Home heating automation

With the S plan and 2 zone valves you won't have a situation that requires an open radiator, that's really only an issue if you had a boiler stove which has unregulated supply of heat.

If you place the HW zone valve directly on the flow of the cylinder coil, then even when HW zone valve is closed, the bathroom radiator is connected to flow, so any boiler call for CH will heat this rad. You can put a smart TRV on it also, it will call the boiler via opening of the CH zone valve. though it is located in 'front' of the CH valve, this won't matter. If there is no CH activity, all radiators behind the CH valve won't heat, even those which don't have smart TRV's, so you don't need full implementation of smart TRVs to ensure no heating radiators during a HW only call, say in the summer. By having a smart TRV on the bathroom rad, this will ensure it also doesn't heat during a HW only call.

I agree on the stove issue, and fitting a TRV valve body to every radiator is worth the effort even if you only fit smart TRVs on a selection of them. If you locate the wall stat in the hall, you generally wouldn't put a smart TRV on the hall rad(s) as the stat will need to heat them to close the loop. If you do place TRVs on the rads in the wall stat location, you assign this stat as the temperature measuring device for these rads, not their own smart TRV's sensor.Thus these TRVs act only as motorised valve. You will be able to cap temperature with mechanical TRV heads on the other rads, i.e., they'll heat for any smart TRV boiler call. but limited to the setting of their mechanical TRV head.

You'll have to make that call on brand, cost and versatility yourself. You can see my opinions on TRV quality and point of purchase in my previous answer to @dropzone. The availability of additional devices such as smart plugs, and boosters may be an issue. I have no issues with Tado TRVs either end of a 2200 sq ft bungalow with all block internal walls, Tado support are particularly good at remote analysis and tweaking of connected devices. The Tado bridge is ethernet cable connected, and can be situated away from the router to optimise the coverage.

Last question first, PV heating of HW is done via the immersion, so once it heats the cylinder to target temperature, the cylinder stat which would be fitted in a zoned system with a HW zone, would open and prevent any call for heat during a HW timed event, from whatever system you have, wiser, Tado etc.

If this is a newly plumbed house, the cost of fitting trv valve bodies instead of twist valves is trivial, but if you already have the twist valves on, a plumber would swap out a houseful in a day. Trv valve bodies only maybe €5-6 trade, labour the biggest cost.

With zone valves, it depends on if the single zone plumbing is already in. It may not be easy to get a clean split on the pipe circuits into say, bedrooms and reception rooms. If you go full smart TRV, it doesn't matter. There's no penalty in closing the flow at the rads, but not at the flow inlet.

You don't mention HW, if you have a cylinder or direct HW, and if a cylinder, is it's coil on a seperate circuit before the CH branches, or is it on the same circuit tapped somewhere in the middle, as can happen in very old or homebrew installs.

Okay great, thanks deezell. I think I was on the same line of thought as you re PV so that's reassuring.

No, house is 100+ years old but with contemporary extension and upgrades etc

If I recall it's straight forward oil burner with one back boiler stove (gravity fed I guess, I'm not a plumber!) with I think 15 rads overall.

I'll def get the trv vales fitted, take the hit on the labour. I'm handy enough but when it comes to plumbing I tend to opt out.

The intent is to go full smart trvs so I'll not bother with zoning based on your recommendation.

Re the cylinder, I expect it's a two coil copper job so I'll prob get that replaced anyway for a more modern one.

Had a Joule 300ltr x3 coil in the old place (had oil, stove and solar tubes for water as heat sources)

Forgive any mistakes above, I'm a layman!)

Yet to move in so I'm just doing some groundwork.

As always, thanks Deezell, you make the forum tbh

Phew. This thread getting busy all of a sudden.

WINTER IS COMING

If It looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck.... it's a, Wiser. Its made by Schneider. While wiser uses Zigbee, "All the Wiser TRVs and the Room Stat uses a manufacturer specific Zigbee cluster with proprietary communication" according to this discussion. https://community.home-assistant.io/t/drayton-wiser-home-assistant-integration/80965/980?page=49

At that amazon.de price its worth a punt I suppose, I'm not even familiar with how it's set up as a sensor and paired to a particular receiver for firing of the boiler, but I presume thats all taken care of in the wiser app. I see they sell it on the site in a bundle with a TRV and a receiver relay, but a different small black one that's also described as an electric window blind actuator. I can see the appeal of using wiser parts in the Home Assistant integration setups that the guys in that blog enthuse about, but I'm loath to go down the rabbit hole much as it tempts me. I'll stick with changing The TV channel/volume with Google Home on my phone because the remote is over on her chair and I'd have to move to get it.

If you have two plumbed CH zones, seperated by motorised valves, then ir would be a shame not to have two thermostats to control them. The wireless kits are great value at the moment. If you have an existing wired thermostat back to the boiler, that can be used for a wired smart stat such as Tado. This can be used to switch both zones, nit you can get an additional wireless stat, receiver and Internet bridge for little over €100, so that kit, plus and extra add on wired stat will give you a 2 CH and HW smart system. You said though you're getting a combi boiler, which delivers HW direct to the taps on demand, so you won't have a HW cylinder or need a HW zone. You should clarify that with your plumber doing the upgrade

Bit of a review as I stumbled across this thread. I went with Drayton Wiser a few years ago. All the rads with smart thermostat(apart from bathrooms).

Do they work? yes has to be the answer. App is really easy to set up but I did try having multiple setup's for different rooms and it got a bit messy but probably because I didn't spend enough time setting it up

I did find I had to buy a couple of plugs to get a decent signal around the house but I live in a bungalow. After that it really has been setup and forget. You do need. decent supply of batteries. They don't recommend reuseable ones and when I tried they would run down very quickly. The standard ones probably get changed twice a year in the TRV's. Once for the ones not really used to turn up/down heating

Post a pic of the wall stat and eph. If you can, remove stat cover get a pic of the wiring. Pop the EPF off and get a pic of its backplate wiring also.

I had a few issues with one of the tado stats dropping the WiFi connection as it was in the opposite side of the house to the router.

I resolved the issue by placing a WiFi repeater in the middle of the house and plugging the internet bridge into that.

That kit plus this

First kit has a two zone receiver, controls one CH + HW, and it has the Internet hub.

Second Kit has a one zone receiver for the second CH connection. Both use the same hub in the first kit.

Really good value.

Yes, if you have a need for HW timing. if you're getting a combi boiler, that heats HW directly to the taps without a cylinder. In that case you wouldn't need the HW relay. You'd still need a two stats though, two wired (one part of a wired starter kit with internet bridge), or one wired and one wireless, which is the original advice with the HW zone relay on the wireless receiver.

On a side note, when you buy the Tado wireless kit, I'm not certain if the wall stat supplied has no wired terminals, so you have to use it via the extension kit. In the past the stat always had wiring terminals even if supllied with the wireless starter kit, but I'm sure I recall reading somewhere that the stat now supplied in the wireless kit doesn't have wiring contacts. This makes sense for cost reasons if it's the case.

Hive and Drayton have no wiring terminals, they're wireless only, the less popular Netatmo smart Stat came in wired or wireless, with the wireless one stripped of wiring terminals.

Lads

I have inherited a heating system partly unfinished . I have bought some Tado smart TRVs and their Tado V3+ Wireless Heating & Hot Water Smart Thermostat Starter Kit on SF as recommended here by Deezell, much appreciated.

Going to replace non smart trvs on all rads with smart trvs so I can setup each room rad with necessary times/ days needed.

In the hotpress the CH has been fitted with 2x MV for upstairs/ downstairs zones and HW pipe to the cylinder has a MV but no cylinder stat fitted. All MV are the black & yellow EPH but none are wired up to a wiring centre. The house also has no wall room stats upstairs/ downstairs. Boiler is being controlled by a 1CH EPH 5+2 timer.

With all of the above in mind I presume the plan was to fit a new 3CH EPH controller, run multicore cable from the boiler/ EPH up to a wiring center in the HP. Install wall stats

As I plan to fit all rads with smart Trvs is there any benefit to completing the hardwire setup that was stated? Or better just to fit a cylinder stat controlled by necessary Tado kit.

Out of curiosity if I was going the finishing wired setup route where do people normally place their wall stats to make the most benefit.

Also what multi core cable do I need.

Thanks

need experts advice please..

i bought few Drayton smart TRVs.

installed couple of them fine.

one of them is giving hard time.

all rads are same. so im following same installation step.

it was hard to screw in the smart TRV to rad. not sure if the valve open close pin is contact with the TRV.

TRV is connected and showing temp but it is not opening the valve and the rad is not heating up.

if i put the old TRV it works fine. so its just me connecting the TRV to rad. any tips on installation please

can you see the Smart TRV physically activating when it's off the valve?

Hi again @deezell ,

Probably a stupid question, but here goes! Our current system has 3 zones; 2 for central heating & 1 for hot water. Would the Drayton system you suggested allow us to control the hot water settings , as well as the 2 heating zones?

I just want to make sure it’s the best option before we take the plunge! Thank you.

Thanks @deezell , yes we have wall stats upstairs & downstairs to monitor heating. There’s a separate stat for our hot water tank & then we have the controller in our utility room.

Attaching photo of the controller in our utility room in case that helps to clear up any confusion. I’m so sorry to sound so vague!

yes, when its taken out of rad, it shows the colors. connected to app

Thanks so much for your invaluable help, @deezell

1. Both versions of TRV do the same job, send temperature, receive a instructions to open and close the valve. They're both 'smart,', insofar as the heating algorithms are not running in the TRVs' hardware, but in the main stat, aided by server. So the difference is aesthetic and build, the original TRV is a premium product, the eco model, is, well, the economy version, no digital display, no alloy wheels. €219 for 4 is great price.

2. You can't instruct another brand to fire the boiler, they'd just act as manual temperature limiters, albeit you could program those limits from their own app. You'd need their own hub to access them, unless they were Bluetooth, or Wifi, (much higher battery consumption).

3. Apropos 2, the Tado stats fire the boiler via the zone thermostat to which they are assigned. If you have two Tado stats, say upstairs/downstairs, the bedroom TRVs are assigned to the upstairs stat, which will fire the boiler after it opens the upstairs zone valve. If the upstairs stat itself is off, say on the landing and temperature is satisfied, it will still close the relay for a TRV call. For sure any rads in the upstairs zone that don't have TRVs will heat for this call, but if the radiators in the same area as the stat (landing or master bedroom say) also have smart TRVs, they will remain closed. These colocated TRVs should additionally assign the main stat as the temperature measuring device, so there aren't two thermostats competing to control temperature in a single area.