Home heating automation

deezell

salnado wrote: »

From Live L of the Tado correct?



That's input L of the Tado,correct? Am I right that in all this the EPH can be removed?



This question is irrelevant if the EPH can be removed. If not then If CH2 is still going to input L of the EPH, do I need a feed to the Tado L and N?
Do i just loop off the EPH to do that?

Yes, remove the EPH, replace with the Tado. Lift off the EPH, there's just one small screw at the bottom holding it to its baseplate.Check the wiring coming in and out. L, N, and there should be no more than three live outs to the wall/cylinder stats, and then on to the valves, which in turn collectively though their built in relays will fire the boiler when any of them open. The ext kit will replace the EPH locally for timing of HW and CH1. CH2 is first wired in the tado to L, which is always on, but then replacing CH2 stat with a wired tado stat controls the live to the CH2 valve. The timing as well as the temperature control all take placs inside the Tado stat. This is the key difference. Traditional system has a timer controller, with these timed lives then sent to a wall stat or cylinder stat for temperature control. This is combined in the Tado stats, whither wired in, or wireless via the ext kit. Only the HW retains its mechanical stat, with the ext kit supplying the HW timed live

salnado

deezell wrote: »

Yes, remove the EPH, replace with the Tado. Lift off the EPH, there's just one small screw at the bottom holding it to its baseplate.Check the wiring coming in and out. L, N, and there should be no more than three live outs to the wall/cylinder stats, and then on to the valves, which in turn collectively though their built in relays will fire the boiler when any of them open. The ext kit will replace the EPH locally for timing of HW and CH1. CH2 is first wired in the tado to L, which is always on, but then replacing CH2 stat with a wired tado stat controls the live to the CH2 valve. The timing as well as the temperature control all take placs inside the Tado stat. This is the key difference. Traditional system has a timer controller, with these timed lives then sent to a wall stat or cylinder stat for temperature control. This is combined in the Tado stats, whither wired in, or wireless via the ext kit. Only the HW retains its mechanical stat, with the ext kit supplying the HW timed live

Thank you, that's fantastic, I understand the approach now. I will wire it up as you describe and let you know how I get on.

DeadSkin

I have EPH 2 Zone RF Programmer and would like to make use of the EPH app to control my heating.

From the EPH website I need a gateway and a couple of thermostats (one upstairs and one downstairs).

You can purchase complete kits (that include the controller I already have), but I cannot find any where else online to purchase thermostats separately. I found the gateway on Screwfix (for 100 Euro).

Any one come across EPH thermostats separately online?

Thanks!

deezell

DeadSkin wrote: »

I have EPH 2 Zone RF Programmer and would like to make use of the EPH app to control my heating.

From the EPH website I need a gateway and a couple of thermostats (one upstairs and one downstairs).

You can purchase complete kits (that include the controller I already have), but I cannot find any where else online to purchase thermostats separately. I found the gateway on Screwfix (for 100 Euro).

Any one come across EPH thermostats separately online?

Thanks!

https://www.eurosales.ie/products/eph-wireless-room-thermostat-rfr.html

digiman

I managed to get the Honeywell Evohome setup to control my hot water, upstairs and downstairs myself. Very happy with it so far, 2 issues left to fix though. I need to replace the existing radiator valves so that they will be able to take the fitting for the Honeywell Thermostats. Is this a job that one could do himself, I ain't no plumber, have just watched a few youtube videos where guys have frooze the incoming water supply and seal off the flow in the other direction for long enough to swap the valve.

Have a very stupid question coming up, I've an unvented hot water tank so I need to use the insertion sensor. I'm not clear though where exactly that is supposed to go though and how do I get it inside the watertank. Do I need some other parts, obviously wondering how does one get this into the tank without flooding the house!

deezell

digiman wrote: »

I managed to get the Honeywell Evohome setup to control my hot water, upstairs and downstairs myself. Very happy with it so far, 2 issues left to fix though. I need to replace the existing radiator valves so that they will be able to take the fitting for the Honeywell Thermostats. Is this a job that one could do himself, I ain't no plumber, have just watched a few youtube videos where guys have frooze the incoming water supply and seal off the flow in the other direction for long enough to swap the valve.

Have a very stupid question coming up, I've an unvented hot water tank so I need to use the insertion sensor. I'm not clear though where exactly that is supposed to go though and how do I get it inside the watertank. Do I need some other parts, obviously wondering how does one get this into the tank without flooding the house!

Stopping the flow is the easiest part. Better to just cut the head tank supply and drain. Close off all other rads at both ends to reduce drain time and venting afterwards. The freezing trick would work provided you don't end up with a stuck spigot or a riser mismatch that has you scurrying to get parts or tools or help, while your frozen plug thaws out. I suppose if you freeze the riser you only need to catch the radiator water. You might need to change the spigot into the rad as TRV type valves all seem to use compression type spigots, whereas older radiator screw valves used a 3/4" flush coupler, the type which allowed easy removal of a radiator. The spigot into the rad of these type often requires a large hex allen key inside the spigot to remove, with a lot of force and a hail mary. Another problem is that the compression nut of the riser pipe may not have the same thread or depth as the nut on the new TRV valve, so you have to remove the old nut and ring, the latter will be compressed into the riser pipe.

Your cylinder will have little hollow tubes already fitted in it in which to insert the stat.

digiman

deezell wrote: »

Your cylinder will have little hollow tubes already fitted in it in which to insert the stat.

My tank seems to be this one, I've no idea though were you mean there are little hollow tubes were you can fit the insertion stat.

deezell

digiman wrote: »

My tank seems to be this one, I've no idea though were you mean there are little hollow tubes were you can fit the insertion stat.

The Aquastat pocket.

antomack

Just installed a Drayton Wiser 3 channel Hub R and while everything is working fine for the most part I have 3 small issue and was wondering if other Drayton users have similar experiences.

1) I am noticing a distinct pulsing hum when the heating turns on from the hub itself, the same hum doesn't occur for the Hot Water. When I first heard it I thought it sounded like water flowing.

Anyone else with Drayton Wiser notice anything similar or have any idea if it's something to worry about?

I have seen some posts on automatedhome.co.uk with others having a similar issue but nothing pointing to it being anything more than an annoyance.

2) The Hub R seems to intermittently lose connection to the router and in some cases comes back after a few minutes in other cases I've had to power it off and on before it reconnects.

3) I've found that the app keeps kicking out while I was setting up the schedules on the two zones and the hot water, probably closed 10/12 times over 20 minutes of working through the changes.

John mac

i instaled mine last weekend , no hum from the control box , the tvr's do make quite a bit of noise though ,
connection has been rock solid ,
box is about 8 M and 1 solid wall away from router ,
took me a while to figure out i had to be on the same wireless as the router to get it set up . ( i was on 5ghz ,)
once i changed to 2.4 it was easy.

Alkers

John mac wrote: »

i instaled mine last weekend , no hum from the control box , the tvr's do make quite a bit of noise though ,
connection has been rock solid ,
box is about 8 M and 1 solid wall away from router ,
took me a while to figure out i had to be on the same wireless as the router to get it set up . ( i was on 5ghz ,)
once i changed to 2.4 it was easy.

Ditto, no noise form the hub but it does click on sometimes . App very stable too

salnado

deezell wrote: »

Yes, remove the EPH, replace with the Tado. Lift off the EPH, there's just one small screw at the bottom holding it to its baseplate.Check the wiring coming in and out. L, N, and there should be no more than three live outs to the wall/cylinder stats, and then on to the valves, which in turn collectively though their built in relays will fire the boiler when any of them open. The ext kit will replace the EPH locally for timing of HW and CH1. CH2 is first wired in the tado to L, which is always on, but then replacing CH2 stat with a wired tado stat controls the live to the CH2 valve. The timing as well as the temperature control all take placs inside the Tado stat. This is the key difference. Traditional system has a timer controller, with these timed lives then sent to a wall stat or cylinder stat for temperature control. This is combined in the Tado stats, whither wired in, or wireless via the ext kit. Only the HW retains its mechanical stat, with the ext kit supplying the HW timed live

That worked perfectly. Everything seems to be working as it should. Thank you for the help, it was invaluable.

I have one final question. I also bought two Tado TRVs. I installed one on a radiator on the downstairs circuit (spare bedroom) and one on the upstairs circuit (in a different room to where the thermostat is). In the Tado app I have set each of those up as individual rooms. If I want them to successfully call for heat, even if the main thermostats on those circuits aren't, what do I need to do, I can't find any setting for that in the app?

deezell

salnado wrote: »

That worked perfectly. Everything seems to be working as it should. Thank you for the help, it was invaluable.

I have one final question. I also bought two Tado TRVs. I installed one on a radiator on the downstairs circuit (spare bedroom) and one on the upstairs circuit (in a different room to where the thermostat is). In the Tado app I have set each of those up as individual rooms. If I want them to successfully call for heat, even if the main thermostats on those circuits aren't, what do I need to do, I can't find any setting for that in the app?

You need to associate the stat relay for the zone the TRV is in to the TRV room.
On the App,
Settings/Rooms and Devices/{TRV Room Name}/Zone Controller.
On this page, choose the stat/device which calls the correct zone for that TRV. You should have a choice of two stats, or possibly one stat and the ext kit, there have been some logical changes to this since I last looked.


Remember, a single TRV will call the entire zone when it calls for heat, so its mostly used for colder rooms which 'fall behind' the main zone stat setting, or to turn off unused rooms during a general zone call.

salnado

deezell wrote: »

You need to associate the stat relay for the zone the TRV is in to the TRV room.
On the App,
Settings/Rooms and Devices/{TRV Room Name}/Zone Controller.
On this page, choose the stat/device which calls the correct zone for that TRV. You should have a choice of two stats, or possibly one stat and the ext kit, there have been some logical changes to this since I last looked.


Remember, a single TRV will call the entire zone when it calls for heat, so its mostly used for colder rooms which 'fall behind' the main zone stat setting, or to turn off unused rooms during a general zone call.

For some reason I can only see the Wireless receiver as an option as a zone controller, the smart thermostat for the upstairs circuit doesn't appear as an option. I have emailed Tado for help.

JohnDeereIE

deezell wrote: »

The ext kit has two relays, one for wireless connection of the Tado thermostat, and the other for controlling the timing of HW, so you get both in the one box. The Tado thermostat on its own has a built in relay, so it can be wired directly in place of an old thermostat, and you can continue to time your HW with the older controller. If you buy the extension kit later or as part of the starter kit with HW, you can use the wireless feature optionally, but in your case it will directly replace the old controller, wired in its place. The old CH stat can be removed and replaced by the new stat wired in, or wirelessly connected. The old HW stat remains in place, the Tado only controls timing of HW, not temperature.
Rad stats (TRVs) are not that expensive, €45-60 depending on special offers, but will require the fitting of a TRV type valve body on each rad if you don't already have manual TRVs on them.

House has TRV's already installed so should be direct swap.
What would you recommend in this situation? just go for the wired kit and let the old system control the hot water?
Or go all in now
Thanks again and sorry for all the questions :-)

I was recommended Tado, I guess they are the best available at the moment on market?

deezell

salnado wrote: »

For some reason I can only see the Wireless receiver as an option as a zone controller, the smart thermostat for the upstairs circuit doesn't appear as an option. I have emailed Tado for help.

There are some confusing posts in the Tado forum regarding this, on the one hand explaining assignment of TRVs to a zone stat relay, on the other hand saying you can't , saying zone switching is incompatible with TRVs. I think what they're trying to say is that TRVs should be on all rads, then zone valves are not required. Raise a support call with them. I'm certain that there are users who have TRVs switching different Tado stat relays to fire the boiler.
Here is the post in question,
https://community.tado.com/en-gb/discussion/4378/yet-another-3-channel-replacement-question

john_doe.

Hi

What batteries do people use in their TRVs?

On seperate note , drayton seem to be updating the app bit regularly these days. Small updates but good to see it

Bluefoam

john_doe. wrote: »

Hi

What batteries do people use in their TRVs?

On seperate note , drayton seem to be updating the app bit regularly these days. Small updates but good to see it

Not necessarily... Small updates sometimes mean a lack of quality control in the software development and small updates can be issued to override problems caused by the previous...

Allot of firms will collate all updates and release as one.

deezell

john_doe. wrote: »

Hi

What batteries do people use in their TRVs?

On seperate note , drayton seem to be updating the app bit regularly these days. Small updates but good to see it

Cheap multipacks from Eurogiant, Polaroid brand or other. Seriously, you can pay 5 times the price per battery for so called premium cells, with only fractional increases in lifespan.

john_doe.

deezell wrote: »

Cheap multipacks from Eurogiant, Polaroid brand or other. Seriously, you can pay 5 times the price per battery for so called premium cells, with only fractional increases in lifespan.

I've been using Amazon basic brand. Was also going to try eneloops rechargables I have - but drayton àdvise again that because of voltage involved in driving the motors.

The TRVs go down fast enough.

I have the eneloops n the thermostats and last good spell.

Happy enough now with drayton kit , have 10 trvs and 4 thermostats. U can add to kit easily when yearly sales come up with great discounts. Have a spare controller as was cheaper in sales to get controller with thermostats. So Disaster recovery covered.

I think the small updates they are bringing are improvements not bugs , their simple functions on app UI , but nice to see functions added.

It doesn't seem very popular over here , but it's nice bit of kit and has evolved well.

JohnDeereIE

theluke79 wrote: »

Hi everybody,
we're finally buying our first house

So I am looking at options to get as much automation as possible together with a good CH/HW system in place.

I currently have a NEST(in the house we are renting).

I plan to install a combi boiler for instant HW, combined with something like EvoHome to have zoning without needing to re run all pipes.

Do you know if EvoHome deals with combi boilers?

It has to be simple and maintenance free.

What heating system is already in place? With the cost of a new house if the heating system is working and in good condition I would be looking at insulation etc first if that is an issue

deezell

JohnDeereIE wrote: »

What heating system is already in place? With the cost of a new house if the heating system is working and in good condition I would be looking at insulation etc first if that is an issue

That post is from 2017 😁

john_doe.

Anyone know how to set schedules for a week with variation of working shift with wiser.?

My wife works different days each week and needs the bedroom warmed up days she comes home for a shower.

Was looking at IFTTT but not sure is there a way.

Like have a calendar set a schedule

JohnDeereIE

deezell wrote: »

That post is from 2017 😁

Opp's sorry new to this :-) not sure how I did that

deezell

JohnDeereIE wrote: »

Opp's sorry new to this :-) not sure how I did that

Sometimes the thread opens on the first page, hard to see if you're using a phone.

maxamillius

More an out of interest question...

I have a gravity HW pumped CH system with one thermostat for CH pump.

Pretty sure in my head I can wire this for Tado and install radiator valves to zone rooms etc.

My question is, I have a hot water cylinder and the water gets roasting in it, if I was to install a cylinder stat on it, how would this tie into the system? Presumably I would need a motorised valve somewhere? Which almost defeats the purpose of installing the rad valves?

JohnDeereIE

I had open a ticket ages ago with Tado before I found this page, got a response today. The advice was to leave Climote in place. Put in wired thermostat. Leave water to control from Climote. They said never to take out the Climote as they had no replacement.

Am I correct with one thermostat if I then use the radiator thermostat they can call the boiler to start? if a room goes below the temp. Thanks

deezell

maxamillius wrote: »

More an out of interest question...

I have a gravity HW pumped CH system with one thermostat for CH pump.

Pretty sure in my head I can wire this for Tado and install radiator valves to zone rooms etc.

My question is, I have a hot water cylinder and the water gets roasting in it, if I was to install a cylinder stat on it, how would this tie into the system? Presumably I would need a motorised valve somewhere? Which almost defeats the purpose of installing the rad valves?

With gravity HW, it always heats when the boiler is on, and will heat to the temperature of the boiler output. A stat on the cylinder is no use unless put in a motorised valve the only other option is to lower the temperature of the boiler flow, using the boilers own jacket stat. Depending on your boiler model, this may be analogue or digital. If you set this to 55-60°, then your HW will never exceed this temperature, as the boiler will cut and limit its flow temperature, but the risk is your radiators will not be able to heat up as quick or maintain room temperature if the flow temp is limited. Your boiler will be a bit nore efficient though if it cylcles for longer but at a lesser temperature. You may have it set to operate at up to 70°, and when CH is on it might never reach this if the boiler output is close to CH demand, but when its heating HW only, its going to reach max temperature very quickly and overheat your cylinder.

loyatemu

antomack wrote: »

Just installed a Drayton Wiser 3 channel Hub R and while everything is working fine for the most part I have 3 small issue and was wondering if other Drayton users have similar experiences.

1) I am noticing a distinct pulsing hum when the heating turns on from the hub itself, the same hum doesn't occur for the Hot Water. When I first heard it I thought it sounded like water flowing.

Anyone else with Drayton Wiser notice anything similar or have any idea if it's something to worry about?

I have seen some posts on automatedhome.co.uk with others having a similar issue but nothing pointing to it being anything more than an annoyance.

2) The Hub R seems to intermittently lose connection to the router and in some cases comes back after a few minutes in other cases I've had to power it off and on before it reconnects.

3) I've found that the app keeps kicking out while I was setting up the schedules on the two zones and the hot water, probably closed 10/12 times over 20 minutes of working through the changes.

I've noticed a hum from the HubR when the heating is on too - figured it was a relay.

salnado

deezell wrote: »

There are some confusing posts in the Tado forum regarding this, on the one hand explaining assignment of TRVs to a zone stat relay, on the other hand saying you can't , saying zone switching is incompatible with TRVs. I think what they're trying to say is that TRVs should be on all rads, then zone valves are not required. Raise a support call with them. I'm certain that there are users who have TRVs switching different Tado stat relays to fire the boiler.
Here is the post in question,
https://community.tado.com/en-gb/discussion/4378/yet-another-3-channel-replacement-question

Fully sorted now, thanks for all your help. Tado support changed the wired upstairs thermostat to also be a zone controller and I can assign the TRVs correctly.

Now just need to invest in more of the TRVs