Told I have to leave apartment in 30 days - any recourse?

FakePie

Hi.

I have been renting an apartment for almost 1 year.
I attained it by submitting all relevant paperwork, references etc - got cleared - all good.

I am an exemplary tenant - rent always paid on time, keep the place ship shape, no loud music etc.

I attained the apartment through a rental agency, and this apartment in registered with the RTB.

My lease is up for renewal in about 3 weeks.
1 week ago, I received a phone call to the effect of the rental agent bringing in someone for a look at the apartment, cause they were thinking of renting a similar one in the block.

Today - I get a phone call saying, the landlord wants to rent the apartment to her friend (told friend, not clarified if a family member).
I assume this is the lady that came to look around, under their guise.

That I have until the end of next month to pack my things and go.

Rang the RTB - told they must serve valid written notice of 35 days, which I have not received.
Told, "renting to a friend" - is not valid.
Now, if it's a family member - it might be - but they could investigate that, should such a claim be made?
They said something to the effect of the apartment having been sold (or will be sold), I think 3 months ago.
They've obviously showed no compunction about lying to me so - I don't know what to believe.

My concern is - when a tenants lease is up for renewal - can the rental agent simply decide to not renew, and have the tenant move out??

The RTB seemed to suggest otherwise.... but I really don't know.

I am highly unfamiliar with these situations, as I have always stayed in shared accommodation until this year.

Do I have any recourse here?

alias no.9

Simple answer is yes. You have acquired part IV tenancy rights which limit the circumstances in which the landlord can terminate the tenancy, regardless of signing a new lease or not, this is not one of those scenarios and you have not received valid notice.


Do you have a direct relationship with the landlord or purely with the agent?

FakePie

Purely with the agent.

Was searching for my lease agreement to see if I had the Landlords name to hand but - must have mislaid it.

That's the other question I had - if the rental agent just tells me, "yes, I want you out cause it's the landlords family member that wants to move in" - how exactly do I know it's REALLY a family member, when it's actually just some friend?

They may state that on the written notice (which I have not yet received), but does the RTB have effective means to examine that more closely?

FakePie

Also, would it be worth my while at this stage writing to the landlord - stating I wish to renew my lease?

I received an e-mail from them on the 18th so - 30 days from the 16th of May - stating their awareness of my wish to renew my lease.

Will that count - save me writing to them?

ted1

Tell the agent that you are staying under part 4. And you’ll to them in 5 years

ross2010

The clock doesnt start ticking until you receive the official written notice. Wait and see what it says. Call RTB to check if you are unsure. They will need to declare their reason. Moving in a friend doesnt qualify. It must be a family member.

Pelvis

I must say, if I had allowed people into my home under those circumstances and they were aware they were doing it under false pretenses, I would royally fuck with them as much as humanly possible. I would be seething.

ted1

There’s no need to renew a lease you are simply allowed to stay under part 4

FakePie

Pelvis wrote: »

I must say, if I had allowed people into my home under those circumstances and they were aware they were doing it under false pretenses, I would royally fuck with them as much as humanly possible. I would be seething.

I agree - but I'm attempting to determine specifically how I may going about doing so.


I just realized I have the tenancy agreement stored electronically so - I do have the landlady's name.

That rental agent and lady that came to view the property - she never mentioned her surname.

Like I mentioned - they've already demonstrated slippery'ness - I would just like to know they can't slip one by me passing off some friend wanting to move in, as being a family member.

Worst comes to worst in an RTB dispute - and she does get the place, I can always get her name via mail in the communal mail room and submit it to the RTB for investigation that way?

FakePie

ross2010 wrote: »

The clock doesnt start ticking until you receive the official written notice. Wait and see what it says. Call RTB to check if you are unsure. They will need to declare their reason. Moving in a friend doesnt qualify. It must be a family member.

That's the pivotal question at this point.

How I know it's actually a family member??

FakePie

And when you say, "family member" - does it have to be immediate family?

Cousin or something will suffice?

Graham

This is what I found last time I looked at the definition of 'family member' for the purposes of the residential tenancies act:

(4) In paragraph 4 of the Table the reference to a member of the landlord's family is a reference to any spouse, child, stepchild, foster child, grandchild, parent, grandparent, step parent, parent-in-law, brother, sister, nephew or niece of the landlord or a person adopted by the landlord under the Adoption Acts 1952 to 1998.

Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/enacted/en/print#sec35

FakePie

It could be one hell of a job proving said person isn't any of them things to the landlord?

Would the RTB go to those lengths in terms of investigation?
Do they have the resources to?

Also - could the rental agents just list a family member as being the one moving in - but ultimately they just move in a non-family member, listing the former as a means to just get me out??

omegab

ted1 wrote: »

Tell the agent that you are staying under part 4. And you’ll to them in 5 years

Exactly this. There is a standard letter you write to state that you are staying under Part IV rights, a Fixed Term lease is not a requirement. Have a google for the sample letter.

FakePie

omegab wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Tell the agent that you are staying under part 4.  And you’ll to them in 5 years

Exactly this. There is a standard letter you write to state that you are staying under Part IV rights, a Fixed Term lease is not a requirement. Have a google for the sample letter.

What was the second part of the initial post?

I assume that was a typo.

I guess just to reiterate - sussing out their shady approach is now my primary concern.

Graham

FakePie wrote: »

It could be one hell of a job proving said person isn't any of them things to the landlord?

I'm not sure if it's ever been used but:

It is against the law for any party or witness to:
- refuse to take an oath/affirmation when asked by the Tribunal
- refuse to produce any document in his/her control required by the Tribunal to be produced
- refuse to answer any question put to them by the Tribunal
- refuse to attend the hearing where the cost of attending has been reimbursed in advance
- knowingly provide materially false or misleading statements or information to the Tribunal
- do any other thing which would amount to contempt of court if the Tribunal were a court.
An offence may be prosecuted by the RTB through the courts and a successful conviction could result in a fine of up to €4,000 or up to 6 months imprisonment or both

FakePie

^^ When you say - "not sure if its ever been used", do you imply..... what exactly?
That it would be ludicrous for a rental agents to present with false information - and it's unheard of that they would do so?

I'm just making sure I have all my i's dotted, and t's crossed.

They've lied verbally to me - already - so they have no issues doing that.

I see no reason why they wouldn't do so again in terms of verbally telling me the intended tenant is a family member to the landlord.

But I'm guessing you guys are of the opinion that, nothing they say verbally, counts - until I get their valid notice in the mail - something like that?

Fian

You don't have to prove that the "friend" is not a family member. The landlord would have to prove that they are. They are obliged to serve you with written notice in the statutory form accompanied by a statutory declaration sworn before a solicitor that they need the appartment for a family member.

You have a 6 year lease under part IV of the REsidential Tenancies Act 2004. (6 years from the date your original lease started). You don't need to sign a new leases, you have a 6 year tenancy which you acquired by operation of the statute. There are limited reasons for which your lease can be terminated during that 6 year period. These are set out in the legislation:

1.The tenant has failed to comply with the obligations of the tenancy (having first been notified, in writing, of the failure, and given an opportunity to remedy it.)
2.The landlord intends to sell the dwelling within the next 3 months
3.The dwelling is no longer suited to the needs of the occupying household
4.The landlord requires the dwelling for own or family member occupation
5.Vacant possession is required for substantial refurbishment of the dwelling
6.The landlord intends to change the use of the dwelling

You have not received a valid notice of termination. You can tell them you intend to remain for the duration of your tenancy under Part IV of the act.

If they try to revise their story and say that the friend is a family member you should open a dispute with teh RTB. The RTB will be skeptical if they change their story to within the statutory termination rights and will require a statutory declaration. You can stay int eh appartment while that dispute is resolved.

The important thing is it is not your job to prove that the proposed new tenant is a family member it will be the landlord's job to satisfy the RTB that is the case.

seamus

Aside from doing nothing until notice is received, I'd be considering making a complaint about the agent to the PSR.

That kind of behaviour you'd expect from landlords, but not from letting agents.

FakePie

seamus wrote: »

Aside from doing nothing until notice is received, I'd be considering making a complaint about the agent to the PSR.

That kind of behaviour you'd expect from landlords, but not from letting agents.

PSR?

Would they act on such a complaint as occurred with myself - such as falsified information as a means to view property with intention to rent from under the current tenant?

I definitely would.

Any more info on this PSR?

Is google my friend here?

Just out of curiosity - what kind of action could they bring?

I recall when the rental agent rang me - she said something about a sale, three months ago, or in three months - but the lady that viewed, appeared to be viewing as a tenant, not a buyer - I inferred via her brief look around.

In addition to that contradicting directly their initial story.

seamus

http://www.psr.ie/website/npsra/npsraweb.nsf/page/index-en

They have authority to regulate lettings agents (among others) and investigate complaints. The complaint doesn't have be specific law-breaking, misconduct of an agent is enough.

The PRTB have the authority to deal with your rental agreement and the details surrounding the eviction. The purpose of the PSR complaint is to draw attention to the poor conduct of the agent in delivering their services to you.

A letting agent should know the correct way to issue a termination notice and should not facilitate any conspiracy on the part of a landlord to illegally terminate a lease. That's what your complaint should be.

Graham

FakePie wrote: »

^^ When you say - "not sure if its ever been used", do you imply..... what exactly?
That it would be ludicrous for a rental agents to present with false information - and it's unheard of that they would do so?

Implying nothing other than I have no idea if anybody has ever been charged with an offence as a result.

Don't infer anything into that though, I haven't looked to see if anyone has ever been charged.

Claw Hammer

If I was in the shoes of the o/p I would start an RTB dispute for disturbance of the right to quiet enjoyment. I wouldn't wait until the expiry of the notice period.

FakePie

seamus wrote: »

http://www.psr.ie/website/npsra/npsraweb.nsf/page/index-en

They have authority to regulate lettings agents (among others) and investigate complaints. The complaint doesn't have be specific law-breaking, misconduct of an agent is enough.

The PRTB have the authority to deal with your rental agreement and the details surrounding the eviction. The purpose of the PSR complaint is to draw attention to the poor conduct of the agent in delivering their services to you.

A letting agent should know the correct way to issue a termination notice and should not facilitate any conspiracy on the part of a landlord to illegally terminate a lease. That's what your complaint should be.

Well - they've shown little compunction in their willingness to - if I may say so - shaft me.

Of course personally I would like nothing more than to make this known to them via investigation by an authorizing body.

Again - just making sure all my bases are covered - could this somehow implicate me further along, say the notice of termination somehow materializes as being valid, and I have to look for another property.

They might, on a personal level - simply say, "you make our life difficult - why we help you?" - and basically, you know - not help me get another place.

From that point of view perhaps it would be favourable to await notice of termination - should there be one - before I touch base with this PSR?

In addition - if I make known to them this conduct - the rental agents would stand to bear - a slap on the wrist, or a genuine penalty?

Again - I'm just weighing how this may or may not be ultimately beneficial for me.

Contemplating the "ifs" - if you will.

FakePie

Claw Hammer wrote: »

If I was in the shoes of the o/p I would start an RTB dispute for disturbance of the right to quiet enjoyment. I wouldn't wait until the expiry of the notice period.

I assume this is a figurative expression?

FakePie

Claw Hammer wrote: »

If I was in the shoes of the o/p I would start an RTB dispute for disturbance of the right to quiet enjoyment. I wouldn't wait until the expiry of the notice period.

I assume this is a figurative expression?

FakePie

Graham wrote: »

FakePie wrote: »

^^ When you say - "not sure if its ever been used", do you imply..... what exactly?
That it would be ludicrous for a rental agents to present with false information - and it's unheard of that they would do so?

Implying nothing other than I have no idea if anybody has ever been charged with an offence as a result.

Don't infer anything into that though, I haven't looked to see if anyone has ever been charged.

I rang Threshold earlier - and they said falsification does occur - but primarily in terms of landlords claiming they are putting the property up for sale - evicting tenants - then re-letting the property.

So according to them it does happen.

As a point to note - when I moved into the place, it was undergoing "substantial refurbishment";

Apparently the last couple to stay there were quite difficult - it's possible they actually went ahead with refurbishment as a means to oust them.

C3PO

I really can see no upside for the OP in making a complaint to the PSR! Exactly what would he/she complain about? The agent would no doubt say that the OP was confused and misunderstood their explanation of the purpose of the visit to the apartment!
In my opinion he should wait for the serving of an official notice to quit and then seek further advice based on what that notice states as the reason for the cessation of the lease!

FakePie

Again just - contemplating the '"ifs"....

In terms of attaining a statutory declaration as to a relative potentially taking the property - would a savvy rental agent or landlord, simply have an actual relative take the apartment, and then after a month or so, simply allow the apartment to change hands to the initially intended person?

My recourse in this regard would be - contact the commissioner of oaths whom signed the statutory declaration, and confirming the identity of the person in question as being that of the person who came to look around my apartment.

Again - a savvy rental agent - I'm sure will have a means to have these bases covered but, I guess just getting you guys perspective on how that might transpire?

FakePie

UPDATE:


I received a "Notice of Termination" this morning.

Basically - what they're saying now is - the landlord intends to sell the dwelling within three months.

Again just - my lack of experience comes into play here but, if an individual intended to buy an apartment, typically would they come in, have a two or three minute look about - without even going out on the balcony, then leave again, and potentially buy on something like that?

In addition to this, I was told in their initial phone call - they were coming to view the property, specifically with a view to renting; so there's obviously conflicting stories.


In any case - there was no statutory declaration of any kind enclosed with the Notice of Termination.

It goes as follows:

FakePie

Letter drawn up on 27th April - received on 30th April:

NOTICE OF TERMINATION - Landlord intends to sell the dwelling

The tenancy of the dwelling xxxxxx, will terminate on 31st May 2018

You must vacate and give up possession of the dwelling on or before the termination date.

The reason for the termination is due to the fact the landlord intends to enter into a binding contract for sale within three months of the termination of the tenancy and to enter into an enforceable agreement for the transfer for full consideration of his or her interest in the premises.

You have the whole of the 24 hours of the termination date to vacate and give up possession of the above dwelling.

Any issue as to the validity of this notice or the right of the landlord to serve it, must be referred to the Residential Tenancies Board under Part 6 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 to 205 within 28 days from the date of receipt of it.

This notice is served on 27th April 2018

Signed: