probably would drive.

    My ideal would be to work within walking distance because then I could run it or walk it.

    I did cycle or walk for years to work.

    But when youre looking at a distance of 20k+, and when I consider how I live (ie, gym, shopping etc during working hours) - then driving is the only real option for me.
    ...and your choice to drive should be fine. But you should not have greater priority (or investment or road space) over a bus carrying 50 people, or a bicycle with zero emissions, etc.
    ....... wrote: »
    Id possibly do it on a train with showers available in work. And a 10 minute walk.

    I wouldnt do it with a bike for 20k+.
    20km is not far on a bike, especially a decent road bike. The Cycle To Work scheme makes these relatively cheap.
    As for showers, etc - there's a business opportunity for someone - shower facilities and fresh towels for say €1.50 per day.


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    #128
    metricspaces
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭metricspaces


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    BusConnects is an active plan being discussed currently. This is the first greater Dublin public transport initiative that has been given serious attention, pretty much ever!
    The first phases are being put into place as I type.
    https://busconnects.ie/media/1365/phases-map-final.pdf

    A re-org of the same buses you think is going to make a significant difference?

    What increase in capital investment is happening with this re-org? How much more capacity?

    How does this cater for commuters who go around the city and not into the city? Which I would imagine account for a large amount of traffic on the m50.
    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Pubic transport is the only solution. The car, as much as I love them, is not a solution for the majority of the population: that's the reality.

    Well it's not the only solution. I outlined plenty other solutions that would reduce grid lock on M50. But if you want to believe it is the only solution simply because you say it is, then all the power to you.
    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Ok, I should have said "loads of people want to travel throughout the city at the same time and want everyone else to change". It doesn't matter - the central tenet of my point is the same.

    It very much matters. Your assumption is that grid lock on the m50 is due to people going into the city. Please provide evidence to back this up, otherwise it is just another instance of your opinion.


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    #129
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,037 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    ....... wrote: »
    I dont like cycling or public transport so I probably would drive.

    My ideal would be to work within walking distance because then I could run it or walk it.

    I did cycle or walk for years to work.

    But when youre looking at a distance of 20k+, and when I consider how I live (ie, gym, shopping etc during working hours) - then driving is the only real option for me.

    Congratulations. You are the reason this city is in constant gridlock.


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    #130
    n!ghtmancometh
    Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭n!ghtmancometh


    metricspaces wrote: »
    A re-org of the same buses you think is going to make a significant difference?

    What increase in capital investment is happening with this re-org? How much more capacity?



    Well it's not the only solution. I outlined plenty other solutions that would reduce grid lock on M50. But if you want to believe it is the only solution simply because you say it is, then all the power to you.



    It very much matters. Your assumption is that grid lock on the m50 is due to people going into the city. Please provide evidence to back this up, otherwise it is just another instance of your opinion.

    Complaining about traffic and you're sitting in a car in it then you are complaining about yourself. Cars are a ridiculous waste of scarce road space, if more roads are built or another M50 on top of the M50 it will be at capacity in a few years time, just like the expensive upgrade currently is.

    Investing in public transport, ie giving busses complete priority over cars and banning street parking and quite possibly introducing a congestion charge is the only way things will improve. If you are too lazy to get on improved public transport then you should be hit where it hurts, the pocket. The entitlement from motorists is astounding to me.


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    #131
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    metricspaces wrote: »
    A re-org of the same buses you think is going to make a significant difference?

    What increase in capital investment is happening with this re-org? How much more capacity?

    I don't have details on then committed investment. There are loads of facts up on the BC website.
    it's not jsut about increases in bus numbers or bus lanes. We also need stronger garda enforcement of bus lanes, etc.
    It is the best plan available! As I understand it, it is the only plan being considered by experts in the field.
    metricspaces wrote: »
    Well it's not the only solution. I outlined plenty other solutions that would reduce grid lock on M50. But if you want to believe it is the only solution simply because you say it is, then all the power to you.
    You didn't suggest a sustainable plan, did you? My understanding was that you threw out a few ideas which IMO would have sweet FA impact on the M50!
    metricspaces wrote: »
    It very much matters. Your assumption is that grid lock on the m50 is due to people going into the city. Please provide evidence to back this up, otherwise it is just another instance of your opinion.
    Oh ffs! People use the M50 to commute to different parts of the city and beyond. What exactly is your point. The majority of these trips shoudl be done via public transport?
    Secondly, yes, it is my opiniopn. Just like the rest of this thread being full of opinion.
    Your suggestions of "Office hub buildings. Working from home. Staggering starting times for schools and work places. Reducing tolls at say 5am and gradually increasing fee to say 9am. These are things which will have an immediate effect." is also based on your opinion; one I largely disagree with and have explained why.


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    #132
    metricspaces
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭metricspaces


    n!ghtmancometh wrote: »
    Complaining about traffic and you're sitting in a car in it then you are complaining about yourself. Cars are a ridiculous waste of scarce road space, if more roads are built or another M50 on top of the M50 it will be at capacity in a few years time, just like the expensive upgrade currently is.

    Investing in public transport, ie giving busses complete priority over cars and banning street parking and quite possibly introducing a congestion charge is the only way things will improve. If you are too lazy to get on improved public transport then you should be hit where it hurts, the pocket. The entitlement from motorists is astounding to me.

    In your anger you seem to have misread my post, or possibly you can point me towards where I am complaining about traffic.

    But yes, you are right. Public transport is the only option and this will solve our grid lock on the m50 (hint: the title of this thread?) in the short to medium term.


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    #133
    incentsitive
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭incentsitive


    If I was using the M50 every day I would be (assuming cycling and public transport are not options) looking to
    1. Find somebody to carpool with, at least if you can read a book a couple of days it might be easier.
    2. Making sure I was only doing it 2-3 days max per week
    3. Quitting and taking less money elsewhere.


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    #134
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    metricspaces wrote: »
    Why do you think public transport will change sufficiently in the short to medium term compared to previous 5, 10, 15 years such that it will allow people leave their cars at home?

    Public finances would suggest it will not...




    Looked at is not trying or doing. My point stands, that they are solutions that will have immediate impact in short to medium term whereas public transport is not.

    What are the statistics for destination of traffic on the M50. Certainly all traffic is not going into the city. Is it even 50%? What is "loads of people"?

    metricspaces wrote: »
    In your anger you seem to have misread my post, or possibly you can point me towards where I am complaining about traffic.

    But yes, you are right. Public transport is the only option and this will solve our grid lock on the m50 (hint: the title of this thread?) in the short to medium term.

    You've just contradicted yourself :confused:


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    #135
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,271 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Tchaikovsky wrote: »
    There needs to be at least some education on how to drive on a motorway; the standard is appalling and is reflected in the number of collisions/incidents that compound the traffic build-ups.

    Even notices on those LED boards saying 'Drive in the left lane, overtake in the middle, there's no such thing as a BMW lane' would be a start.

    meh

    that'll do nothing for stationary traffic on the M50 - that's just a general whinge


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    #136
    metricspaces
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭metricspaces


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    I don't have details on then committed investment. There are loads of facts up on the BC website.

    Ok, so just your opinion, again.
    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    it's not jsut about increases in bus numbers or bus lanes. We also need stronger garda enforcement of bus lanes, etc.

    Which bus lanes are you talking about on the m50? Correct me if I am wrong here, but this thread is about grid lock on m50??

    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    You didn't suggest a sustainable plan, did you? My understanding was that you threw out a few ideas which IMO would have sweet FA impact on the M50!

    Of course, if you say they would have no impact it must be true. It is pretty obvious however if you stagger traffic coming onto the m50 you reduce congestion.


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    #137
    incentsitive
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭incentsitive


    lawred2 wrote: »
    meh

    that'll do nothing for stationary traffic on the M50 - that's just a general whinge

    Exactly, M50 problem is there is just too many cars on it. Same as all the motorways. But until we service the business parks around the M50 with public transport, its just going to get worse.


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    #138
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    metricspaces wrote: »
    Ok, so just your opinion, again.

    Which bus lanes are you talking about on the m50? Correct me if I am wrong here, but this thread is about grid lock on m50??

    Of course, if you say they would have no impact it must be true. It is pretty obvious however if you stagger traffic coming onto the m50 you reduce congestion.
    :rolleyes:


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    #139
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,037 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    The best way to deal with the gridlock on the m50 is to remove it by forcing people onto public transport. That’s right, I said force.


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    #140
    monkeybutter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,407 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Why?


    ...and your choice to drive should be fine. But you should not have greater priority (or investment or road space) over a bus carrying 50 people, or a bicycle with zero emissions, etc.


    20km is not far on a bike, especially a decent road bike. The Cycle To Work scheme makes these relatively cheap.
    As for showers, etc - there's a business opportunity for someone - shower facilities and fresh towels for say €1.50 per day.

    will you be building these shower facilities at my work then for 1.50 per day?


    40k is a bit much for most people, do it myself, 23k each way, 20 years man and boy, lets say last monday morning wasn't heaving with cyclists

    it's the people in the 1k to 10k range that should be thinking about cycling more

    even 2-3 days a week

    the ones doing a to b inside the m50

    if people think the m50 is bad, try town, everyday nightmare really

    more PT isn't the answer, the pot is already full, it needs to be set free, it's choked at the moment

    and a cross city route is needed, a proper one, either train or bus, probably bus


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    #141
    incentsitive
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭incentsitive


    You'd be safer cycling along the hard shoulder of the M50 than using any road around it at peak hour :D


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    #142
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    tom1ie wrote: »
    The best way to deal with the gridlock on the m50 is to remove it by forcing people onto public transport. That’s right, I said force.

    The available public transport would not be able to facilitate the volumes driving on the M50 no matter how much force is used.


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    #143
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,037 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    monkeybutter wrote: »
    will you be building these shower facilities at my work then for 1.50 per day?


    40k is a bit much for most people, do it myself, 23k each way, 20 years man and boy, lets say last monday morning wasn't heaving with cyclists

    it's the people in the 1k to 10k range that should be thinking about cycling more

    even 2-3 days a week

    the ones doing a to b inside the m50

    if people think the m50 is bad, try town, everyday nightmare really

    more PT isn't the answer, the pot is already full, it needs to be set free, it's choked at the moment

    and a cross city route is needed, a proper one, either train or bus, probably bus

    You see there’s this thing called an underground train system, a metro I believe they call it, has no interaction with those on the surface so its great for getting people from a to b ya see. :rolleyes:

    If people stopped objecting to it and people actually put pressure on the government we’d have metro north built already.


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    #144
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,037 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Tell me how wrote: »
    The available public transport would not be able to facilitate the volumes driving on the M50 no matter how much force is used.

    Removing the very thing (cars) that are stopping pt (busses in this case) from being efficient would greatly improve commuting for everyone.
    Building metrolink, bus connects and dart underground will greatly benefit everyone, but we have not got the political will to do this, as individually we are chained to our cars.


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    #145
    monkeybutter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,407 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    tom1ie wrote: »
    You see there’s this thing called an underground train system, a metro I believe they call it, has no interaction with those on the surface so its great for getting people from a to b ya see. :rolleyes:


    the only subway that you can afford now has meatballs and cheese on it


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    #146
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Removing the very thing (cars) that are stopping pt (busses in this case) from being efficient would greatly improve commuting for everyone.
    Building metrolink, bus connects and dart underground will greatly benefit everyone, but we have not got the political will to do this, as individually we are chained to our cars.

    Some of these are needed and ultimately will be provided for but I would rather see promotion of businesses outside Dublin region to lessen traffic demands on the M50.

    I think the benefits to the country would be greater (for reasons more than just traffic) in the long run.


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    #147
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,668 ✭✭✭whippet


    i've been a slave to the M50 for the last 18 years and have seen it at it best and worst.

    Our offices are out the south west of the city off the m50 and in the last two years it has become impossible to have any sense of work life balance when having to commute.

    It takes me 30min driving to get to the M1/M50 from home and then it's a total lottery as to how long it will take me to get across to ballymount.

    at the start of the this year our employer realised that the M50 would eventually lead to staff turnover and staff spending two hours in the car before evening thinking about doing some work. So they invested in the technology and processes to allow about 70% of the staff to work remotely -

    it has been a game changer - I go to the office once a week and that is usually mid morning after the worst of the traffic - productivity is up massively across the board and in this jobs market most of us would need a serious offer to even consider a different job.

    Ultimately we have taken at least 20 cars of the M50 each morning and afternoon ... there is no infrastructure solution to the M50 - the government must look to working with employers to encourage and enable remote working / flexible working patterns for jobs where it can work


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    #148
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    tom1ie wrote: »
    I’ll give ya some ideas, bus connects, metrolink, banning cars from the city centre, dart underground, metro sw/ne (otherwise known as metro2).Incentivize cycling more.
    If people would stop objecting to public transport plans we might actually solve this gridlock.
    The answer is public transport, not bigger and better roads.

    Great ideas, but of course when the government come back and say this will cost billions and we need to increase taxes by 1% all the usual gobshytes will take to the street protesting led by the likes of ruth coppinger and paul murphy. FFS they don't even want to pay for a proper water system never mind a transport system!


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    #149
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    tom1ie wrote: »
    The best way to deal with the gridlock on the m50 is to remove it by forcing people onto public transport. That’s right, I said force.


    What, with like guns and stuff?


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    #150
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,271 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    I'll say again, we could do a lot without loads of new infrastructure, but more bus lanes, massive increase in buses, park and rides. If it means downgrades from motorways back to national primary on the M1, M11, M50, M4, M7 etc. so be it. People may prefer rail, but with adequate buses then congestion charging does come into play as there are options to force people to use.

    I don't see a reason why obital buses on the M50 couldn't work, with park and rides, direct routes only stopping at the business parks on M50 from the likes of Maynooth or Naas. The biggest issue at the moment is the congested motorway! On the N/M11 corridor such a route to meet up with Luas as well as Sandyford, Ballymount etc., could serve a dual purpose.


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    #151
    metricspaces
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭metricspaces


    whippet wrote: »
    at the start of the this year our employer realised that the M50 would eventually lead to staff turnover and staff spending two hours in the car before evening thinking about doing some work. So they invested in the technology and processes to allow about 70% of the staff to work remotely -

    it has been a game changer - I go to the office once a week and that is usually mid morning after the worst of the traffic - productivity is up massively across the board and in this jobs market most of us would need a serious offer to even consider a different job.

    Ah here. Come on now. You have to be telling lies. Sure a few posts back we were told that public transport is the only way to reduce grid lock on the M50.


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