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Told I have to leave apartment in 30 days - any recourse?

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    #62
    FakePie
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭FakePie


    I have received notice that a buyer has been determined, and that buyer is requesting vacancy of property.

    If that's the information I'm receiving - I have to question why I would expect to see the property of daft.ie or such?


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    #63
    surrender monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 230 ✭✭surrender monkey


    Sorry i didnt notice that in your op. If that is the case then it won't go up on websites. It will show up on the property price register and the transfer will be lodged in land registry at some stage after the sale assuming everything is above board of course. Either way you aren't entitled to see the contract for sale between the parties


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    #64
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    surrender monkey wrote: »
    Sorry i didnt notice that in your op. If that is the case then it won't go up on websites. It will show up on the property price register and the transfer will be lodged in land registry at some stage after the sale assuming everything is above board of course. Either way you aren't entitled to see the contract for sale between the parties

    Assuming a sale goes through without any hiccups - it's not unknown for a house sale to fall through because of issues with bank loans or other things that can happen to stop a sale. We had that years ago as the buyer got a job in the UK so we had to start again from scratch - took another 8/9 months to sell and finalise everything as the solicitors on both sides seemed to take ages. It could be faster now ;)

    If the sale didn't happen, the owner might put the property back on the rental market or they might not; they could lease it to the council for 10-20 years and the rental agent wouldn't be involved or know anything about it and it wouldn't be advertised on daft.


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    #65
    FakePie
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭FakePie


    That would appear to be the point of contention.

    Sales are exceptionally difficult to prove as being valid or no - so a signed affidavit doesn't really stand for a whole lot - in my eyes.
    In the courts eyes, it does - so my opinion is basically moot.


    So with that being said - I suppose what I'd want to determine from here - is has the apartment been re-let, after my eviction?

    Which I know it will be, cause I've had a viewer here, and the rental agent already told me said viewer moving into this town and looking to rent.

    Therefore - what can I, or the RTB do - as a means to, basically - prove this?

    Now - my neighbour shares a balcony with my apartment, and we're on friendly terms - so I could always just visit her, then snap a few pics through the window.

    What that will prove - I don't know.

    I could also access the mailbox, snap pictures of the mail etc - legality of that, I also don't know.

    Point is - there's bound to be documentation, in the hands of the rental agent, that the RTB can request?
    If they would indeed do that?
    As to the apartment being re-leased.


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    #66
    surrender monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 230 ✭✭surrender monkey


    You could always ask your neighbour to keep an eye out and when a new person moves in to let you know. They could draw them out and get the info off them


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    #67
    laotg
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭laotg


    If I were you OP I'd be looking for a new place to rent. Even if in a few months you somehow prove(highly unlikely) that the landlord falsified intention to sell just to get a new tenant with higher rent you won't be placed back in as tenant and the new tenant turfed out. Their rights will then be paramount to yours. Also, remember for a conviction to be secured the burden of proof will be 'beyond reasonable doubt'. Pretty unprovable really considering how many sales can fall through. And even if the landlord was convicted you wouldn't gain much, if any compensation.


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    #68
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    The legislation only requires that the landlord intends to enter a contract within 3 months. Intention is a state of mind. Tangible evidence can only be obtained indirectly. If a landlord states that he intends to sell and makes a statutory declaration to that effect, it is presumed he intends to sell. It would be very difficult to rebut that presumption. The RTB certainly won't go about trying to and it is unlikely any evidence of a contrary intention could be sourced by the tenant.
    American legal jargon will be no help to a tenant.


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    #69
    FakePie
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭FakePie


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    The legislation only requires that the landlord intends to enter a contract within 3 months. Intention is a state of mind. Tangible evidence can only be obtained indirectly. If a landlord states that he intends to sell and makes a statutory declaration to that effect, it is presumed he intends to sell. It would be very difficult to rebut that presumption.  The RTB certainly won't go about trying to and it is unlikely any evidence of a contrary intention could be sourced by the tenant.
    American legal jargon will be no help to a tenant.
    Excellent breakdown.

    In other words - similar to the information Threshold relaid to me, proving intention to sell as being invalid, normally goes unsuccessful.

    A further shift in perspective of that being - the Landlady in this instance has taken the correct steps to ensure the property is vacated of its current tenant, as a means to make room for her friend who wants to rent from under the current tenant - and there's basically very little the current tenant can do about it.

    As to what the poster above you mentioned - once a new tenant is put in place (which will be almost immediately as I understand it), their rights supersede my own?

    That's new to me as - I was of the understanding the obligation was to re-rent it to myself should sale of property not go through?


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    #70
    C3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭C3PO


    At this stage you would seem to have two choices OP - leave as requested by a valid notice to quit or refuse to leave and let your landlord use the courts to have you evicted. The latter course will undoubtedly buy you significant time but could make it very difficult to find anywhere else to rent when you are eventually evicted and could also be very stressful!


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    #71
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    I'm just curious but would the landlord go to all the trouble of getting a statutory declaration that they intended to sell if that was untrue?

    I can't see why he would do it if he is not selling.

    Surely it would be easier and less costly to continue with the current tenant?

    It seems like a lot of bother and expense to simply change a tenant - the landlord would have to get all the references and checks for a new tenant, pay the letting agent, pay the fee for the new registration with RTB, then the costs of repainting and repairs, maybe replace items of furniture, cleaning costs etc

    The landlord could also lose rental income for a period of time.


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    #72
    FakePie
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭FakePie


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    I'm just curious but would the landlord go to all the trouble of getting a statutory declaration that they intended to sell if that was untrue?

    I can't see why he would do it if he is not selling.

    Surely it would be easier and less costly to continue with the current tenant?

    It seems like a lot of bother and expense to simply change a tenant - the landlord would have to get all the references and checks for a new tenant, pay the letting agent, pay the fee for the new registration with RTB, then the costs of repainting and repairs, maybe replace items of furniture, cleaning costs etc

    The landlord could also lose rental income for a period of time.
    The rental agent already let slip it's a close personal friend of the Landlady that will be renting the property - thus there are no necessary references etc.
    The property owner has a number of properties with this rental agent - so I assume they're working to her favour.
    Also - from what I understand - the new tenant wishes to take the property from the 1st of next month - i.e. the immediate day after my eviction date as per the notice of termination - so there will be no rental time lost.

    The property was fully refurbished 11 months previously, painted etc - and I've kept it in pristine condition.

    The next tenant has been here to look, and was clearly very taken with the place - cause - I don't know if I mentioned, but it's a lovely apartment, top of a building overlooking the entire city, huge balcony, bay windows.
    Really can't get a nicer place, at a better price.

    In terms of the "trouble" - a signed piece of paper?
    As a favour for a close friend?


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    #73
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    FakePie wrote: »
    The rental agent already let slip it's a close personal friend of the Landlady that will be renting the property - thus there are no necessary references etc.
    The property owner has a number of properties with this rental agent - so I assume they're working to her favour.
    Also - from what I understand - the new tenant wishes to take the property from the 1st of next month - i.e. the immediate day after my eviction date as per the notice of termination - so there will be no rental time lost.

    The property was fully refurbished 11 months previously, painted etc - and I've kept it in pristine condition.

    The next tenant has been here to look, and was clearly very taken with the place - cause - I don't know if I mentioned, but it's a lovely apartment, top of a building overlooking the entire city, huge balcony, bay windows.
    Really can't get a nicer place, at a better price.

    In terms of the "trouble" - a signed piece of paper?
    As a favour for a close friend?
    If all that is true, you could open a dispute with the RTB and keep it going for a while. the close friend may find alternative accommodation and the urgency might abate.


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    #74
    FakePie
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭FakePie


    Keep it going for a while?

    What does that mean - appeal it?

    Does that prolong the dispute - if I lodge an appeal?

    They've told me that, typically - adjudication will last about 8 weeks.

    In other words, when you say, "keep it going" - to what exactly are you referring?


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    #75
    FakePie
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭FakePie


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    If all that is true, you could open a dispute with the RTB and keep it going for a while. the close friend may find alternative accommodation and the urgency might abate.
    In addition what I can tell you is - as mentioned, there's no other apartment I had yet viewed, that comes even CLOSE to being as nice as the one currently under dispute.

    And - the intended female tenant that visited here - my intuition has yet to fail me, and my gathering as to her disposition was, in essence - weapon of mass destruction.
    Mal-content - perpetually jaded.

    I suspect she'll stop at nothing provided she has the scope - to attain what she wants.

    Furthermore - the actual Landlady to the property - similar disposition.

    I guess now we know why they're friends.

    This may be interpreted as conjecture on my part - but, the reality in my experience is, it's the personalities involved that will ultimately dictate how such situations will play out.

    Now - do I have the level headedness to contend with whatever they throw at me - be it fabricated affidavits or otherwise?

    Unquestionably.

    But - what the "system" can offer me as grounds to stay - how the RTB view and respond to the case, how legal involvement (which I'm in the process of attaining), see's and responds to the case - is, what I see, as being the determining factor as to whose favour this situation will fall.

    That being said - if you or another enlightened member feels otherwise - I'm open to suggestion.


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    #76
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    FakePie wrote: »
    Keep it going for a while?

    What does that mean - appeal it?

    Does that prolong the dispute - if I lodge an appeal?

    They've told me that, typically - adjudication will last about 8 weeks.

    In other words, when you say, "keep it going" - to what exactly are you referring?

    I give up!


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    #77
    FakePie
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭FakePie


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    FakePie wrote: »
    Keep it going for a while?

    What does that mean - appeal it?

    Does that prolong the dispute - if I lodge an appeal?

    They've told me that, typically - adjudication will last about 8 weeks.

    In other words, when you say, "keep it going" - to what exactly are you referring?

    I give up!
    For a "4ensic" - that's a surprising lack of thoroughness.


    Now....


    What you got for me?


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